Support NeoGAF

[L Thammy]

Okay, so these seem to be the sturdiest theories as far as I'm aware.

- The NX is a set of platforms (at least handheld + home console) with compatible software.
- The NX will use cards for physical game sales, and the cards will be compatible with all NX forms.
- The NX home console will use a touchscreen controller to match the NX handheld's touchscreen.
- The NX will have power greater than the Wii U but less than the PS4.

If we put all of these theories together, how plausible is it that we can get this, and how plausible is it that we can get it at a reasonable price?

 

[Neoxon]

Okay, so these seem to be the sturdiest theories as far as I'm aware.

- The NX is a set of platforms (at least handheld + home console) with compatible software.
- The NX will use cards for physical game sales, and the cards will be compatible with all NX forms.
- The NX home console will use a touchscreen controller to match the NX handheld's touchscreen.
- The NX will have power greater than the Wii U but less than the PS4.

If we put all of these theories together, how plausible is it that we can get this, and how plausible is it that we can get it at a reasonable price?

That depends on how expensive the theorized GamePad for the NX Console is.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

Okay, so these seem to be the sturdiest theories as far as I'm aware.

- The NX is a set of platforms (at least handheld + home console) with compatible software.
- The NX will use cards for physical game sales, and the cards will be compatible with all NX forms.
- The NX home console will use a touchscreen controller to match the NX handheld's touchscreen.
- The NX will have power greater than the Wii U but less than the PS4.

If we put all of these theories together, how plausible is it that we can get this, and how plausible is it that we can get it at a reasonable price?

Everything seems spot on - except for this specific portion of the patent, I think the NX console will use a standard controller, but will allow the hand held to be used for streaming purposes or as an enhanced controller, hence that may be what the picture is suggesting.

 

[Snakeyes]

I don't think that Nintendo should compete to have the Third Party Games of PS4/One. Because people will buy them on PS4One anyway. They should however make even more efforts to have some exclusive Third Party games specifically for their consoles, like SMT x FE, Sonic, Bayonetta, a Capcom Fighter, a Square-Enix RPG etc... This adds value to the system.

Then they'll fail in the eyes of the mass market from the start. The aim should always be to offer a product that can be your primary machine, because most people don't buy multiple consoles.

 

[4Tran]

People who actually care about power (beyond the requisite console warring digital foundry agenda posting) aren't gaming on consoles.

Nope. The biggest reason people upgrade from one console generation to the next is for the upgrade in power.

Depends on what you call a "Nintendo fan." I'd reckon any owner of prevous gen Nintendo console is a one-time Nintendo fan. If they could just win some of them back, they'd be in the game. Nowhere near all their fans are currently on Wii U.

What will the NX have that the Wii U doesn't that will bring in all the old fans then?

 

[StevieP]

Nope. The biggest reason people upgrade from one console generation to the next is for the upgrade in power.


What will the NX have that the Wii U doesn't that will bring in all the old fans then?

You're confusing yourself and gaffers like us with the mass market. People follow software that they want and are willing to spend x dollars to obtain, not hardware.

People who actually care about the power of their devices will spend the money to game on the platform that actually offers that ability.

 

[L Thammy]

Wasn't the Vita TV made using parts of unsold Vitas? I recall some discussion about how it, at least. I imagine that the cost of an Gamepad-style NX controller could be kept down similarly, using parts of unsold Gamepads.

 

[blu]

What will the NX have that the Wii U doesn't that will bring in all the old fans then?

TFLOPS

Spoiler

titles

 

[4Tran]

That kind of implies that anyone not gaming on PS4/XBO are non-gamers.

Not really. The majority of console owners are going to be buying in several years after a console is released. However, if they're even inclined towards a Nintendo console, they won't be looking at the NX until 2019-2020.

That doesn't ring true. With the common OS idea the console will get mpre software and each piece of software will sell more - already a win. Competing with competitors is pointless. They need to sell the console on nintendo properties and on exclusively 'console' experiences, largely from jp decelopers. In other words try to separate yourself from the competition. Not with gimmicks or power, but focusing on your strengths. Wii sales figures won't be achieved agsin, but a solid niche is well within reach because they're offering something f ex steam owners won't get.

The lack of software doesn't seem to be the reason why the Wii U didn't sell. Having a unified development process will help Nintendo to make games but it doesn't mean a whole lot for customers.

 

[DeaviL]

If Nintendo wants the console & handheld to be the same platform with the same architecture & OS, the. ARM is the best choice. x86 isn't impossible on handhelds, it's just not efficient. The Japanese won't care as long as the NX Console is supported by Epic for UE4.

I'm pretty sure the Asus Zenfone 2 is x86.
Cheapest version of that phone is $199.
(They recently hacked one to run Win 7)

 

[4Tran]

You're confusing yourself and gaffers like us with the mass market. People follow software that they want and are willing to spend x dollars to obtain, not hardware.

I think that this is an incorrect assumption. There are lots of factors that go into an individual's decision to buy a console, and while the available software is a factor, it's not necessarily a strong enough factor to overcome all the others. Meanwhile, hardware capabilities and other features are also important - and depending on the individual, can be more important than the software.

The first question that any console manufacturer needs to answer is the question from a potential customer: "Why should I buy this console?" If the only answer is "To play Nintendo games," then in what way is the NX better off than the Wii U?

 

[Fourth Storm]

Alright, here's a really out there idea for the handheld. It would be dual screened clamshell design again basically. Bottom half, however, is Sharp Free Form design with the buttons and sticks in a Wii U esque config right within the screen, so you you've got little indicators and notifications along the outside of the controller basically. Maybe that screen does have a "donut hole" in the middle but maybe squarish. What's inside? Another screen w/ the traditional DS resistive touch input (so they can continue doing art-based features w/out an expensive stylus). But maybe the touch panel is upgraded to one of Fujitsu's multitouch.

Top half is a traditional modern display with an ultrathin bezel (maybe even another Free Form just for that). No buttons and somewhere between 540p and 720p capacitive touch screen. Have a hinge design comparable to some of those convertable notebook/tablets where the screen can fold all the way around so that the side with the traditional controls is on the back and accessible even.

Price it at $229, but offer a $30 discount to owners of previous consoles or something using the new loyalty program.

 

[Neoxon]

Then they'll fail in the eyes of the mass market from the start. The aim should always be to offer a product that can be your primary machine, because most people don't buy multiple consoles.

Hard to do that when Nintendo burned all of their western third party bridges.

 

[blu]

I'm pretty sure the Asus Zenfone 2 is x86.
Cheapest version of that phone is $199.
(They recently hacked one to run Win 7)

Intel's Silvermonts turboboost really well. That's pretty much all there is to them, though - their sustained performance is not any better than similar ARM offerings, which don't have to throttle as much to keep similarly low TDPs. Bottomline being, turboboost and throttling =/= console use-cases.

 

[DeaviL]

Intel's Silvermonts turboboost really well. That's pretty much all there is to them, though - their sustained performance is not any better than similar ARM offerings, which don't have to throttle as much to keep similarly low TDPs. Bottomline being, turboboost and throttling =/= console use-cases.

Isn't "sustained performance" exactly what a phone does?
Reviews seem to say that these phones last quite a while.

 

[blu]

Isn't "sustained performance" exactly what a phone does?
Reviews seem to say that these phones last quite a while.

No. Phones normally do 'boost for a few seconds, then throttle, throttle, throttle'. And did reviews measure their bettery performance exclusively under game loads?

We're speaking here of 'SDP' (scenario design point - what Intel quotes when they don't dare show the full TDP) of 2.2W (for the smaller Silvermonts). I don't recall what the full-monty TDP was, but it's at the very least 4W, and likely more. For 4h of full-load play, you'd need 4 * 4 = 16Wh battery. At 3.7V li-ion, that's a 4.32Ah battery - that's tablet territory (e.g. vita has a 2.2Ah battery). And I'm being optimistic with the TDP.

 

[Placiibo]

Okay, so these seem to be the sturdiest theories as far as I'm aware.

- The NX is a set of platforms (at least handheld + home console) with compatible software.
- The NX will use cards for physical game sales, and the cards will be compatible with all NX forms.
- The NX home console will use a touchscreen controller to match the NX handheld's touchscreen.
- The NX will have power greater than the Wii U but less than the PS4.

If we put all of these theories together, how plausible is it that we can get this, and how plausible is it that we can get it at a reasonable price?

No there needs to be a hook, a gimmick. I don't believe their hook is '1 platform, multiple hardware options'. They think they are going to sell a lot. Nothing on that list says its going to sell a lot to me.

We're missing something...

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

Then they'll fail in the eyes of the mass market from the start. The aim should always be to offer a product that can be your primary machine, because most people don't buy multiple consoles.

Yeah, looking at Microsoft mobile phone platform it didn't serve them well. The Wii did well because of third-party support that was great, although not ideal for a gamer like myself and many, which from perspective had to much shovelware.

 

[Snakeyes]

Hard to do that when Nintendo burned all of their western third party bridges.

It's either that, keep swinging for the fences hoping for another Wii-like miracle or settling for Gamecube numbers at best for the home console variants of NX.

 

[Fourth Storm]

What will the NX have that the Wii U doesn't that will bring in all the old fans then?

A modern and responsive user interface and login/membership service. Acceptable hardware and, most importantly, innovative software. The key is making software output easier so that creativity shines over the hurdles of creating and releasing a game. Super Mario Maker is just the beginning, but held back by the Wii U's infrastructure and out of style hardware.

 

[Neoxon]

No there needs to be a hook, a gimmick. I don't believe their hook is '1 platform, multiple hardware options'. They think they are going to sell a lot. Nothing on that list says its going to sell a lot to me.

We're missing something...

But a gimmick would cause a complication in a shared platform.

A modern and responsive user interface and login/membership service. Acceptable hardware and, most importantly, innovative software. The key is making software output easier so that creativity shines over the hurdles of creating and releasing a game. Super Mario Maker is just the beginning, but held back by the Wii U's infrastructure and out of style hardware.

In what way did the Wii U hold Super Mario Maker back?

 

[InsaneZero]

What will the NX have that the Wii U doesn't that will bring in all the old fans then?

Discounting Pokemon and all of the Japanese 3rd party support for a new handheld, having only one platform to deal with will probably do wonders for their development pipeline.

 

[POWERSPHERE]

What will the NX have that the Wii U doesn't that will bring in all the old fans then?

People discussing this like we have actual information is cute as heck.

 

[DeaviL]

No. Phones normally do 'boost for a few seconds, then throttle, throttle, throttle'. And did reviews measure their bettery performance exclusively under game loads?

We're speaking here of 'SDP' (scenario design point - what Intel quotes when they don't dare show the full TDP) of 2.2W (for the smaller Silvermonts). I don't recall what the full-monty TDP was, but it's at the very least 4W, and likely more. For 4h of full-load play, you'd need 4 * 4 = 16Wh battery. At 3.7V li-ion, that's a 4.32Ah battery - that's tablet territory (e.g. vita has a 2.2Ah battery). And I'm being optimistic with the TDP.

Looked it up, It has a 3,000 mAh Battery and gets 3,5 hours when running a non-stop benchmark utility.

 

[bomma_man]

You're confusing yourself and gaffers like us with the mass market. People follow software that they want and are willing to spend x dollars to obtain, not hardware.

People who actually care about the power of their devices will spend the money to game on the platform that actually offers that ability.

I used to think that but the ps4/xbone have thrown me for a loop. The exclusives lineup on those consoles is still fairly anaemic, and the majority of big franchises are still coming out on last gen consoles. Neither is there a non gaming feature like DVD or blu ray to pull people in, or a game changing gimmick like motion control. Graphics are the only distinguishing feature imo.

 

[Discomurf]

No there needs to be a hook, a gimmick. I don't believe their hook is '1 platform, multiple hardware options'. They think they are going to sell a lot. Nothing on that list says its going to sell a lot to me.

We're missing something...

Outside of the new platform approach, I'm thinking the 'hook' will be the shape of the screen(s).

 

[Rocky]

Price it at $229, but offer a $30 discount to owners of previous consoles or something using the new loyalty program.

Sorry, but why should they offer anything to owners of previous consoles? Those owners weren't forced to buy those consoles. I have had a Wii U since launch and I expect no compensation if I buy their next console. I'm not even that big of a Nintendo fan anymore but even if I was I STILL wouldn't expect anything.

 

[L Thammy]

What software did PS4 have at launch? It had the hardware make no mistake about it. People do want software but let me say this... if Nintendo think they can get away with graphics that are not comparable and games that can't run on their machine they are... bat shit as the saying goes.

An important thing to bear in mind when discussing the PS4's success is its marketing focus. I don't just mean advertisement. The system was designed with core gamers in mind and only core gamers. Sony did what they could to appeal to that one audience, ended up with product that was attractive to that one audience, then sold it as a system for that audience.

Meanwhile, Nintendo and Microsoft were both trying to capture casual and core consumers at the same time. They both tried to offer a system that was both a game device and a multimedia device. The result was that the features that were oriented at the casual market just aren't enough to pull them away from their phones, and the features that were oriented at the core market were not as desirable as the more focused platform Sony offered.

 

[4Tran]

Discounting Pokemon and all of the Japanese 3rd party support for a new handheld, having only one platform to deal with will probably do wonders for their development pipeline.

A lot of Nintendo fans already think that the Wii U has an amazing games library, but that console sell? If it didn't, then why should we think that software is going to be some sort of magic bullet?

People discussing this like we have actual information is cute as heck.

Actual information will change how we discuss the NX, but it will do nothing to change Nintendo's business challenges.

 

[Neoxon]

An important thing to bear in mind when discussing the PS4's success is its marketing focus. I don't just mean advertisement. The system was designed with core gamers in mind and only core gamers. Sony did what they could to appeal to that one audience, ended up with product that was attractive to that one audience, then sold it as a system for that audience.

Meanwhile, Nintendo and Microsoft were both trying to capture casual and core consumers at the same time. They both tried to offer a system that was both a game device and a multimedia device. The result was that the features that were oriented at the casual market just aren't enough to pull them away from their phones, and the features that were oriented at the core market were not as desirable as the more focused platform Sony offered.

But said audience is already locked down to the PS4. Nintendo would be going on a suicide mission if they aimed at getting said core audience.

 

[10k]

What will the NX have that the Wii U doesn't that will bring in all the old fans then?

Nintendo themed dildos with NFC functionality.

We gonna see if Kirby consumes anything now.

 

[L Thammy]

But said audience is already locked down to the PS4. Nintendo would be going on a suicide mission if they aimed at getting said core audience.

Then they can aim entirely at a different audience. The point isn't the core audience specifically, but aiming at one group and seeking to making the best offering possible to them, rather than wasting their time with half-hearted efforts and a totally different set of half-hearted efforts that are meant for someone else. The assumption we saw from Nintendo during the Wii era and beyond is that casual gamers can be converted into core gamers. But that doesn't work. They don't play games for the same reasons. They don't want the same things. What it takes to please one group is different than what it takes to please the other, and you may have to make the product a worse sell for one group in order to appeal to another.

As it stands, if I'm a casual consumer, mobile is way better for me than the Wii U is, so why bother with the Wii U? If I'm a core gamer, the PS4 is way better for me than the Wii U is, so why bother with the Wii U? At least with the Xbox One, what they offered to the core audience was good enough that they could shift their focus entirely to them and end up with an appealing product.

 

[Pinky]

Nintendo themed dildos with NFC functionality.

We gonna see if Kirby consumes anything now.

So, NXXX?

 

[10k]

So, NXXX?

Yup. Short NX to the power of 3. Which is NX Cubed. Which translates to the NXCube. But it will play games. GameCube 2 confirmed!

 

[FDBK]

We're missing something...

My guess is it's going to be motion control.

I think it might be back as some kind of device resembling MS's kinect, as something like an all-encompassing, general-purpose input device. It might also be sold as "a VR device" to capture people's minds (a la Blast Processing), though certainly meant as a much more robust motion control at the fundamental level.

 

[Neoxon]

My guess is it's going to be motion control.

I think it might be back as some kind of device resembling MS's kinect, as something like an all-encompassing, general-purpose input device. It might also be sold as "a VR device" to capture people's minds, though certainly meant as a much more robust motion control at the fundamental level.

Then how would such a gimmick work on the NX Handheld?

 

[Oersted]

Tamaki posted something about one of his NX posts.

In short, a bunch of nothing.

 

[thisisvlad]

But a gimmick would cause a complication in a shared platform.

Having spent considerable time reading over Iwata's thoughts during the various investor meetings, I'm of the perspective that Nintendo often has 'gimmicky' ideas that they internally test and choose some combination of them for public consumption. Traditionally, they've been forced to try out new ideas every console generation, and thus have to create hardware (and associated architectures) around this gimmick.

Moving forward, however, they'll be able to leverage their scalable architecture to quickly spin up ideas, launch them publically, and see how well they fare. Since every console will have (generally) the same library of games, they don't have to worry too much about "starting from 0" in terms of support. So, for example, maybe the "VR hardware" will have a separate box in the NX family and some exclusives that take advantage of the VR gimmick, while simultaneously offering the majority of the games on the other NX hardware.

Think of it as having 2-tiers of games, those that are cross-NX and those that are NX-specific. 80% will be cross all NX products and 20% will be exclusive to each.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

You're confusing yourself and gaffers like us with the mass market. People follow software that they want and are willing to spend x dollars to obtain,

People who actually care about the power of their devices will spend the money to game on the platform that actually offers that ability.

That's not true. People who are interested in consoles still care about power, particularly early adopters. Those sub-par Batman and Mass Effect ports really hurt them with people who saw it as a step down from the 360 they were already tired of.

 

[Retromelon]

In short, a bunch of nothing.

I choose to interpret this as meaning the nx console will be mildly weaker than the xbox one with the savings funneled into financing something wacky with the controller, which i feel will probably have a screen again, but might be redesigned to be more ergonomic.
I don't want things to be this way but this is what i feel is likely. And i'll still buy it

 

[Pinky]

Yup. Short NX to the power of 3. Which is NX Cubed. Which translates to the NXCube. But it will play games. GameCube 2 confirmed!

We're getting BMX XXX 2 aren't we??? Woot woot!!

 

[Father_Brain]

Depends on what you call a "Nintendo fan." I'd reckon any owner of prevous gen Nintendo console is a one-time Nintendo fan. If they could just win some of them back, they'd be in the game. Nowhere near all their fans are currently on Wii U.

Well, we'll see. I think the Nintendo fanbase, as defined by the total audience willing to buy hardware just (or at least primarily) to play first-party Nintendo software, actually is in decline and has been for a while; even given the enormous mistakes made that are specific to Wii U, I believe it'd be selling better than it is if their software were still compelling to the mass market.

 

[QaaQer]

A modern and responsive user interface and login/membership service. Acceptable hardware and, most importantly, innovative software. The key is making software output easier so that creativity shines over the hurdles of creating and releasing a game. Super Mario Maker is just the beginning, but held back by the Wii U's infrastructure and out of style hardware.

?

It is the one truly great piece of software only possible on the Wii u.

 

[Isayas]

I don't understand the power argument. I have a Wii U, and honestly, this console is powerful enough to make very fun and pretty games for HD TVs.

As Nintendo is an enterprise that tries to be profitable from day-one, I think that the power of their next console will be moderate. And this is fine by me.

I don't think that Nintendo should compete to have the Third Party Games of PS4/One. Because people will buy them on PS4One anyway. They should however make even more efforts to have some exclusive Third Party games specifically for their consoles, like SMT x FE, Sonic, Bayonetta, a Capcom Fighter, a Square-Enix RPG etc... This adds value to the system.

It does because the Wii U is an 8th gen console. You just want to justify your purchase of the NX. This is why whenever company does stupid shit we have people like you and the peanut gallery saying "I never cared such and such...." It's annoying and you're being dishonest but GAF THOUGH. If it was a handheld It would make sense but a console? UNACCEPTABLE.

 

[Neoxon]

It does because the Wii U is an 8th gen console. You just want to justify your purchase of the NX. This is why whenever company does stupid shit we have people like you and the peanut gallery saying "I never cared such and such...." It's annoying and you're being dishonest but GAF THOUGH. If it was a handheld It would make sense but a console? UNACCEPTABLE.

The popular theory is that the NX is both. Though not in the "hybrid that serves as both a console & handheld" way, but rather the "one platform with console & handheld SKUs" way.

 

[Isayas]

The popular theory is that the NX is both. Though not in the "hybrid that serves as both a console & handheld" way, but rather the "one platform with console & handheld SKUs" way.

I hope it is. I just want the console version to be way more powerful than the PS4 and Xbox One. As a matter of fact, they should have stuck it out with the Wii U and learn from their mistakes instead of rushing out the NX but whatever.

 

[atbigelow]

I hope it is. I just want the console version to be way more powerful than the PS4 and Xbox One. As a matter of fact, they should have stuck it out with the Wii U and learn from their mistakes instead of rushing out the NX but whatever.

I do not see the initial NX console being more powerful than the PS4 or XBO. However, if their platform is as flexible as some of us hope, they can launch a second NX console around the time the PS5 or next XBox arrive. Not having to start their install base over from scratch is incredibly appealing. Just like when you buy a new iPad you can still play your old iPad games. There just happen to also be new iPad games now possible.

Someone mentioned earlier the theory that having a flexible platform will let Nintendo experiment far more than they had before. As stated, Nintendo churns through a lot of R&D money finding interesting hardware combinations. Having NX systems 80% compatible with existing libraries, with 20% "unique" stuff, would be quite interesting.

Nintendo has seen quite impactfully with the Wii U that people want to see tangible and understandable benefits to upgrading. I run with a pretty well informed pack of people, and I still had a large number ask if the Wii U was just the gamepad attached to the old Wii. That kind of confusion is deadly.

But also, could be a good lesson. If you continually make your software library forward compatible, the gamepad COULD have been just an attachment for an NX console. And when it flopped, the experiment is buried and they can move on to the next one.

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

I do not see the initial NX console being more powerful than the PS4 or XBO.

If the NX is a 2017 launch, that's four years after the PS4 and XBO, and those weren't exactly bleeding edge technology at launch, either. It shouldn't be too hard to outdo those systems, unless they're purposefully holding themselves back with crazy backwards compatability based bottlenecks.

 

[StevieP]

I hope it is. I just want the console version to be way more powerful than the PS4 and Xbox One. As a matter of fact, they should have stuck it out with the Wii U and learn from their mistakes instead of rushing out the NX but whatever.

I hear 5/600 dollar consoles have been extremely popular throughout history

As has been mentioned countless times already, Nintendo doesn't have access to some magical technology that sony and Microsoft can only dream of that's more powerful and yet cheaper on similar process nodes.

 

[atbigelow]

If the NX is a 2017 launch, that's four years after the PS4 and XBO, and those weren't exactly bleeding edge technology at launch, either. It shouldn't be too hard to outdo those systems, unless they're purposefully holding themselves back with crazy backwards compatability based bottlenecks.

They also don't want to match the PS4 or XBO price points.