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[gatti-man]

Pretty much no one looks good here. Marty definitely comes out looking the best for sure though.

I don't see it that way but maybe I'm misinformed? All activision did was not like his work and changed the music and Marty freaked and tried to rile up the Internet. He also threatened staff and tried to subvert the release of a trailer which is advertisement which is what Activision is supposed to be responsible for.

Then when he returns from vacation he is still pissed and doesn't work hard and gets fired essentially. Bungies beef with Marty was that Marty was elevating his music over the entire success of the game and his actions pretty much Show that to me.

He deserves his stock and I'm glad he got it but if the court documents are true Marty was rightfully terminated. Seems like the court got it right.

 

[SmartWaffles]

Not sure if Destiny is bigger than Halo actually. Halo 3 sold well over 10 million copies. Its entirely possible Destiny has as well but we have no official numbers on that

Activision is a fan of telling everyone how many copies of their games sold, but Destiny is a jarring exception, that speaks for a lot.

 

[Crimson Kopite]

People siding with Marty? Did we read the same piece of news?

Marty is a fine guy I'm sure but this article made him sound like a paranoid egomaniac. AND did the voice directing? The voice acting in this game was, let's say, "very poorly" directed.

 

[Walpurgis]

I don't see it that way but maybe I'm misinformed? All activision did was not like his work and changed the music and Marty freaked and tried to rile up the Internet. He also threatened staff and tried to subvert the release of a trailer which is advertisement which is what Activision is supposed to be responsible for.

Then when he returns from vacation he is still pissed and doesn't work hard and gets fired essentially. Bungies beef with Marty was that Marty was elevating his music over the entire success of the game and his actions pretty much Show that to me.

He deserves his stock and I'm glad he got it but if the court documents are true Marty was rightfully terminated. Seems like the court got it right.

His music is already elevated above that piece of shit game. Go Marty.

 

[Thoraxes]

Just finished the article, and man, that is a fucking ride.

Holy shit.

 

[gatti-man]

His music is already elevated above that piece of shit game. Go Marty.

Nope.

People siding with Marty? Did we read the same piece of news?

Marty is a fine guy I'm sure but this article made him sound like a paranoid egomaniac. AND did the voice directing? The voice acting in this game was, let's say, "very poorly" directed.

Agreed the voice direction is God aweful. At first I didn't mind it but as soon as I was able to mute the music the terrible and flat voice acting shines through brightly.

 

[Lothars]

His music is already elevated above that piece of shit game. Go Marty.

Both were the in the wrong but Marty was far from innocent in this.

 

[neogaffer1]

Was.

is that no longer the case?

 

[Ovek]

I don't see it that way but maybe I'm misinformed? All activision did was not like his work and changed the music and Marty freaked and tried to rile up the Internet. He also threatened staff and tried to subvert the release of a trailer which is advertisement which is what Activision is supposed to be responsible for.

Then when he returns from vacation he is still pissed and doesn't work hard and gets fired essentially. Bungies beef with Marty was that Marty was elevating his music over the entire success of the game and his actions pretty much Show that to me.

He deserves his stock and I'm glad he got it but if the court documents are true Marty was rightfully terminated. Seems like the court got it right.

That's how I read it, he sounds like a complete arse that deserved to be fired.

 

[HiredN00bs]

I think people are responding pretty hyperbolically to this story. There are very rarely good guys and bad guys in these types of situations. These are complex relationships with competing interests and this was a bad turnout for everyone, from what the story gathers.

The music in the base game isn't the sole work of Marty, nor was the music in the Bungie-made Halo games, on which Mike Salvatori was always listed as co-composer (Salvatori still works at Bungie).

It sounds like Marty's concerns about Activision's encroachments got the better of him and began to affect his morale. This is a sad story for Bungie, Marty, and the fans and it always has been.

 

[Sagroth]

I have mixed feelings about this.

I'm glad Marty got paid what he was owed. What Bungie and Activision tried to pull with his stock shares and back pay was bad form.

However, if the allegations made about Marty's behavior is true(and it appears that there is indeed some truth to it), then I have to admit that what he did was rather unprofessional.

And as expected, the information revealed here does hint towards the Bungie/Activision relationship being bad for the former without outright confirming suspicions.

I suspect this to be bad PR for Bungie/Activision/Destiny, but not necessarily anything worse than they've already endured. The series is already a sales success, after all.

What interests me most at this point(having dropped Destiny long ago with no intent to come back) is what is going to happen now that Marty is back in on board meetings. Will he try and be disruptive? Will Bungie try desperately to buy off his stock?

 

[matt05891]

I miss old bungie. With their hilariously irregular podcast where shishka(later luke),Brian, Frankie and Marty would talk halo for a few minutes then bitch about not having bagel dogs while having a few brewskies. Sometimes have a random employees visit and share their life and what they do at bungie as well as pretend to be sports analyst's in what they called the "NFL minute" which turned into the "NFL half hour". Man do I miss that era.

 

[Dan]

That article seems pretty sloppy. Has anyone else written about what the ruling reveals?

 

[SenjutsuSage]

The leaks of the people who played the version with the original story (I think two separate beta testers) said it wasn't a very good game. That leak accurately described large parts of the game that weren't public knowledge and was posted on the internet before the game came out. It seems likely enough to me that the game just got such poor reviews in play testing that Activision delayed the game and told bungie to re-tool it.

The guys at penny arcade said the same thing - they had played a pre alpha version of the game and the final one was much better.

Even so, I still expected Destiny to have a big epic story based focus with all kinds of major cutscene events and more interesting characters along the lines of Halo in addition to the openworld RPG type elements. I was expecting openworld Mass Effect FPS just without the chat wheel and with co-operative play. The initial game may not have been good, but then I feel the final game, even if enjoyed by many, simply wasn't what was being promised initially.

 

[Lord Panda]

I think people are responding pretty hyperbolically to this story. There are very rarely good guys and bad guys in these types of situations. These are complex relationships with competing interests and this was a bad turnout for everyone, from what the story gathers.

The music in the base game isn't the sole work of Marty, nor was the music in the Bungie-made Halo games, on which Mike Salvatori was always listed as co-composer (Salvatori still works at Bungie).

It sounds like Marty's concerns about Activision's encroachments got the better of him and began to affect his morale. This is a sad story for Bungie, Marty, and the fans and it always has been.

Agreed.

 

[Crimson Kopite]

I miss old bungie. With their hilariously irregular podcast where shishka(later luke),Brian, Frankie and Marty would talk halo for a few minutes then bitch about not having bagel dogs while having a few brewskies. Sometimes have a random employees visit and share their life and what they do at bungie as well as pretend to be sports analyst's in what they called the "NFL minute" which turned into the "NFL half hour". Man do I miss that era.

But now it would be deej on that podcast so mayyyyybe we're alright without it.

 

[gatti-man]

Even so, I still expected Destiny to have a big epic story based focus with all kinds of major cutscene events and more interesting characters along the lines of Halo in addition to the openworld RPG type elements. I was expecting openworld Mass Effect FPS just without the chat wheel and with co-operative play. The initial game may not have been good, but then I feel the final game, even if enjoyed by many, simply wasn't what was being promised initially.

We must have played a different halo.

 

[Interficium]

You can really tell who read the entire article ITT.

 

[TheXbox]

Can't believe Music of the Spheres is the root of all this. I want to hear it so fucking bad now, and we probably never will.

 

[Piers]

Agree that Marty may have been maybe a little too swept up in creative rights and artistry. I'm assuming that's why he has started up his own company.

Even then, the golden rule tends to be that he who has the gold makes the rules. Activision financed the game, and if they want to change the music for the trailer then they can. Marty was ultimately creating music on a company payroll.

Edit:
Was ignoring the bigger picture. He's a legendary musician for good reason, and good music requires more than passion. Happy that he got what was due, and that he's away from the shrewd grasp of Activision.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Activision is a fan of telling everyone how many copies of their games sold, but Destiny is a jarring exception, that speaks for a lot.

Also, Halo games sell on one console. Not 4.

 

[Sirim]

I guess Marty's negligence during his time as audio director after all this started to happen may be part of why the VO direction is so poor in the game?

Not sure how early in a game's dev cycle VO is typically recorded.

This line from Bungie's short little paragraph regarding Marty's depature is even funnier now than it was when they first said it:

Today, as friends, we say goodbye. We know that wherever his journey takes him, he will always have a bright and hopeful future.

 

[Trojita]

Grats Marty!

 

[ryan299]

Is there a list of all high ranking employees who left Bungie during Destiny? I just found out Marcus Lehto left also.


Great article.

 

[SmartWaffles]

I guess Marty's negligence during his time as audio director after all this started to happen may be part of why the VO direction is so poor in the game?

Not sure how early in a game's dev cycle VO is typically recorded.

This line from Bungie's short little paragraph regarding Marty's depature is even funnier now than it was when they first said it:

VO is typically done very late into the dev cycle since it needs to fit the story, not the other way around. For examble Fallout 4's VO was done last week, and the game launches in 2 months. Marty left Bungie in April 2014, the VO work might be just starting.

 

[GlamFM]

His music is already elevated above that piece of shit game. Go Marty.

Oh come on!

 

[Manac0r]

It might be easy to demonise Bungie, but I can see both sides honestly. When new management comes into down it becomes difficult. I love Marty's passion, and band of brothers mentality, but I can also see Bungie's management perspective. They have a lot at stake, a company to run, families to feed and pay checks to cash. I know it's a romantic notion to flip the bird at the man, but that path is not always possible. Marty is an artist, passionate to the end and no doubt stood for what he believed in, artistic integrity (I salute you).. But Ryan and co also had a new paradigm to work in and their employees future to think of. It's not so black and white.

tl;dr Big money, big corporations, big problems

E: also there was no need to screw Marty over with shares and not paying, that's Activision flexing corporate muscle, probably to keep in check any fellow employees who sympathised with Marty's ideals.

 

[Garrus Vakarian]

The older leaked contract was for 3 main games, big expansions in between games, was almost ten years. It's crazy because it's the same thing they supposedly wanted to get away from Microsoft for. Not wanting to make Halo for another ten years etc.

It still baffles me they locked themselves into that straight after gaining their supposedly long-desired independence.

Sad to hear how things have gone down between Marty and Bungie, they did such good work together in the Halo days.

 

[SporeCrawler]

I don't know if "epic" is the term I'd use for legal battles, no matter the outcome or what it's over.

I can't imagine Bungie not appealing this, however.

this was an arbitration

 

[Permanently A]

It's crazy how fast Bungie went from being a fan favorite to generally hated, reminds me of Bioware.

That's what getting in bed with a big publisher will do to you.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Shaking my head at so many people blaming Activision here - this is proof that Bungie are completely capable of acting like fuckheads of their own volition. Rather than standing beside one of their founding members when his work on the game was threatened of being undermined, they chose to fire him and remove all benefits and everything owed to him.

 

[OléGunner]

At least this court case proves without a shadow of a doubt that Destiny's story was gutted like a fish.

 

[HiredN00bs]

It still baffles me they locked themselves into that straight after gaining their supposedly long-desired independence.

It's not so baffling when you consider the size of the project. And they're still independent. This is what they wanted to do as a studio.

Shaking my head at so many people blaming Activision here - this is proof that Bungie are completely capable of acting like fuckheads of their own volition. Rather than standing beside one of their founding members when his work on the game was threatened of being undermined, they chose to fire him and remove all benefits and everything owed to him.

Shaking my head at so many people blaming Bungie here - this is proof that Marty is completely capable of acting like a fuckhead of his own volition. Rather than standing beside his other founding members when their relationship with their publisher was threatened of being undermined, he chose to slack off, cause trouble and get fired.

See how ridiculous and inflammatory that sounds? smh

 

[Fahzgoolin]

That's what getting in bed with a big publisher will do to you.

Pretty much.

 

[Monocle]

Split screen cut due to not wanting to sacrifice 60fps and BTB coming shortly after launch. Let's not do this in this thread please.

I'm fairly sure Bungie wouldn't have cut split-screen for a higher framerate, given how well they seemed to understand the value of Halo's local multiplayer features. 343's choice to get rid of it is going to damage Halo 5's longevity.

 

[SporeCrawler]

It might be easy to demonise Bungie, but I can see both sides honestly. When new management comes into down it becomes difficult. I love Marty's passion, and band of brothers mentality, but I can also see Bungie's management perspective. They have a lot at stake, a company to run, families to feed and pay checks to cash. I know it's a romantic notion to flip the bird at the man, but that path is not always possible. Marty is an artist, passionate to the end and no doubt stood for what he believed in, artistic integrity (I salute you).. But Ryan and co also had a new paradigm to work in and their employees future to think of. It's not so black and white.

tl;dr Big money, big corporations, big problems

E: also there was no need to screw Marty over with shares and not paying, that's Activision flexing corporate muscle, probably to keep in check any fellow employees who sympathised with Marty's ideals.

noir smactually black and white. they wanted to terminate the employment? fine thats their prerogative but they did it in an asshole way by not honoring any agreements. they left unused vacation time unpaid and they just unilaterally revoked his shares,nfor which they had no right.

 

[Manac0r]

noir smactually black and white. they wanted to terminate the employment? fine thats their prerogative but they did it in an asshole way by not honoring any agreements. they left unused vacation time unpaid and they just unilaterally revoked his shares,nfor which they had no right.

I agree but I doubt it was Bungie who wanted to take such action, and more Activision's lawyers getting stuck in. Also sometimes when things go south, blood goes bad. Maybe Bungie felt Marty was violating their code and putting his own ideals above the whole teams. I'm sure in their eyes they were'nt 'fucking over a friend'. Relationships can turn sour, and emotions can run high in these situations.

I'm not saying Bungie are innocent, but management and corporate level bullshit is messy stuff.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Holy smokes, that's quite a win for Marty, congratulations.

Going by what we read there, the termination, while seemingly overly strong, does not look to be without cause.
I wonder how much Bungie culture changed, I feel like Marty was not afraid to question /, poke fun critiquing MS when they were owned by them.

 

[Kubiubo]

Great news, he deserves to win.

 

[SmartWaffles]

Also if you want to know more about Activision's habit of controlling studios, read The Final Hours of Titanfall, see what happens to the old Infinity Ward after Modern Warfare 2.

 

[Bamihap]

Seems like the development of Destiny was pretty terribly. All those rumours of complete redesigns, scrapped content, employees being assholes. Maybe the scope was too big and they couldn't deliver.

 

[Acheteedo]

Fuuuuuuck Activision, didn't think I could hate them any more than I already did, but life finds a way.

 

[Coen]

Very interesting read, thanks for the link. I'm not sure what to think, everyone just seems to act like an asshole when that kind of money is at stake. I do wonder why Activision felt that adamant about changing the trailer's music. Seems like a small thing with big impact.

 

[GrizzNKev]

Having met Marty as well as listening to him speak on several occasions, I feel like I have a pretty good sense of his ideals and feelings on the matter. He seemed to be increasingly frustrated about developer-publisher relationships in general, as the scope became massive and creative control slowly eroded away as a result. It's difficult to express in words how it feels to pour your heart into a game only to be told nothing you did will ever be heard. The business outgrew his comfort with creation, and he didn't feel like there was anyone left to respect his work. I received the same sentiment from another Halo CE era Bungie employee who worked closely with Marty when we spoke a few weeks ago. The formation of Highwire along with other Bungie grizzled ancients is further proof of this. I've seen the inside of the machine and I absolutely do not blame him for doing what he did.

 

[Nutter]

I'm fairly sure Bungie wouldn't have cut split-screen for a higher framerate, given how well they seemed to understand the value of Halo's local multiplayer features. 343's choice to get rid of it is going to damage Halo 5's longevity.

Yes the same bungie that said this about Destiny not having Split-Screen.

"We know some players really like split-screen. Ultimately, you can’t build a game to suit every single player out there."

60fps Halo is amazing, if split-screen had to die to get to it, then so be it.

There are plenty of OG Bungie guys who have left the company but i'm pretty sure equal amounts if not more still work there.

 

[SirNinja]

So basically this all started when Activision chose to use some of their 'own' music for their trailers instead of Marty's.

Now on one hand: yes, they're the publisher and it's completely their call on how that's handled. On the other: what they ended up doing was very, very dumb. It just sowed chaos in Bungie's ranks, and eventually to the game's fans when word of his termination spread.

And of course, the lesson Activision took away from it all was to double down on the musical incongruity in their marketing. Cause, you know, what better way to accompany the fact we've angered an eldritch god-king than with a sassy, upbeat Led Zeppelin tune?

I am glad things turned out as well as they did for Marty. His tale will surely serve as a warning for anyone else who tries to bring a touch of class to an Activision-published work.

 

[Tunavi]

Bungie changed. Fuck bungie.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Shaking my head at so many people blaming Bungie here - this is proof that Marty is completely capable of acting like a fuckhead of his own volition. Rather than standing beside his other founding members when their relationship with their publisher was threatened of being undermined, he chose to slack off, cause trouble and get fired.

See how ridiculous and inflammatory that sounds? smh

If they felt he should be fired that's fine - but there are procedures to follow and contractual terms that must be fulfilled. They can't just remove holiday pay and stock entitlement because they don't like how he's been behaving. I'm not really sure what you're arguing here.

 

[Bru]

That's how I read it, he sounds like a complete arse that deserved to be fired.

He reads like a passionate creative artist, employee and founding board member to me. Fired up and fighting against the meddlings of a publisher whose arsey reputation is well known within the industry.

I may not see eye to eye with Marty's politics but I can certainly respect anyone who has the passion and guts to buck the corporate trend, stand apart from the safety of their own senior management team and fight for what they believe in.

 

[Spy]

So basically this all started when Activision chose to use some of their 'own' music for their trailers instead of Marty's.

Now on one hand: yes, they're the publisher and it's completely their call on how that's handled. On the other: what they ended up doing was very, very dumb. It just sowed chaos in Bungie's ranks, and eventually to the game's fans when word of his termination spread.

And of course, the lesson Activision took away from it all was to double down on the musical incongruity in their marketing. Cause, you know, what better way to accompany the fact we've angered an eldritch god-king than with a sassy, upbeat Led Zeppelin tune?

I am glad things turned out as well as they did for Marty. His tale will surely serve as a warning for anyone else who tries to bring a touch of class to an Activision-published work.

I watched that trailer and felt the music choice was horrible. Nice to know I don't have Bungie to blame, thanks Activision!