Hillary won with her experience and poise but I thought Sanders had the best content, although I am a Sander supporter. I felt like Hillary said a bunch of nothing, save for shitting on Republicans. which is certainly entertaining but it felt a bit cheap after awhile.
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Democratic National Primary Debate #1 |Tokyo2016| Rise of Mecha-Godzilla
- Thread starter B-Dubs
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Hillary won with her experience and poise but I thought Sanders had the best content, although I am a Sander supporter. I felt like Hillary said a bunch of nothing, save for shitting on Republicans. which is certainly entertaining but it felt a bit cheap after awhile.
At least they're better than Chaffee
ErasureAcer
Banned
Wall St. Regulates Congress
Corporate media supports the corporate candidate and declared Hillary winner. Chris Matthews (MSNBC) and the Chicago Tribune think Bernie won.
3 different focus groups(Fusion, CNN, FOX) of Democratic voters all say Bernie won.
Does the media pick the winner of the debate(election for that matter) or do the voters? If it's the voters, Bernie wins. If it's the media, Hillary wins.
Jim Webb killed a man once.
Clinton, Sanders, and O'Malley all won but I felt like Clinton showed the strongest promise as a leader.
soul creator
Member
has Hillary made any mention publicly of the need for higher voting turnout in midterms to advance a bolder Democratic agenda? Obviously, I know she supports voting policies that would likely lead to higher turnouts, but does she ever talk about that in speeches/interviews/etc.?
I'm curious since that seems to be the actual pathway to bigger changes, but Sanders seems to be the only one that brings it up more directly. Obama used to sort of talk about it as well (community organizer!), though it seemed to kind of fade away after he got into office.
"Jim Webb, I've been meaning to talk to you about that. You should find yourself a safehouse or a relative close by. Lay low for a while, because you're probably wanted for murder. "
I'm curious since that seems to be the actual pathway to bigger changes, but Sanders seems to be the only one that brings it up more directly. Obama used to sort of talk about it as well (community organizer!), though it seemed to kind of fade away after he got into office.
B-Dubs said:
"Jim Webb, I've been meaning to talk to you about that. You should find yourself a safehouse or a relative close by. Lay low for a while, because you're probably wanted for murder. "
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
So basically what everybody was expecting? Do you guys think Sanders killed his chance at gaining momentum?
The Lamonster
Member
Why don't you go read some articles about the debate?
...and I have no idea why you would ask about Sanders killing his momentum. He did really well.
No Hillary did that for him. Bernie was never really in control of his chances, he not only had to perform well but hope Hillary completely fucked up on a scale she never has before. I imagine he'll get a small bump, but not much else. The numbers have already started going back to where they were in early August, when Hillary was up by an absurd amount and Bernie was barely breaking 20 points, and seem to be trending back to where they were at the start of the summer. I don't think this debate is going to change that trend.
He did, but he also needed Hillary to fuck up. That didn't happen.
User 463088
Banned
I've said it before and i'll say it again.
The pure sex maniac that is Lincoln Chafee was everything last night. His charisma, uniqueness, nerve and talent really wooed me. His answer to why he voted for the Patriot Act was nothing short of a profile in courage. It was his first day, guys. He totally had to park in the shitty spaces out behind the Capitol. Then, he tried to use the bathroom, but Larry Craig's wide stance made it hard, and he got a little gun shy. So, he really didn't know what he was voting for, because shits confusing and he really had to pee. And his dog was kinda looking sick that morning.
The pure sex maniac that is Lincoln Chafee was everything last night. His charisma, uniqueness, nerve and talent really wooed me. His answer to why he voted for the Patriot Act was nothing short of a profile in courage. It was his first day, guys. He totally had to park in the shitty spaces out behind the Capitol. Then, he tried to use the bathroom, but Larry Craig's wide stance made it hard, and he got a little gun shy. So, he really didn't know what he was voting for, because shits confusing and he really had to pee. And his dog was kinda looking sick that morning.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
I might, just figured I could get some better points from Gaf. And if Hillary supposedly did better conducting the debate than Sanders...would it not show she is better to lead than he is?
ErasureAcer
Banned
Yeah, because the guy in PR should be running the company. /smashinghead
User 463088
Banned
You genuinely think the media is going to shift twenty five years of pure disdain for Hillary Clinton and claim she's the winner for shits and giggles?
Hahahahahahahahaha.
Oh wait, you're serious?
ErasureAcer
Banned
They weren't choosing Sanders for obvious reason(he proclaimed in the debate he wasn't a capitalist). The 2 goofballs had little redeeming qualities. That only leaves O'Malley and Clinton. To explain O'Malley and his stances(or anyone not Clinton for that matter) and how he ousted Clinton for debate honors would be opening a can of worms of actually covering O'Malley's campaign which they don't want to do. I personally do think O'Malley did better than Clinton but worse than Bernie. Hillary's bronze medal got turned into gold by the media.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Well, I don't quite remember the country or country that is, but I think some have the idea that after the party is elected, they elect a a figurehead to represent the country. Having someone be the PR person or President for deciding what the party will do could be better. We would have to care less about personal issues around the figured, and just focus on the issues that the party bring to the table.
User 463088
Banned
I don't want to preach to you something you already know, so please forgive me if you're already aware of all this. Posting it for those who may not be.
The media absolutely hates Hillary Clinton. They always have. It's irrational, explainable but true. The way she was treated during Bill's terms speaks for itself. They do not like her. If there was any chance in hell they could have spun it that she lost, they would have. They want a horse race. They're not going to crown the front runner as the winner if she didn't actually do better than Sanders.
The media has tried for months to make it appear as though Clinton were slipping and losing her position as front runner. They've driven the narrative that Biden was going to get into the race because everyone was so sure that Clinton was flaming out. This has been their goal for months and months.
She was better prepared than he was. She looked far more Presidential. She hit the right notes where she needed to. Most importantly, though, she made the case for why Joe Biden doesn't need to get in the race. That benefits her far, far more than Sanders.
ErasureAcer
Banned
It seems you know it all. You should write a book.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
not sure if anyone posted, but the debate got 15.3 million viewers. that's compared to 25 and 23 million for the republican debates so far. but 15.3 was the 6th highest non-sports broadcast ever, so it's nothing to sneeze at
http://money.cnn.com/2015/10/14/media/cnn-democratic-debate-ratings-record/
http://money.cnn.com/2015/10/14/media/cnn-democratic-debate-ratings-record/
User 463088
Banned
Nope. Just been following politics for a very, very long time.
Snark is cool, though. Way easier than debating ideas.
ErasureAcer
Banned
Nope. Just been following politics for a very, very long time.
Personal attacks are cool, though. Way easier than debating ideas.
How could I debate you? I wouldn't feel worthy being on the same stage.
Hexa
Member
I don't get Trump. He's praising Cooper and Hillary and attacking Bernie.
https://instagram.com/p/80rWSdGhT0/
What's he playing at? Hmmm...
https://instagram.com/p/80rWSdGhT0/
What's he playing at? Hmmm...
ErasureAcer
Banned
Corporate media will be reporting the debate on the national news. They will of course declare Hillary winner and look for Trump's comment and how he won't be a pushover(not that Bernie or O'Malley were). Basically Trump stroking his toupee.
eBay Huckster
Member
You could maybe start by acknowledging reality once in a while instead of doubling down on Kucinich 2008
Trump isn't the kind of guy who has a master plan, he just goes from moment to moment.
He was more talking himself up, and everyone else down, than praising Hillary though. He was more like, "Hillary did well against those losers, but she's going to be crushed by the GOD-LIKE BUSINESSMAN that is TRUMP since no one is on my level."
Spider from Mars
tap that thorax
The Sander's supporters on my facebook are unbearable, they remind me of Ron Paul supporters from 2012, boasting online polls and shit like it's sound scientific polling and coming up with conspiracy theories on why political writers think Hillary "won" and will be the eventual nominee.
"They think Bernie Sanders can win the nomination and a national election"
"They think Bernie Sanders can win the nomination and a national election"
ErasureAcer
Banned
When have I brought Kucinich up in the past, I dunno, 5 years when some member of this forum hasn't brought him up in some attack on me? I haven't. Doubling down? Don't be an idiot. You are allowed to be a fool however.
Veritigo_X
Member
My thoughts (as a liberal independent Clinton supporter):
- Clinton, Sanders, O'Malley all sounded great, and made some great points without attacking one another.
- Jim Webb needed to suck it up and understand that he's not going to get equal time. Whining about it to the extent that the moderator had to talk him down multiple times made him look foolish.
- Anderson Cooper did a good job. He may be the only person on CNN I can listen to.
- O'Malley got a nice shot in at the DNC Chair when he addressed her saying something like "look how great it is to be having debates!" For the unaware there's a rift in the party over how many debates are needed, with O'Malley saying more, and the DNC Chair saying less.
- Clinton could have explained the whole progressive/moderate thing a little better. What she (and everyone else on the stage) wants to do is not outrageous left-wing stuff, but rather things that most people want like affordable healthcare, protecting women's rights, marriage equality, etc. In a political environment poisoned by the extremists on the right, these ideas look like Lefty Liberal Hootenanny. In every other country in the world, everyone on the stage would be a moderate.
- Clinton messed up responding to the question about the email inquiry, saying it was an admitted partisan effort to hurt her poll numbers. There is indeed an admitted partisan effort to hurt her ongoing, but she's referring to the Benghazi investigation.
- Webb's shirt looked like the collar was an inch too small. Agree with whoever mentioned he reminded them of Cotton "I killed fi'ty men" Hill.
- Chafee sounded unprepared and unserious.
- Bernie looked old. Nothing wrong with that of course - on the contrary I think we should look to those with wisdom and experience to help with the tough issues the country is facing. But I can't help wondering how he'll handle the rigors of being president. I've read that the constant stress the president is under essentially causes him or her to essentially age two years for every year in office. For 74 year old Sanders that could be a problem. Obama looks worn out to me and he's 25 years younger.
- I wish Clinton wouldn't have hit the "I'm a woman" thing quite so hard. Mention it once, maybe, but bringing it up any more than that makes it sound like she thinks that her gender is reason enough to vote for her. I know she doesn't actually think that (and explained that very point last night). We want the best person for the job, man or woman. Anyone out there voting for her solely because she's a woman is already locked in.
Overall I thought Clinton came off the best (biased opinion alert). It's been said that these debates can't really help her, only hurt (hence the debate on how many debates to have), but I disagree. I think Clinton talking in a less rehearsed setting (still rehearsed of course, but not like a stump speech) is appealing. I like Sanders as well and my support for Clinton was teetering somewhat, but by the end of the show last night I was back on board. I'm really looking forward to casting my vote for her in the primaries and the general.
- Clinton, Sanders, O'Malley all sounded great, and made some great points without attacking one another.
- Jim Webb needed to suck it up and understand that he's not going to get equal time. Whining about it to the extent that the moderator had to talk him down multiple times made him look foolish.
- Anderson Cooper did a good job. He may be the only person on CNN I can listen to.
- O'Malley got a nice shot in at the DNC Chair when he addressed her saying something like "look how great it is to be having debates!" For the unaware there's a rift in the party over how many debates are needed, with O'Malley saying more, and the DNC Chair saying less.
- Clinton could have explained the whole progressive/moderate thing a little better. What she (and everyone else on the stage) wants to do is not outrageous left-wing stuff, but rather things that most people want like affordable healthcare, protecting women's rights, marriage equality, etc. In a political environment poisoned by the extremists on the right, these ideas look like Lefty Liberal Hootenanny. In every other country in the world, everyone on the stage would be a moderate.
- Clinton messed up responding to the question about the email inquiry, saying it was an admitted partisan effort to hurt her poll numbers. There is indeed an admitted partisan effort to hurt her ongoing, but she's referring to the Benghazi investigation.
- Webb's shirt looked like the collar was an inch too small. Agree with whoever mentioned he reminded them of Cotton "I killed fi'ty men" Hill.
- Chafee sounded unprepared and unserious.
- Bernie looked old. Nothing wrong with that of course - on the contrary I think we should look to those with wisdom and experience to help with the tough issues the country is facing. But I can't help wondering how he'll handle the rigors of being president. I've read that the constant stress the president is under essentially causes him or her to essentially age two years for every year in office. For 74 year old Sanders that could be a problem. Obama looks worn out to me and he's 25 years younger.
- I wish Clinton wouldn't have hit the "I'm a woman" thing quite so hard. Mention it once, maybe, but bringing it up any more than that makes it sound like she thinks that her gender is reason enough to vote for her. I know she doesn't actually think that (and explained that very point last night). We want the best person for the job, man or woman. Anyone out there voting for her solely because she's a woman is already locked in.
Overall I thought Clinton came off the best (biased opinion alert). It's been said that these debates can't really help her, only hurt (hence the debate on how many debates to have), but I disagree. I think Clinton talking in a less rehearsed setting (still rehearsed of course, but not like a stump speech) is appealing. I like Sanders as well and my support for Clinton was teetering somewhat, but by the end of the show last night I was back on board. I'm really looking forward to casting my vote for her in the primaries and the general.
Pretty damn good for sure. I don't think anyone expected numbers close to these at all.
Please be nominee, Trump. If that were to happen, I would enjoy his destruction by Hillary.
But now the Benghazi investigation is specifically targeting her email usage, so it's a fair point. They've gone well beyond the scope of their original investigation to use it as the taxpayer-funded anti-Hillary committee, which is her point.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Oh I didn't mean whether he's up or down or nipping at Hillary's heels or something.
I associated the word "now" thinking it was going to be current. Then got confused when I saw the date. Actually was surprised he was only 5 points down (which is still huge) as of a week ago.
vas_a_morir
Banned
The new usage of 'Socialism' is a pet peeve of mine. if simple government spending and taxing is considered "Socialism' then every government in the history of humanity has been a Socialist government. The word means jack shit now. It's a very specific economic system that nobody, not even Bernie, is anywhere near proposing. Seems like calling it Socialism is a bad idea. You think "lol, we are taking back the word and owning it" but really you are just playing into conservative's fearmongering, doing their work for em.
Damerman
Member
God damn... This fuck is just a cosmic hypocrite holy shit.
Fenderputty
Banned
Post like this coming from you are hilariously ironic.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
It's possible, y'know, that Bernie didn't win the debate and you have a personally biased view.
Or it's possible that the media that's been pushing the email thing and the Benghazi thing, neither of which have substance, suddenly decided that they needed to lie to boost Hilary rather than try to attack her.
eBay Huckster
Member
It's a metaphor for the fact that you don't seem to have actually learned a goddamn thing from 7 years ago. Calm down, princess.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
Well not all media can hate Hilary. CNN is owned by Time Warner, who's contributing substantially to her campaign.
ShadowKingpin
Member
This perfectly says it.
Adam_Roman
Member
As an avid Bernie supporter, this debate lessened my bitterness toward Hillary, in part because of O'Malley's closing statement. We really can't risk a divide in the democratic party or else it'll be like the GOP, where there's a good dozen smaller parties residing under one banner and each of them hate each other.
I'm still rooting for Bernie mainly because I would love to see a president elected without getting funding from billionaires, and because his beliefs are much more in-line with mine than any other candidate, but I'm not as against Hillary as I was.
I'm still rooting for Bernie mainly because I would love to see a president elected without getting funding from billionaires, and because his beliefs are much more in-line with mine than any other candidate, but I'm not as against Hillary as I was.
Without Trump I seriously doubt the Republican debates would have done any better.
Still it's kind of crazy to think that we're having double if not triple the amount of interest in debates than normal. Maybe voting turnout will be great next year.
Also lol at those comments on the article. It's all about the EMAILS!
I think this is what he was trying to do by rebranding to a democratic socialist, which is a fairly large umbrella.
benjipwns
Banned
He's always variably said he's a Social Democrat or Democratic Socialist.
Someone needs to send him some PARTY material to inform him THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING.
Also because it's related to this post:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...mbarrassed-to-ask-about-democratic-socialism/
Keru_Shiri
Member
I'd say that's about where I'm at as well.
vas_a_morir
Banned
I mean, good luck, but it's not smart IMO because it's not even an accurate way to describe what he's doing. Usually, you use a word with a GOOD connotation to describe radical systemic changes rather than using a word with a bad connotation to describe moderate economic reform that maintains the current economic system. But shit, I guess the word has a positive connotation with young folks nowadays who never lived in a world with a dual hegemonic socialist state. It really doesn't mean the same thing to those young, 1st time voters... so fuck it, he probably knows what he's doing.
Gentleman Jack
Member
Dude Abides
Banned
You're saying Denmark is not a hegemon?
fivethirtyeight agrees that the mainstream media didnt temper its praise for Hilary post debate but they still think she came out on top.
I agree, considering Bernie didnt do a whole lot to address some of his issues. He's got way bigger hurdles to overcome and just doing on par or slightly better or worse than Hilary isnt good enough.
AstroNut325
Member
Watched a few clips on YouTube. Is the entire debate available anywhere?
Even going off the few clips, I can't believe how much more mature and meaningful this debate is compared to the GOP debate.
Even going off the few clips, I can't believe how much more mature and meaningful this debate is compared to the GOP debate.
You can see this pretty clearly between young voters/students trying to learn what socialism is, and their parent/grandparent generation going super saiyan screaming about pinko commies and fascism.
He should just come up with a new bullshit term, like how Republicans make up fake people that come up to them on the campaign trail and give them a conveniently apt soundbyte. "You know, Trump, we really are the Make America Great Again."
He could go "I'm a socio-capitalist. I believe in making sure capitalism doesn't get too crazy, because <Bernie number dump, tha top tenth of one-pa-cent!>, it's outta control!"
He got close to doing that last night when they asked if he was a capitalist and he didn't fall back on the "No", he instead pointed out that our current form of capitalism is irresponsible and casino-style.
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