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[matrix-cat]

I agree with everything you said, PW is seriously bad MGS game, I hated every minute of it unlike mainline MGS games which I consider masterpieces.

I think it's just a bad game, full stop. The individual parts are bad, the overall picture is bad. Shit sucks.

I forgot to even mention the QTEs in cutscenes that ruin your S-rank and often aren't even related to what's actually happening in the scene (literally just "Push this button right now to keep watching!"). Or that they brought back Otacon's Dad and he's just Otacon with a different name. Or that every time you meet a female character the game prompts you to zoom in with your inexplicable X-ray vision to see them in their panties. What a shitshow.

 

[Hypron]

You're vastly overestimating the amount of grind required (or you are doing something seriously wrong). I almost never did, simply S-ranking missions gave me enough staff (vehicle missions will make mother base overflow anyway) and advanced the build timers enough to almost never have to redo them. There are more than 150 different missions, that's more than enough.

The vehicle missions are boring when playing solo, but I had lots of fun going through them all with another player, especially the most difficult missions where using cool stealth techniques was really useful.

 

[Ratrat]

I quit Peace Walker with the torture button mashing scene, couldn't do it.
Portable Ops > Peace Walker.

 

[Jeb]

Sorry if I misunderstood, but why the hurry to speed through the entire series?
Phantom Pain ain't going anywhere, take your time an enjoy this amazing series.

 

[JimmyRustler]

I've replayed MGS1 and 2 over the last couple of weeks, then took a break after getting into the post-Ocelot-fight cave in MGS3 (always hate that place) to get a bit of Ground Zero-ing done. I've got my save file ready to go to transfer into MGSV, and I thought I'd give Peace Walker another go.

I've been giving this game chances since it came out. Started on the PSP, but I couldn't handle the horrific bad controls/terrible framerate/awful bossfights combo. I finished it and got the true ending when the HD Collection came out and made the game actually playable, but had absolutely no interest in doing any extra stuff. Came back a year or so later to try some Extra Ops, stopped dead when it became clear that I'd have to suffer through about five of the vehicle fights to unlock each mildly enjoyable normal stealth mission.

This game is just trash. It is not good. I am baffled that people like it. The gameplay is at best mediocre, at worst genuinely deplorable. These motherfucking vehicle bosses are just the perfect storm of every example of bad gameplay design I've ever come across, with a few new innovations in the field just for fun:
- More health than could ever be enjoyable to whittle away? Check
- Near endless backup, spawning from all corners of the arena? Check
- Attacks that destroy you, forcing you to hide in sheds and behind crates for fifteen minute stretches? Check
- You physically cannot carry enough ammo to deplete their health, and the game lowers your heroism if you dare to use the supply markers. Fuck you.
- Trying to do it stealthily? One foot wrong and it's all over, bro.

At least there are only a few of them, right? Oh no, wait, there are like ten in the main campaign and then another FIFTY in the Extra Ops, all taking place in the same three areas, all the exact same fucking thing every fucking time, all terrible. I know there are lunatics who think this trash heap of a game has positive qualities in other areas, but such a huge portion of the game is made up of this 100% irredeemable garbage that I am fully comfortable in declaring Peace Walker a flat out bad game.

And the more you play it, the worse it gets. Every step along the path to building Mother Base requires a trip to GameFAQs to work out where to find shit and what ridiculous, random order the Extra Ops missions are unlocked in and which ones you should waste hours of your life grinding over and over and over in order to farm high rank staff. Grind to get your teams leveled up. Grind to develop the new weapons you can research. Grind to level up those weapons because they're worthless when you first unlock them.

This game does not give you an inch. It takes so much time and effort to make any conceivable headway, and then what? Are you going to use those new weapons to fight more awful bosses? Are you going to go and play with them in the normal missions? No you're not, because you already saw every single level the game has to offer, forward, backward and forward again, when you were playing the story missions and now you can't stand the sight of them. And why would you ever use any of those weapons when simply running up behind a dude (in your magical footstep-silencing suit) and tapping L1 will completely incapacitate him forever? The ultimate stealth move that is the Hold Up is unlocked from the beginning of the game and is never surpassed.

That's not even mentioning the truly woeful story, that isn't even content with stinking up its own game but actively seeks to ruin others. This plot retreads the last ten minutes of MGS3 and retroactively shits all over it. It casts Big Boss as a clueless dope. Kojima has literally made it canonical fact that when The Boss was giving her final, heartfelt speech at Rokovoj Bereg, Big Boss didn't fucking get it. And he continued not fucking getting it FOR TEN MOTHERFUCKING YEARS.

Peace Walker is eight hours of mediocre content stretched out to a hundred hours of misery. Peace Walker is the second coming of that game Takeshi Kitano made that punishes the player at every juncture and actively tries to make you stop playing it. I should have realised that horrible graphics, terrible controls, dull-as-dishwater and extremely basic gameplay and hideous Big Boss facial model were all defense mechanisms, like a cat puffing out its tail and hissing when it doesn't want you to come near it.

FUCK.

Thanks for reminding me why I'm gonna skip that game in my playthrough and instead just watch the movie on YT.

Remember absolutely hate, hate, hating the final boss fight because it dragged on forever and ever.

 

[leesmapman]

I missed this topic completely, but is he going to play Metal Gear 1 and 2 too?

 

[matrix-cat]

You're vastly overestimating the amount of grind required (or you are doing something seriously wrong). I almost never did, simply S-ranking missions gave me enough staff (vehicle missions will make mother base overflow anyway) and advanced the build timers enough to almost never have to redo them. There are more than 150 different missions, that's more than enough.

The vehicle missions are boring when playing solo, but I had lots of fun going through them all with another player, especially the most difficult missions where using cool stealth techniques was really useful.

I'm not interested in S-ranking vehicle missions. They fucking suck and I don't want to do a single one more than is absolutely necessary. A game shouldn't require you to play co-op just to make it bearable, especially not one in a long-running, otherwise exclusively singleplayer series.

There might be 150 different missions, but at least 50 of them are vehicles (which, as I said, is some of the least enjoyable gameplay I've ever suffered through) and most of the rest are over in a couple of minutes. And, like I said, they all take place in the same tiny levels you've already gone through multiple times in the story missions. Go to the same place and kill all these dudes. Now don't kill anyone. Now hold them up instead. Now Fulton everyone. Now only Fulton one guy. Oh, you've already played all the available missions? Fight some more vehicles!

Some of the high end gear, even once you've unlocked it, requires 30+ missions just to craft. There's shit in there that is only craftable after you've spent hours grinding the superbosses for ultra-rare random fucking drops. Everything in this game is grinding.

 

[Henkka]

I dunno, I just replayed through Peace Walker and couldn't disagree more. There's nothing in the game that blows my socks off, but it's simple and easy to play. It's like a comfy game to play while you're listening to a podcast. Granted, I was just playing through the story, I don't care one bit about grinding the perfect Mother Base or whatever. I didn't pay attention to a lot of the crafting stuff, either. Just Fulton some guys, assign them wherever, oh I can craft a Mosin Nagant now? Awesome! Just keep on going. Didn't play a single Extra-Op, because yeah, those are pretty boring. But keep in mind, they're made for japanese people to play while they're on the train to school or work. You're not supposed to play through dozens of Extra-Ops in one sitting.

I also had a lot of fun with the vehicle missions. And I don't mean 'fun' as in 'tolerable', I genuinely enjoyed them. I did them non-lethally, which is something I didn't know was possible at first. I managed to get the tank once without a single alert, either. Tranquilizing the helicopter pilot was hard as shit, but extremely satisfying. Once you get some vehicles, you can wreck shit in Outer Ops and get new recruits from there.

The mech fights are merely okay, though. The final Peace Walker battle is the only one I thought had way too much HP, but you only have to fight them a couple times to get enough stuff for ZEKE.

 

[CelticKnight]

Posted this the MGS thread, thought it was apt here...

I'm done. MGS1, MGS2, MGS3 and also watched the MGW "Movie" on YouTube.

At least I now know who the Hell Paz and Chico are whenever they're referenced. And the end to Peace Walker!?! I'd heard stories about how cringeworthy it was but the the whole "blonde, blue eyed triple agent in her undies" thing made me glad there was no-one else in the room watching it with me.

Things I take from the series: the story makes a bit more sense to me no than it did when I was just reading Wiki articles (still batshit crazy, though), Kojima loves cleavage, re-used themes stradled the line between "homage" and "cliché", David Hayter is good but I'm glad Sutherland is doing Big Boss now.

On to Ground Zeroes now. Yay.

Kojima has literally made it canonical fact that when The Boss was giving her final, heartfelt speech at Rokovoj Bereg, Big Boss didn't fucking get it. And he continued not fucking getting it FOR TEN MOTHERFUCKING YEARS.

I thought that when I was watching it, but I just assumed I missed something. Guess not.

 

[HAVIK136]

A bit late here but my advice to OP (and to anyone else who is thinking of playing the series before TPP) is not play any of the Metal Gear Solid games in order. Playing all of them in one month is a bit much in my opinion and honestly, I think that this is a series that is better to digest over time than confront over one mad dash. I say you should start with Metal Gear Solid 3, then Peace Walker, then move on to Ground Zeroes and when it comes out, play The Phantom Pain. After that and if you have the patience, play the original Metal Gears then play Metal Gear Solid 1, 2, and 4 at your own leisure and pace. Sure it won't be in order of release and you'll be getting some pretty jarring shifts in control and features but I think that in this situation, playing them in chronological order of story rather than release would be best

 

[Roussow]

So, guys,

I think Metal Gear Solid 3 might quickly be becoming one of my favorite games, ever.

 

[zkorejo]

Originally Posted by matrix-cat

Kojima has literally made it canonical fact that when The Boss was giving her final, heartfelt speech at Rokovoj Bereg, Big Boss didn't fucking get it. And he continued not fucking getting it FOR TEN MOTHERFUCKING YEARS.

I thought that when I was watching it, but I just assumed I missed something. Guess not.

I dont blame Big Boss... I dont get it either. What exactly does he not "get"?

 

[AgentOtaku]

I've replayed MGS1 and 2 over the last couple of weeks, then took a break after getting into the post-Ocelot-fight cave in MGS3 (always hate that place) to get a bit of Ground Zero-ing done. I've got my save file ready to go to transfer into MGSV, and I thought I'd give Peace Walker another go.

I've been giving this game chances since it came out. Started on the PSP, but I couldn't handle the horrific bad controls/terrible framerate/awful bossfights combo. I finished it and got the true ending when the HD Collection came out and made the game actually playable, but had absolutely no interest in doing any extra stuff. Came back a year or so later to try some Extra Ops, stopped dead when it became clear that I'd have to suffer through about five of the vehicle fights to unlock each mildly enjoyable normal stealth mission.

This game is just trash. It is not good. I am baffled that people like it. The gameplay is at best mediocre, at worst genuinely deplorable. These motherfucking vehicle bosses are just the perfect storm of every example of bad gameplay design I've ever come across, with a few new innovations in the field just for fun:
- More health than could ever be enjoyable to whittle away? Check
- Near endless backup, spawning from all corners of the arena? Check
- Attacks that destroy you, forcing you to hide in sheds and behind crates for fifteen minute stretches? Check
- You physically cannot carry enough ammo to deplete their health, and the game lowers your heroism if you dare to use the supply markers. Fuck you.
- Trying to do it stealthily? One foot wrong and it's all over, bro.

At least there are only a few of them, right? Oh no, wait, there are like ten in the main campaign and then another FIFTY in the Extra Ops, all taking place in the same three areas, all the exact same fucking thing every fucking time, all terrible. I know there are lunatics who think this trash heap of a game has positive qualities in other areas, but such a huge portion of the game is made up of this 100% irredeemable garbage that I am fully comfortable in declaring Peace Walker a flat out bad game.

And the more you play it, the worse it gets. Every step along the path to building Mother Base requires a trip to GameFAQs to work out where to find shit and what ridiculous, random order the Extra Ops missions are unlocked in and which ones you should waste hours of your life grinding over and over and over in order to farm high rank staff. Grind to get your teams leveled up. Grind to develop the new weapons you can research. Grind to level up those weapons because they're worthless when you first unlock them.

This game does not give you an inch. It takes so much time and effort to make any conceivable headway, and then what? Are you going to use those new weapons to fight more awful bosses? Are you going to go and play with them in the normal missions? No you're not, because you already saw every single level the game has to offer, forward, backward and forward again, when you were playing the story missions and now you can't stand the sight of them. And why would you ever use any of those weapons when simply running up behind a dude (in your magical footstep-silencing suit) and tapping L1 will completely incapacitate him forever? The ultimate stealth move that is the Hold Up is unlocked from the beginning of the game and is never surpassed.

That's not even mentioning the truly woeful story, that isn't even content with stinking up its own game but actively seeks to ruin others. This plot retreads the last ten minutes of MGS3 and retroactively shits all over it. It casts Big Boss as a clueless dope. Kojima has literally made it canonical fact that when The Boss was giving her final, heartfelt speech at Rokovoj Bereg, Big Boss didn't fucking get it. And he continued not fucking getting it FOR TEN MOTHERFUCKING YEARS.

Peace Walker is eight hours of mediocre content stretched out to a hundred hours of misery. Peace Walker is the second coming of that game Takeshi Kitano made that punishes the player at every juncture and actively tries to make you stop playing it. I should have realised that horrible graphics, terrible controls, dull-as-dishwater and extremely basic gameplay and hideous Big Boss facial model were all defense mechanisms, like a cat puffing out its tail and hissing when it doesn't want you to come near it.

FUCK.

Bravo-sir

Bra-fucking-Vo

The insane amount of Monster Hunter kool-air drinking/audience chasing KILLED this game's structure.
Probably the only one in the franchise I flat out refuse to ever replay in retrospect.... it's crazy because I ADORED this game too when it first came out. Which, makes perfect sense considering I myself had invested 300+ hours into Monster Hunter Freedom Unite.

 

[Hypron]

I'm not interested in S-ranking vehicle missions. They fucking suck and I don't want to do a single one more than is absolutely necessary. A game shouldn't require you to play co-op just to make it bearable, especially not one in a long-running, otherwise exclusively singleplayer series.

That's fair enough, and I agree that it's a shortcoming of the game. It was unnecessary to have 3 variants of every type of vehicles too. However, playing all those missions in co-op with a guy I met online was one of the best multiplayer experiences I've ever had (especially missions with 5 red skulls, the other ones are too easy).

There might be 150 different missions, but at least 50 of them are vehicles (which, as I said, is some of the least enjoyable gameplay I've ever suffered through) and most of the rest are over in a couple of minutes. And, like I said, they all take place in the same tiny levels you've already gone through multiple times in the story missions. Go to the same place and kill all these dudes. Now don't kill anyone. Now hold them up instead. Now Fulton everyone. Now only Fulton one guy. Oh, you've already played all the available missions? Fight some more vehicles!

I would have liked more level variety too, but you have to keep in mind that this started out as a lower budget PSP game. I do feel like they did a fairly good job with the gameplay variety considering the low number of environments.

Some of the high end gear, even once you've unlocked it, requires 30+ missions just to craft. There's shit in there that is only craftable after you've spent hours grinding the superbosses for ultra-rare random fucking drops. Everything in this game is grinding.

The random drops aren't that rare because there are ways to maximise the drop rates (i.e. target specific body parts) to completely acceptable levels (e.g. 30+%). That stuff is also mostly completely optional (like the Tanegashima or Peace Walker's legs) and not required unless you go for all the trophies.

Furthermore I don't remember anything major taking 30 missions to craft (and I got most of the higher end, R&D lvl99 type shit) - I was never waiting for something to finish, I could always do other missions in the meanwhile. I'm also pretty sure build times advance faster when doing longer missions. I platinumed that game so I know how much grind it requires. It doesn't require anywhere near that much grinding, unless you simply consider going through all the available missions grinding.

So yeah, I completely disagree with your assertion that the game is a piece of shit. It's flawed (like most games in the series, except in a different way), but I still found it highly enjoyable overall.

 

[M.D]

Is it worth getting Metal Gear Solid: The Legacy Collection or just get the HD collection + MGS4?

 

[holygeesus]

Is it worth getting Metal Gear Solid: The Legacy Collection or just get the HD collection + MGS4?

If you want MGS, take into account it's not on the HD collection, so will be added cost.

 

[M.D]

If you want MGS, take into account it's not on the HD collection, so will be added cost.

I played it but I'd like to complete it again if I'm to play the entire series. Legacy Collection it is then.. thanks!

 

[Dynasty8]

So, I decided I won't play Peace Walker...But is the story an important part of the series? I've played them all except for that.

 

[Disgraced]

I quit Peace Walker with the torture button mashing scene, couldn't do it..

You submitted in MGS1, didn't you?

Spoiler

So, I decided I won't play Peace Walker...But is the story an important part of the series? I've played them all except for that.

Yep. It's pretty much the actual MGSV. It was even called that during development. Phantom Pain is more like MGS6.

 

[AgentOtaku]

Played a little HD Peace Walker.... forgot how INSANELY better it feels over the PSP original.... dammit now I'm tempted to play more :\

 

[Kolma]

Played a little HD Peace Walker.... forgot how INSANELY better it feels over the PSP original.... dammit now I'm tempted to play more :\

When Legacy came out.
At that point I had only played through MGS 1 and MGS 2 (1 on gcn, 2 on xbox, never owned a PS2 till much later)
Anyways, jumped straight to 3 and after that played PW however it felt weird to me as I did play some of it previously on psp. So I bought the digital version and transfarred the save to the vita. to beat it there. (used a PSP and PC to save transfer)

Yeah it sucked playing at 15fps but it felt better to me too.
Since this I did replay through MGS1 ps1 version and MGS2 on legacy.
Don't care much to play MG and MG2... yet.

Now currently replaying MGS3 on 3DS, feels really good despite being 20fps. wish it had gyro controls.
Certainly doesn't feel as epic as it did the first time, but loving it nonetheless.

Can't wait till TPP comes out!

 

[Ogawa-san]

Sometimes it sucks being LTTP. Finished MSG3 yesterday, went to very carefully read a wiki about

Spoiler

The Boss

to see if I got that insane ending down before starting PW, ended up finding out

Spoiler

who is her son

because that was pretty much right under "height".

No more wikis for me until after MGS4 now.

 

[Dynasty8]

Sometimes it sucks being LTTP. Finished MSG3 yesterday, went to very carefully read a wiki about

Spoiler

The Boss

to see if I got that insane ending down before starting PW, ended up finding out

Spoiler

who is her son

because that was pretty much right under "height".

No more wikis for me until after MGS4 now.

You find that out at the end of MGS3's ending. They give you a bunch of clues throughout the game.

 

[Ratrat]

Sometimes it sucks being LTTP. Finished MSG3 yesterday, went to very carefully read a wiki about

Spoiler

The Boss

to see if I got that insane ending down before starting PW, ended up finding out

Spoiler

who is her son

because that was pretty much right under "height".

No more wikis for me until after MGS4 now.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=IjXc8F9n0_U

Just looked it up and it's actually revealed in a codec in MGS3. I missed it myself.

 

[dmshaposv]

Peace Walker is nothing but trash. I've literally warned all of you and you still play.


The story is trash as well. I tried sitting through the youtube movie version - couldn't make it past the first couple of hours.

I'd rather keep Rising in canon than PW. Thats how much I dislike PW.

 

[Ogawa-san]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=IjXc8F9n0_U

Just looked it up and it's actually revealed in a codec in MGS3. I missed it myself.

Yep, I totally missed that. If I hadn't, I would've audibly gasped during the last fight

Spoiler

when she showed the scar, instead of just wondering who had done the most messed up c-sect in the history of mankind

.

That's not the kind of information you just stuff on a hidden, optional codec talk... ugh. I'm just gonna assume that

Spoiler

both Boss and Ocelot know

.

 

[HYDE]

I've played Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2. I suggest not playing them.

Metal Gear - watch on YouTube
Metal Gear 2 - watch on YouTube
Metal Gear Solid - play the original
Metal Gear Solid 2 - play
Metal Gear Solid 3 - play
Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops - watch on YouTube if you want
Metal Gear Solid 4 - play
Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker - play
Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes - play

Good luck! I hope you have fun and accomplish what you want in time for The Phantom Pain!

What!? They are amazing games and as playable as when they were released...classics.

 

[Screaming Meat]

A game shouldn't require you to play co-op just to make it bearable, especially not one in a long-running, otherwise exclusively singleplayer series.

What about a game that was built from the top down with social, on-the-move play in mind, should that kind of game hinge on co-op and short bursts of play...?

It seems like the majority of your mechanical complaints are that it isn't like the main, numbered experiences, something it was never designed to be like. The people who only played it as part of the HD Collection aren't the audience the game was aimed at or designed for and a lot of them seem like they couldn't adjust their expectations and approach accordingly.

That's not to dismiss its shortcomings, of course, but claiming the game is "bad" based on what you want it to be and whether it matches that, rather than judging it on what it was designed to be and whether it achieves that, seems like a doomed enterprise from the start.

 

[ffejeromdiks]

Peace Walker is nothing but trash. I've literally warned all of you and you still play.


The story is trash as well. I tried sitting through the youtube movie version - couldn't make it past the first couple of hours.

I'd rather keep Rising in canon than PW. Thats how much I dislike PW.

It's an incredible game, it's such a shame its so polarizing among fans, I really feel like people don't give it a fair chance. I say this without ever touching the co-op feature too, the game is fucking great even solo. I've beat it two times now, once on a PSP emulator and again in the HD collection, It's what MGS4 should have been.

 

[Koyuga]

Yeah, Peace Walker really is a phenomenal game, but I guess it isn't for everyone. The only parts I don't like are the repetitive Extra Ops. It worries me with how hated Peace Walker seems to be, that Phantom Pain might be just as polarizing.

 

[matrix-cat]

I would have liked more level variety too, but you have to keep in mind that this started out as a lower budget PSP game. I do feel like they did a fairly good job with the gameplay variety considering the low number of environments.

I don't think that's a valid excuse. It's not like KojiPro were surprised by the limitations of the PSP; they would have known full well exactly how much UMD-space they had to work with going into the project, but they still decided to make a game that would require endless retreads of the same limited content. They still made the game a dual-analogue shooter on a system with a single analogue stick. Why not just make a game that doesn't expect you to do fifty identical vehicle fights in the same three arenas?

It seems like the majority of your mechanical complaints are that it isn't like the main, numbered experiences, something it was never designed to be like. The people who only played it as part of the HD Collection aren't the audience the game was aimed at or designed for and a lot of them seem like they couldn't adjust their expectations and approach accordingly.

My mechanical complaints are that the mechanics are all bad. Stealth gameplay is ludicrously barebones, bossfights are uniformly terrible, and the combat mechanics are some of the worst I've ever experienced in a third-person shooter (and don't tell me it's not a third-person shooter, because no stealth game forces you into this much open combat). Guns with reticles that are just two widely-spaced horizontal lines, with so much spread and recoil that you just cannot hit what you're aiming at. Enemies that can shrug off like ten heavy, sizzling rounds to the gut without even flinching, then another three more when they finally fall over, wearing helmets that take two shots just to pop off their heads. You run so fucking slowly, and you take so long to get up again when something knocks you down, and every fight is just a slog against seemingly endless enemies or bosses with fifty times more health than could ever be enjoyable to deplete. You're either hiding behind things while watching Snake languidly reload a rocket launcher, or you're casually jogging from one side of the arena to the other because it's your only evasive manoeuvre.

Hell, if it's not going to be an enjoyable game when you don't play co-op, why even make singleplayer an option? You don't just get a free pass for making a shitty singleplayer game because, "Oh, well you should have played it co-op". Designing bosses around co-op play and then not rebalancing them if you're playing solo is not OK. Cut the health by three quarters, or give me some AI controlled buddies or something. If there's a singleplayer mode in there, it should be good. It isn't.

If Peace Walker was a co-op-only spin-off, I'd be fine with it. I could read about it on the internet, go "Hmm", and move on with my life. Like the Acid games; they're spin-offs, I don't need to know about them. Revengeance I happen to adore, but if I didn't it wouldn't bother me because it doesn't pretend to be part of the main series. Peace Walker, though, very much is a main entry in the saga, so, like it or not, it has to be played. I dislike it because it doesn't feature anything that I like about Metal Gear Solid games, yes, that's true. But I also think that it's simply a bad game on its own merits, regardless of its title.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

I played maybe 2 hours of Peace Walker so far and I really, really don't feel it. It controls weird, the areas so dar are super small, your options are super limited, mother base feels just like a grind and it's really hard to go from MGS 3 to this graphics wise.

 

[Cramoss]

Years and years and years since I played MGS2, I'm really really enjoying it again. Can't wait to replay MGS3 at full.

 

[ffejeromdiks]

I. It casts Big Boss as a clueless dope. Kojima has literally made it canonical fact that when The Boss was giving her final, heartfelt speech at Rokovoj Bereg, Big Boss didn't fucking get it. And he continued not fucking getting it FOR TEN MOTHERFUCKING YEARS.
.

Not true, he keeps it to himself as to reveal to other people the Boss's real actions would completely disrespect her sacrifice. Later in the game he is literally being tortured to death for the truth and he keeps his resolve by keeping his mouth shut. The EVA tape reveals that the Boss wanted only Snake to know the truth, he can't just go around babbling about it to any random joe.

 

[Screaming Meat]

My mechanical complaints are that the mechanics are all bad. Stealth gameplay is ludicrously barebones, bossfights are uniformly terrible, and the combat mechanics are some of the worst I've ever experienced in a third-person shooter (and don't tell me it's not a third-person shooter, because no stealth game forces you into this much open combat).

While I agree the Boss Battles are shockingly bad, the combat mechanics are (for me) the best in the series up until GZ. If they are the worst you’ve ever encountered, I guess you haven’t played a Kane & Lynch game.

What do you mean barebones in terms of stealth?

Guns with reticles that are just two widely-spaced horizontal lines, with so much spread and recoil that you just cannot hit what you're aiming at.

That’s surprising. I was massively disappointed that we didn’t get the same reticules in GZ. No joke. I don’t think I’ve ever been able to pull off headshots so consistently.

Enemies that can shrug off like ten heavy, sizzling rounds to the gut without even flinching, then another three more when they finally fall over, wearing helmets that take two shots just to pop off their heads. You run so fucking slowly, and you take so long to get up again when something knocks you down…

Is that any different to any other Metal Gears…?

…and every fight is just a slog against seemingly endless enemies or bosses with fifty times more health than could ever be enjoyable to deplete. You're either hiding behind things while watching Snake languidly reload a rocket launcher, or you're casually jogging from one side of the arena to the other because it's your only evasive manoeuvre.

I find shooting helps. ;P

Hell, if it's not going to be an enjoyable game when you don't play co-op, why even make singleplayer an option? You don't just get a free pass for making a shitty singleplayer game because, "Oh, well you should have played it co-op". Designing bosses around co-op play and then not rebalancing them if you're playing solo is not OK.

But the main campaign bosses are more than manageable. They don’t have ridiculous health or numbers of troops. What you’re talking about are the Extra Ops which are for all intents and purposes Raid bosses designed to be played in Co-Op.

Cut the health by three quarters, or give me some AI controlled buddies or something. If there's a singleplayer mode in there, it should be good. It isn't.

It’s a PSP game that can handle something like 6 moving parts. This is what I mean by unrealistic expectations.

We'll have to agree to disagree on whether the game is good or not.

 

[JimmyRustler]

Fiished MGS3 last evening. Man, the ending of that game is such a drag. Talk about overstaying ones welcome.... I hate how no MGS boss after MGS1 ever wants to just fucking die.... Why do I have to fight Volgin 3 times? It's just stupid. And the short gameplay section with Eva after that is the most redundant thing ever. Really tainted the great ending for me.

Well, onto MGS4 now.... Damn, the framerate of that game is so bad...

 

[Hypron]

I don't think that's a valid excuse. It's not like KojiPro were surprised by the limitations of the PSP; they would have known full well exactly how much UMD-space they had to work with going into the project, but they still decided to make a game that would require endless retreads of the same limited content. They still made the game a dual-analogue shooter on a system with a single analogue stick. Why not just make a game that doesn't expect you to do fifty identical vehicle fights in the same three arenas?

I view the extra ops more like additional content so I can't bring myself to really care about the same environments being reused multiple times. Same way I don't care that Ground Zeroes uses the same environment for all the missions. They're there if you want to play more of the game. Now, I'm aware that you need to play some of them to unlock the true ending, but I don't think you need to even play vehicle battles (which seem to be your #1 issue reading your posts) at all for that.

My mechanical complaints are that the mechanics are all bad. Stealth gameplay is ludicrously barebones, bossfights are uniformly terrible, and the combat mechanics are some of the worst I've ever experienced in a third-person shooter (and don't tell me it's not a third-person shooter, because no stealth game forces you into this much open combat). Guns with reticles that are just two widely-spaced horizontal lines, with so much spread and recoil that you just cannot hit what you're aiming at. Enemies that can shrug off like ten heavy, sizzling rounds to the gut without even flinching, then another three more when they finally fall over, wearing helmets that take two shots just to pop off their heads. You run so fucking slowly, and you take so long to get up again when something knocks you down, and every fight is just a slog against seemingly endless enemies or bosses with fifty times more health than could ever be enjoyable to deplete. You're either hiding behind things while watching Snake languidly reload a rocket launcher, or you're casually jogging from one side of the arena to the other because it's your only evasive manoeuvre.

Run speed depends on your equipment load and character stats. I'm pretty sure you run faster than in MGS 1-4 if you have a light equipment load with good stats. I'm pretty sure MGSV will also have that system so be prepared for more of that.

I never had any issues with hitting stuff with the firearms either so I don't know what to say. I even used one of the assault rifles for all the sniping missions and it worked just fine.

I can't comment on how resistant the enemies are to getting shot though because I used tranq weapons 99% of the time (and when I didn't I used rocket launchers and the like).

Hell, if it's not going to be an enjoyable game when you don't play co-op, why even make singleplayer an option? You don't just get a free pass for making a shitty singleplayer game because, "Oh, well you should have played it co-op". Designing bosses around co-op play and then not rebalancing them if you're playing solo is not OK. Cut the health by three quarters, or give me some AI controlled buddies or something. If there's a singleplayer mode in there, it should be good. It isn't.

If the game was all boss fights and vehicle battles, I would somewhat agree with you (but even then, you have different tiers of bosses and vehicle fights. Some have health appropriate to low end gears, some are appropriate to high end gear, etc.). But it's not just that, most of the content consists of normal missions which are completely designed for single player gameplay. Now, you seem to have an extreme dislike for vehicle battles so they will ruin the entire experience even though they are just one part of the package, but it's not the case for everyone.

 

[Koyuga]

I played maybe 2 hours of Peace Walker so far and I really, really don't feel it. It controls weird, the areas so dar are super small, your options are super limited, mother base feels just like a grind and it's really hard to go from MGS 3 to this graphics wise.

You're skipping 4?

 

[dmshaposv]

It's an incredible game, it's such a shame its so polarizing among fans, I really feel like people don't give it a fair chance. I say this without ever touching the co-op feature too, the game is fucking great even solo. I've beat it two times now, once on a PSP emulator and again in the HD collection, It's what MGS4 should have been.

MGSV seems to be a more realised version of PW. So PW may only redeem itself of what it has lead to create, if MGSV turns out good.

I don't have a problem with what PW was trying to do, its some of the decisions kojima took with it. For instances, the three things that bother me the most:

Terrible fucking controls. Even if MGSV is a bigger turd of storytelling from the mind of a hideo kojima game (tm), GZ lays the foundation of a a fun sandbox where it is really fun to do stealth or go guns blazing. From what we've seen, MGSV's gameplay is basically GZ but cranked up to 11.

Retconing the technology stuff. I was happy the that big boss games were far from the nanomachines son bullshit because they are based in the past of the canon, that when it tried to bridge shit between the new and old with the A.I., metal gears more advanced than REX and stuff shown on MG1/MG2. Sadly, MGSV is headed down this path as well. Thanks Trash Walker.

Terrible grind gameplay. Im sure MGSV will have this too, but at least it seems like theyve learned that leaving the grinding to the player rather than forcing it. The more advanced graphics might also mean less of 'grind for real ending' as they would want a more definitive ending with trademark kojima custcenes.

 

[Charlouie Jonesman]

PW's vehicle bosses aren't exactly great, (The AI bosses are really fun though, except Chrysalis.) but they become a lot more managable once you realize how overpowered smoke grenades are. Throw one into a group to completle incapacitate them and then take them all out at once with like 2 CQC-combos.

The regular stealth missions are really fun, they're very simple and fast-paced and have this same arcade-like feeling that the older games had. Slamming dudes against walls will never get old.

 

[CassSept]

PW's vehicle bosses aren't exactly great, (The AI bosses are really fun though, except Chrysalis.) but they become a lot more managable once you realize how overpowered smoke grenades are. Throw one into a group to completle incapacitate them and then take them all out at once with like 2 CQC-combos.

Maybe if you spend time to grind weapons. The first time you encounter them it takes FOREVER to make even a dent in their hp which leads to 15+ minute long fights that are not nearly complex or varied to make them fun for that long.

 

[ffejeromdiks]

Maybe if you spend time to grind weapons. The first time you encounter them it takes FOREVER to make even a dent in their hp which leads to 15+ minute long fights that are not nearly complex or varied to make them fun for that long.

You know you don't have to destroy the tank/apc/chopper to win those boss battles right?

Killing all the soldiers/tranqing them will cause the commander to come out of the tank.

 

[Pearson]

So I've complete 1 & 4.

I have 3 to play on my vita at home, and GZ on my PS4.

I won't buy PP unless I get too caught up in all the hype.

 

[wild wild rice]

I agree with everything you said, PW is seriously bad MGS game, I hated every minute of it unlike mainline MGS games which I consider masterpieces.

I concur.

 

[Jeronimo Jones]

Took me almost a week, but I finished my second playthrough of MGS4 last night. I had forgotten so much since I first finished it, and I still like it despite some rambling cutscenes, uneven gameplay decisions, and crazy plot choices.

I'm updating my rankings: MGS3, MGS2, MGS1, MGS4, PW.

 

[War Peaceman]

PW's vehicle bosses aren't exactly great, (The AI bosses are really fun though, except Chrysalis.) but they become a lot more managable once you realize how overpowered smoke grenades are. Throw one into a group to completle incapacitate them and then take them all out at once with like 2 CQC-combos.

The regular stealth missions are really fun, they're very simple and fast-paced and have this same arcade-like feeling that the older games had. Slamming dudes against walls will never get old.

I agree. Although I love GZ (and by the looks of it V) with its plethora of options and modern tech, it was nice in PW to have a more simple, arcadey type of stealth. A return to 1 in some ways. However, I can't in any way endorse those boss fights.

 

[Gun Animal]

I finished PW again tonight and I can confirm what everyone above has said which is that, yep, it's pretty bad. I remember loving it in 2010, but then I also remember being sixteen years old in 2010 and playing it on a PSP, so those are some possible reasons why I didn't recognize it as hot garbage when it released.

Jesus christ, I've been waiting for TPP to come out since High School! I'm in my last year of College now... Just 18 more days

 

[SomTervo]

Just found out my local store will be releasing MGSV on Saturday 29 August.

Hell yeah.

So, guys,

I think Metal Gear Solid 3 might quickly be becoming one of my favorite games, ever.

Yes. You know it's true.

Now currently replaying MGS3 on 3DS, feels really good despite being 20fps. wish it had gyro controls.
Certainly doesn't feel as epic as it did the first time, but loving it nonetheless.

Can't wait till TPP comes out!

Doing the same thing here.

You know what my only real, huge, giant complaint about MGS 3D is?

You only get one save slot.

And even worse, the menu makes it looks like you get more! You click 'new game' and start a new game, then the instant you save, it erases your other main save slot, and doesn't tell you! This is a cardinal fucking sin of game systems design!

I love having two MGS slots on the go - one hardcore, on Extreme or EurEx, for my hardcore stealth needs, and one on Normal, so I can just one-life it for fun. But having one save slot negates this

 

[matrix-cat]

What do you mean barebones in terms of stealth?

Tiny levels, guards with terrible eyesight and the ludicrously overpowered hold up move, mainly. I know there's a camo index system, but once I unlocked the Sneaking Suit I never wore anything else because the silenced footsteps are just too useful. The Sneaking Suit/hold up combo is just all-powerful. Like in MGS3 and 4 it was trickier and riskier to get a dude into the prone hold up position. In Ground Zeroes it's pretty easy, but you have to contend with the fact that they'll get right up again if you set off an Alert anywhere on that base. In Peace Walker, you just jog up behind people tapping L1 and there are no repercussions; ten seconds later you've loaded into another part of the level.

I know I'm harping on the vehicle levels, but honestly the normal stealth levels just felt so inconsequential in comparison. There were never any areas that I felt compelled to stop, take my time, get the lay of the land before I tackled them; I felt like I could take every level at a jog even on my first time through. The only challenge the game can really throw at you is the cloud forest levels with dudes hiding behind trees, but even that trick only gets you once before you learn to keep those NVGs equipped, and after your first couple of missions there (which are simply going through all the levels backwards and forwards) you know where the dudes are going to spawn.

As for the vehicle fights scaling in intensity, to me it felt like they scaled at just the right rate to be too long and tedious every time. They're all balanced to have too much health relative to the weapons you're likely to have at that point in the game. I straight up dreaded having to slog away at those things during the main story, regular vehicles and AIs alike. I never knew how many dudes were going to come pouring out of those clown car APCs; my first bossfight I honestly thought that backup was infinite, and it took so long to even chip away one notch of the health bar that I restarted a few times thinking that it might actually be unwinnable and you were supposed to do it 100% stealthily. I swear I was spending twenty minutes on Peace Walker and ZEKE, just firing rockets until I was dry, calling for more and repeating. I upgrade my gear, they upgrade their health, and it just keeps going like that and I never feel like I'm getting ahead.

It just baffles me that the game is the way it is. Like, how do the designers responsible for some of the most wonderfully enjoyable and creative gameplay scenarios in game history, in terms of bossfights, level design, all that good stuff, come up with this? What possessed them to take so little content and stretch it out into dozens and dozens of hours of repetition, saddling it with this absurdly grind-y economy? I think some of these design elements will actually come into their own in MGSV, which seems to be one of the most content-rich games I've ever come across (and I can't wait to get lost out there Fultoning everything I see), but Peace Walker... I just think it's such a total misfire of a game.

 

[Javier23]

I absolutely hated Peace Walker for the exact same reasons you are listing. It soured my hype for MGSV until I got to play Ground Zeroes.

Still not exactly happy with many of the grindy mechanics being passed onto MGSV, but at least I know I'll enjoy the gameplay itself.