SolidusDave
Member
Disclaimer: I finished the main part of Peace Walker and I'm currently working on getting the actual ending of the story. So please spoiler at least end game story things in your posts until I'm done (on the other hand I already finished Ground Zeroes so it's not like I don't know that fucking Paz has still to reveal her true self).
Otherwise this an open spoiler thread
My history with this game:
This was the first canon (apart from that one Portable Ops game I guess) MGS title that I haven't played right after its release.
Well ok I also waited with Ground Zeroes because I refused to pay full price for it.
This little handheld gaming rant will explain my hesitation:
My first (first-hand) exposure to Peace Walker was the demo available for PSP. First of all, I was biased from the start because after buying a PSP I realized I despise mobile/handheld gaming.
I don't like the bits&pieces style and structure of handheld-focused games, the little screen, the shitty controls (including the limited input options on the PSP), the shittier graphics/performance, no surround sound. Just literally everything is a sub-par experience compared to my normal setup. The only advantage is that I can play on the go obviously but just like with books and movies I find no joy in experiencing something for 5 minutes e.g. in the bus to work. I need to get sucked up by the game world and I just don't care about the games that are structured to cater for this kind of play style.
Off to a good start with PW, right? You can imagine I was especially not happy that Kojima/Konami seemed to invest in an actual MGS game on a handheld. Their previous efforts regarding spin-offs like Portable Ops and Acid were easily ignorable. But this... I also remember people on Neogaf proclaiming Peace Walker to be really MGS5 (yeah, yeah, I know that old PW logo) and that it's better than MGS4 or even the best MGS game ever (thankfully this was usually followed by a rant about MGS4 or one of the other games so at least I already knew these people's opinions were just batshit crazy with poor taste and/or handheld fans /hyperbole).
ANYWAY - I played the demo (and watched some trailers) and didn't like it. Controls were shitty, I didn't like the direction they went with Big Boss/the story/style of the cutscenes (well, comic-panels. Even though the art is stylish), the simplified gameplay and playing a cinematic game on a handheld.
I still might have bought it on PSP if it were a continuation of the MGS story, but as it's a prequel I felt like I didn't miss out. Moreover, people said it doesn't really lead to Metal Gear 1 or how BB turned sour (at least not more than what the ending of MGS3 would suggest).
HOWEVER! Things were looking up a few years ago when I bought the MGS HD collector's edition that also included a 1080p version of Peace Walker for the PS3. Finally I could play it on the big screen with a gamepad, right? Well, TBH having also MGS2 and MGS3 on the same disc just emphasized the failings of Peace Walker as a "true" MGS game. Compared directly, it still looks worse than those oldass games and the changed and simplified gameplay becomes so much more obvious. Then there is the structure of the story with everything cut into bit-sized missions ("To be continued in the next mission" FUCK THIS).
Maybe it's unfair of me to expect MGS2/3/4 levels of awesomeness from this, but let me have my little out-of-spite-reaction to all the people advertising this as MGS5
btw, to pretty up my post I'm including some screenshots I took with the ingame camera
Don't look up screenshots from the jungle in MGS3 HD or the level of interaction with the environment and enemies
>>>That being said - in a vacuum it's still a pretty ok game and I'm having at least some fun with it. As an MGS game, eh, not so much. Even the story kinda sucks for a MGS game. I admit that the game is probably much more fun in coop with all the crazy two-person cardboard tank things etc. but that's just not how I want to play through a sp campaign for the first time<<<
I started this playthrough in 2012 but I got fed up with the mission structure and overall lame-ness (~5 h in, I got until the tank battle) and also had other stuff to play. After the release of Ground Zeroes I wanted to give it another try but I just couldn't wait, which kinda sucks in retrospect.
But, in preparation for MGSV and the fact that even in the trailer some PW references like AI pod are popping up, I plugged the PS3 back in and continued my original playthough last week!
Mh, IQ could have been a bit better all things considered but during gameplay it's actually not that noticeable. Though it's also because the game uses it's own screenshot solution and not the PS3 screenshot function -> 200 kb compressed jpgs instead of 3 MB PNGs :/
Random story thoughts:
I didn't quite get why BB seems to have no clue about the Boss' reasoning. I listened to the Eva tapes that go deeper into the Boss' background and I have to assume that the speech of Eva that we hear in the MGS3 ending was retconned in the sense that BB receives it after the events of Peace Walker?
Though for the player the whole conflict/question about the Boss' motivation for doing what she did was still boring as we already know from playing MGS3...
I must admit that I only discovered the briefing materials for missions and the files very late in the game as you only have access to it in the mission start screen. So I'm going through that now and it gives some needed proper characterization and the background info is in part more interesting than the actual game.
I mean, I really dig the NASA stuff with the Boss etc. and I would wish that it actually came up in some lengthy cutscene ingame.
Character motivations and how the story/BB deals with them were often weird...
So Strangelove is fine with nuking MSF but not Cuba and helps BB? I guess it doesn't matter to her as she's just interested in the AI of her idol (but let's not hesitate destroying it, no no. And not like she was well aware they were doing some shady shit...), or maybe she just draws the line at potential global nuclear war... Still, joining the base you were preparing to nuke must be pretty awkward....
I also must have missed something because I don't recall why BB and Miller are so close in the first place, was them meeting /sharing hardship ever shown in these games?
Coldman's plan AKA the whole base crisis of the game: Let's built an AI-controlled mech (Peace Walker) as the perfect deterrent against nuclear war. Next, we pretend to nuke the US so that we can shoot that test nuke, only then the men in power will approve funding for more Peace Walkers.
All this based on the assumption that no one wants to have the heavy burden of nuclear retaliation. Cue the ending, in which (even w/o the president) EVERYONE is like "KILL THEM! If I die they die!!"
While dying, he still wants his wish fulfilled so while the new target remains Cuba, he feeds the pentagon wrong information that shows the US being targeted by hundreds of nukes from Russia.
Now he assumes that the US won't retaliate (see above, lol) but afterwards realize that they should have done so and need an infallible AI for the next time! ...what? Realizing it was false information should give the US the opposite idea actually, no? "Good thing we didn't accidentally nuke Russia eh? no? no one?"
The whole AI stuff is kinda neat but also way over the top with recreating the Boss by putting in all her mission results etc..(and while it's not a big deal I was still slightly annoyed because it just doesn't fit to the tech progression seen in the MGS universe...) Somewhat worried that they show an AI pod (which is btw invincible but still let's make it the boss encounter weak point) in the MGSV trailer. At least I get the reference now though!
Overall it just felt like a weak, brief story. I guess the optional dialogue in the menus help to improve characterization.
BUT BOY, WTF at hiding the actual ending behind doing more Extra OPs. I was so confused when the credits rolled because I knew from Ground Zeroes that shit still had to go down. Paz was still just the innocent 16 year old girl
I guess it's bad that I already spoiled myself on her twist, while on the other hand it's interesting to see that the story really makes an effort to blame all on Zadornov but there are still some hints that Paz has something going on.
So what I'm doing now in order to progress to the point of the story that's actually relevant for Ground Zeroes is (re-)playing these little missions (some are neat, others are lame) to pop up new main story quests THAT ARE ALL "whoopsie, Zadornov escaped again, can you find him in this map this time?". Now repeat is 5 times or so??? Really...?
Enough of that negativity though. Probably the thing I like the most about Peace Walker is the new base building game. I like that it makes total sense in the context of the story and I enjoy the micromanaging stuff. Just finished building my own Metal Gear ZEKE, too!
That's why I'm fully onboard on having it in MGSV, especially as it will be MUCH more elaborate. People say MGSV is basically just a next-gen Peace Walker, but from what I've seen I disagree a bit. It will take some elements of Peace Walker but integrates them into an actual MGS game.
IMO, Act II in MGS4 was the pinnacle of the MGS gameplay (before GZ although that one doesn't have all the usual gadgets and stuff to play around with). In particular I think the later section of that Act that is completely optional showed on a small scale what Kojima had in mind for the future of MGS. MGSV will be that (well, of course, it will be like GZ to be precise) but truly open world and we know from Ground Zeroes that it will also be the best-playing MGS game ever. That includes having all these movement options and not that weird simplified PW version of not being able to move in prone and having dead enemies simply disappear (you can't even hide the unconscious ones so you're kinda forced to fulton every soldier you come across...).
I hope that the narrative won't suffer. Obviously, it has to be more open and they will also pack in tons of extra OPs to fill the open world areas, but I simply hope it will be more fluid (find missions while you're in the area) than in Peace Walker with a more cohesive story telling
My MGS playstyle always has been like this though: New area -> fuck around, try new things, test weapons/gadgets, test the AI etc. while constantly restarting the area (with nothing changed/lost apart from the continue counter going up), then play until I managed a no-kill(nor stun if possible) no-alarm run. So that's kind of lost I guess in a way (that reminds me how I fucking hate that I have to restart whole missions in Peace Walker despite it having distinct areas...).
The last LTTP thread for PW was largely positive so I hope it's interesting to read a more negative experience But as I mentioned, I can acknowledge that it's still a pretty ok game. If you're in a similar situation and own PW HD but still need to finish it before MGSV, I would say do it! You may need a guide to not get frustrated with the boss-figths that are apparently designed for coop (I only played single player) and the game may take more time than you think if you get a taste for grinding stuff for your base - or simply to make the main missions easier for you. Because guess what, PW doesn't have different difficulty levels so it more or less depends on your gear and your motherbase development (after getting the Sneaking Suit the normal missions are too easy though). That also goes the other way around, no extreme mode with more guards and better AI like in previous games.
Get ready for the worst boss battles by far in MGS history. Shooting rockets at that red thing every time for 15 minutes while requesting ammo drops.
Sneaky, sneaky. At least camo works for the enemy snipers because at least I never had to care AT ALL about the camo index. Why is it even there?
Lastly, I wanted to mention that I will play Ground Zeroes again before MGSV hits. IIRC I unlocked all the missions but I want to gather all the stuff that will carry over into MGSV, do you guys have any info on what I have to collect/achieve?
I'm waiting for you, MGSV...
...YOU WILL FEEL ASHAMED OF YOUR WORDS & DEEDS!
Never change Kojima
Otherwise this an open spoiler thread
My history with this game:
This was the first canon (apart from that one Portable Ops game I guess) MGS title that I haven't played right after its release.
Well ok I also waited with Ground Zeroes because I refused to pay full price for it.
This little handheld gaming rant will explain my hesitation:
My first (first-hand) exposure to Peace Walker was the demo available for PSP. First of all, I was biased from the start because after buying a PSP I realized I despise mobile/handheld gaming.
I don't like the bits&pieces style and structure of handheld-focused games, the little screen, the shitty controls (including the limited input options on the PSP), the shittier graphics/performance, no surround sound. Just literally everything is a sub-par experience compared to my normal setup. The only advantage is that I can play on the go obviously but just like with books and movies I find no joy in experiencing something for 5 minutes e.g. in the bus to work. I need to get sucked up by the game world and I just don't care about the games that are structured to cater for this kind of play style.
Off to a good start with PW, right? You can imagine I was especially not happy that Kojima/Konami seemed to invest in an actual MGS game on a handheld. Their previous efforts regarding spin-offs like Portable Ops and Acid were easily ignorable. But this... I also remember people on Neogaf proclaiming Peace Walker to be really MGS5 (yeah, yeah, I know that old PW logo) and that it's better than MGS4 or even the best MGS game ever (thankfully this was usually followed by a rant about MGS4 or one of the other games so at least I already knew these people's opinions were just batshit crazy with poor taste and/or handheld fans /hyperbole).
ANYWAY - I played the demo (and watched some trailers) and didn't like it. Controls were shitty, I didn't like the direction they went with Big Boss/the story/style of the cutscenes (well, comic-panels. Even though the art is stylish), the simplified gameplay and playing a cinematic game on a handheld.
I still might have bought it on PSP if it were a continuation of the MGS story, but as it's a prequel I felt like I didn't miss out. Moreover, people said it doesn't really lead to Metal Gear 1 or how BB turned sour (at least not more than what the ending of MGS3 would suggest).
HOWEVER! Things were looking up a few years ago when I bought the MGS HD collector's edition that also included a 1080p version of Peace Walker for the PS3. Finally I could play it on the big screen with a gamepad, right? Well, TBH having also MGS2 and MGS3 on the same disc just emphasized the failings of Peace Walker as a "true" MGS game. Compared directly, it still looks worse than those oldass games and the changed and simplified gameplay becomes so much more obvious. Then there is the structure of the story with everything cut into bit-sized missions ("To be continued in the next mission" FUCK THIS).
Maybe it's unfair of me to expect MGS2/3/4 levels of awesomeness from this, but let me have my little out-of-spite-reaction to all the people advertising this as MGS5
btw, to pretty up my post I'm including some screenshots I took with the ingame camera
Don't look up screenshots from the jungle in MGS3 HD or the level of interaction with the environment and enemies
>>>That being said - in a vacuum it's still a pretty ok game and I'm having at least some fun with it. As an MGS game, eh, not so much. Even the story kinda sucks for a MGS game. I admit that the game is probably much more fun in coop with all the crazy two-person cardboard tank things etc. but that's just not how I want to play through a sp campaign for the first time<<<
I started this playthrough in 2012 but I got fed up with the mission structure and overall lame-ness (~5 h in, I got until the tank battle) and also had other stuff to play. After the release of Ground Zeroes I wanted to give it another try but I just couldn't wait, which kinda sucks in retrospect.
But, in preparation for MGSV and the fact that even in the trailer some PW references like AI pod are popping up, I plugged the PS3 back in and continued my original playthough last week!
Mh, IQ could have been a bit better all things considered but during gameplay it's actually not that noticeable. Though it's also because the game uses it's own screenshot solution and not the PS3 screenshot function -> 200 kb compressed jpgs instead of 3 MB PNGs :/
Random story thoughts:
I didn't quite get why BB seems to have no clue about the Boss' reasoning. I listened to the Eva tapes that go deeper into the Boss' background and I have to assume that the speech of Eva that we hear in the MGS3 ending was retconned in the sense that BB receives it after the events of Peace Walker?
Though for the player the whole conflict/question about the Boss' motivation for doing what she did was still boring as we already know from playing MGS3...
I must admit that I only discovered the briefing materials for missions and the files very late in the game as you only have access to it in the mission start screen. So I'm going through that now and it gives some needed proper characterization and the background info is in part more interesting than the actual game.
I mean, I really dig the NASA stuff with the Boss etc. and I would wish that it actually came up in some lengthy cutscene ingame.
Character motivations and how the story/BB deals with them were often weird...
So Strangelove is fine with nuking MSF but not Cuba and helps BB? I guess it doesn't matter to her as she's just interested in the AI of her idol (but let's not hesitate destroying it, no no. And not like she was well aware they were doing some shady shit...), or maybe she just draws the line at potential global nuclear war... Still, joining the base you were preparing to nuke must be pretty awkward....
I also must have missed something because I don't recall why BB and Miller are so close in the first place, was them meeting /sharing hardship ever shown in these games?
Coldman's plan AKA the whole base crisis of the game: Let's built an AI-controlled mech (Peace Walker) as the perfect deterrent against nuclear war. Next, we pretend to nuke the US so that we can shoot that test nuke, only then the men in power will approve funding for more Peace Walkers.
All this based on the assumption that no one wants to have the heavy burden of nuclear retaliation. Cue the ending, in which (even w/o the president) EVERYONE is like "KILL THEM! If I die they die!!"
While dying, he still wants his wish fulfilled so while the new target remains Cuba, he feeds the pentagon wrong information that shows the US being targeted by hundreds of nukes from Russia.
Now he assumes that the US won't retaliate (see above, lol) but afterwards realize that they should have done so and need an infallible AI for the next time! ...what? Realizing it was false information should give the US the opposite idea actually, no? "Good thing we didn't accidentally nuke Russia eh? no? no one?"
The whole AI stuff is kinda neat but also way over the top with recreating the Boss by putting in all her mission results etc..(and while it's not a big deal I was still slightly annoyed because it just doesn't fit to the tech progression seen in the MGS universe...) Somewhat worried that they show an AI pod (which is btw invincible but still let's make it the boss encounter weak point) in the MGSV trailer. At least I get the reference now though!
Overall it just felt like a weak, brief story. I guess the optional dialogue in the menus help to improve characterization.
BUT BOY, WTF at hiding the actual ending behind doing more Extra OPs. I was so confused when the credits rolled because I knew from Ground Zeroes that shit still had to go down. Paz was still just the innocent 16 year old girl
who sleeps with an old man i a pink cardboard box
So what I'm doing now in order to progress to the point of the story that's actually relevant for Ground Zeroes is (re-)playing these little missions (some are neat, others are lame) to pop up new main story quests THAT ARE ALL "whoopsie, Zadornov escaped again, can you find him in this map this time?". Now repeat is 5 times or so??? Really...?
Enough of that negativity though. Probably the thing I like the most about Peace Walker is the new base building game. I like that it makes total sense in the context of the story and I enjoy the micromanaging stuff. Just finished building my own Metal Gear ZEKE, too!
That's why I'm fully onboard on having it in MGSV, especially as it will be MUCH more elaborate. People say MGSV is basically just a next-gen Peace Walker, but from what I've seen I disagree a bit. It will take some elements of Peace Walker but integrates them into an actual MGS game.
IMO, Act II in MGS4 was the pinnacle of the MGS gameplay (before GZ although that one doesn't have all the usual gadgets and stuff to play around with). In particular I think the later section of that Act that is completely optional showed on a small scale what Kojima had in mind for the future of MGS. MGSV will be that (well, of course, it will be like GZ to be precise) but truly open world and we know from Ground Zeroes that it will also be the best-playing MGS game ever. That includes having all these movement options and not that weird simplified PW version of not being able to move in prone and having dead enemies simply disappear (you can't even hide the unconscious ones so you're kinda forced to fulton every soldier you come across...).
I hope that the narrative won't suffer. Obviously, it has to be more open and they will also pack in tons of extra OPs to fill the open world areas, but I simply hope it will be more fluid (find missions while you're in the area) than in Peace Walker with a more cohesive story telling
My MGS playstyle always has been like this though: New area -> fuck around, try new things, test weapons/gadgets, test the AI etc. while constantly restarting the area (with nothing changed/lost apart from the continue counter going up), then play until I managed a no-kill(nor stun if possible) no-alarm run. So that's kind of lost I guess in a way (that reminds me how I fucking hate that I have to restart whole missions in Peace Walker despite it having distinct areas...).
The last LTTP thread for PW was largely positive so I hope it's interesting to read a more negative experience
But as I mentioned, I can acknowledge that it's still a pretty ok game. If you're in a similar situation and own PW HD but still need to finish it before MGSV, I would say do it! You may need a guide to not get frustrated with the boss-figths that are apparently designed for coop (I only played single player) and the game may take more time than you think if you get a taste for grinding stuff for your base - or simply to make the main missions easier for you. Because guess what, PW doesn't have different difficulty levels so it more or less depends on your gear and your motherbase development (after getting the Sneaking Suit the normal missions are too easy though). That also goes the other way around, no extreme mode with more guards and better AI like in previous games.
Get ready for the worst boss battles by far in MGS history. Shooting rockets at that red thing every time for 15 minutes while requesting ammo drops.
Sneaky, sneaky. At least camo works for the enemy snipers because at least I never had to care AT ALL about the camo index. Why is it even there?
Lastly, I wanted to mention that I will play Ground Zeroes again before MGSV hits. IIRC I unlocked all the missions but I want to gather all the stuff that will carry over into MGSV, do you guys have any info on what I have to collect/achieve?
I'm waiting for you, MGSV...
...YOU WILL FEEL ASHAMED OF YOUR WORDS & DEEDS!
Never change Kojima
