Moral Panic
Member
Th holy grail of all excuses.
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Nintendo explains why you can't play as a woman in Zelda: Tri Force Heroes
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Th holy grail of all excuses.
Finale Fireworker
Member
I want this on a marble bust outside a courthouse. This post is perfect.
Lights and Waves
Member
His answer to the question is so problematic. What does being male have to do with fulfilling the kings request for heroes? Why can't women be heroes? How does Link's masculinity justify the lack of women? That's borderline homophobic.
Linkstrikesback
Member
And they could have skipped the question enitrely if they just made it a four swords game ag ain. Dammit Nintendo, why you gotta make it hard for yourself.
Huh?
Didn't this generation see an increase in their promotion of female characters?
Hell, Zelda itself scored a homerun with the massively lady-oriented cast in Hyrule Warriors.
Tertullian
Member
Weird answer. So, there are three Links? Is there some story explanation for that?
I would actually accept the answer "It's because the main character is Link, and Link is a male character, and the game is at least partly story-driven so the fact that it's Link makes a difference."
But that doesn't seem to be the case here. There's barely any story, and three playable characters.
I would actually accept the answer "It's because the main character is Link, and Link is a male character, and the game is at least partly story-driven so the fact that it's Link makes a difference."
But that doesn't seem to be the case here. There's barely any story, and three playable characters.
Metroid, Animal Crossing, Splatoon, pretty much every modern Zelda game, any Mario game with Peach or Roselina would like to have a word with you.
Super Princess Peach indeed was a bit of a step back, but let's not fly off the handle here. When it comes to progression in women's roles Nintendo's actually ahead of the curve.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Link is the main character of the series and one of the most iconic game characters ever.
Finale Fireworker
Member
This is like NSMB Wii all over again.
Sorry, but Zelda isn't often in direct peril and princess peach's game was *years* ago.
I'm not even half way through fire emblem awakening and there's multiple kickass women who either kick ass directly or are just sweet rulers.
When was rosalina in peril? She helped Mario. Peach in peril is a joke at this point and many Mario games with dialogue love to point this out.
Samus in other M was just an awful characterization to give her "depth" more than a result of trying to make her weak.
hell, they made toads genderless adventure pals and took out roles altogether there.
And animal crossing let's you just fucking chill with cool female characters, and Isabelle is just a dog at work.
Sorry dude.
NeonZ
Member
You've got one Link that somehow is split into three Links with different hair and tunic colors. So, if you could change one of the Links into a girl, it'd mean that the magic somehow also did a gender change. It wouldn't be just a female avatar.
The character in my avatar is actually a male alien magically changed into a human girl for a mobile game tie in, but it should be obvious why Nintendo wouldn't randomly do something like that with their own characters.
StrangeTaco
Member
Because changing a characters gender would fundamentally change them. Also randomly swapping gender after two decades of established games makes literally no sense.
Unless youre being sarcastic in which case ignore this
Jawmuncher
Member
Ryu is also one of the most iconic characters. Being iconic doesn't save you from being boring by some.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Just do it nintendo.
I don't know why but I want it to be possible
I don't know why but I want it to be possible
Honest question, why does it matter? No malice behind my question but I've been under a rock for a while. I never played games thinking about the gender of the character I'm playing as. I played games to play games.
Is it really a bad thing not to include optional gender choices?
Why make a change if it only bores some people?
Is it really a bad thing not to include optional gender choices?
Why make a change if it only bores some people?
balladofwindfishes
Member
Because Link is an established character with an established gender.
People would laugh at a Street Fighter game without Ryu. Even janky Street Fighter spin offs that barely resemble Street Fighter feature Ryu.
DXLelouch153
Banned
just make him a tomboy
its what would logically happen to any guy if they suddenly became a girl
WrenchNinja
Member
Wow
This is the dumbest excuse I've ever seen
This is the dumbest excuse I've ever seen
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
Well, I definitely agree that their explanation is a bad. I mean, if anything, in cases like this its the explanations that usually make the situations a lot worse (ergo Ubisoft with AC Unity). I guess my point is just to address the wider issue of whether or not we should be pushing for greater representation in games for the sake of greater representation, or should we be pushing for more meaningful representation.
Yeah, I absolutely understand where you're coming. And like I said, as someone who is part of a minority in the country I live in, I'd love for more characters of my racial background to be included in video games, but if they're going to be included, I'd rather it be a meaningful inclusion rather than a checklist inclusion to appease those who a vocal about the issue. If anything that's worse than not including them in my eyes.
Since that time they evolved the franchise to be fairly plot and character development focused, including the various Links. I want to play as a character, not myself. One of the most disappointing things about Xenoblade X was that they turned the main character into a customizable player avatar.
As for this game, all they had to do was say "The main character is Link and we didn't want to model other characters so we used palette swaps."
Jonneh3003
Banned
Completely agree with you
QueenOfThorns
Member
Uhuh.
lol I haven't played this but I think pointing out a few games where Nintendo has done a somewhat better job than they usually do as a sign that they're immune from sexism/misogyny complaints is a strange argument. Like what they've done is baby steps but they haven't really changed anything major to make me believe that they're honestly getting better. Being able to choose your gender in a mainline Zelda game would certainly help with that. Ain't no reason Link needs to be a boy. It's not like he has some in depth character development that needs to stay consistent.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
This is the same company that gave us Birdo. I don't think there would be a big issue with a magic gender change for a magic replica of Link.
Also, Nintendo just announced that they're going to have gay marriage in a Fire Emblem game, I don't think they're that against changing up their ideology.
Finale Fireworker
Member
Okay?
Link is also a pantheon of characters, descendants from one another, that has the possibility for versatility and diversity built directly into the lore. If Link was suddenly female (like Thor) or black (like Green Lantern), why would this change the game, series, or character in a detrimental way?
How would this be anything other than good? Or at the very least interesting? Are you unable to enjoy a Zelda game without white male Link? It's not like an entire generation rejected Luigi as a playable character because he wasn't Mario. Or Dixie Kong because she wasn't Donkey Kong.
You slap a Hispanic Link on the cover of Zelda NX and you know how this would compromise the character? Not at all. Not even a little bit.
Ryu is a false equivelancy and you know it. Ryu is not an infinite bloodline of Ryu's spanning all history, past and future.
DXLelouch153
Banned
exactly
its not even the same Link each game
the curse put on their descendents didnt specify he had to be a boy
Mango The Magician
Banned
I'm more confused by the fact that there seems to be no story explanation behind there being three Links, that and Link somehow dyes his hair at some point.
Still it is called Tri Force heroes, they could have easily made one character be Link, one be Zelda and then one be Impa or someone else.
Still it is called Tri Force heroes, they could have easily made one character be Link, one be Zelda and then one be Impa or someone else.
Is there a problem with a character being strong and sexy at the same time? Seems to work for Bayonetta.
Jawmuncher
Member
Which is understandable. I can still get why people say they're bored with said character though in that sense. Though they'll never be the majority.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
So much for the whole "There's nothing to support that Link is male in the legend! It's just an avatar!" stuff that keeps popping up.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
I am sure this will get the same level of response (and duration) as the Assassins Creed Unity situation.
Except it won't, despite being an even worse answer.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Making Link ethnic for the sake of making Link ethnic would be worse than not even including a different race at all. You'd turn Link into the token black guy.
Sounds like he's trying to squeeze out explanations/justifications from the very basic fact that they simply defaulted to male characters as they usually do, and of course, the result feels forced and unsatisfying. It's difficult, because these interviews aren't actually set up to be especially introspective, or to act as a platform for admissions of societal blindspots. Doesn't leave much room for heartfelt self-critique.
All that said, it's disappointing that they missed the opportunity to implement gender customization. That's not something I want at all in a mainline Zelda game (all for a fully realized female Link, though), but it would have made complete sense in this one. The pallet swat approach is kind of lame.
All that said, it's disappointing that they missed the opportunity to implement gender customization. That's not something I want at all in a mainline Zelda game (all for a fully realized female Link, though), but it would have made complete sense in this one. The pallet swat approach is kind of lame.
SkeptiMism
Member
But that's not what's going on here. They're 3 different people. One Link and 2 other guys.
I'll quote myself:
To reiterate a little, it's not necessarily a bad thing at all to not include gender choices. If your game has a set protagonist, it's fine to create it male, there's nothing wrong with it.
But the thing is, it's easy to just create those male protagonists and there are a lot of people who would like also more female protagonists (for example because they're bored of stereotypical male characters, or they're a minority that would some more representation). So that's why people ask about it.
Come on, no need to be so passive aggressive.
I don't see why you couldn't genderswap Link and Zelda if you really wanted to. Plotwise, I think only Ganon has to be male because he never reincarnated like Link or Zelda have. He just gets resurrected or escapes banishment, and his whole thing is that he's the only dude in his tribe.
Finale Fireworker
Member
what
So when Jimmy Stewart became the new Green Lantern, he became the token black guy? When Miles Morales became the new Spider-man, he was the token Hispanic?
Seriously, what?
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
You have to have 3 players in order to play, so two people would have to be knock off link. If they want to play as female randoms they can't.
The game doesn't provide AI buddies so you can play alone.
QueenOfThorns
Member
How many male characters are always presented as strong and sexy at the same time? (I know I'm going to get like a few token examples, and that's fine.) It's not an issue or debate when it comes to them. But it's extremely common in video games and other forms of media when it comes to women, and it's pretty alienating!
DragonSworne
Banned
Why would he be a token black guy? This sounds racist.
WrenchNinja
Member
You mean the modern Zeldas where she's the one in peril
It really was the Equivalent to my best friend is X so i can say Y and them not being offended so everyone shouldnt be. lmao
Honestly this.
I'm usually really against unnessecary options for games with established characters, but for link it really doesn't matter.
They could even keep the canon link a dude, or just focus on "green tunic'd hero"
If they made a sequel to Majora's Mask then yeah, that link would be a dude. He's established as a guy. But for an all-new game? Why *can't* that link be a lady if the main goal isn't helping Zelda and wooing her but saving hyrule as a continent?
Why can't two cool ladies team up in a Zelda story?
Edit
*exactly* this.
"a brave hero named *insert name* wakes up and [he/she] is told by their fairy to go talk to [Prince/princess] Zelda that Ganon is back and he's about to cause a ruckus"
You have link, Zelda, and ganon. Link and Zelda are in the same family tree as they're supposed to be and they've got the cool sprits or whatever but link is lady this reincarnation
This. About Link and Xeno X.
Or like, "The character models and animations for ALBW were already done. So...." lol.
Come on. They're all Link. (They can say it's Link and two other random heroes but I'm not blind. It's pretty clear you're always Link from your own perspective, like how you're always playing as Arno in Assassin's Creed Unity multiplayer.) People need to get over this weird desire to gender swap characters.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
To be fair, Link's usually one of the few Hylian's left. Everyone else is a different race.
LegendofLex
Member
I can't think of a single plot moment in any of the recent Zelda games where the game would need to be changed if you could choose a female version of the character. Your character has no dialogue or romantic relationships (the plot's been told mostly through sidekick characters), so it would be a purely cosmetic change as far as consequence to the game universe goes.
Linkstrikesback
Member
Because if you aren't beaten around the face with it being said, it can't possibly be true.
I'll just quote myself on the matter.
That said, if two of the characters aren't link at all, there's no reason they should be males.
They should have skipped the entire discussion and just had it be another four swords game though.
DrROBschiz
Member
I can understand the criticism
This game is a spin off like Hyrule warriors and there really isnt a reason to to have female respresentation
Personally though it would be kind of a tiny ask. When are we gonna get a full fledged game with playable Zelda campaign
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This game is a spin off like Hyrule warriors and there really isnt a reason to to have female respresentation
Personally though it would be kind of a tiny ask. When are we gonna get a full fledged game with playable Zelda campaign
Super Princess Peach is almost 10 years old. I can't call that a shining beacon of progressiveness but its a decade old blip on the Nintendo radar. To call them misogynic, you're going to have to demonstrate a pervasive pattern of belittling women amongst their games and narratives (especially recently). The occasional "damsels in distress" isn't going to cut it because for most of these tropes, the problem isn't their existence but their overuse.