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[ZhugeEX]

Hey, did you ever get quarterly numbers? I don't have them all...

Quarterly     12/31/94     03/31/95     06/30/95     09/30/95     12/31/95     03/31/96     06/30/96     09/30/96     12/31/96     03/31/97
PS1                             0.5                                                 0.9          1.7          3.0          2.6          1.9

Here are more LTD figures:
12/31/95: 3.4 million
03/31/96: 4.3 million (you have this)
06/30/96: 6.0 million
09/30/96: 9.0 million
12/31/96: 11.6 million

These are culled from Lexis-Nexis press releases and news articles from those years.

Thank you so much JVM. This is just what I was looking for. The 0.5m you have for Q4 FY1994-95, according to Sony they shipped 0.3m the quarter prior. So that would mean 0.8m in FY1994/95 and not 0.85m? Need to do some more digging on my end here to see where that difference has come from.

I've noticed a slight issue for FY1997-98 where Sony reported 19.37m production shipments and used this number as the definitive number for the year, however another number claims 19.32m for the year.

I know it's a 50k difference but it's the difference between 102.49m or 102.54m LTD. Sony seem to be reporting 102.49m despite back in 2005 using 102.54m in their visual graph representations.

 

[Melchiah]

I live in the US and I grew up on Vectrex/C64/C128/Amiga. I always thought the NES and SNES were absolute shit compared to what I was able to play on my Amiga.

Bought and paid for the C128 and Amiga myself so it made it so much better. It's a shame that so many people grew up without knowing the greatness of the Amiga.

I still have yet to own or be interested in anything that Nintendo creates. Most of the games have sounds or aesthetics that just turn me off. Even their OSes for their devices are ridiculous looking (at least those I've seen).

Same here. I've never owned a Nintendo system, and probably never will. The lack of big multiplatform games and horror/sci-fi, and the themes and aesthetics of their own games are just completely uninteresting for me. Parring few exceptions, like Metroid.

 

[SerTapTap]

Xbox Home Console Shipments = 122.8 million
Nintendo Home Console Shipments = 275 million
Sony Home Console Shipments = 370 million

*Numbers are rounded

Shit, didn't realize PS that was so far ahead, great numbers.

 

[JordanN]

I worry more about PS Vita successor than PS5 actually.

I really hope Sony doesn't.

When I look back, the PS Vita has actually held back what Sony wanted to do with PS4. All those games they spent money on (i.e Wipeout 2048, Uncharted: GA, Gravity Rush) only to go nowhere now that Vita failed, they could have easily been made into PS4 launch titles.

If Sony makes another handheld, they're just going to spread themselves more thin for what? They're not serious about handhelds. Put their priority back on home consoles where they've almost never lost before.

 

[Circinus]

I really hope Sony doesn't.

When I look back, the PS Vita has actually held back what Sony wanted to do with PS4. All those games they spent money on (i.e Wipeout 2048, Uncharted: GA, Gravity Rush) only to go nowhere now that Vita failed, they could have easily been made into PS4 launch titles.

If Sony makes another handheld, they're just going to spread themselves more thin for what? They're not serious about handhelds. Put their priority back on home consoles where they've almost never lost before.

Just because it isn't a huge commercial success, doesn't mean that it doesn't have its audience. It has probably satisfied millions of consumers.

The PS Vita turned out to be much better and much more appealing than the PS4. In terms of quality, the PS Vita definitely trumps to PS4.

Hype and popularity doesn't tell the whole story.


With PSP and PS Vita SCE has definitely proven that they do a fantastic job with handhelds; a much better job than with consoles if we're going by the PS4.


You're severely contradicting yourself as well, you point that they made these launch (or launch window) games - Wipeout 2048, Uncharted Golden Abyss, Gravity Rush - and therefore invested money into it, only to claim they aren't serious about it?

The PS Vita didn't fail. The PS Vita turned out to be the most amazing handheld entertainment system ever. The PS4? Not even good value for the hardware it offers and the catalogue of games is limited in terms of size compared to the expansive catalogue of games of PC. The PS Vita? There they actually managed to implement a good way to preserve digital games from PSP / PS1, making it catalogue of games playable on the PS Vita much larger than with PS4.

Of course I'm looking at it from a consumer point of view. The story could be reversed from a business point of view, but being a consumer, I view it from a consumer point of view.

 

[JordanN]

Just because it isn't a huge commercial success, doesn't mean that it doesn't have its audience. It has probably satisfied millions of consumers.

The PS Vita turned out to be much better and much more appealing than the PS4. In terms of quality, the PS Vita is definitely the much more desireable device.

You're free to believe all that. But I'm looking at the opportunity cost.

How does Sony keeping handhelds actually benefit them instead of just being a fanservice gesture? It hasn't. The fact they stopped making games for it is proof they don't see the value in it.

This creates a problem where they just spend millions of dollars only to half support a device, whereas they have another platform (PS4) that it's obvious it will be supported throughout its life.

Liked I added to my previous post, I'm looking at it from a consumer point of view. SCE's business point of view is their matter.

Well I'm a consumer and I still see the handheld support as being a problem. PS4 is more likely to outlive Vita, so why deprive it of the resources when it deserves it most?

I think half-baked support benefits no one since those who do own a Vita aren't likely to buy another one because they'll remember how the first handheld was treated. This is all just money being flushed away when it could be used to make games elsewhere.

 

[Circinus]

You're free to believe all that. But I'm looking at the opportunity cost.

How does Sony keeping handhelds actually benefit them instead of just being a fanservice gesture? It hasn't. The fact they stopped making games for it is proof they don't see the value in it.

This creates a problem where they just spend millions of dollars only to half support a device, whereas they have another platform (PS4) that it's obvious it will be supported throughout its life.

Liked I added to my previous post, I'm looking at it from a consumer point of view. SCE's business point of view is their matter.

Even if they stop making games for the PS Vita, it is still a much better system than the PS4.

It will take a long time before the PS4 will be able to catch up the PS Vita in terms having an as expansive catalogue of games as PS Vita. When you look at all the PS Vita, PSP, PS1 games playable on PS Vita, the catalogue of games is quite large.

Unfortunately PS4 isn't backwards compatible with PS3 games.

 

[mclem]

That seems like a weird number to celebrate.

 

[Circinus]

Just because it isn't a huge commercial success, doesn't mean that it doesn't have its audience. It has probably satisfied millions of consumers.

The PS Vita turned out to be much better and much more appealing than the PS4. In terms of quality, the PS Vita definitely trumps to PS4.

Hype and popularity doesn't tell the whole story.


With PSP and PS Vita SCE has definitely proven that they do a fantastic job with handhelds; a much better job than with consoles if we're going by the PS4.


You're severely contradicting yourself as well, you point that they made these launch (or launch window) games - Wipeout 2048, Uncharted Golden Abyss, Gravity Rush - and therefore invested money into it, only to claim they aren't serious about it?

The PS Vita didn't fail. The PS Vita turned out to be the most amazing handheld entertainment system ever. The PS4? Not even good value for the hardware it offers and the catalogue of games is limited in terms of size compared to the expansive catalogue of games of PC. The PS Vita? There they actually managed to implement a good way to preserve digital games from PSP / PS1, making it catalogue of games playable on the PS Vita much larger than with PS4.

Of course I'm looking at it from a consumer point of view. The story could be reversed from a business point of view, but being a consumer, I view it from a consumer point of view.

Not to mention, PS Vita has:

– Backwards compatibility with digital PSP/PS1 games, your digital licenses can carry over; no need to buy "remasters". Unlike PS4.

– PS1 Classics compatibility. Unlike PS4.

– A sleek, snappy and customizeable interface. Unlike PS4.

– Great first-party games with great, innovative gameplay (e.g. Tearaway, Gravity Rush). Unlike PS4.

– Plays music, video and photo media files. Unlike PS4.

– Portability. Unlike PS4.

– Friends notifications. Unlike PS4.

– Free online multiplayer. Unlike PS4.

– A messaging system that works. Unlike PS4.

– DLNA support (Network Media Player app). Unlike PS4.

– Well-organized PSN Store. Unlike PS4.


They definitely did a much better job with the PS Vita. Like I said, hype and popularity doesn't always tell the whole story.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

400 million by the end of this year?

 

[Circinus]

You're free to believe all that. But I'm looking at the opportunity cost.

How does Sony keeping handhelds actually benefit them instead of just being a fanservice gesture? It hasn't. The fact they stopped making games for it is proof they don't see the value in it.

This creates a problem where they just spend millions of dollars only to half support a device, whereas they have another platform (PS4) that it's obvious it will be supported throughout its life.


Well I'm a consumer and I still see the handheld support as being a problem. PS4 is more likely to outlive Vita, so why deprive it of the resources when it deserves it most?

Why does the PS4 deserve the resources, the most? You're again talking about it from a business point of view in my humble opinion.

Not to mention, PS4 is getting all the resources anyway.

But I'd say SCE has enough resources to provide a good amount of first-party content for all its platforms. You can see that in 2011, 2012, 2013 especially where their output as a whole was quite big, but divided across PSP, PS Vita, PS3, PS Move, PS4.

They would never put all their output across all those platforms there on just one platform, because that would create tremendous overhead. And there's no consumer demand for oversaturation like that.

 

[JordanN]

Why does the PS4 deserve the resources, the most? You're again talking about it from a business point of view in my humble opinion.

Not to mention, PS4 is getting all the resources anyway.

But I'd say SCE has enough resources to provide a good amount of first-party content for all its platforms. You can see that in 2011, 2012, 2013 especially where their output as a whole was quite big, but divided across PSP, PS Vita, PS3, PS Move, PS4.

They would never put all their output across all those platforms there on just one platform, because that would create tremendous overhead. And there's no consumer demand for oversaturation like that.

There have been games on PS4 that either got cancelled or delayed. This is exactly why I think the resources that were used on Vita, should have been saved/diverted to PS4 instead.

They could have had extra games ready either to help pad things out or be used in an emergency. And PS4 deserves the resources because it has none of the woes Vita has brought to Sony.
Home consoles are more successful, third party support is greater, there are no questions about its future.

Not to mention, PS4 is getting all the resources anyway.

But only after the fact. What happens next time if they make another handheld? It's going to be the same story of only half-propping up a device and letting its games go to waste there.

 

[ZhugeEX]

400 million by the end of this year?

Nope. Just under.

 

[Circinus]

There have been games on PS4 that either got cancelled or got delayed. This is exactly why I think the resources that were used on Vita, should have been saved/diverted to PS4 instead.

They could have had extra games ready either to help pad things out or be used in an emergency.

But then the PS Vita would have lost those games.

So I don't see how that changes anything. If you have a PS Vita and PlayStation console, you still get the same amount of games.

But only after the fact. What happens next time if they make another handheld? It's going to be the same story of only half-propping up a device and letting its games go to waste there.

Games are being wasted when they aren't on hyper-popular mass-market devices?

The PS Vita isn't half-propped at all, it's objectively better than PS4 in multiple like I've explained in my previous post.

Don't let yourself be prone to using the argumentum ad populum fallacy.

 

[Circinus]

But only after the fact. What happens next time if they make another handheld? It's going to be the same story of only half-propping up a device and letting its games go to waste there.

And the chance is relatively small that they'll make a handheld successor in the vein of PS Vita.

Like I said in a previous post in another thread, I'm hoping for an Xperia/PlayStation hybrid device as spiritual PS Vita successor:

Maybe an Xperia + PlayStation branded handset that will replace PlayStation handhelds? I think the mobile gaming market has grown enough significantly the Xperia Play that in the present-day of 2015, there would likely be a sizeable audience for a smartphone tailored for games that such a device could be a moderate success. Likely more so than another PlayStation handheld in the vein of PSP and PS Vita. Because even among enthusiast, 'core' gamers I think there's much more interest in mobile gaming.

It would be great to have such a device that ideally could emulate PSP, PS Vita, PS1 games with an officially supported emulator. And it would have PS Now, PS4 Remote Play, Google Play (so Nintendo games as well! Assuming Nintendo will distribute their mobile games through the Play Store on Android of course).

 

[Circinus]

A possible idea would be that they'd develop an emulator that makes all their handheld games compatible with their home console so you could still play those handheld "resources" on home console.

So next-gen PlayStation portable compatible with PS5. But PS5 has native PS5 games that obviously don't run on the next-gen PlayStation portable.

 

[protomouse]

It shows just how bad their hardware strategy has been across all platforms. The PS2 almost wipes out all of Nintendos lifetime platforms (excluding the Wii) sales being just shy 25 million.

Nintendo's strategies have kept them consistently profitable and in the hardware business for 40 years. Being a much smaller company whose sole business is video games, they are far more sensitive to market fluctuations than the Sony conglomerate. Comparisons to Sony are a bit dumbfounded, seeing how the company can and will eat the games division's enormous losses for the "greater good". PlayStation is a trojan horse for many other Sony products (music, movies, mobile phones, their recently deceased TV line, and of course their "formats" like Blu-Ray). None of these circumstances apply to Nintendo. As much as the "war chest" gets touted around, fact remains that Nintendo is a small fish in a big pond with two companies that they cannot possibly play the spending game with. Thus, I think they need to approach their business a bit differently.

the only problem with ps3 was the price started at 599 lol
people obviouslyo love the playstation brand. ps1,ps2 and ps4 are king. ps3 not getting first place was just a fluke caused by ken kutaragis crazy ideas

The PS3 had far more issues than just MSRP. It was a nightmare for third parties, with poor documentation and tools. Sony weren't particularly accomodating, either. This ultimately hurt the console's initial library and value proposition. I think a lower initial asking price would have helped Sony stay competitive early on, but they clearly had a lot of other issues and were facing strong competition.

 

[Bold One]

Not to mention, PS Vita has:


– DLNA support (Network Media Player app). Unlike PS4.

 

[Circinus]

Seems pretty clear to me. You can download the network media player app from the PS Store on PS Vita.

 

[Bold One]

I had no idea, will dl

 

[EdReedFan20]

You do it through the content manager icon. It allows you to stream music from your PC to your Vita. I've only ever used it for music, so I don't know if you can do photos or videos.

 

[Massa]

Seems pretty clear to me. You can download the network media player app from the PS Store on PS Vita.

I had no idea, will dl

Not out in North America I'm afraid.

 

[AngryNapkin]

Nintendo's strategies have kept them consistently profitable and in the hardware business for 40 years. Being a much smaller company whose sole business is video games, they are far more sensitive to market fluctuations than the Sony conglomerate. Comparisons to Sony are a bit dumbfounded, seeing how the company can and will eat the games division's enormous losses for the "greater good". PlayStation is a trojan horse for many other Sony products (music, movies, mobile phones, their recently deceased TV line, and of course their "formats" like Blu-Ray). None of these circumstances apply to Nintendo. As much as the "war chest" gets touted around, fact remains that Nintendo is a small fish in a big pond with two companies that they cannot possibly play the spending game with. Thus, I think they need to approach their business a bit differently.

I'm not sure you understand my ultimate point, how are they supposed to remain in the console business if they continue to lose market share every generation? They are finally profitable again and have a large cash reserve no doubt, but if their next platform sells less than their predesscesor, and again the following time your ultimately talking about less than 10 million, then 6 million and so on.

Most everyone here reasonably suggests that they can't compete with the other two on;

Online
Power
Third parties

That leaves them with gimmicks and relying on he casual market of which again everyone reasonably believes doesn't exist.

I just have a hard time seeing any path forward for their home consoles that doesn't look bad. The Wii gave them a huge buffer to work from but in my opinion it ultimately hurt them because it gave them a false sense of the market.

The Wii drop off surely should have suggested to them it couldn't be reproduced with the Wii U where tablets had already broken into te market very successfully.

 

[ZhugeEX]

Some may be interested in software numbers.

Total number of software sales to retail (Inc digital for PS4)

PS4 software - >100 million units
PS3 software - >900 million units
PS2 software - ~1545 million units
PS1 software - ~962 million units

Numbers are estimated.

 

[The Artisan]

ZhugeEx, would you happen to also have the LTD numbers of the 360?

 

[anexanhume]

Some may be interested in software numbers.

Total number of software sales to retail (Inc digital for PS4)

PS4 software - >100 million units
PS3 software - >900 million units
PS2 software - ~1545 million units
PS1 software - ~962 million units

Numbers are estimated.

Do you happen to have 18 month numbers for others to match PS4's life?

 

[Bittercup]

Yes, Sony released a Network Media Player app for Vita October last year. I don't think they have released it outside of the SCEE region (Europe/Australia etc) though.
But I can't get anything to work with it and still use Plex via Vita browser instead.

 

[ugh_the_boot]

I've owned every Playstation system since they launched except the PS Vita (not into handhelds anymore) and I have to say if I had to stick with only 1 company for gaming from here on....the choice would EASILY be Sony.

I've always loved their hardware....it strikes a great balance between quality and affordability and the gaming platforms are no different. Good on Sony, they have always done right by me and the only one of their hardware systems I have ever had to replace (in or out of warranty) and that was the Ps2 phat which unfortunately was out of warranty but it had a pretty good run (it died half way through San Andreas so however long that took to come out since the Ps2 launched which I think was a fair amount of years). So out of all their headphones, tvs, mini-disc players, walkmans, mobile phones etc (approx 50 Sony products bought in my whole lifetime) only one failed....that is an awesome record, especially seeing as the one that did fail had gotten years and years of continous use (by me and my room mates).

 

[kyser73]

I live in the US and I grew up on Vectrex/C64/C128/Amiga. I always thought the NES and SNES were absolute shit compared to what I was able to play on my Amiga.

Bought and paid for the C128 and Amiga myself so it made it so much better. It's a shame that so many people grew up without knowing the greatness of the Amiga.

I still have yet to own or be interested in anything that Nintendo creates. Most of the games have sounds or aesthetics that just turn me off. Even their OSes for their devices are ridiculous looking (at least those I've seen).

Agreed - I grew up in the UK, so went ZX81 > Spectrum > C64 > Amiga > Megadrive/Genesis > PS1/2/3/4.

I had a brief flirtation with the N64 for about 6 months but got rid as the carts were about double the cost of a PS1 CD-Rom.

 

[TGO]

It's amazing how nearly half of Nintendos LT home consoles the PS2 did on it's own.
Mindblowing.
Nintendo definitely owns the handheld space but Sony has pretty much dominated the home console market since their arrival in 1994.

 

[stryke]

Do you happen to have 18 month numbers for others to match PS4's life?

Road made this graph last year (I don't know if he's made a new one)

Just imagine there's a 20.2 million plot point on day 472.

 

[ZhugeEX]

ZhugeEx, would you happen to also have the LTD numbers of the 360?

Hardware or software?

Do you happen to have 18 month numbers for others to match PS4's life?

Give me some time, bit busy at the moment but will get back to you either tonight or tomorrow.

 

[The Artisan]

Hardware or software?

hardware. software would be cool but it's hardware i really care about.

 

[anexanhume]

Road made this graph last year (I don't know if he's made a new one)

Just imagine there's a 20.2 million plot point on day 472.

Thank you, but I was actually asking about software, as I'm curious about attach rate momentum comparatively.

Give me some time, bit busy at the moment but will get back to you either tonight or tomorrow.

Take your time, it's not like you get paid for it. Really appreciate you taking the time.

 

[ZhugeEX]

hardware. software would be cool but it's hardware i really care about.

Hardware at last count is 83.7m.

When MS started to combine numbers we can only estimate that the total will be around oe between 87.3m-88.3m as of December 31st 2014.

 

[The Artisan]

Hardware at last count is 83.7m.

When MS started to combine numbers we can only estimate that the total will be around oe between 87.3m-88.3m as of December 31st 2014.

damn, that makes it pretty close to 90m. pretty impressive.

 

[Mass Effect]

Some may be interested in software numbers.

Total number of software sales to retail (Inc digital for PS4)

PS4 software - >100 million units
PS3 software - >900 million units
PS2 software - ~1545 million units
PS1 software - ~962 million units

Numbers are estimated.

With the exception of the PS4 that's about an average of ten games per console. That's amazing.

Hardware or software?

Could we get software too?

 

[Slangblade]

So based on ZhugeEX's data Sony has dominanted the console business and it not even close.

 

[ZhugeEX]

Take your time, it's not like you get paid for it. Really appreciate you taking the time.

Thanks. I had a bit of time so here is what you asked for. If you want me to be more specific or change the parameters then let me know.

Packaged software sales for PlayStation consoles (PS4 includes digital sales)
PS4 (14 months) - 81.8 million software sales*
PS3 (14 months) - 51.4 million software sales**
PS2 (15 months) - 49.8 million software sales***
PS1 (28 months) - 98.0 million software sales****

*PS4 cumulative hardware shipments were 19.9 million
**PS3 cumulative hardware shipments were 10.5 million
***PS2 first 7 months were Japan only, total cumulative hardware shipments were 14.95 million (Japan = 40%)
****PS1 software sales not available for under first 28 months, total cumulative hardware shipments were 13.5 million after 28 months.

Please note that packaged software for PS1 and PS2 is counted as a sale when the software disc is produced in factory and sold to Sony distributors, for PS3 the sale is counted when the software disc is sold to retailers by Sony, for PS4 the sale is counted when the software disc is sold through to the end user.

damn, that makes it pretty close to 90m. pretty impressive.

Yup. PS3 has done well to outsell 360 with 1 year less on the market but the 360 has done exceptionally well to sell what it has and is pretty much still neck and neck with the PS3 (That's due to the one year head start).

With the exception of the PS4 that's about an average of ten games per console. That's amazing.

Could we get software too?

Software for X360 is impossible to track. It's certainly higher than PS3 based on historical data points but how much higher is unknown.

 

[anexanhume]

Thanks. I had a bit of time so here is what you asked for. If you want me to be more specific or change the parameters then let me know.

Packaged software sales for PlayStation consoles (PS4 includes digital sales)
PS4 (14 months) - 81.8 million software sales*
PS3 (14 months) - 51.4 million software sales**
PS2 (15 months) - 49.8 million software sales***
PS1 (28 months) - 98.0 million software sales****

*PS4 cumulative hardware shipments were 19.9 million
**PS3 cumulative hardware shipments were 10.5 million
***PS2 first 7 months were Japan only, total cumulative hardware shipments were 14.95 million (Japan = 40%)
****PS1 software sales not available for under first 28 months, total cumulative hardware shipments were 13.5 million after 28 months.

Please note that packaged software for PS1 and PS2 is counted as a sale when the software disc is produced in factory and sold to Sony distributors, for PS3 the sale is counted when the software disc is sold to retailers by Sony, for PS4 the sale is counted when the software disc is sold through to the end user.



Yup. PS3 has done well to outsell 360 with 1 year less on the market but the 360 has done exceptionally well to sell what it has and is pretty much still neck and neck with the PS3 (That's due to the one year head start).



Software for X360 is impossible to track. It's certainly higher than PS3 based on historical data points but how much higher is unknown.

Thanks!

So it looks like PS4 is 4.11 attach rate.
PS3 is 4.90.

However, PS4 is sold to consumer, not to store, and digital plays a much more prominent role in PS4 ecosystem. The PS4 attach rate may be slightly less overall, but that seems to correlate with what we've seen on PS4 vs. XB1. Less sales = higher attach rate.

 

[ZhugeEX]

Thanks!

So it looks like PS4 is 4.11 attach rate.
PS3 is 4.90.

However, PS4 is sold to consumer, not to store, and digital plays a much more prominent role in PS4 ecosystem. The PS4 attach rate may be slightly less overall, but that seems to correlate with what we've seen on PS4 vs. XB1. Less sales = higher attach rate.

Well actually you make a good point. PS3 is sold to retail and I've included shipped to retail number for hardware.

PS4 is sold to consumer yet I still included shipped to retail for hardware. If we take sold to consumer for hardware the total is 18.5m which means the actual attach rate is around 4.42.

At the same point in time the PS3 sold in attach rate was 4.90 and for PS2 it was 3.33.

 

[stryke]

Thank you, but I was actually asking about software, as I'm curious about attach rate momentum comparatively.

lol I guess that's what happens when I post past 1AM.

 

[Mass Effect]

Software for X360 is impossible to track. It's certainly higher than PS3 based on historical data points but how much higher is unknown.

That's unfortunate. Thanks for the hardware estimates though.

 

[Shadoken]

Nintendos huge headstart doesnt really matter when the home console gaming audience back in the 80s was much smaller.
The NES dominated had a much bigger lifespan compared to the PS1 but it still couldn't top it saleswise.


Ditto for people saying MS has a better sales/year stat , they joined in after home console gaming had a huge audience.

 

[Neff]

It shows just how bad their hardware strategy has been across all platforms. The PS2 almost wipes out all of Nintendos lifetime platforms (excluding the Wii) sales being just shy 25 million.

One console achieved that type of success in 6-7 years what it took Nintendo around 2 decades and 5 consoles to do.

It's not a slam against the Wii by any stretch, it's more an argument for Nintendos failed approach to the market.

Depends how you define success and failure. If you define them by pure sales and install bases, then yeah, Sony beasted, albeit via a risky loss-leading model. If you're talking about profits, Nintendo was ahead every step of the way, at points several times more.

 

[Melchiah]

Depends how you define success and failure. If you define them by pure sales and install bases, then yeah, Sony beasted, albeit via a risky loss-leading model. If you're talking about profits, Nintendo was ahead every step of the way, at points several times more.

Ahead in profits with the home systems, without handhelds take into the equation?

 

[Neff]

Ahead in profits with the home systems, without handhelds take into the equation?

It's difficult to say. My point is that it's incorrect to label Nintendo's business decisions over the last 10-15 years as a failure when it's very much worked in their favour (including consoles), and moreso to stack it unfavourably against Sony's method, which has seen them making a fraction of Nintendo's profit, not to mention suffering staggering losses with PS3.

Sony comes out top with sales and consumers, but business-wise it's a different story.

 

[M°°nblade]

It's difficult to say. My point is that it's incorrect to label Nintendo's business decisions over the last 10-15 years as a failure when it's very much worked in their favour (including consoles), ...

You don't actually know this.
Unless someone has numbers that take handhelds out of the equation, you can't state whether or not Nintendo's home console profits have been a good story business-wise.
When Nintendo dropped the price of the gamecube to 100 € and later € 50, it's hard to imagine that worked 'in their favour'.

 

[Neff]

You don't actually know this.
Unless someone has numbers that take handhelds out of the equation, you can't state whether or not Nintendo's home console profits have been a good story business-wise.
When Nintendo dropped the price of the gamecube to 100 € and later € 50, it's hard to imagine that worked 'in their favour'.

Nintendo has stated that Gamecube was profitable in its own right. Not a wild success, but profitable, with an enduring legacy despite representing a tiny portion of the market at that time. Given their near-hopeless situation in competing with PS2, that's not a failure by any means.

Regarding the comment

It shows just how bad their hardware strategy has been across all platforms.

The inference that Sony does better business than Nintendo is flawed. If you want to exclude handheld figures for some reason, then you can, but they came from the same management tactics and business model that created Nintendo's consoles.

Nintendo's approach is super-conservative, but it's also highly adaptive and historically-speaking, it works. Sony is into high-stakes gambling in the hope of establishing trojan horse ventures and multimedia cross-pollination. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Considering the poor financial state they're in, coupled with the money pit disaster that was the PS3, you couldn't call their approach good business, or Nintendo's poor, in comparison.

 

[ZhugeEX]

That's unfortunate. Thanks for the hardware estimates though.

No worries.

One thing that really shows how well Sony has done is that their consoles take the first, second and fourth place for best selling consoles of all time with only the Wii able to take third.

No doubt the PS4 will get to 5th and potentially could reach 2nd.