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[Kipper]

I can't think of a game where you don't play some sort of role.

 

[Turin]

"AC was made with technology from 10 years ago, and visually with how it was stylised and such it wouldn’t fit in with the images for this game, so we’re not using them." - Nomura

Knowing that he and Ferrari are collaborating on designs, this made me very very very happy.

Very.

Normally yes, but not when you are making a REMAKE.

I've always thought they should have stayed away from that word. It's going to mislead some people.

Resident Evil was a remake. This definitely won't be that.

 

[Koozek]

"AC was made with technology from 10 years ago, and visually with how it was stylised and such it wouldn’t fit in with the images for this game, so we’re not using them."

Knowing that he and Ferrari are collaborating on designs, this made me very very very happy.

Very.



I've always thought they should have stayed away from that word. It's going to mislead some people.

Resident Evil was a remake. This definitely won't be that.

It's probably more of a reimagination.
EDIT: Okay, no. Wrong term, I think.

Remake: A straight re-telling of a story for the purpose of updating it for a contemporary audience, or making it accessible to a different culture or region.

Reboot: A course correction done with the purpose of restarting a franchise. A reset. Fealty to the original story or film is not a priority.

Re-Imagining: A re-telling of a story, but only in the broadest sense. Characters and some story elements may be retained, but mostly plot and story have been repurposed.

Now I'm not sure anymore what this will be. I'm fine with a remake that keeps the most relevant story beats but adds and removes details inbetween them.

 

[crooked spin]

"AC was made with technology from 10 years ago, and visually with how it was stylised and such it wouldn’t fit in with the images for this game, so we’re not using them."

Knowing that he and Ferrari are collaborating on designs, this made me very very very happy.

Very.

I assume they're trying to achieve FFXV's level of character realism with this game, then?

 

[DoktorEvil]

I can't think of a game where you don't play some sort of role.

Batman:Arkman series.

Devil May Cry

Bayonetta.

The Metal Gear franchise.

The Mario franchise.

Half Life 1+2.

Halo 1-5

Want me to keep going?

 

[GreenMakoEyes]

I've always thought they should have stayed away from that word. It's going to mislead some people.

Resident Evil was a remake. This definitely won't be that.

I think they used the term to make people happy.. to realize this is the remake people have waiting for. As said the final titel will be revealed this winter.

 

[Koozek]

I think they used the term to make people happy.. to realize this is the remake people have waiting for. As said the final titel will be revealed this winter.

I bet it'll be FFVII: Reunion.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Yes, Kingdom Hearts is totally a game designed with a Western focus. But that makes at on of sense when you consider that half of the game is Western IP. When he talks about trying to modernize FF, my worry is that to them that means NCPs handing out quests, collecting materials for crafting, some sort of morality system and an overlyinflated sense of player agency.

What's western focused about KH's combat? It's not like ARPG's are necessarily a western thing. As far as your other stuff goes, I just don't really see any of that happening. Especially a morality system.

I just think people should chill a bit. All he's really said so far about the battle system is that they weren't going to make it a carbon copy of the original where you'd have a character jump in and strike and them jump back to the exact same position and continue doing it until the fight was over. And that makes sense. But that also doesn't mean that they're going to turn it into an ARPG. They may very well do that, but there are still menu based options that they could take.

The remake will obviously be different, Nomura has said as much, but he's also made it pretty clear that it won't be a middle finger to the original and its fans. People have seemingly convinced themselves that everything about the original will change. And Nomura has also shot down a lot of that. But if he says anything other than "Yes, it's going to be exactly like the original" people immediately thing that it's going to be a complete departure from it.

 

[Turin]

'Final Fantasy VII: Reunion' is my bet as well. Has a nice ring to it.

I assume they're trying to achieve FFXV's level of character realism with this game, then?

He's used the phrase "more realistic" a number of times and we saw what those characters looked like at the train station in that teaser. So yeah, that's my assumption.

 

[Koozek]

'Final Fantasy VII: Reunion' is my bet as well. Has a nice ring to it.

Especially considering that "Jenova Reunion Theory" is an important part of the story.

 

[DoktorEvil]

It's probably more of a reimagination.
EDIT: Okay, no. Wrong term, I think.

https://www.visualthesaurus.com/cm/dictionary/remakes-reboots-and-reimaginings/
Now I'm not sure anymore what this will be. I'm fine with a remake that keeps the most relevant story beats but adds and removes details inbetween them.

REMAKE with that definition most definitely means updating graphics and changing combat mechanics to reflect modern sensibilities.

I'm not worried anymore. Story/plot/narrative remains intact.

 

[Kapi96]

Batman:Arkman series.

Devil May Cry

Bayonetta.

The Metal Gear franchise.

The Mario franchise.

Half Life 1+2.

Halo 1-5

Want me to keep going?

I don't think you understood quite how literal he was doing. In all of those games you do play a role, whether that role is a soldier, an Italian plumber or Batman. You are technically playing roles in all of them.

 

[Kapi96]

I just think people should chill a bit. All he's really said so far about the battle system is that they weren't going to make it a carbon copy of the original where you'd have a character jump in and strike and them jump back to the exact same position and continue doing it until the fight was over. And that makes sense. But that also doesn't mean that they're going to turn it into an ARPG. They may very well do that, but there are still menu based options that they could take.

Still menu based options for that? You mean like FF13's battle system? Oh joy!

 

[Two Words]

Think of all of the bosses in FFVII that would be so lame as an action RPG. Action RPGs simply cannot do large battles right. They devolve into exploting a large boss' weak points and dodging big slow attacks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3UlftVKaD8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBZ4rnBmwNA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAqO8OaKa2M


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msODenc_GVk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG5hr18qUVg

 

[DoktorEvil]

I don't think you understood quite how literal he was doing. In all of those games you do play a role, whether that role is a soldier, an Italian plumber or Batman. You are technically playing roles in all of them.

If I didn't make it clear, I was being a smart alec.

 

[GreenMakoEyes]

I bet it'll be FFVII: Reunion.

LOL nice, I joked with a friend of mine about that.

or just "FINAL FANTASY VII: Re". This way Re could stand for either Reunion, Remake, Remaster or whatever.

 

[Koozek]

Think of all of the bosses in FFVII that would be so lame as an action RPG. Action RPGs simply cannot do large battles right. They devolve into exploting a large boss' weak points and dodging big slow attacks.

And how would that be different of, well... exploiting a boss' weak point by using the same right spell selected from a menu? Who says you wouldn't have to choose different spells for every boss if it was an action-based system? ARPG doesn't mean you only have normal attacks available. Of course you would have the whole arsenal of Materia to use. The only difference would be the way you input your commands. Face-buttons instead of menus.

What do you think of my idea for a battle-system that I posted before? Too action-y for you? I'm just curious.

As I said a few days ago, FFX-2 + LR with a few tweaks would be perfect. My idea in short:
- Face-buttons for Attack, Defend, Item (select from list with D-pad), etc.
- For each character You have 2 "Sets" for spells which can be accessed by holding L2/R2 + the according face-button or D-pad-button, so 2 x 8 slots = 16 in total (basically like LR, or actually more like FFXIV, I guess)
- Everyone acts out the command instantly, your and enemies' attacks can be cancelled in some cases (like FFX-2)
- If several characters have a full ATB bar you can switch between them with L1/R1 (you could do the same by "Skip Turn" with Triangle in the older FFs) - they don't act until you choose a command (unless you activate Auto-Battle)
- Options-button for quick-access to settings like battle speed, camera or Auto-Battle style (only attack, all-out, etc.)
- You can move around the characters like in FFXII or LR (not sure about how this would affect damage done/taken depending on your distance to the enemy)

 

[Deleted member 325805]

I've never played it but my mate popped a boner when they announced the remake so I might give it a go.

 

[enigmatic_alex44]

!!!

I was on hold with a dental office, and their hold music was playing. It was violin music, and sounded really familiar. I thought "this is nice" and I came to the sudden shock that it was Aeris' theme! Very similar to this

Not ashamed to admit I may have teared up just a bit :*)

 

[Two Words]

And how would that be different of, well... exploiting a boss' weak point by using the same right spell selected from a menu?

Well, I tend to play turn based RPGs without any strategy guides and I don't like using Scan. So there is a sense of discovering what a boss' weakness is without it being telegraphed like most action RPGs. I like it when RPGs at least make bosses immune to scan since they are meant to be more complex encounters. And a turn based boss huge boss fight can incorporate more meaninful mechanics. When you're fighting a boss in which you come up to its ankle in real time, you're kind of forced to really nerf what the boss can do. Think about most action video games you play with large and small bosses. It's the smaller bosses that are typically far more engaging and challenging.

I agree that a modern turn-based game should reduce the ability to exploit weaknesses to such a simple degree, but there are many examples of bosses in turn based RPGs that are more challenging than smaller bosses and enemies. The same isn't so true with action RPGs.

 

[muteki]

Think of all of the bosses in FFVII that would be so lame as an action RPG. Action RPGs simply cannot do large battles right. They devolve into exploting a large boss' weak points and dodging big slow attacks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3UlftVKaD8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBZ4rnBmwNA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAqO8OaKa2M


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msODenc_GVk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG5hr18qUVg

Yeah if anything XV has shown us that they haven't quite figured out how to do action battles on that scale in real-time.

It's not like selecting shiva and chocomog from a menu it's fun.

To you, maybe.

 

[Fdkn]

Think of all of the bosses in FFVII that would be so lame as an action RPG. Action RPGs simply cannot do large battles right. They devolve into exploting a large boss' weak points and dodging big slow attacks.

You could have jenova constantly throwing laserbeams and fire and stuff and even use its tail while you, as a player, avoid all those things and use your attacks, magics and summons.

It's not like selecting shiva and chocomog from a menu is fun.

To you, maybe.

It would be fun if there were some kind of balance and challenge and you had to choose your spells carefully to achieve victory. That's not what happens in FFVII

 

[Two Words]

You could have jenova constantly throwing laserbeams and fire and stuff and even use its tail while you, as a player, avoid all those things a use your attacks, magics and summons.

It's not like selecting shiva and chocomog from a menu it's fun.

Right, and your whole thought process becomes "Dodge the big attacks and find a good angle to hit Jenova where I won't get attacked so quickly."

A good example is Kingdom Hearts. The Ice Titan boss is so easy compared to the Sephiroth boss fight. It's because the Ice Titan boss fight telegraphs its attacks so much and you don't have to really do a whole lot reactively. Sephiroth constantly engages you in a smaller scale combat and constantly pushes you offensively at a distance or up close.

 

[DoktorEvil]

Right, and your whole thought process becomes "Dodge the big attacks and find a good angle to hit Jenova where I won't get attacked so quickly."

A good example is Kingdom Hearts. The Ice Titan boss is so easy compared to the Sephiroth boss fight. It's because the Ice Titan boss fight telegraphs its attacks so much and you don't have to really do a whole lot reactively. Sephiroth constantly engages you in a smaller scale combat and constantly pushes you offensively at a distance or up close.

Kingdom Hearts is just as easy as FF7 is. Sephiroth is an optional boss.

It would be fun if there were some kind of balance and challenge and you had to choose your spells carefully to achieve victory. That's not what happens in FFVII

FF7 is piss easy when all the player really has to do is grind for half an hour before entering each new town and level their Materia/Limit breaks.

Frankly, REMAKE should punish the player for using the wrong spells/abilities much more harshly.

 

[Fdkn]

Right, and your whole thought process becomes "Dodge the big attacks and find a good angle to hit Jenova where I won't get attacked so quickly."

A good example is Kingdom Hearts. The Ice Titan boss is so easy compared to the Sephiroth boss fight. It's because the Ice Titan boss fight telegraphs its attacks so much and you don't have to really do a whole lot reactively. Sephiroth constantly engages you in a smaller scale combat and constantly pushes you offensively at a distance or up close.

Well, that's because they designed the titan that way. You can have a big boss and still make it attack fast and achieve an intense fight. And it's easier to design it that way with Jenova because she doesn't really move, she just pewpew from her eyes.

 

[Two Words]

Kingdom Hearts is just as easy as FF7 is. Sephiroth is an optional boss.



FF7 is piss easy when all the player really has to do is grind for half an hour before entering each new town and level their Materia/Limit breaks.

Frankly, REMAKE should punish the player for using the wrong spells/abilities much more harshly.

That has nothing to do with what I'm saying.

 

[Koozek]

Well, I tend to play turn based RPGs without any strategy guides and I don't like using Scan. So there is a sense of discovering what a boss' weakness is without it being telegraphed like most action RPGs. I like it when RPGs at least make bosses immune to scan since they are meant to be more complex encounters. And a turn based boss huge boss fight can incorporate more meaninful mechanics. When you're fighting a boss in which you come up to its ankle in real time, you're kind of forced to really nerf what the boss can do. Think about most action video games you play with large and small bosses. It's the smaller bosses that are typically far more engaging and challenging.

I agree that a modern turn-based game should reduce the ability to exploit weaknesses to such a simple degree, but there are many examples of bosses in turn based RPGs that are more challenging than smaller bosses and enemies. The same isn't so true with action RPGs.

I see what you mean and I have to admit that I didn't like the battles with bigger monsters in the FFXV demo 2.0, at least not in their current form.
But still, there are other ways to have strategy in an ARPG. Check my edit above.
Maybe it wouldn't just be about dodging the telegraphed attacks but also about using the right spells to make more damage, etc... ARPG doesn't necessarily mean that the only strategy is to dodge and attack, rinse and repeat. There can still be weaknesses that you'd have to "find". What makes you think that that wouldn't be possible?^^

 

[Killroyskbg]

Kingdom Hearts is just as easy as FF7 is. Sephiroth is an optional boss.

Still he is far more fun to face and require alot more skill than anything in FFVII.

 

[Two Words]

Well, that's because they designed the titan that way. You can have a big boss and still make it attack fast and achieve an intense fight. And it's easier to design it that way with Jenova because she doesn't really move, she just pewpew from her eyes.

Can you list some examples of engaging huge boss fights in action RPGs? Boss fights that are as good as their smaller bosses. Even in Bloodborne, the bigger bosses were the easiest and least engaging. I just dodged until I could get the drop on them at an angle advantageous to me. The smaller bosses/hunters were far more challenging and engaging.

 

[enigmatic_alex44]

FF7 is piss easy when all the player really has to do is grind for half an hour before entering each new town and level their Materia/Limit breaks.

? What a bizarre comment. Every turn-based RPG I've played gets easier as you grind. If you don't grind, FF7 is around the same difficulty as most of the other Final Fantasies, with only XIII really standing out as more challenging.

 

[Turin]

I think they used the term to make people happy.. to realize this is the remake people have waiting for. As said the final titel will be revealed this winter.

Nomura's basically been saying that this isn't going to replace the original("surpass" in his words).

I'm glad to hear it but when he does show the game it's imperative that whatever is shown blows peoples socks off. There will always be negativity but a legitimately great looking game will bring the volume down on a lot of that.

 

[Fdkn]

Can you list some examples of engaging huge boss fights in action RPGs? Boss fights that are as good as their smaller bosses. Even in Bloodborne, the bigger bosses were the easiest and least engaging. I just dodged until I could get the drop on them at an angle advantageous to me. The smaller bosses/hunters were far more challenging and engaging.

Any YS game is an easy call, and no I don't expect YS difficulty in this (but it would be cool if they gave us the option for a change)

Or any MMO boss that fills the floor with stuff you have to avoid, it's not like Square doesn't have the knowledge to do this after playing XIV.

 

[muteki]

It would be fun if there were some kind of balance and challenge and you had to choose your spells carefully to achieve victory. That's not what happens in FFVII

What you are describing here and a turn-based/ATB combat system are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Koozek]

Can you list some examples of engaging huge boss fights in action RPGs? Boss fights that are as good as their smaller bosses. Even in Bloodborne, the bigger bosses were the easiest and least engaging. I just dodged until I could get the drop on them at an angle advantageous to me. The smaller bosses/hunters were far more challenging and engaging.

Well, Bloodborne is exactly the opposite of what an action-y FFVII would be. You don't have a ton of different magic spells in that game. It's only about attacking, dodging and parrying.
Nobody would want 7R to be like that, I think. Just that you can input your whole commands in real-time by pressing according face-buttons and have them be instantly executed instead of waiting for your chars to take their turn one after another.

 

[Two Words]

I see what you mean and I have to admit that I didn't like the battles with bigger monsters in the FFXV demo 2.0, at least not in their current form.
But still, there are other ways to have strategy in an ARPG. Check my edit above.
Maybe it wouldn't just be about dodging the telegraphed attacks but also about using the right spells to make more damage, etc... ARPG doesn't necessarily mean that the only strategy is to dodge and attack, rinse and repeat. There can still be weaknesses that you'd have to "find". What makes you think that that wouldn't be possible?^^

Yeah I like the ideas listed. I have no problem with making a more engaging and faster based ATB system. Something that really stood out about FFVII in its release was how cinematic and lively the combat felt compared to other RPGs for its time. I know looking at it now, it feels slow, but compared to previous 2D RPGs, it was really stunning. I could imagine newer hardware could allow them to recreate a whole new and more dynamic ATB system that really pushes it further.

 

[DoktorEvil]

? What a bizarre comment. Every turn-based RPG I've played gets easier as you grind. If you don't grind, FF7 is around the same difficulty as most of the other Final Fantasies, with only XIII really standing out as more challenging.

Grinding for half an hour just to watch incremental numbers increase isn't my definition of fun or modern. I've played better RPGs that modernized RPG combat much better.

I'll be so happy when that shit dies out.

 

[Green Mamba]

An action RPG necessitates that you have fewer abilities as a player due to the immediacy of everything, both from the abilities the character you're controlling has as well as severely limiting the control you have over the other party members due to action games requiring them to be AI controlled for the most part. I'm not big on sacrificing actual party control for shallow real time control. Anything less than being in full control of your party would be a downgrade to me. AI party members suck.

 

[Turin]

Grinding for half and hour just to watch incremental numbers increase isn't my definition of fun or modern. I've played better RPGs that modernized RPG combat much better.

I'll be so happy when that shit dies out.

To be fair, I had to grind on occasion in Kingdom Hearts. And I enjoyed it.

 

[Fdkn]

What you are describing here and a turn-based/ATB combat system are not mutually exclusive.

I know, I like turn based systems when they are well designed.

But If the game goes turn based, they won't bother and it will be the same snorefest that you just brainlessly play to get to the good stuff about the game (plot, characters, etc) while with action based combat, it's more common to have different difficulty options (as kh or even LR with its NG+ proves) and even if they don't, brainless action is more engaging than brainless turns imho.

 

[Two Words]

Grinding for half and hour just to watch incremental numbers increase isn't my definition of fun or modern. I've played better RPGs that modernized RPG combat much better.

I'll be so happy when that shit dies out.

Action RPGs have the same grind problems too. Grinding in general sucks.

 

[Biker19]

I hope that they keep the gameplay at ATB, but to expand it a bit more better.

If I want to play a Action RPG, there's plenty of them out there like Star Ocean, Kingdom Hearts, the "Tales of" series, FF XV, etc.

 

[threelights]

Think of all of the bosses in FFVII that would be so lame as an action RPG. Action RPGs simply cannot do large battles right. They devolve into exploting a large boss' weak points and dodging big slow attacks.

You should play more ARPGs if you think that...

Also, turn-based is even worse with this, because fighting a big enemy is the same as fighting a small enemy.

 

[Aceshighhhh]

Can you list some examples of engaging huge boss fights in action RPGs? Boss fights that are as good as their smaller bosses. Even in Bloodborne, the bigger bosses were the easiest and least engaging. I just dodged until I could get the drop on them at an angle advantageous to me. The smaller bosses/hunters were far more challenging and engaging.

How is that less engaging than scrolling through menu's to assign commands to party members who just wait their turn to attack?

As far as big boss fights, you could also look at almost any action/platformer/adventure game. Zelda always had great boss designs. I love turn-based rpg's but you're seriously just blowing a ton of smoke here. You should go outside and take a breather

 

[Two Words]

How is that less engaging than scrolling through menu's to assign commands to party members who just wait their turn to attack?

As far as big boss fights, you could also look at almost any action/platformer/adventure game. Zelda always had great boss designs. I love turn-based rpg's but you're seriously just blowing a ton of smoke here. You should go outside and take a breather

Engaging doesn't mean it has to be 1:1 experience. I find Civilization to be a highly engaging experience. If you want to be pessimistically reductive, all I'm doing is pushing a bunch of menu options.

 

[Karkador]

Well, I tend to play turn based RPGs without any strategy guides and I don't like using Scan. So there is a sense of discovering what a boss' weakness is without it being telegraphed like most action RPGs.

 

[DoktorEvil]

*shrugs*

To be fair, that's a localization error and a tutorial.

 

[Killroyskbg]

Action RPGs have the same grind problems too. Grinding in general sucks.

I find the need not to grind almost as boring when you can just kill anything you face. I prefer when you get to a new area and the enemies are hard at first but gives you both exp and materials or equipment needed to continue on your main quest.

 

[Two Words]

Early boss fight is acting like an early boss fight.

 

[Karkador]

*shrugs*

To be fair, that's a localization error and a tutorial.

A tutorial of how bosses telegraph that they're going to do something major, like in a lot of Final Fantasy games?

Early boss fight is acting like an early boss fight.

This is in pretty much every FF game. I could sit here and look for you, but you still wont admit you're wrong

 

[Turin]

I find the need not to grind almost as boring when you can just kill anything you face. I prefer when you get to a new area and the enemies are hard at first but gives you both exp and materials or equipment needed to continue on your main quest.

I'm on the same page actually. I like having to train a bit here and there(ARPG or not).