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[OmegaDL50]

Back in in the early 2000s, GameFAQs was a godsend for 10 year old without money. I would use my parents 56K modem just to get FFVII FAQS and save them to a word document so I can read them without hogging the phone line, those were the days.

I never had the FFVII strategy guide for myself, but I remember borrowing a friend's copy just to glance through it.

It's funny you mention GameFAQs considering who wrote the official guide for FF7 (Dan Birlew) who was a prominent FAQ writer for GameFAQs under the alias President Evil, in fact most of his written guides at the time were removed being hired by Brady at the time.

Most of the guides he wrote were solid - http://www.amazon.com/Dan-Birlew/e/B001IGX1EW/ref=sr_tc_ep?qid=1297799275

However Square's stupid PlayOnline thing really screwed up the FF9 guide for everyone involved, Brady and Piggyback included.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Where are all of these turned based jRPGs that are coming out? Outside of Persona 5 and that SMT X FE there is nothing else.

World of Final Fantasy and Trails of Cold Steel are the big ones I can think of.

If Verendus is to be believed, possibly a new Suikoden as well.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

World of Final Fantasy and Trails of Cold Steel are the big ones I can think of.

If Verendus is to be believed, possibly a new Suikoden as well.

I kinda doubt either of those will be "big". The Trails games are niche as hell, and while it'd be cool if a cutesy FF game does well, I don't expect it to.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

I kinda doubt either of those will be "big". The Trails games are niche as hell, and while it'd be cool if a cutesy FF game does well, I don't expect it to.

He just asked for names, not whether they'll be massive or not, or else he wouldn't have listed P5 and SMT x FE.

 

[Two Words]

In 2017, we're likely going to have huge action RPGs like Horizon and others like Cyberpunk 2077 on the way. If Square Enix tries to turn FFVII into a game like that and capture that audience, they are going to fail. Unless they make a total upheaval to their production studio, they simply cannot compete with those kinds of games. That just alienates your older fanbase while chasing a fanbase that never really cared about the game. This has been the problem in the Japanese industry for so long. A FFVII remake doesn't need to be a $100 million game that needs to sell 10 million copies in order to break even. They already have several of those kinds of games coming from Japan and their Western studios.

This game should be a new FFVII experience that is still familiar to the original. When you play the game, you should still feel like you are playing a FFVII game, but one that is modern and better for it. An action RPG will not capture this feeling at all.

 

[Dark_castle]

In 2017, we're likely going to have huge action RPGs like Horizon and others like Cyberpunk 2077 on the way. If Square Enix tries to turn FFVII into a game like that and capture that audience, they are going to fail. Unless they make a total upheaval to their production studio, they simply cannot compete with those kinds of games. That just alienates your older fanbase while chasing a fanbase that never really cared about the game. This has been the problem in the Japanese industry for so long. A FFVII remake doesn't need to be a $100 million game that needs to sell 10 million copies in order to break even. They already have several of those kinds of games coming from Japan and their Western studios.

This game should be a new FFVII experience that is still familiar to the original. When you play the game, you should still feel like you are playing a FFVII game, but one that is modern and better for it. An action RPG will not capture this feeling at all.

What I've been trying to say. Though at the end of day, I can kinda understand why they would go for something more action-y. Action titles are the hot stuff these days, whether if its action rpg, character action, action adventure, fps, tps, you name it. Like when was the last time a turn-based RPG not named Pokemon sold 4 to 5 million units? They're gonna capitalize on the trend, and people who wishes for a more authentic, old-school turn-based battle system would have to suck it.

 

[Koozek]

I love everything I am reading. Especialy Ferrari redesigning the characters. He's the guy who designed the characters for XV, right ?

He designed some of the FFXV characters from the E3 '13 trailer and NPCs, like Cidney/Cindy. I'm almost sure these, which I absolutly love, are done by him, too:

These are all unknown, yet, and I really hope we'll hear more about them at gamesom!
---

I love this attitude, which also made the premise of FFXV/ersus so exciting:
— There’s a lot of parts that are being altered. But have there not been any opposing voices to changing things from the original?

Nomura: There certainly are some staff who put too much of a focus on the ‘VII-ness’ and are resistant to changing it. But that FFVII-ness isn’t something you can easily point to and say ‘that’s it!’ about, and it means different things for different people. I’ve got a lot of attachment to VII myself. But those “feelings” and being “trapped” by the FF of the past are two separate things. If you make up your mind, “‘FF is like this,” then you can’t make FF.

— I see. What do you think the requirements for a FF creator are, Mr. Nomura?

Nomura: I think that love for FF alone isn’t enough to make FF. Someone who isn’t satisfied with FF can make it. A creator has to be someone who wants to change FF, to surpass it. Kitase and myself, all the staff from back then rewrote FF in that way. And with this remake too, we’re naturally going into it with that same mettle. The next time we will be able to bring you info about this game will be in the winter and beyond that, but I promise that we will show you something surprising that breaks away from the concept of FF that we’ve seen so far.

Whew, I'm beyond hyped now.

 

[Zukuu]

I somehow thinks he misses the point. "You love FF? Here is a remake that isn't like FF, because that is how FF is. Enjoy." Wtf

 

[TheGreatDirector]

I somehow thinks he misses the point. "You love FF? Here is a remake that isn't like FF, because that is how FF is. Enjoy." Wtf

I think you might have missed the point. There is no thing that is inherently "Final Fantasy". Like he says, you have to constantly reinvent and not stick to the old to make Final Fantasy games.

 

[Death Penalty]

In 2017, we're likely going to have huge action RPGs like Horizon and others like Cyberpunk 2077 on the way. If Square Enix tries to turn FFVII into a game like that and capture that audience, they are going to fail. Unless they make a total upheaval to their production studio, they simply cannot compete with those kinds of games. That just alienates your older fanbase while chasing a fanbase that never really cared about the game. This has been the problem in the Japanese industry for so long. A FFVII remake doesn't need to be a $100 million game that needs to sell 10 million copies in order to break even. They already have several of those kinds of games coming from Japan and their Western studios.

This game should be a new FFVII experience that is still familiar to the original. When you play the game, you should still feel like you are playing a FFVII game, but one that is modern and better for it. An action RPG will not capture this feeling at all.

Your two examples of action RPGs Square can't compete with are from a studio who's completely unproven in the field (Horizon) and a studio that makes games that have combat often cited as mediocre (The Witcher). People are going to buy Final Fantasy VII because of the brand, even those who have simply heard the game is legendary and are newcomers. If you think that Final Fantasy VII can't compete with any game out there on name alone you're fooling yourself, and if a more traditional turn based system alienates a thriving new generation of fans that's just as bad as taking a risk on action.

As a concept, I simply strongly agree with Nomura's sentiment of making the remake successful in its own right.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

New FFs should be for taking risks with the formula, not remakes that are not only trying to appeal to a new audience.

 

[Koozek]

I somehow thinks he misses the point. "You love FF? Here is a remake that isn't like FF, because that is how FF is. Enjoy." Wtf

Are you sure you understand the essence of FF?


What Final Fantasy is, According to its Creator:

"Final Fantasy is Final Fantasy if it has a blue window with text in it."

Sakaguchi's official answer was much more eloquent:
"Say it's "what is born after those who live intensely, run across a multitude of unbeaten paths to reach the same goal in the end." After all, we've always strived to do new things, and I'd like it if we kept doing that."

Looking back, Sakaguchi mused, "With Final Fantasy V, Kitase and I tried to change Final Fantasy and didn't hold back on our ideas. Even if we emptied ourselves, we'd pour out as many ideas as we could the next time around and change everything. Basically, 'so long as the blue window is there, you can do anything you want.'"

 

[Two Words]

Your two examples of action RPGs Square can't compete with are from a studio who's completely unproven in the field (Horizon) and a studio that makes games that have combat often cited as mediocre (The Witcher). People are going to buy Final Fantasy VII because of the brand, even those who have simply heard the game is legendary and are newcomers. If you think that Final Fantasy VII can't compete with any game out there on name alone you're fooling yourself, and if a more traditional turn based system alienates a thriving new generation of fans that's just as bad as taking a risk on action.

As a concept, I simply strongly agree with Nomura's sentiment of making the remake successful in its own right.

We're a long way away from Witcher 1's bad combat. And I obviously can't state which action RPGs will be out 2-3 years from now, but I think my point is clear. There are companies that just do this stuff better than Square Enix could ever do. Imagine if Elders Scrolls 6 is coming out around the same time. There are simply too many of these kinds of games trying to sell to the same people. Turning FFVII into one of these kinds of games isn't going to turn it into a Skyrim selling game.

Just imagine how much content will be cut from an action RPG FFVII. Hell, just look at the number of enemies in the original.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Final_Fantasy_VII_Enemies

 

[AuthenticM]

I somehow thinks he misses the point. "You love FF? Here is a remake that isn't like FF, because that is how FF is. Enjoy." Wtf

I think his point was that it's important to not be blinded by nostalgia when updating a game.

 

[Zukuu]

I think you might have missed the point. There is no thing that is inherently "Final Fantasy". Like he says, you have to constantly reinvent and not stick to the old to make Final Fantasy games.

Normally yes, but not when you are making a REMAKE.

 

[Two Words]

I think his point was that it's important to not be blinded by nostalgia when updating a game.

It's not just nostalgia though. There are many many many aspects of FFVII that would be a far worse game as an action rpg.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

I think his point was that it's important to not be blinded by nostalgia when updating a game.

theres still a certain amount of freedom that should be permitted in adding a new mainline FF compared to remaking the most beloved one

 

[crooked spin]

I'm a little confused, what exactly is Nomura doing with this game that has everyone so upset?

 

[Arkeband]

If it's an ARPG, I've already got the perfect title for the remake:

"ALMOST: FINAL FANTASY 7"

 

[Aceshighhhh]

It's not just nostalgia though. There are many many many aspects of FFVII that would be a far worse game as an action rpg.

Such as what? I don't see how the story or characters would be compromised with a different battle system. Seems like you're just blowing smoke here

 

[muteki]

If it's an ARPG, I've already got the perfect title for the remake:

"ALMOST: FINAL FANTASY 7"

Hopefully it sells well and we can get:

"NOT QUITE: FINAL FANTASY 6"

 

[Two Words]

To be fair, them turning FFVII into an open world action RPG like one we see released a dozen times a year would be the perfect finale the past two decades of pleading for a remake with disappointment. I can imagine Hashimoto coming on Sony's stage at E3 2016, talking about FFVII. He'll talk about how next year will be the 20 year anniversary and that is when the remake will release. Fans will go crazy. Then he'll show the first gameplay footage, which will be some sort of Kingdom Hearts/Skyrim hybrid with NCP quests and a crafting system/morality system. And then....

 

[HeelPower]

Yeah, you're gonna have to give me some examples of the "many more continue to be made". Bonus points if on console.

Pokemon ?

A run of the mill pokemon game will likely sell just as much (probably a lot more)as laboriously,lavishly produced,cutting edge teched up FFXV ,and its turn based.

Turn based is very much prominent in Japanese market but not so much in the console market ,but that's more cuz consoles games as a whole don't do well in Japan.

 

[DoktorEvil]

I somehow thinks he misses the point. "You love FF? Here is a remake that isn't like FF, because that is how FF is. Enjoy." Wtf

I think his point was that it's important to not be blinded by nostalgia when updating a game.

.

You are going to set yourself up for disappointment and anger if you expect FF7R to be turn based again or held nearly 1:1 to the original game.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

Such as what? I don't see how the story or characters would be compromised with a different battle system. Seems like you're just blowing smoke here

the music for one. Jenova-LIFE fight would not nearly be as effective in an action RPG

.
You are going to set yourself up for disappointment and anger if you expect FF7R to be turn based again or held nearly 1:1 to the original game.

if that somehow happens, I will express great anger. A remake should not genre shift a game. Either way people are just extrapolating from basically nothing.

— I’m curious to know if the game system is different as well.
Nomura: It has changed. I still can’t give you any details, but the system feels more immersive.

Theres really nothing to takeaway from any of this

 

[Aceshighhhh]

I'm a little confused, what exactly is Nomura doing with this game that has everyone so upset?

Baby duck syndrome

 

[Hynad]

I for one doesn't want the game to be the same as the original but with prettier graphics.

That would be a superficial remake, and I think the game deserves more.

I want the game to feel fresh. A new take on the concepts that FF VII pushed.

It was mentioned in the teaser that this would bring joy, but also fear. So far, there's a lot of people who fear the game won't be exactly the same... And I simply don,t understand that. If people want to have the same game, they can just play the original.

Personally, I can't wait to see how this remake will turn out, and I'm glad they're trying to update the gameplay and give us a new experience.

 

[Two Words]

Such as what? I don't see how the story or characters would be compromised with a different battle system. Seems like you're just blowing smoke here

A big part of FFVII was the amount of enemies in the game. I have a hard time believing they are going to design hundreds of enemies like the original game had. Cutting that down significantly and fighting the same monsters more often does impact the game hugely.

The same goes for materia. There is no way they can possibly create an action rpg game where there are so many choices in materia.

Same goes with the party. FFVII isn't FFVII if you are controlling only one character. The story was not only about Cloud. It's not a story about him. He's actually one of the least important characters to the story as a whole.

I think you are forgetting just how immense the scale and world of FFVII was back in its day. Even today, it is a marvel to play it and see how much was accomplished in that game. If that game is reduced into what is typically found in an action RPG, then that will be extremely dissapointing.

 

[MissDeviling]

I think you might have missed the point. There is no thing that is inherently "Final Fantasy". Like he says, you have to constantly reinvent and not stick to the old to make Final Fantasy games.

TBH, that's pretty much FF for me: always changing and unpredictable. SE has been pretty conservative about the battle systems up to 10 regarding command-based inputs, but even then, the meat of the system always changes, be it Materia or Junctions or Espers or whatever. It's exciting to see them experiment and try to improve on menu inputs, especially in spin-offs like Type-0 and LR, in which they're free to be more experimental. Can't wait to see what they can cook up with VIIR.

On the other hand, I'm a bit more cautious about the changes to the plot, since the stories of Advent Children and the rest of the VII Compilation left a lot to be desired, but hopefully they'll do better since this is gonna be huge (whereas the Compilation felt like cheap cash-grabs, and AC was only a movie).

 

[Dark_castle]

Pokemon ?

A run of the mill pokemon game will likely sell just as much as laboriously,lavishly produced,cutting edge teched up FFXV ,and its turn based.

Turn based is very much prominent in Japanese market but not so much in the console market ,but that's more cuz consoles games as a whole don't do well in Japan.

You said many more though. Pokemon, fine, that's only one series, what else? I can come up with few more upcoming turn based RPG series, but the numbers is like a peanut compared to action counterpart.

 

[Two Words]

Didn't somebody at Square Enix say they want FFVII to revitalize console gaming in Japan? I really don't see that happening if it is a western-focused action RPG.

 

[Karkador]

Didn't somebody at Square Enix say they want FFVII to revitalize console gaming in Japan? I really don't see that happening if it is a western-focused action RPG.

Who said it was going to be a "western focused action RPG"

Calm down already

 

[Death Penalty]

We're a long way away from Witcher 1's bad combat. And I obviously can't state which action RPGs will be out 2-3 years from now, but I think my point is clear. There are companies that just do this stuff better than Square Enix could ever do. Imagine if Elders Scrolls 6 is coming out around the same time. There are simply too many of these kinds of games trying to sell to the same people. Turning FFVII into one of these kinds of games isn't going to turn it into a Skyrim selling game.

Just imagine how much content will be cut from an action RPG FFVII. Hell, just look at the number of enemies in the original.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Final_Fantasy_VII_Enemies

You say there are companies that just outclass SE in action and then mention stuff like The Elder Scrolls? We're talking solely about the battle system are we not? SE wouldn't even have to work hard to beat the Elder Scrolls out, and beyond battle system changes I don't think that your argument that the content of the rest of the game would drastically change to accommodate action holds any water.

 

[DoktorEvil]

if that somehow happens, I will express great anger. A remake should not genre shift a game. Either way people are just extrapolating from basically nothing.

It won't... It's still a RPG...

No Final Fantasy game is ever 1:1 from iteration to iteration.

Square and now SE is always trying new things and toying with new battle mechanics and new art styles to see what consumers will respond to.

Ideally, fans could cherry pick their favorite parts/aspects of every game.

Didn't somebody at Square Enix say they want FFVII to revitalize console gaming in Japan? I really don't see that happening if it is a western-focused action RPG.

No one, especially Nomura, has said this...

 

[Two Words]

You say there are companies that just outclass SE in action and then mention stuff like The Elder Scrolls? We're talking solely about the battle system are we not? SE wouldn't even have to work hard to beat the Elder Scrolls out, and beyond battle system changes I don't think that your argument that the content of the rest of the game would drastically change to accommodate action holds any water.

Action RPGs are more than just their combat.

The content I've been talking about is completely about the change in combat.

It won't... It's still a RPG...

No Final Fantasy game is ever 1:1 from iteration to iteration.

Square and now SE is always trying new things and toying with new battle mechanics and new art styles to see what consumers will respond to.

Ideally, fans could cherry pick their favorite parts/aspects of every game.



No one, especially Nomura, has said this...

Not all RPGs are the same genre. And I didn't say Square Enix said they were doing that. But some people here seem to want that kind of RPG out of this in this thread.

 

[badcrumble]

The one thing I would like them to try and tackle is keeping a full party rather than just three. I'm not adverse to selecting a few for certain events but the whole "you lot wait here whilst us three go do everything" has always felt a bit weird, even if you can only use three as active and he rest are support roles. There could be an interesting solution to balance out those that want ATB and those that want a more action based approach. Also the game uses different party leaders so could be interesting to explore different perks with different members as party leaders rather than having one forced upon you. I would also like the Fort Condor mini game to be expanded into a Tactics style mini game rather than tower defence.

Yeah, FFXII and FFXIII's battle systems made me wonder why we couldn't just have the entire party onscreen at once.

 

[Skilletor]

Wow, so we've moved the paranoia from: it's not turn based. To it's action. To it's western focused action game.

lol

What a time to be alive.

 

[Aceshighhhh]

A big part of FFVII was the amount of enemies in the game. I have a hard time believing they are going to design hundreds of enemies like the original game had. Cutting that down significantly and fighting the same monsters more often does impact the game hugely.

The same goes for materia. There is no way they can possibly create an action rpg game where there are so many choices in materia.

Same goes with the party. FFVII isn't FFVII if you are controlling only one character. The story was not only about Cloud. It's not a story about him. He's actually one of the least important characters to the story as a whole.

I think you are forgetting just how immense the scale and world of FFVII was back in its day. Even today, it is a marvel to play it and see how much was accomplished in that game. If that game is reduced into what is typically found in an action RPG, then that will be extremely dissapointing.

This doesn't really answer my question.

Didn't somebody at Square Enix say they want FFVII to revitalize console gaming in Japan? I really don't see that happening if it is a western-focused action RPG.

The Witcher 3 seemed to sell extremely well in Japan

 

[Koozek]

Didn't somebody at Square Enix say they want FFVII to revitalize console gaming in Japan? I really don't see that happening if it is a western-focused action RPG.

Way too risky if they only focused on that. If Japan won't eat up a modernized version, then, well, bad luck, I guess. Japan's console market will never ever be as big as it was.
FF has to focus on the western console market for mainline FFs from now on. First thing they should not repeat the mistake of FFXV's character designs, that's the biggest hurdle in the west for that game.

However SE's obviously also trying to focus on the "J" in JRPG again for the rest of their classic series, which is a good thing. But for a FF they need more than that.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

It won't... It's still a RPG...

Action RPG and Turn based RPG are two very different genres

 

[SolidSnakex]

Didn't somebody at Square Enix say they want FFVII to revitalize console gaming in Japan?

Square is hoping that their renewed focus on JRPG's in general will help the market, not simply FF7. It's just a piece of the puzzle, not the entire thing.

I really don't see that happening if it is a western-focused action RPG.

What exactly is a western-focused action RPG. Would you say Kingdom Hearts would apply to that label? What about he original combat system in Versus? They were both ARPG's, but I don't think anyone would ever look at them and think of them as being western-focused.

 

[Two Words]

This doesn't really answer my question.



The Witcher 3 seemed to sell extremely well in Japan

I said the whole game would be compromised, not just the story and characters.

 

[Dark_castle]

When was the last time a remake changes the battle system entirely and are more well received than the original? I can't think of any thus far, as most remakes I've played are rightfully faithful to the original, of course upgraded with modern convenience, mechanic refinement, balancing and such.

 

[Two Words]

Square is hoping that their renewed focus on JRPG's in general will help the market, not simply FF7. It's just a piece of the puzzle, not the entire thing.



What exactly is a western-focused action RPG. Would you say Kingdom Hearts would apply to that label? What about he original combat system in Versus? They were both ARPG's, but I don't think anyone would ever look at them and think of them as being western-focused.

Yes, Kingdom Hearts is totally a game designed with a Western focus. But that makes at on of sense when you consider that half of the game is Western IP. When he talks about trying to modernize FF, my worry is that to them that means NCPs handing out quests, collecting materials for crafting, some sort of morality system and an overlyinflated sense of player agency.

 

[CaviarMeths]

Fuck, I hate the word "immersive" when used to describe video games. It's a self-important buzzword that means absolutely nothing. This morning I got "immersed" in Final Fantasy IV on my Vita. Because it's a good game.

Anyway, that's my minute of grumpiness.

 

[DoktorEvil]

Action RPG and Turn based RPG are two very different genres

Sub Genres, maybe, but they are all part of the genre called RPG.

Skyrim and Final Fantasy share the same genre, despite coming from wholly different dev teams from different countries with different mechanics.

Again, why is everyone so focused on the battle system when there were legit posts in here that wants to retcon Aerith's death LOL

 

[dramatis]

You're diminishing sales numbers of older games by using sales figures of games nearly 20 years younger. The Witcher 3 sold over 4 million copies you say?! Do you think that might be due to multiple factors, one being its multiplat, but the chief of which being the number of people playing video games in general has grown exponentially...?

This is like the argument over box office revenue when we have individual butts-in-seats data right here. I would hope that in another 20 years sales figures of games will have risen, too.

In other words, you're using bad comparisons.

I'm ignoring your sales figures for the games that are in completely different genres, because if you dig a little deeper, guess what outsold Skyrim? Pokémon Gold and Silver (23 million). You know what outsold that? Pokémon Red/Blue/Green. (23.64 million).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games

And how many years did it take Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow and Pokemon Gold/Silver to sell that? The first week Gold/Silver went on sale in Japan, it sold 1.4 million. Its LTD in Japan is approximately 6 million. But that's from 1999 to today: 16 years. You're citing lifetime figures for sixteen years of sale. Skyrim did it in less than two.

Speak for yourself, and use a better comparison: Pokemon X/Y released about two years ago. Wiki states that its sales as of March 31, 2015 (after 1.5 years of sale), are 13.85 million.

Your numbers also indicate a decline in sales between Red/Blue and Gold/Silver. In comparison, The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion sold 3.5 million over 4 years. Skyrim sales showed that the audience for the game expanded, and expanded significantly. It gave the publisher confidence in funding sequels and successors because there is a giant chunk of change to be made.

I'm hardly diminishing sales of older games. You're the one who brought up FF7's total sales numbers from 2010, to which I responded accordingly with contemporary numbers of contemporary games and brands that have long exceeded FF7. We haven't argued over revenue, because sales = butts in seats, it's not a raw dollar value. You just fixated on the sales numbers and missed the forest for the trees. The point I'm making is that the contemporary market is different from 18 years ago. It has different tastes. It wants different things. And many of those things, as shown by the popular games of today, suggest action-oriented gameplay is popular.

13 years for FFVII sold 10 million copies? I could have sworn that FFVII sold 9.8 in like 6 years. FFXIII didn't ship 13 million and action-based doesn't mean anything. FFVII is a popular game, why change the battle system around for?
It wouldn't be FFVII anymore.

FF13 not shipping 13 million is indicative of a decline in series and brand popularity. It does actually mean something. It means it's questionable that the remake will actually sell 10 million regardless of whether it has an action system or a turn-based system. Because the value of "Final Fantasy" as a brand has diminished over time.

Arguably "Final Fantasy 7" could be a brand by itself, separate from "Final Fantasy", but its modern value hasn't been proven in digits close to a million. We can only evaluate its port sales.

Gaming becomes more commonplace with every passing year and the lowered bar of entry.

You do the math. The market of 2015 is larger than the market of 1997. Sales figures will continue to increase proportionally. If they don't, then the game had less market penetration and objectively didn't sell as well.

If FF7 was being thrown at 150 million PS1's and sold 10 million copies and continues to lead charts on re-releases, and the number of PC's is in the billions but Skyrim only sold 20 million units across that and two consoles, both of which have an install base of 80 million, pound for pound FF7 should be recognized as being a stronger release.

Would you also like to account for how many more games there are, competing between today's titles? The expenses and time for development, etc.? Increased rate of piracy because of availability on PC, and whatnot? Competition from the huge market of mobile games?

You stated that FF7 had sold 10 million copies by 2010. Don't use "2010" and then complain about comparisons between games that released in the last 5 years and a game that released 18 years ago. Moreover, it's dishonest to claim that the PC gaming market consists of 'billions' because of the amount of computers in the world, when you know that the gaming market doesn't include every single computer user.

Saying that FF7's strong performance from 18 years ago is an indicator of how it is a stronger release than Skyrim TODAY is an opinion of little rationality. The reason why one would look at contemporary games to get an idea for what would sell is because the market now is not the same market as 18 years ago. It's the disingenuous reason for why you positioned FF7's 10 million sales number into 2010 in the first place: to make it look like 7's immense popularity is still current. CDs were very popular 18 years ago; people don't use CDs anymore in 2015. But hundreds of millions of CDs were sold between 1997 and 2010! It must still be really popular! That's not how it bloody works.

I'm not strongly on either the turn-based side or the action-side. What I disagree strongly with is your position of fuck the newcomers, because that position ensures continued decline. Square could just so easily shave the budgets and make mid-tier Final Fantasy and then the same people would complain about the low production quality, the rushed work, and the lack of cool cinematics (see Lightning Returns). Or they can just take the series and go wholesale mobile. But they don't and they understand they need to improve and change because that's the way to survive. Being conservative and keeping everything the same isn't the way to do that. If it means adapting to a market that wants an action-oriented system then so be it.

 

[Koozek]

Sub Genres, maybe, but they are all part of the genre called RPG.

Skyrim and Final Fantasy share the same genre, despite coming from wholly different dev teams from different countries with different mechanics.

Again, why is everyone so focused on the battle system when there were legit posts in here that wants to retcon Aerith's death LOL

I wouldn't even know what to say to people who seriously want that

 

[Two Words]

Sub Genres, maybe, but they are all part of the genre called RPG.

Skyrim and Final Fantasy share the same genre, despite coming from wholly different dev teams from different countries with different mechanics.

Again, why is everyone so focused on the battle system when there were legit posts in here that wants to retcon Aerith's death LOL

RPG is the most nebulous and pointless genre that basically says nothing about what the game is on its own. Is Infamous an RPG too? Grand Theft Auto? Batman: Arkham Knight? They have many of the same trappings as an Elder Scrolls game too. Many RPGs don't let you create a character either.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

Sub Genres, maybe, but they are all part of the genre called RPG.

Skyrim and Final Fantasy share the same genre, despite coming from wholly different dev teams from different countries with different mechanics.

Again, why is everyone so focused on the battle system when there were legit posts in here that wants to retcon Aerith's death LOL

because people focus on whats in the realm of possiblity.

Its a horrible comparison, its like trying to directly compare bloodborne to hyperdimension neptunia just because both are RPGs. Its as ridiculous as asking for Civilization 6 to be a real time strategy game