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[jnWake]

Lol you went through many filler-ish families today!

Hoppip line is one I've never cared about. I guess Hoppip being so weak always put me off using it.

Aipom is a bet cooler. Definitely not the coolest monkey Pokemon but it has a cool idea for the design.

Sunkern... Just lol.

Yanma breaks the streaks of useless Pokémon though. I mean, not Yanma itself since it's still sucky but Yanmega is damn good. Speed Boost is a cool ability and it has a somewhat diverse moveset. I had one in my rotating team for X/Y and it worked nicely.

 

[unknownstranger]

Never used Yanma/Yanmega but I've heard they're pretty decent. Will try using one in the next Pokémon game I play if I can find one early.

 

[brinstar]

Yanmega's Japanese voice on the show was a thing of beauty

 

[Azuran]

This thread is making me realize just how bad Gen 2's Pokemon were. Why was it that Gen 3 always got the hate?

Because the majority of people have bad taste and are blinded by dumb nostalgia. Gen III has the best Pokedex is the series because so many amazing Pokemon were introduced in that gen. I loved it so much when I played it for the first time because everything felt new.

 

[Benzychenz]

Because the majority of people have bad taste and are blinded by dumb nostalgia. Gen III has the best Pokedex is the series because so many amazing Pokemon were introduced in that gen. I loved it so much when I played it for the first time because everything felt new.

Gen 3 has a lot of Pokemon I think are good, but not a lot I think are great.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

Yanmega's Japanese voice on the show was a thing of beauty

Did the dub change it? It basically went YAN YAN so it was perfectly usable.

 

[PataHikari]

A lot of these Pokemon would be a lot less awful if they simply weren't so statistically bad.

 

[brinstar]

Did the dub change it? It basically went YAN YAN so it was perfectly usable.

I have no idea, I haven't seen the dub in eons.

I also have to give a shoutout to Swellow's surprisingly manly-as-hell jp voice

 

[Dandy Crocodile]

Yanma was the one Pokemon I never caught in Silver version back in the day. I remember seeing one once then never seeing another. Guess 1% just wasn't enough and I literally don't recall ever tracking swarms so it was probably beyond me.

 

[Toxi]

A lot of these Pokemon would be a lot less awful if they simply weren't so statistically bad.

Delibird is like a sick joke.

"Okay, let's make a Pokemon with the same typing as Articuno... And give it a worse base stat total than Farfetch'd."

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Yanma and Yanmega feel like they should be faster. Dragonflies are the fastest insects, yet Yanma/Mega are slower than a random Pokemon like Gourgeist.

Delibird is like a sick joke.

"Okay, let's make a Pokemon with the same typing as Articuno... And give it a worse base stat total than Farfetch'd."

Deliberd needed to exist so we could get that pretty fun Stadium 2 mini-game.

 

[Dr. Feel Good]

For some reason I've always been drawn to really shitty Pokemon when I play the single player campaign so I enjoyed challenging myself and using Yanma. He wasn't great, but Wing Attack, Toxic, Solarbeam, Return was at least a useable set.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

I have no idea, I haven't seen the dub in eons.

I also have to give a shoutout to Swellow's surprisingly manly-as-hell jp voice

Japanese voices BLOW the dub voices out of the water as far as I'm concerned. I agree Swellow's original voice is amazing.

The classic dub voices were okay, and some of the newer ones aren't too bad, but Japan is always ace. Mainly because they do more than simply say the name in full each and every time.

 

[Toxi]

Yanma and Yanmega feel like they should be faster. Dragonflies are the fastest insects, yet Yanma/Mega are slower than a random Pokemon like Gourgeist.

That's why they have Speed Boost.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Not all the Japanese voices are better...

As funky as our Greninja voice is, at least it's not just gagging sounds over and over

Someone get poor Gekkouga a glass of water or something.

I originally thought the US voice was kind of strange, but it's really grown on me

 

[Boss Doggie]

The Japanese Greninja in the anime sounded better.

Also I goddamn love the XY animation of Yanma/Yanmega.

 

[Kssio_Aug]

A positive thing about ORAS is you have a decent selection (Hoenn probably had the largest Regional Dex all things considered until B2/W2 when you factor in all the National Dex Pokemon in G/S who were either unavailable, or not found till post-E4), and the DexNav allows you to get some good moves and Abilities on Pokemon who normally are a bit poor during the main adventure.

I wish the game was more challenging to make that fact stand out more though.

Yup. Playing through the story has been quite easy indeed. And had years I didn't play a pokemon game! Am loving it anyway though!

Is there any news about a next main Pokemon game? (what I believe would be Gen 7 or Z)

 

[Mr-Joker]

Aw man why are you guys hating on Ambipom? I like it.

Anyway yeah I hated who Ash traded his Aipom to Dawn only for it to leave for the most stupidest reason, Ash should have kept it and caught Buizel. I mean seriously why did fuck did Dawn even bother to catch it she already has a water type she didn't need another one.

Anyway I like Aipom since gen 2 and I love that he got an evolution in gen 4. I also love Yanma and Yanmega though I never had the chance to use them due to their typing clashing with Charizard 4x weakness to rock.

But yeah gen 2 Pokémon were either fillers, weak or stand alone. It also didn't help that some of the Johto Pokémon couldn't be caught till late in the game.

Kanto and gen 1 really really overshadowed Gen 2 and as a result I feel that Johto didn't really get a chance to shine.

OH MY GOD
I am so jealous of you all, especially you Mr-Joker. My childhood has been ruined in reverse T_T I want an elaborate role playing Pokemon story going back to Red/Blue. I thought I was over moping (

Spoiler

wanting a Kanto experience and moping is not the same, one has a feeling of sadness the other is demand and excitement

) over having missed out, but nope.

Ha ha, well while I did play Pokémon from Pokémon Red I actually didn't start doing my head story till round about gen 3-4.

Someone actually likes Pichu?

Yeah Sakurai.

Someone actually dislikes Pichu?

Yeah Sakurai.

 

[ffdgh]

Not all the Japanese voices are better...

As funky as our Greninja voice is, at least it's not just gagging sounds over and over

Someone get poor Gekkouga a glass of water or something.

I originally thought the US voice was kind of strange, but it's really grown on me

...I don't know what I was expecting but it certainly wasn't that.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Woah, I genuinely forgot Yanma and Yanmega existed, decent designs but ultimately forgettable to me.

 

[Hollycat]

I think it would be great if one day pokemon had a "integral" or "implied" type that doesn't affect damage they take, only STAB. Dragon would totally work for Yanmega. Water for Lugia, Ice for empoleon, Fighting for the Nido family, etc.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I think it would be great if one day pokemon had a "integral" or "implied" type that doesn't affect damage they take, only STAB. Dragon would totally work for Yanmega. Water for Lugia, Ice for empoleon, Fighting for the Nido family, etc.

Abilities sort of do this, although on the defensive side. Levitate gives Pokemon Flying's immunity to Ground, Lightning Rod gives Ground's immunity to Electric, and so on. And something like Dry Skin creates a new sort of weakness/resistance by adding a Water immunity, but gaining a Fire weakness.

 

[jnWake]

It's funny but 2 types and 1 ability sometimes isn't enough to fully represent a Pokemon. I strongly doubt they'll ever change that though.

 

[Salvadora]

Some of these Pokemon are shockingly bad.

Gamefreak would be crucified if those came out today

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Some of these Pokemon are shockingly bad.

Gamefreak would be crucified if those came out today

Yea i didn't realize johto was so bad. Unova and kalos trumps the hell out of johto design wise(,imo)

 

[Salvadora]

Yea i didn't realize johto was so bad. Unova and kalos trumps the hell out of johto design wise(,imo)

Not even design wise, some of the are pure useless even in game....

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Johto had a hard life.

Pushed aside in their own region, which itself was more or less just an expansion pack for the first gen.
Then totally forgotten entirely for the third gen, in an almost comical way. Like, seriously. The way to Ho-oh was downright ridiculous. Get a "good" legendary dog was basically impossible due to the time required in Orre to even check IVs and Nature, and a bug in FR/LG with the Dog IVs.
Fourth Gen breathes new life in the second gen... but sticks all of the cool new evos until late/post game.
Then we get an awesome remake
Then Johto is entirely forgotten again, mostly back to being random wild Pokemon here and there and some megas for the really popular ones.

In Smash Bros the second gen has one song that it's had since Melee, and its one playable rep was cut immediately and is infamous for being awful and a joke character. It also had a rumored stage that was cut (Sprout Tower), with it and the third gen being the only two without a stage in the Smash series.

The second gen is usually brought up as one of the best gens as far as game play. Which it is. A beautiful region with nice mechanics like day/night and a massive post game through an entire other region. But its roster of new Pokemon, especially ones not connected to older Pokemon, was... not good.

 

[PK Gaming]

Put me down as another person who didn't realize Johto's selection was that poor

I let my love for Typhlosion and Heracross blind me to gen II's flaws

Just waves and waves of Yanma-tier Pokemon...

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Someone looked at Murkrow and said "Yep, this is totally an appropriate late game single stage evolution"

 

[Man God]

The second gen is usually brought up as one of the best gens as far as game play. Which it is. A beautiful region with nice mechanics like day/night and a massive post game through an entire other region. But its roster of new Pokemon, especially ones not connected to older Pokemon, was... not good.

Second gen Pokémon had awful level up movelists, as bad or worse than those in R/B.
Egg moves were basically worthless for the vast majority of Pokémon.
The TM list is somehow even worse than Gen 1.
A lot of the new pokémon are bizarrely hard to find, including basically the entire line of dark Pokémon being post e4.

The remake does so much to help Gen 2 that it's not even funny. Went from hands down my least favorite games to one of my favorites.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

We're going to hit folks like Heracross, Skarmory, Donphan, Forretress and Ursaring eventually

Despite all the mediocre Pokemon in Gen II, Skarmory and Tyranitar are some of the most consistently good Pokemon since Gengar and Starmie. Tyranitar is a meta defining Pokemon back in his hayday and laughs at the notion that a 4x weakness to a common type Pokemon cannot be an excellent Pokemon. And Gamefreak just keeps buffing Skarmory every single gen. Considering they throw him into basically every single generation, I get the feeling they really like Skarmory.

 

[Toxi]

Someone looked at Murkrow and said "Yep, this is totally an appropriate late game single stage evolution"

Someone looked at Magcargo, a post-game evolution that you have to grind to level 38 to evolve, and decided it deserved a base stat total of 410.

That's less than Ratticate.

 

[Firemind]

We're going to hit folks like Heracross, Skarmory, Donphan, Forretress and Ursaring eventually

Despite all the mediocre Pokemon in Gen II, Skarmory and Tyranitar are some of the most consistently good Pokemon since Gengar and Starmie. Tyranitar is a meta defining Pokemon back in his hayday and laughs at the notion that a 4x weakness to a common type Pokemon cannot be an excellent Pokemon. And Gamefreak just keeps buffing Skarmory every single gen. Considering they throw him into basically every single generation, I get the feeling they really like Skarmory.

Well, TTar and rock types in general did get a significant boost in Gen 4. I'm pretty sure it wasn't as dominating in Gen 2's metagame.

Donphan would be so much improved if it was Ice/Ground.

Ursaring was actually good in some point in its life?

 

[Exterminieren]

Man, Gen II really is the worst.

Were it not for the inclusion of Kanto, I'm pretty sure it'd be widely remembered as the nadir of the franchise.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Well, TTar and rock types in general did get a significant boost in Gen 4. I'm pretty sure it wasn't as dominating in Gen 2's metagame.

Donphan would be so much improved if it was Ice/Ground.

Ursaring was actually good in some point in its life?

Tyranitar has always been OU. He has a fantastic movepool and great stats. He was one of the most used Pokemon in Gen II, IV and V, because Sand Stream is a ridiculous ability.

Donphan isn't a bad Pokemon at all. And is also well designed.

No, Ursaring wasn't. But it's a cool looking Pokemon and isn't downright garbage. Ursaring will at least mostly work alright in story mode (although you get it pretty late), while some Pokemon like Sunflora and Togetic have a hard time even surviving story mode. Ursaring at least feels like a final evolution, which not many Gen II final evos feel.

 

[PK Gaming]

Someone looked at Magcargo, a post-game evolution that you have to grind to level 38 to evolve, and decided it deserved a base stat total of 410.

That's less than Ratticate.

Real talk, this is why precisely I adore Gen V

With gen V, they clearly tried their to make every single Pokemon viable and distinct in their own way. With the exception of Unfezant and Watchog, every single Gen V Pokemon clearly has something going for them. From Liligant's solid stat arrangement and access Quiver Dance to Darmanitan's insane strength; they all have something that makes them worth using.

Looking back, I took for granted how far they've come with balancing Pokemon. It doesn't seem like it was a big priority in the earlier gens.

 

[Ally of Justice]

I used both Yanma and Sunflora when I played Silver for the first time. While Sunflora was not really useful, I liked its design so it stuck on my team.
I liked Yanma since the beginning, although I could not find a real use for it and, despite being in my team for most of the game, it was more like a mascot that I liked to keep on the team instead of a real team player.

Now, when Yanma got an evolution in Pearl, it was my main Pokemon for the whole game.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Man, Gen II really is the worst.

Were it not for the inclusion of Kanto, I'm pretty sure it'd be widely remembered as the nadir of the franchise.

Im postive with that. Give gold and silver the black and white approach to only pokemon in that region and...ew i don't wanna think about that

 

[Man God]

Real talk, this is why precisely I adore Gen V

With gen V, they clearly tried their to make every single Pokemon viable and distinct in their own way. With the exception of Unfezant and Watchog, every single Gen V Pokemon clearly has something going for them. From Liligant's solid stat arrangement and access Quiver Dance to Darmanitan's insane strength; they all have something that makes them worth using.

Looking back, I took for granted how far they've come with balancing Pokemon. It doesn't seem like it was a big priority in the earlier gens.

Swoobat has lower stats than Golbat and desperately needs an evolution.

 

[Firemind]

Donphan isn't a bad Pokemon at all. And is also well designed.

If it didn't have Rapid Spin, it'd have been severely outclassed by the likes of Mamoswine. Believe me, I tried to make Donphan work since its design is aces.

Pure Ground types in general are pretty awful. The only reason Hippowdon is great is because it has Sand Stream and Slack Off.

 

[Toxi]

Donphan would be so much improved if it was Ice/Ground.

Joke post?

Ice is a horrible typing. The only reason Mamoswine is able to work is because Thick Fat removes two of its weaknesses.

If it didn't have Rapid Spin, it'd have been severely outclassed by the likes of Mamoswine. Believe me, I tried to make Donphan work since its design is aces.

Pure Ground types in general are pretty awful. The only reason Hippowdon is great is because it has Sand Stream and Slack Off.

Ground is a fine type; only two weaknesses, one to an uncommon attacking type, and two resistances plus an immunity. Dugtrio has long seen use in OU and UU, and as you mentioned, Hippowdon is great. Sandslash and Marowak don't see use because they're bad Pokemon overall with bad stats, not because they're pure Ground.

The reason Donphan is outclassed is that it's slow, can't tank a special hit, and lacks attacking power outside of STAB Earthquake. It's also completely outclassed by Excadrill as a Rapid Spinner. Despite that, it's still a fine Pokemon, it's just not Smogon OU material.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Donphan has been OU in past metas.

 

[Toxi]

Donphan has been OU in past metas.

It has, I was just referring to the current one.

 

[Gengahrrr]

Not even design wise, some of the are pure useless even in game....

....but you can spell curse words with Unown

 

[Toxi]

....but you can spell curse words with Unown

DICKS!

FUCKU!

BCHPLZ

 

[Firemind]

The reason Donphan is outclassed is that it's slow, can't tank a special hit, and lacks attacking power outside of STAB Earthquake. It's also completely outclassed by Excadrill as a Rapid Spinner. Despite that, it's still a fine Pokemon, it's just not Smogon OU material.

Exactly. Pure Ground types just don't make for good tanks without recovery, so might as well go all-in and give it STAB Ice Shard to at least give it something in the dragon dominated gens of 4 and 5. Hell, Swampert has a BST of 535, has only one weakness and it's currently UU.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

! and ? would have been a good chance to make an actually decent Unown. They could have made those two have different stats and a bigger move pool.

Exactly. Pure Ground types just don't make for good tanks without recovery, so might as well go all-in and give it STAB Ice Shard to at least give it something in the dragon dominated gens of 4 and 5. Hell, Swampert has a BST of 535, has only one weakness and it's currently UU.

At heart, Donphan is a rapid spinner, so they should buff Donphan's usefulness as a Rapid Spinner. Adding Ice Type doesn't help him be a better Rapid Spinner.

 

[PK Gaming]

Swoobat has lower stats than Golbat and desperately needs an evolution.

True, but its ability Simple doubles the stat boosts that it gains. So when it uses Calm Mind it gets +2 Spa and SpD, and it's fairly fast too. It could absolutely use an evolution, but it isn't a throwaway Pokemon.

 

[Firemind]

Also, Thick Fat gives Mamoswine an Ice resistance as opposed to removing an Ice weakness since Ice resists Ice at least. I mean, Donphan has Sturdy.

Ice is a horrible type, but Ground is one of the better pairings since it makes it neutral to Rock.

Edit: Also Ground has three weaknesses.

 

[Aaronrules380]

Johto had a hard life.


The second gen is usually brought up as one of the best gens as far as game play. Which it is. A beautiful region with nice mechanics like day/night and a massive post game through an entire other region. But its roster of new Pokemon, especially ones not connected to older Pokemon, was... not good.

Second gen is super overrated in all those regards. Especially if we're not referring to the remakes. Gen 2's only real notable advances over gen 1 was realizing that lumping special attack and defense into on stat was stupid and fixing that and introducing breeding. Gen 2 has the most overrated post game ever, since Kanto in gen 2 really isn't fun beyond nostalgia (Every trainer there is laughably weak compared to the elite 4 you had to beat to get there, and that includes the old gym leaders). Only Red is really noteworthy. I'd take the battle frontier and other such facilities that are designed to give you an actual challenge over Gen 2 Kanto any day. Hell, I'd even say the battle maison is more fun in some ways than anything gen 2 provided post-game wise (Though admittedly, gen VI could've benefitted from some exploration focused post game stuff as well). Day night was really overrated, since it honestly is just an artificial barrier for people with limited time to play, plus it actually didn't really affect many pokemon anyways