Eh, DOA5 has the best gameplay of the series. Like Ninja Gaiden got worse but DOA was always held back by Itagaki's love of the mythical ninja and his unwillingness to work with the competitive scene.
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Itagaki (DOA Creator) comments on Dead or Alive Xtreme 3 not coming to the West
- Thread starter miku
- Start date
Eh, DOA5 has the best gameplay of the series. Like Ninja Gaiden got worse but DOA was always held back by Itagaki's love of the mythical ninja and his unwillingness to work with the competitive scene.
Ok, there are some extenuating situations that I admittedly should consider. Sorry if that line came across as insensitive, but hopefully you understand what I meant, and the type of comparisons that people are drawing that I'm referring to.
Nah, I get what he means in regards to creating, rather than just iterating... I just think that in this case, it's leaves a pretty wide opening for a "Devil's Third, lol" response, so I'd probably not want to draw attention to it whilst making my attack. If you leave and then make a Bayonetta, then sure, throw that at them... or at least time the jabs for when they're releasing Ninja Gaiden 3s.
With that said though, I also don't think there's anything wrong with iterating on a product if it still has an audience that wants more. I'm glad that Virtua Fighter wasn't (well, immediately) discarded once Yu Suzuki left AM2, and I'm happy with what 343i's been able to do with Halo once Bungie moved on.
I'm assuming you've never played Sega Manx TT Superbike?
ClutchAnderson
Member
Pure Solid Gold! Stay Rull Itagaki :3
I mean, it depends how long your 'best games of 2015' list is, but essentially I agree.
I finished Devil's Third right after I finished MGSV, thoroughly enjoyed myself, and would go back to Devil's Third multiplayer before I went back to MGO3. (Though I'm waiting to see how the PC version turns out before I decide whether to put more time into the WiiU version)
On topic: His comments are nothing that unusual, to be honest. It's a young industry and as time goes on we'll have more and more old hands talking openly about the companies and games that they've left behind. The rest is just Itagaki's own style mixed through the filter of two languages.
Back to off topic: Just wait and see what Kojima has to say about MGSVI.
To Far Away Times
Member
Dude made DOA and Ninja Gaiden. He gets a pass on just about all of the crazy.
Devil's Third
Is coming out in the West. ( ͡º ͜ʖ ͡º)
ShockingAlberto
Member
"Itagaki is told about situation, makes it about himself" is a pretty good summary of his Facebook.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
Nah, I wasn't offended and knew what you meant. Just being difficult.
Though I do think mental disability can give some context to certain characters as it does with Lymle in Star Ocean 4. Not in this case though.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Sounds about right. He is so salty that DOA5 is by far the most popular entry in that series
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Never change, Itagaki.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
They didn't make it for the west in the first place.
Why do you think the polls were only for Japan and Asia?
rockman zx
Member
Even as a fan of Itagaki I think this rant is hilarious. To begin with, we don't know if the jet ski mini game will be in.
redmetal86
Member
Galapagosian Lolita Complexed Chicken....sounds like one of those gfycat filenames.
Mechanized
Member
I believe he is more so commenting on the fact that he was able to move on and create a new original game, whereas Team Ninja is just making updated versions of his past work.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
He probably gets annoyed by how industrialized the industry is. Ninja Gaiden on Xbox was one of his impacts on our western market. There was little to no scrutiny against it. DOA and DOAX came out and the market didn't necessarily discuss its impact. It was mostly something to talk about with friends.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Itagaki doing an angry Boomhauer impression
Pro from Dover
Member
Keep being you, Itagaki.
The thing is, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone at all who does that in real life. My 5 year old sister doesn't even do that.
Marie is a fictional character. You shouldn't need to find anyone like her in the real world to justify her existance.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
I can't even tell what argument he's trying to make (I... *guess* he's calling out KT more so than the West?) this but I love how rambling it is and how he works in a Devil's Third callout at the same time.
We need more running commentaries on gaming like this.
We need more running commentaries on gaming like this.
I never understood the shit he got for devil's third, tbqh.
That game went through development hell like people who haven't worked in software can't even imagine. Two different publishers, one of which went bankrupt in the middle of the games development, and a middle ground in between the two in which Itagaki paid the staff himself to keep them still employed while he sorted out how to save the game. Not to mention the platform changes....
The fact that it came out at all and is even mildly okay in any way is kind of amazing when you think of the logistics involved, really.
Itagaki still has me if he ever gets anything else going. Hopefully he sticks with PC development as the stability of the platform will give him much better leverage going forward with whatever he does. I know console fans will get pissy at me saying this, but at the end of the day for an independent developer the console cycle stuff and funding is just killer for a mid-tier studio these days.
That game went through development hell like people who haven't worked in software can't even imagine. Two different publishers, one of which went bankrupt in the middle of the games development, and a middle ground in between the two in which Itagaki paid the staff himself to keep them still employed while he sorted out how to save the game. Not to mention the platform changes....
The fact that it came out at all and is even mildly okay in any way is kind of amazing when you think of the logistics involved, really.
Itagaki still has me if he ever gets anything else going. Hopefully he sticks with PC development as the stability of the platform will give him much better leverage going forward with whatever he does. I know console fans will get pissy at me saying this, but at the end of the day for an independent developer the console cycle stuff and funding is just killer for a mid-tier studio these days.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Yes.
rockman zx
Member
Indeed. The game is average with some cool ideas but is not like it was developed under "healthy conditions". I'm pretty sure Itagaki and his team still has what it takes to make great action games, sadly they may not get the chance to prove it.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I fucking love this man... haha.
Fried Food
Banned
don't know why people are saying he is crazy. A lot of that is coming from the translation. What he is communicating makes sense.
formasymphonic
Member
For everyone who thinks he is crazy, the fact that he could drop a phrase as apt as Galapagosian Lolita Complex Chicken just shows how deep his insight on this is lol.
So... Who's gonna be the unlucky gaffer who earns this as a tag?
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Legit question: What does the phrase mean, in your opinion? I can kinda ballpark it but I'm still confused.
I'd say it's just Japan's love of girls acting all cutesy, further exaggerated by a series that doesn't shy away from silly things.
As I mentioned in a follow-up post, every character in DOA is an exaggerated portrayal of their archetype. Marie's mannerisms are exaggerated children's mannerisms, as you'd very regularly see in fictional media to make a character immediately identifiable as a child. Nobody really knows anyone that acts exactly like any Dead or Alive character, but we can recognise the personalities they're attempting to portray. Ayane is the typical defiant bratty teenager, Jann-Lee is the overly serious, silent tough guy, Hitomi and Lei-Fang are the cheery, energetic. "friends with everyone" college girls, Marie Rose is a child. Every single aspect of her design communicates this other than the age that was set at what it was for the obvious reasons I've detailed above.
It's not about needing to find real-world people like her to justify her existence.. it's that the character appeals to common understandings, so the comparison is unavoidable. Plus, you have to remember that all this starts with someone claiming that they actually do know someone like Marie Rose, that's a full adult... usually simply because they're short.
Ivan Amiibo
Banned
everyone knows the distinction
Nah dude he ONLY made one good game /devil's third shit brigade
he does get a pass, but I'm more concerned for his mental well being. Even if this is funny, it's not a good look to respond to everything team ninja dog does.
formasymphonic
Member
I don't know how much the rest of you know about Itagaki-insult culture (I'm an expert), but
Itagaki basically made commentary on Japanese devs increasingly catering/pandering to a hyper-niche domestic demographic (Otaku). He simultaneously demonstrates an awareness of just how different that niche is to the rest of the world. This is analogous to the evolutionary phenomenon noted by Charles Darwin as he studied species in the Galápagos Islands in the 1830's. Darwin noted how life on those islands secluded from the rest of the world had grown to be hyper acclimatised to that specific region and very different from anywhere else he had seen.
In DOA's case, this can be seen in the absurd amount of highly sexualised costume DLC, the new characters they have brought in and for DOAX3 because of that poll thing they did a while back for characters who would be in the game. For DOA5 this has resulted in a character (Marie Rose) with an aesthetic designed to appeal to those who are thirsty for characters who are younger in appearance. These people could be referred to as having a Lolita complex (or colloquially, "Lolicons"). Now I won't go down the "she's 18, she just looks young" road because I'm only explaining what his insult means.
DOA has always had "sexy" female characters but the last few games have definitely ramped up the "fanservice" and tried to cater more and more to Otaku interests. Now it's poster girl is a Lolita. Itagaki is calling out Tecmo for willingly taking the franchise further into the direction they did, but then turning around and being afraid to release outside of their metaphorical Galápagos Island because of fear of the backlash.
He distilled all of that into a mere 4 words. Galapagosian Lolita Complex Chicken. GOAT tier ether.
sixteen-bit
Member
This is a real good explanation of what he meant. It makes sense now.
n00bsauce87
Member
So I guess what play Asia was getting at wasn't a selling ploy after all?
Didn't Devil's Third have like the love interest be a girl who couldn't age past her teenage years? I remember reading that in the review thread.
EDIT:
Found the post.
Maybe it's bollocks tho.
formasymphonic
Member
I wouldn't know. I haven't played Devil's Third. If anything though it doesn't really take away from his point, he went down that road and he stuck to it. In fact he even had to ouch to get the game out in more regions "by his will" IIRC.
The point is that no one made Koei-Tecmo go down the road they did except the pursuit of money. They followed it as far as they could take it and are still going down that road. Now they are backtracking because they are afraid of a fear of culture clash backlash and that's what Itagaki is calling out. (He's also calling them out for focusing on that instead of innovating but that's beyond the scope of what his GLCC comment is for).
Turin Turambar
Member
First time I checked out his facebook. He uh... likes Putin?
He likes Colin Powell too. It makes sense.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
Can it be considered backtracking if they never made the game for the west in the first place? From the very beginning they've been saying for Japan and Asia only
I think so, because DOAX3 is still tied to DOA in general, and they took the series as a whole further in this direction. The games always attracted attention as a result of the female cast, but it was never like it is today. A DOAX offshoot of DOA4 or DOA3 (i.e. the first two games), was a different prospect to a DOAX offshoot of DOA5LR.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
That actually made way more sense than I expected. My hat is off to you, sir. At least we now have a fun term for people freaking out at Marie Rose.
And to reiterate my earlier post: Never change, Itagaki.
formasymphonic
Member
Ok backtracking is the wrong (too strong?) word. But doesn't change the fear they are feeling over potentially releasing DOAX3 in the west. Everything I otherwise said still stands. In any case, all I am doing is explaining his GLCC comment.
Ah, actually the GLCC is in this case Koei-Tecmo/Team Ninja, who are happy to use someone like her for their benefit in their region, but afraid of what using her outside of could mean — its not people who dislike Rose.
Dead on.
To elaborate a little further, the Galapagos Island metaphor for Japanese culture is not a new idea. Galapagos Syndrome is something that Japanese pundits coined to describe Japanese products hyper-specialized to their particular market that can't succeed abroad. It's the dark counterpoint to the cultural meme of Japanese exceptionalism, where the things that Japan's culture developed in isolation on their island provide unique advantages compared to the rest of the world. Whatever its truth, many Japanese believe that certain aspects of their culture are inherently impossible to export overseas.
One could argue that following the release of Dead or Alive 5, Team Ninja further specialized their product towards the Japanese otaku market (for example with Marie Rose, pandering to people with Lolita Complex), beyond what the series had done in the past. Then, with Xtreme 3, they turn around and cry about how their newly-specialized product can't survive outside of its unique environment. They're Galapagosian Lolita Complex Chickens, afraid of the outside world.
Remarkably precise word choice.