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[numble]

Yes, no data at all!

That isn't what I said, I don't know why you are replying to me with that. Do you agree with me or not?

 

[netBuff]

Youre right, its not hard to understand. netflix is using sony's content without paying for it.

Not what I said at all.

That isn't what I said, I don't know why you are replying to me with that. Do you agree with me or not?

You claimed Netflix don't share any data on how many people watch the studios' shows. Apparently, studios do get viewer numbers and are likely paid per view with quite a few of their streaming agreements.

 

[Marty Chinn]

They would mention this as it would greatly strengthen their position.

They didn't publicly state this. This is from the Sony leaked e-mails and documents.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

Well it was fun while it lasted.

 

[numble]

Not what I said at all.



You claimed they don't get any data on how many people watch their shows. Apparently, studios do!

I did not claim that. I said they don't know the watch data and it's true. They only know about stream starts and unique users, but not enough to know about how many watches. One person can pause and play a show 10 times and there will be 10 stream starts.

 

[Won]

Things are still working for me for now. Netflix only got here last year, so I guess it was fun while it lasted, if things really go bad. Back into the stone age!

 

[Peagles]

So, streaming aside, I wonder, with this logic am I doing something "illegal" if I import a movie/TV series from overseas that didn't come out here? Nobody is getting paid to distribute it here but I'm using a foreign source to pay for it?

 

[Platy]

Right when I was starting to search for tutorials on how to acess the USA netflix with my Wii U =(

Well ... Hola still works like a charm =P

 

[Quasar]

So, streaming aside, I wonder, with this logic am I doing something "illegal" if I import a movie/TV series from overseas that didn't come out here? Nobody is getting paid to distribute it here but I'm using a foreign source to pay for it?

Some people seem to think so.

Kind of surprised people arent burning gaf down over people buying games on digital stores not in their own country.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Did not know Sony had any involvement in Breaking Bad until tonight.

 

[numble]

Apparently, studios do get viewer numbers and are likely paid per view with quite a few of their streaming agreements.

You know what, you should just read Netflix's SEC filings:
http://ir.netflix.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=1065280-14-6&CIK=1065280

The long-term and fixed cost nature of our content licenses may limit our operating flexibility and could adversely affect our liquidity and results of operation.

In connection with obtaining streaming content, we typically enter into multi-year licenses with studios and other content providers, the payment terms of which are not tied to member usage or the size of our member base (“fixed cost”) but which may be tied to such factors as titles licensed and/or theatrical exhibition receipts. Such commitments are included in the Contractual Obligations section of Item 7 Management's Discussion and Analysis of Financial Condition and Results of Operations. Given the multiple-year duration and largely fixed cost nature of content licenses, if member acquisition and retention do not meet our expectations, our margins may be adversely impacted. Payment terms for streaming licenses, especially programming that is initially available in the applicable territory on our service (“original programming”) or that is considered output content, will typically require more up-front cash payments than other licensing agreements. To the extent member and/or revenue growth do not meet our expectations, our liquidity and results of operations could be adversely affected as a result of content licensing commitments and accelerated payment requirements of certain licenses.

Streaming Content
We license rights to stream TV shows, movies, and original content to members for unlimited viewing. These licenses are for a fixed fee and specify license windows that generally range from six months to five years. Payment terms may extend over the license window, or may require more up-front payments as is typically the case for original content or content that is licensed in an earlier window through an output arrangement.

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

You know what, you should just read Netflix's SEC filings:
http://ir.netflix.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=1065280-14-6&CIK=1065280

Oops.

 

[Ingueferroque]

I hope VPN access never gets banned. Its heaven and I only just saw the light.

 

[gcubed]

You know what, you should just read Netflix's SEC filings:
http://ir.netflix.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=1065280-14-6&CIK=1065280

Yea, like this is going to stop him. Do you have that filing with a picture of Reed Hastings with a shoe on his head holding it?

If not, it proves that they pay per view. Nice try

 

[Marty Chinn]

Oops.

Sure got quiet in here suddenly.

 

[Chezzymann]

I'm constantly amazed at the ways media companies devise new ways of not getting my money. Seriously, I don't care about your corporate slapfight. Give me good service or fuck off.

Its probably legal reasons more than anything

 

[ShogunX]

The harder services like Netflix make it to access their oversees content the more prominent sites like Popcorn Time will become.

 

[Raistlin]

Sony isn't the one to support in this one.

It's Sony that's threatening to take down what we are cherishing. Why does it surprise you that we are angry at Sony?

Well it's fine to be mad at them if you want, but only if you're mad at all the studios since all bitch and whine about this, use it as a negotiation bargaining chip, and at times threaten take downs.

Don't hate the player, hate the game. The real enemy here is the entire industry design that's still living in an era when reels needed to be shipped on a boat. This is the same reason why movies don't hit theaters at the same time, why DVD/BD's don't hit at the same time (or in some cases never hit), etc. The entire industry from studios to theaters to distributors are all complicit.

 

[Dead Man]

Well it's fine to be mad at them if you want, but only if you're mad at all the studios since all bitch and whine about this, use it as a negotiation bargaining chip, and at times threaten take downs.

Don't hate the player, hate the game. The real enemy here is the entire industry design that's still living in an era when reels needed to be shipped on a boat. This is the same reason why movies don't hit theaters at the same time, why DVD/BD's don't hit at the same time (or in some cases never hit), etc. The entire industry from studios to theaters to distributors are all complicit.

And the studios are not interested in changing the game, so yes, I'm mad at them all. I'm also mad at the regional distributors, the regional broadcasters and cable companies (Hi Foxtel, you fucks) and everyone else who seeks to profit from technology and globalisation while insisting everyone else pay them extra for the fucking privilege.

 

[Raistlin]

And the studios are not interested in changing the game, so yes, I'm mad at them all. I'm also mad at the regional distributors, the regional broadcasters and cable companies (Hi Foxtel, you fucks) and everyone else who seeks to profit from technology and globalisation while insisting everyone else pay them extra for the fucking privilege.

That's more like it

 

[Dead Man]

That's more like it

Damn it, now I have an extra d on the end of my futile rant.

 

[Raistlin]

I got you

 

[Dead Man]

I got you

<3

 

[GHG]

Eh so what about people like me who used to live in the UK and then kept my sub going after moving abroad?

Sony please. You're talking out of your arse.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Eh so what about people like me who used to live in the UK and then kept my sub going after moving abroad?

Sony please. You're talking out of your arse.

Explain.

Netflix pays for US distribution rights.

Netflix is complicit to people using other means to access that content outside the US.

Sony is unhappy that Netflix paid for US rights and isn't making enough effort to limit people accessing content that Netflix isn't authorized nor paying Sony to use outside of the US.

Sony is wrong?

 

[GK86]

Explain.

Netflix pays for US distribution rights.

Netflix is complicit to people using other means to access that content outside the US.

Sony is unhappy that Netflix paid for US rights and isn't making enough effort to limit people accessing content that Netflix isn't authorized nor paying Sony to use outside of the US.

Sony is wrong?

Yes, we get it, Sony should get paid.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Yes, we get it, Sony should get paid.

Do we get it? A lot of people are pointing the finger at Sony and not Netflix still.

 

[Heigic]

Why is everyone getting mad at Sony?

When you pay your $10 to netflix, part of that is used to pay the studios for licensing their IP. Netflix negotiated a deal for the US region. So if you live outside of the US, netflix keeps all your subscription and doesnt pay the studios. Netflix is the one that is acting in bad faith here.

I'm just annoyed region locking still exists. Makes no sense with the internet and only encourages piracy.

 

[Quasar]

I'm just annoyed region locking still exists. Makes no sense with the internet and only encourages piracy.

Yeah. The regional nature of digital content I abhor. Needs to die.

 

[GK86]

Do we get it? A lot of people are pointing the finger at Sony and not Netflix still.

Nope, but you seem to be making it your personal mission to make sure Sony's name isn't dragged through the mud.

Yes, Sony has the right to ask for compensation for their content and/or voice displeasure for Netflix's unwillingness to try and stop VPNers. Yes, Netflix is paying for only the regions they have licensed out the content for. Yes, Netflix benefits from this. Yes, Sony doesn't see a dime.

VPNers, who see no problem in what they are doing, have the right to be mad at Sony (or any other company that request action) for trying to take away a service that brings them joy. Especially since it looks like Netflix might actually start to take action against VPNers.

This is going to be one of those topics where neither side will agree with the other, no matter what the other side has to say. The last few pages have gone around in circles, and I doubt that will change anytime soon.

 

[GHG]

Explain.

Netflix pays for US distribution rights.

Netflix is complicit to people using other means to access that content outside the US.

Sony is unhappy that Netflix paid for US rights and isn't making enough effort to limit people accessing content that Netflix isn't authorized nor paying Sony to use outside of the US.

Sony is wrong?

Sony still gets paid don't they?

The alternative is that they block users who may have similar circumstances to myself from accessing the content they are paying for. They will then end up with a lot of cancelled subs.

Sony is wrong because what UK/US expatriates like myself are doing is not piracy. We are still paying for and accessing the same content, it doesn't matter where you are in the world.

Speaking of "piracy"... If they want to see real piracy then they should make Netflix block VPN users. Then they would just complain about the sudden surge of users downloading their content via torrents.

 

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

Did not know Sony had any involvement in Breaking Bad until tonight.

None of their logos showed up in the version you watched?

 

[Marty Chinn]

Sony still gets paid don't they?

The alternative is that they block users who may have similar circumstances to myself from accessing the content they are paying for. They will then end up with a lot of cancelled subs.

Sony is wrong because what UK/US expatriates like myself are doing is not piracy. We are still paying for and accessing the same content, it doesn't matter where you are in the world.

Speaking of "piracy"... If they want to see real piracy then they should make Netflix block VPN users. Then they would just complain about the sudden surge of users downloading their content via torrents.

Sony does not get paid. Netflix does, and reaps the benefits while Sony doesn't. That's the core issue.

 

[jax]

The content on Netflix is 90% garbage anyway. I'm surprised this is even an issue?

 

[Quasar]

The content on Netflix is 90% garbage anyway. I'm surprised this is even an issue?

Have to admit I kind of wonder why I keep a sub. Mostly for the rainy day situation rather than to get any use of it.

 

[Xpike]

And when Netflix does something about it, they'll see their sub rate decline

Is using a VPN to use a service you pay for any different from buying a movie in another country to play in your home? Legally speaking yes, but it's the same thing if you look at it.

 

[Montresor]

Sony does not get paid. Netflix does, and reaps the benefits while Sony doesn't. That's the core issue.

The core of the issue is the ludicrous idea that there should be an additional fee negotiated between Sony and Netflix for regions outside the US. They should've agreed from the beginning on some flat worldwide fee. Who's fault is that? Netflix? Sony? Either way, these companies should not be entitled to deprive people from outside the USA from this content. This is a global world with international customers and there is no technological reason the whole world can't stream from the same pool of content. Sony only negotiated for US rights. Well too god damn bad bruv. The rest of the world consists of legitimate Netflix customers paying monthly fees out of their hard earned salary and they WILL watch Netflix content, including Breaking Bad, whether Sony likes it or not.

 

[Mechanized]

Batman: TAS is only on the Canadian Netflix. Every region has something worth checking out. Scandinavian countries seem to get big Hollywood movies a bit quicker than the US.

I had no interest in Netflix until the very moment I read this. From the moment it was launched there were reports of Canadian Netflix being gimped, maybe its worth checking out now.

 

[Complex Shadow]

w/e guess i had good run. as soon as i get blocked ill just unsub. not gonna go back to cable though. Canadian cable companies can fuck off.

edit:

I had no interest in Netflix until the very moment I read this. From the moment it was launched there were reports of Canadian Netflix being gimped, maybe its worth checking out now.

i think canadian content is sometimes newer. i know for sure that US netflix only has season 1 of rectify while canada has 2 (which is shame, its such a good show.)

 

[dakun]

Sony still gets paid don't they?

The alternative is that they block users who may have similar circumstances to myself from accessing the content they are paying for. They will then end up with a lot of cancelled subs.

Sony is wrong because what UK/US expatriates like myself are doing is not piracy. We are still paying for and accessing the same content, it doesn't matter where you are in the world.

Speaking of "piracy"... If they want to see real piracy then they should make Netflix block VPN users. Then they would just complain about the sudden surge of users downloading their content via torrents.

is it so hard to understand that Sony cares about being payed? (that goes for anyone who doesn't understand Sony's point) They don't care if you pay Netflix if they don't get the cut from it they deserve.

As far as they are concerned it's piracy because either way they are not getting payed one dime.

The responsibility here 100% lies with Netflix. period.

You can complain all you want how there is no alternative in your country, and yes that should be resolved by Sony. But in this particular case of Sony not getting paid for access from other countries in a subscription service that pays the content creator by region it's not that difficult to understand Netflix is doing something wrong. Or maybe Sony is by even letting them continue stream their shit. Just stop giving them your movies and resolve it that way.

 

[Marty Chinn]

And when Netflix does something about it, they'll see their sub rate decline

Is using a VPN to use a service you pay for any different from buying a movie in another country to play in your home? Legally speaking yes, but it's the same thing if you look at it.

Yes, it's totally different.

Buying a DVD:

Person in country A buys a movie. Movie studio gets money
Person in country B buys movie from country A. Movie studio gets money

Streaming:

Person in country A streams a movie where it is licensed to. Movie studio gets money
Person in country B streams a movie from country A where it's not licensed. Movie studio doesn't get money.

 

[Shantom]

The content on Netflix is 90% garbage anyway. I'm surprised this is even an issue?

I watched The Lego Movie last night and The Grand Budapest Hotel tonight. There's plenty of good stuff.

 

[GK86]

I had no interest in Netflix until the very moment I read this. From the moment it was launched there were reports of Canadian Netflix being gimped, maybe its worth checking out now.

If you don't have a VPN, you are missing out. So much good stuff out there. Netflix Mexico just got Boy Meets World the other week. And Jurassic Park two days ago. It is heaven going between regions.

 

[Complex Shadow]

If you don't have a VPN, you are missing out. So much good stuff out there. Netflix Mexico just got Boy Meets World the other week. And Jurassic Park two days ago. It is heaven going between regions.

just emphasis how dumb region locking is.

 

[Marty Chinn]

The core of the issue is the ludicrous idea that there should be an additional fee negotiated between Sony and Netflix for regions outside the US. They should've agreed from the beginning on some flat worldwide fee. Who's fault is that? Netflix? Sony? Either way, these companies should not be entitled to deprive people from outside the USA from this content. This is a global world with international customers and there is no technological reason the whole world can't stream from the same pool of content. Sony only negotiated for US rights. Well too god damn bad bruv. The rest of the world consists of legitimate Netflix customers paying monthly fees out of their hard earned salary and they WILL watch Netflix content, including Breaking Bad, whether Sony likes it or not.

That's some entitlement you have there...

Why isn't it Netflix's fault for not setting up business in the respective countries and bringing the content there if there's such a demand? There's a number of reasons why distribution rights vary between region.

 

[GHG]

Sony does not get paid. Netflix does, and reaps the benefits while Sony doesn't. That's the core issue.

Sony get paid upfront for the licence.

I am still only one person regardless of whether I live in the UK (my home country) or elsewhere. I don't suddenly split into 2 people and they don't then get an additional subscription from me the moment I move abroad. Netflix are not gaining anything from me or others in my scenario.

The core issue here is that Sony are choosing to label paying subscribers who don't happen to live in the UK or US as pirates. Them having that kind of mindset sums up why they are not positioned to profit further from this kind of situation.

 

[jax]

Maybe if the studios were less greedy with what they put on Netflix, people wouldn't have to use a VPN. Isn't this obvious?

I feel like these studios hate money or something.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Sony get paid upfront for the licence.

I am still only one person regardless of whether I live in the UK (my home country) or elsewhere. I don't split into 2 people and they don't suddenly get an additional subscription from me the moment I move abroad. Netflix are not gaining anything from me or others in my scenario.

The core issue here is that Sony are choosing to label paying subscribers who don't happen to live in the UK or US as pirates. Them having that kind of mindset sums up why they are not positioned to profit further from this kind of situation.

Sony gets paid a flat rate by Netflix that has been calculated and agreed upon as a reasonable fee to 350 million people. They did not negotiate a fee based on 7 billion people. Sony is not getting paid while Netflix is. You'd have a point if Netflix paid Sony per user or per view, but that's not what the terms are.

Here's another way to look at it. If I buy a movie, am I allowed to make copies of it and distribute it to my friends? Why is Netflix allowed to distribute it to people they're not authorized to?

 

[Xpike]

Streaming:

Person in country A streams a movie where it is licensed to. Movie studio gets money
Person in country B streams a movie from country A where it's not licensed. Movie studio doesn't get money.

What? Hm, how does Netflix pay the studios anyway? I assumed they just took a cut fomr the subscription.
If Netflix and Hollywood were smart they'd just enabled this as an "official" function for some more bucks

 

[Marty Chinn]

What? Hm, how does Netflix pay the studios anyway? I assumed they just took a cut fomr the subscription.
If Netflix and Hollywood were smart they'd just enabled this as an "official" function for some more bucks

Netflix pays Sony a flat rate that is negotiated based on the size of the US market. They do not get a cut of the subscription. They do not get paid per user. They do not get paid per view. They negotiated for US region only at a flat rate.