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[wanderingprostheyltite]

I think its just stating that both companies have had their marketing foiled by leaks on Kotaku. Making them "Victims" on both Fallout 4 and AC Syndicate and other matters. He explains it a bit more thoroughly and he doesn't defend the studios or their practices. He is just trying to get that these kind of reports. The one with leaks benefit no one except Kotaku and their pageviews.

I think its interesting.

I thought it was pretty even handed and spot on. I still find it amusing the dichotomy in kotaku between the investigative pieces and the 90 percent everything else that's essentially buzzfeed for gamers. Would be nice if they could split off and form a separate site dedicated to straight reporting and less, you know, clickbait content. Guess that doesn't pay the salaries though.

I'm getting an image of Philip Marlowe punching the clock at the Mirror...

 

[DrWong]

This legit depresses me.

Yes, it's sad.

 

[ultron87]

I don't think thats what they are saying in the article.

When you work on a game there is a strategy to get a good presentation and first impression of the game at reveal. Having someone leak documents, scripts, even screens that are not for the media might hinder that. Thats all.... Why won't journalists respect that and work with studios to make the reveals more epic perhaps? Geoff and Kojima come to mind on good reveals and surprises to people.

I guess they are just pointing that these habits will come at a price, even when Bethesda or Ubisoft have their own skeletons in the closet that doesn't justify other media to leak information that is not ready for the public.

You're making the mistaken assumption that the media and the publishers are on the same side. It isn't a journalist's job or responsibility to make "...reveals more epic...". Their job is to let the public know about information so that the public can be informed about things. Knowing that there's an Assassin's Creed game coming next year set in London could affect someone's buying habits. No reason to hold that back.

 

[charlequin]

Why won't journalists respect that and work with studios to make the reveals more epic perhaps?

...........................................

 

[ShutterMunster]

This has probably been posted here already. But i just noticed it. Some interesting opposing opinions to Kotakus article.

I agree with this. Kotaku didn't get blacklisted for pieces like the story on the working conditions at Konami, they got blacklisted for leaking documents that frankly didn't need to be leaked. They're not Snowden and The Washington Post, they are gaming's Hollywood Reporter. It's fair game for Bethesda to say "fuck you guys" and take their ball and go home.

EDIT: Oof, it seems people are going out of their way to NOT understand what this person is saying. Gotta keep that "PUBLISHERS & DEVELOPERS ARE TERRIBLE" train going.

 

[Teeth]

This legit depresses me.

Marketing is part of the game man!

I'm joking, but it does make me wonder about something:

If a game was running an elaborate ARG as part of its pre-announcement runup (as in, the game hadn't actually been announced yet), and people were loving unraveling it, and you got a leak about the solution to the ARG, would you write a story about it, ruining the ARG itself?

 

[v0yce]

I can see where you're coming from, but the last part is a bit of a stretch.

Personally, I'd say the decrease in buzz is caused by Ubi milking the franchise for all its worth and rushing out yearly titles full of bugs. After the shitstorm that was Unity, did Ubi really think there would be more buzz for Syndicate?

All you have to do is go into any E3 thread and see all the "that was unimpressive. We knew about all this stuff" posts.

I don't think a news site is responsible to NOT print something they get from some doucey employee that feels special by leaking some early info, but they're not doing the world some great service buy doing so either.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Why won't journalists respect that and work with studios to make the reveals more epic perhaps?

looool
Yeah Kotaku why won't you respect the hype machine?? Isn't that your job? Or, well, I guess one couldn't be blamed for thinking that it's indeed the press's job to do that when you look at the state of things right now... XD

 

[Nirolak]

Why won't journalists respect that and work with studios to make the reveals more epic perhaps? Geoff and Kojima come to mind on good reveals and surprises to people.

Just so we're on the same page, Geoff's primary job is as a show host.

He's an entertainment presenter in the same sense as Regis Philbin or Joel McHale, where people hire him to explicitly promote their products and/or host an event.

Now, he does do journalism as a side job, and writes great articles like The Final Hours of ________, but that's totally unrelated to the work he does with things like GTTV, The Game Awards, or shows like Blizzcon.

 

[lifa-cobex]

He started threatening self harm and lashing out at people in the thread that got him banned, it was pretty messed up.

Has anyone got any of these posts?

Searching through all the GG threads is taking a while.

 

[Acerac]

I agree with this. Kotaku didn't get blacklisted for pieces like the story on the working conditions at Konami, they got blacklisted for leaking documents that frankly didn't need to be leaked. They're not Snowden and The Washington Post, they are gaming's Hollywood Reporter. It's fair game for Bethesda to say "fuck you guys" and take their ball and go home.

No video game news is necessary though.

None. Not a single bit of it.

How is that even a discussion point?

 

[Burt]

This has probably been posted here already. But i just noticed it. Some interesting opposing opinions to Kotakus article.

won't someone think of the thanos

 

[jschreier]

Marketing is part of the game man!

I'm joking, but it does make me wonder about something:

If a game was running an elaborate ARG as part of its pre-announcement runup (as in, the game hadn't actually been announced yet), and people were loving unraveling it, and you got a leak about the solution to the ARG, would you write a story about it, ruining the ARG itself?

Depends on the game, ARG, context, etc. There's no single broad answer to any question about a story's news value -- it's always a case-by-case basis.

 

[Clockwork5]

So you don't want there to be anything remotely resembling journalism for video games

Don't really have a dog in this fight but leaking confidential information of any entertainment medium ahead of official announcements simply because you are in the know is far from journalism, it is unethical, it is a violation of trust and is the type of behavior which will get you blacklisted by a publisher, in any medium.

As the post you replied to was talking about press leaks my response to you is only regarding press leaks. If that is your definition of journalism, no wonder you were blacklisted.

 

[ShutterMunster]

No video game news is necessary though.

None. Not a single bit of it.

How is that even a discussion point?

What?

Never mind. I don't even want to continue this further.

EDIT:

Don't really have a dog in this fight but leaking confidential information of any entertainment medium ahead of official announcements simply because you are in the know is far from journalism, it is unethical, it is a violation of trust and is the type of behavior which will get you blacklisted by a publisher, in any medium.

As the post you replied to was talking about press leaks my response to you is only regarding press leaks. If that is your definition of journalism, no wonder you were blacklisted.

THIS. People don't know what journalism is anymore.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Yeah leaking information the companies DEFINITELY don't want released then expecting a free copy of the game/invites to events is fucking bizarre.

 

[zelas]

Hold up. Does that article really refer to Bethesda and Ubisoft as victims?

I had to re-read that twice to make sure my eyes weren't deceiving me.

There wasn't one negative consequence of Kotaku's leaks?

 

[Sammy Samusu]

This has probably been posted here already. But i just noticed it. Some interesting opposing opinions to Kotakus article.

Blame the person who leaked it to Kotaku.

Kotaku's job is to break and report news.

GAF insiders leak info all the time and I don't see people complaining.

The hypocrisy is too much. http://www.gamezone.com/search?utf8=✓&q=leak

 

[Lunar15]

Yeah leaking information the companies DEFINITELY don't want released then expecting a free copy of the game/invites to events is fucking bizarre.

That's not what they're looking for, though. Said companies are completely giving the cold shoulder, even when asked for comment on other topics.

Anywho, I read the GameZone article, and while I don't agree with everything, (I'm fine with Kotaku leaking things and I think blacklists are silly), I think for me, it's the posturing that Kotaku is some kind of brave pioneer because they leaked some game-hyping things and got blacklisted for it.

My point is, it's super dangerous to play the "we don't play ball with publishers" route, when, as an entertainment tabloid, you're always going to have to give in a little bit in order to keep your standard news going. It's a catch 22 that all websites face and Kotaku trying to act like they're above it is often really silly.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

GAF violates companies's trust by hosting and allowing leakers to post information. GAF is unethical.

Spoiler

/s

 

[pompidu]

Blame the person who leaked it to Kotaku.

Kotaku's job is to break and report news.

GAF insiders leak info all the time and I don't see people complaining.

You would have a point if evilore is the one posting the leaks. Comparison makes no sense otherwise.

People really care that kotaku got blacklisted? Who gives a shit really? This is the real world and companies blacklist shit all the time.

 

[Clockwork5]

Blame the person who leaked it to Kotaku.

Kotaku's job is to break and report news.

GAF insiders leak info all the time and I don't see people complaining.

I don't think people are complaining. Myself and others are simply saying if you violate the trust of these publishers be prepared to exit the inner circle.

If you want to leak info, be smart, do it anonymously and don't plaster it on the front page of your website.

 

[Lunar15]

I don't think people are complaining. Myself and others are simply saying if you violate the trust of these publishers be prepared to exit the inner circle.

If you want to leak info, be smart, do it anonymously and don't plaster it on the front page of your website.

This doesn't make any sense. Where else would you leak it?

I have no major ethical qualms with leaks. It's what these websites do. However, leaking the location of a few games isn't really brave, hard hitting journalism either. It's akin to your brother or sister sneaking into your parents' closet and telling you what they got you for christmas.

Situation changes if they were blacklisted for talking about working conditions, but in that case: if you have to rely on the company's word for an article like that, you're never ever going to write a good article about it. Any company that refuses to talk lets the opposition do all the talking.

 

[James Scott]

Yeah leaking information the companies DEFINITELY don't want released then expecting a free copy of the game/invites to events is fucking bizarre.

That's probably a simpler way to say how I feel about all this.
Would be a different story if it was pertaining to anything other than a leak.

Blame the person who leaked it to Kotaku.

Kotaku's job is to break and report news.

GAF insiders leak info all the time and I don't see people complaining.

The hypocrisy is too much. http://www.gamezone.com/search?utf8=✓&q=leak

Gaf wasn't on a publishers PR list to get blacklisted in the first place. And it's random users that don't get paid for posting here. If something leaked here and Kotaku posted it on their site then that's a different story as well.

 

[Cruxist]

Can anyone explain why it's a regular practice in the gaming industry to keep things super secret all the time? Other mediums of entertainment like movies or tv shows or books always have news about new projects, contracts, etc... floating around. Why is it that the games industry is so tight-lipped? Is it because it's still viewed as a niche entertainment form? Is it because "that's how its always been done"?

 

[Sheriff_Battlesnake]

Marketing is part of the game man!

I'm joking, but it does make me wonder about something:

If a game was running an elaborate ARG as part of its pre-announcement runup (as in, the game hadn't actually been announced yet), and people were loving unraveling it, and you got a leak about the solution to the ARG, would you write a story about it, ruining the ARG itself?

Marketing is part of the game though... Bigger hype could mean more sales, but more sales don't just line greedy pockets, it could also mean the game will get further support or more funding for a sequel.

Hype is an essential part of the machine. Don't be a slave to it, but don't act like it isn't a factor.

 

[krang]

It comes as shock to me how ready so many consumers are to accept the tactic. No one should be surprised that publishers consider these tactics but that should be weighed against the potential backlash of using access to control the message and "punish" journalists that they consider out of line. Publishers reading this thread should be ecstatic. The news goes out that publications are being blacklisted for not playing ball and there are a legend of fans that either applaud the move or are completely indifferent to it as if it should be expected.

More outfits should be vocal when this happens to them. Out the publishers, make wallow in their own shit.

 

[Clockwork5]

This doesn't make any sense. Where else would you leak it?

I have no major ethical qualms with leaks. It's what these websites do. However, leaking the location of a few games isn't really brave, hard hitting journalism either. It's akin to your brother or sister sneaking into your parents' closet and telling you what they got you for christmas.

Reddit.

 

[Teeth]

Marketing is part of the game though... Bigger hype could mean more sales, but more sales don't just line greedy pockets, it could also mean the game will get further support or more funding for a sequel.

Hype is an essential part of the machine. Don't be a slave to it, but don't act like it isn't a factor.

Hype is part of the machine, but it isn't part of the game.

I know well and good how much marketing matters in the business of games.

 

[ShutterMunster]

Can anyone explain why it's a regular practice in the gaming industry to keep things super secret all the time? Other mediums of entertainment like movies or tv shows or books always have news about new projects, contracts, etc... floating around. Why is it that the games industry is so tight-lipped? Is it because it's still viewed as a niche entertainment form? Is it because "that's how its always been done"?

I disagree with this notion as a whole. Most people don't know a damn thing about movie or music contracts. You don't know the intricacies of Taylor Swift's label deal or what actors are really getting paid and how the money is broken down. The movie industry is bigger, more popular, and perhaps the leakiest of the bunch, but it still isn't vastly more open than the music space.

I do think that when it comes to the process of making games it is way more secretive than need be. People kind of understand how movies are made and certainly how music is made, but games are kind of a mystery in that regard.

 

[Lunar15]

Reddit.

They don't leak things for charity, especially not upcoming game news.

 

[ultron87]

Reddit.

So then should Kotaku and the like not follow up on potentially credible Reddit rumors and try to confirm them? Would that still be violating the trust of the publishers?

 

[Apollo Cree]

Blame the person who leaked it to Kotaku.

Kotaku's job is to break and report news.

GAF insiders leak info all the time and I don't see people complaining.

The hypocrisy is too much.http://www.gamezone.com/search?utf8=✓&q=leak

Nope. People aren't saying that leaks are the issue. People are stating that it's silly for Kotaku to be butthurt when these publishers decide to stop playing ball after Kotaku leaks their games.

People also forget that Kotaku exists to make money as well.

 

[Clockwork5]

They don't leak things for charity, especially not upcoming game news.

Exactly. Kotaku leaked this info for monetary gain and the publishers shut the door. What else do you expect?

 

[Starfield]

They leaked the entre intro and Story of Bethesda's next game. No Honor

 

[Sheriff_Battlesnake]

Hype is part of the machine, but it isn't part of the game.

I know well and good how much marketing matters in the business of games.

Okay, maybe I'm unclear on what you mean when you say "part of the game." I think semantics are messing me up. To you, what is the difference between "the machine" and "the game."

 

[Kindekuma]

Exactly. Kotaku leaked this info for monetary gain and the publishers shut the door. What else do you expect?

It's a race to get clicks.

Get info about an unreleased title and push it out first brings in heavy traffic and ad revenue. I don't get really that excited about "leaked" announcements, official announcements are always better.

 

[brau]

Just so we're on the same page, Geoff's primary job is as a show host.

He's an entertainment presenter in the same sense as Regis Philbin or Joel McHale, where people hire him to explicitly promote their products and/or host an event.

Now, he does do journalism as a side job, and writes great articles like The Final Hours of ________, but that's totally unrelated to the work he does with things like GTTV, The Game Awards, or shows like Blizzcon.

I get it. But that is the point i am getting at. Its a reveal. What are the benefits of disclosing media that is not ready to be shown? Obviously all the benefit goes to the source that discloses such information. It doesn't help the game when the media shown is scripts, locations, maybe buggy images or alpha screens. The consumer gets the same out of it either way. Whether they wait for the reveal from an official source or a leak.

What scenario benefits EVERYONE? probably the one that respects the information at hand. I guess this is being optimistic and maybe holding the privilege and right for people to get information first hand. I understand this is a slippery slope... and having big corporations trend on patterns that earn them a bad reputation will lead to people taking sides instead of looking at the big picture and not seeing this as a black and white choice.

 

[Liferebooted]

Meh, never really considered Kotaku to be valuable source of anything.

 

[ghostjoke]

They had me until they started talking about leaking story details and unannounced video games. That's a very strange idea of journalism there Kotaku, on pair with forum posting or the person who leaked the "Hateful 8" script. Taking some cues from big daddy Gawker are we? It really comes across as "we wanted part of the pie" for profit. That always seems to be the more prevalent thing coming out of Kotaku than investigate journalism into possible sketchy aspects of the gaming industry. So, yeah, you bit the hands that feeds once too many times. Granted, Ubi and Bethesda are unlikely to be saints in this situation but you can't have your cake and eat it. Actually, this will probably only encourage Kotaku to do more leaking of pre-release stuff. EVERYBODY LOSES.

 

[brau]

Meh, never really considered Kotaku to be valuable source of anything.

I guess there is this. I always thought of them more of an opinion site. Specially earlier when authors would keep posting about their kids. Good thing that is no longer the case.

 

[Lunar15]

Exactly. Kotaku leaked this info for monetary gain and the publishers shut the door. What else do you expect?

I agree with you, but my thing is that I have no ethical qualms with Kotaku doing that. It's more that this is pretty silly feud between Kotaku and Publishers. The publishers absolutely do not need defending, as what they're doing is petty, but Kotaku also kind of looks silly here in that their posturing just doesn't line up with what they did.

However, I do think calling the blacklisters out is a funny way to deal with blacklists, so it'll be interesting to see where it goes from here. As an aside, you'd think that Gawker Media, of all places, would be used to getting blacklisted.

Meh, never really considered Kotaku to be valuable source of anything.

They've had some good articles, particularly about working conditions for QA team members and other workplace problems. These are really the main things I care about when it comes to "game journalism".

 

[DeepEnigma]

Don't you just loved blurry off screen images of an early build of an unannounced game?

So much truth!

Yes, yes I do. The speculation is fun.

We did that one time at Sony SCEA-SD (MLB The Show) for rabid Atlanta fans on Operation Sports. It was quite funny to see them squirm actually.

You will be surprised that a good portion is "viral" sometimes.

 

[Clockwork5]

So then should Kotaku and the like not follow up on potentially credible Reddit rumors and try to confirm them? Would that still be violating the trust of the publishers?

They should probably ask permission from the publishers if it is confidential, unannounced game info if they wish to maintain an open working relationship with the publishers. If they don't, they should be prepared to be treated as untrustworthy and have communication severed.

The publishers have marketing teams and schedules in place for a reason, they spend tons of money on marketing and I'm sure they are not happy when websites with whom they have built relationships leak info that they planned to divulge at a later date as part of the marketing plan for the product.

When you bite the hand that feeds you, be prepared to go hungry.

 

[drgambit]

 

[Quasar]

Publishers are control freak assholes? What a shock.

Does this happen elsewhere? Does rolling stone for instance get blacklisted by music labels?

 

[kavanf1]

Can anyone explain why it's a regular practice in the gaming industry to keep things super secret all the time? Other mediums of entertainment like movies or tv shows or books always have news about new projects, contracts, etc... floating around. Why is it that the games industry is so tight-lipped? Is it because it's still viewed as a niche entertainment form? Is it because "that's how its always been done"?

It's pretty much the opposite, most industries are secretive as a rule, and it's only in a minority of industries (like gaming) that people seem to think they ought to be told every detail regardless of commercial sensitivity.

 

[Pathfinder]

There wasn't one negative consequence of Kotaku's leaks?

One could just as easily argue that game info leaks are free publicity, and help build hype.

 

[Lunar15]

Publishers are control freak assholes? What a shock.

Does this happen elsewhere? Does rolling stone for instance get blacklisted by music labels?

Happens in the movie industry all the time. I guarantee you it happens in every industry. It's certainly not a good thing.

 

[v0yce]

Yes, yes I do. The speculation is fun.

We did that one time at Sony SCEA-SD (MLB The Show) for rabid Atlanta fans on Operation Sports. It was quite funny to see them squirm actually.

You will be surprised that a good portion is "viral" sometimes.

Whose "we."

And what does "You will be surprised that a good portion is "viral" sometimes" mean?