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[Night Angel]

The people saying Microsoft needs to create new IPs and first party development to fix the Xbone forget how long it takes to make a game. Even if they started immediately, it would be at least 3 years at best before it was ready. The gen will be over for Microsoft by that time. They would be better off focusing that development on the next Xbox's games because it will be time for it to launch by then.

People have been saying it for years, and people have responded with posts like yours for years. They need to start sometime, yes? They need to stop building studios only to farm them or for their legacy titles, even killing new projects to make LEGACY TITLE 7.

Excusing their lack of new IPs because things take time doesn't make sense because that excuse always appears to be valid, and thus it will never be a good time to make new IPs.

 

[Bgamer90]

I could see 8th gen being a little different and instead of being down next year like 5th gen was, it could hold steady. Next year could see $299 consoles all year, and $250 deals on black friday.

Agree. There were still games coming out on 4th gen back during the mid '90s, but the difference between 4th and 5th was far greater thanks to 5th gen being the first 3D gen.

This gen is a bit different since it took longer for the PS4 and Xbox One to be viewed as "necessary" to play the latest games.

 

[RealityCheque]

No exclusives of any real note and ps4 won.

Damn, there's literally nothing that MS can do to stop sony. Halo, ROTR (the bigger crying shame here) and still its not enough. This could be a watershed moment in the generation.

 

[kswiston]

Another interesting tweet from ZhugeEX. Current gen has been similar to the PS1 and N64 gen when it comes to North American sales.

This is only because of the systems that launched each gen. Starting gen 8 with a solo year of Wii U is going to make it look bad in comparison to gen 6 (which started with the PS2).

 

[DriftingSpirit]

People have been saying it for years, and people have responded with posts like yours for years. They need to start sometime, yes? They need to stop building studios only to farm them or for their legacy titles, even killing new projects to make LEGACY TITLE 7.

Excusing their lack of new IPs because things take time doesn't make sense because that excuse always appears to be valid, and thus it will never be a good time to make new IPs.

MS would need to expand their brand before they can really get anything out of those new IP anyway. Just having US and UK as the main support for the new titles isn't going to get them anywhere.

 

[madstarr12]

Will Gen 8 be up or down next year compared to this one? I suppose people hope for it to be up.

And Lol, poor Dreamcast...

 

[spatenfloot]

People have been saying it for years, and people have responded with posts like yours for years. They need to start sometime, yes? They need to stop building studios only to farm them or for their legacy titles, even killing new projects to make LEGACY TITLE 7.

Excusing their lack of new IPs because things take time doesn't make sense because that excuse always appears to be valid, and thus it will never be a good time to make new IPs.

I am not excusing it. I am saying that even if they did, it wouldn't help the Xbone at this point.

If you contrast it with Sony's position, they could have another end of life Last of Us situation with a new IP due to the large install base late in the gen.

 

[Tobor]

The only thing Microsoft can do at this point is tread water until next gen.

 

[slavesnyder]

I am not excusing it. I am saying that even if they did, it wouldn't help the Xbone at this point.

If you cannot make your own exclusives, you have to convince 3rd parties.
But this should be difficult now with lower install base in the US, very, very low install base in ROTW and the bad example of 3rd party treatment called tomb raider.

The only thing Microsoft can do at this point is tread water until next gen.

they can only hope VR is a fad. otherwise this gen might last longer then they hope.

 

[Conduit]

Doesn't XBOX One currently perform better than its 80+ million predecessor? Why wouldn't it reach at least 60+ million units at the end of its life cycle?

80 mil. are WW numbers. So, Xbone does not perform better than X360 WW.

 

[spatenfloot]

If you cannot make your own exclusives, you have to convince 3rd parties.
But this should be difficult now with lower install base in the US, very, very low install base in ROTW and the bad example of 3rd party treatment called tomb raider.

Yes, that is their dilemma now. Keep throwing money at a bad situation or drop it to focus on the Nextbox.

 

[Tobor]

If you cannot make your own exclusives, you have to convince 3rd parties.
But this should be difficult now with lower install base in the US, very, very low install base in ROTW and the bad example of 3rd party treatment called tomb raider.



they can only hope VR is a fad. otherwise this gen might last longer then they hope.

They're screwed on VR. By next gen they'll have a headset ready. Until then...

 

[Kyougar]

The people saying Microsoft needs to create new IPs and first party development to fix the Xbone forget how long it takes to make a game. Even if they started immediately, it would be at least 3 years at best before it was ready. The gen will be over for Microsoft by that time. They would be better off focusing that development on the next Xbox's games because it will be time for it to launch by then.

Maybe it is to late but if they dont, they have to sell their box for the ones who dont care about Exclusives.

3 years is enough for many different games and genres for the next Generation.

but Microsoft wont do that, they will limp along.

 

[Maniel]

Yes, that is their dilemma now. Keep throwing money at a bad situation or drop it to focus on the Nextbox.

Sounds like the same problem that Nintendo has had recently. Maybe Microsoft will wait until Nintendo launches the NX and sees if it is successful to decide whether Nintendo's strategy of winding down Wii U and 3ds development was correct. Microsoft could then react accordingly.

Edit: Now that I think about it some more, Microsoft is in a very different situation than Nintendo. They don't have the same urgency to release their next system because they have solid third party support and strong US sales, so I could see them just riding out this generation.

 

[slavesnyder]

They're screwed on VR. By next gen they'll have a headset ready. Until then...

What headset?

 

[Tobor]

What headset?

A VR headset. They'll have one to compete With Sony ready for the launch of the next console.

 

[Bgamer90]

No exclusives of any real note and ps4 won.

Damn, there's literally nothing that MS can do to stop sony. Halo, ROTR (the bigger crying shame here) and still its not enough. This could be a watershed moment in the generation.

Ehh... This would be brushing off the PS4 having Star Wars marketing on top of the same $299 price. Both systems did better than the top selling console this time last year which means that many people feel both consoles have better games now vs. back in 2014.

 

[King_Moc]

Doesn't XBOX One currently perform better than its 80+ million predecessor? Why wouldn't it reach at least 60+ million units at the end of its life cycle?

The Xbox 360 started out slowly compared to what it would eventually do. The XB1 has come out with all of the brand awareness that the 360 brought, and the best it could do is a bit better than the 360's initial fairly weak sales. It looks like its year 2 sales in the USA are probably going to fall in comparison to the year one sales, when they should be growing, and its performance elsewhere in the world is poor. Where you're seeing a potential 60m+ sales is a mystery, unless something very major happens.

 

[hawk2025]

When talking exclusives, it wouldbe fun to sum up all the sales and see how the full number of software stacks up.

When we see something like Until Dawn selling basically as much as RotTR on its first month, I suspect the exclusives narrative doesn't stack up much, if at all.

Sounds like the same problem that Nintendo has had recently. Maybe Microsoft will wait until Nintendo launches the NX and sees if it is successful to decide whether Nintendo's strategy of winding down Wii U and 3ds development was correct. Microsoft could then react accordingly.

Not like nintendo, because thankfully third party software still carries a respectable share, especially in the US.

I think they are somewhat trying to not only build more first party studios, but also finance new games through Platinum, Armature, etc.

The trouble is that it has been a bit of a mixed bag or slower than expected. Twisted pixel became a bust, Team Dakota released and abandoned the awful Project Spark, a bunch of smaller ones have delivered little, or we found out they are really more geared towards hololens or smaller stuff.

The Coalition may well end up delivering, but that sure took a while.

I like their current strategy of trying to differentiate the platform more by contracting projects from relatively cheaper teams like Platinum and Armature. It makes sense.

The one thing that bothers me with Microsoft's strategy is the move towards microtransactions is happening pretty fast. They've clearly been experimenting since launch with different approaches, and they have all been terrible IMO -- although I realize most people disagree, especially in the Forza games. I wish their customers pushed back more.

 

[spatenfloot]

Maybe it is to late but if they dont, they have to sell their box for the ones who dont care about Exclusives.

3 years is enough for many different games and genres for the next Generation.

but Microsoft wont do that, they will limp along.

But why would someone who doesn't care about exclusives buy an Xbone now, if multiplats run better on the PS4 and his friends are more likely to own a PS4 as the market leader? The only reason would be price, but that would require Microsoft to lose a ton of money by slashing prices any more.

 

[Intrigue]

No exclusives of any real note and ps4 won.

Damn, there's literally nothing that MS can do to stop sony. Halo, ROTR (the bigger crying shame here) and still its not enough. This could be a watershed moment in the generation.

Equal playing field really hurt MS this generation ( ie: launched same time not 18months ahead )

On top of that idiotic business decisions doesn't help. While TV services and other integrated stuff is "cool", it is not what makes a gamer pick a console, or abandoning another brand for that matter.

 

[Intrigue]

But why would someone who doesn't care about exclusives buy an Xbone now, if multiplats run better on the PS4 and his friends are more likely to own a PS4 as the market leader?

I met someone today who bought xbox one because its american brand so its better, yet he drives a honda. =)

 

[Kyougar]

But why would someone who doesn't care about exclusives buy an Xbone now, if multiplats run better on the PS4 and his friends are more likely to own a PS4 as the market leader? The only reason would be price, but that would require Microsoft to lose a ton of money by slashing prices any more.

Exactly?

Thats the whole issue. Why should I buy a Xbone if I dont like Halo. Gears and Forza?

 

[Bgamer90]

Equal playing field really hurt MS this generation ( ie: launched same time not 12 months ahead )

On top of that idiotic business decisions doesn't help. While TV services and other integrated stuff is "cool", it is not what makes a gamer pick a console, or abandoning another brand for that matter.

This (bold) is definitely playing a bigger role than many think in my opinion.

 

[slavesnyder]

A VR headset. They'll have one to compete With Sony ready for the launch of the next console.

Okay, first I thought you meant hololens.
Maybe they develop an own headset or team up with occulus. we'll see.

Another thing:
Just imagine Mojang came up with a really cool VR version of MineCraft.
What will happen?

a) MS will release it on all VR solutions
b) MS will release it on all VR solutions minus PSVR
c) MS will lock it in a wooden box and put it into their gigantic warehouse

 

[gundamkyoukai]

This (bold) is definitely playing a bigger role than many think in my opinion.

I think people that follow sales should have seen this coming .
Once Sony launch around the same time and have around the same price MS will never win WW .
That is a lost cause .

 

[slavesnyder]

I think people that follow sales should have seen this coming .
Once Sony launch around the same time and have around the same price MS will never win WW .
That is a lost cause.

Nah. With the more powerful console, a concept that is not fucking consumers, a focus on games and some well-chosen exclusives and marketing partnerships it could have played out differently.
I just don't like this thought that the outcome has been totally clear to everyone except me from the start (before the first presentations).

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

So Xbox One is the iPhone of the Console space? ....

Microsoft must diversify their portfolio and not try to set all on Megafranchises.
Halo, gears and Forza were their main IP's for a long time. That is a very narrow group of gamers. 2 of these games have overwhelming opponents with Call of Duty and GT. that wouldnt be so bad if they were only 2 of 30 "unique" IP's in a generation but they are essentially 2 of 3. And we dont know if Gears is healthy.

the 360 DID try. but these were one-offs and they were quickly canned after the JRPG's tanked.

microsoft should have invested in new Studios with new IP's or old IP's and work on establishing a wide Area of different type of Games and Genres. Don't make everything AAA. Do smaller A and AA games in addition to AAA Games.

It's not even actually about the scale, it's about the style. People are conflating AAA with a particular style of game, and that's mostly the industry's fault, Microsoft included, but technically speaking it isn't or shouldn't be that way.

MS's 1st party stuff is focusing on the same themes and genres as the big AAA multiplats, but those same big AAA multiplats always probably come off as more of the "real deal" to customers, and have brand quality MS's offerings can't match (neither can Sony's or Nintendo's for that matter, but they're better at pushing divergent themes and sub-styles in their AAA games that make them stand out from the traditional EA/Activision/Ubisoft bunch).

Stuff like Sunset Overdrive, Quantum Break and Scalebound are steps in the right direction, so hopefully they take cues on that and go from there.

 

[Bgamer90]

I think people that follow sales should have seen this coming .
Once Sony launch around the same time and have around the same price MS will never win WW .
That is a lost cause.

I knew the PS4 would get #1 worldwide as soon as the PS4 reveal event was annouced. It was a sign that the PS4 was releasing during the same year as the Xbox One (as MS didn't state their reveal event yet at the time). Xbox One wasn't going to get any time to establish itself without major same-gen competition like the Xbox 360 did.

 

[kswiston]

I think people that follow sales should have seen this coming .
Once Sony launch around the same time and have around the same price MS will never win WW .
That is a lost cause.

I think that the expectation a year or two before this gen launched was that the 360 had established Xbox as the premier brand of consoles in the US, and that the momentum gained would carry forward.

Alas, most gamers are not brand loyal. A lot of those that dumped Sony for Xbox last gen jumped ship again this gen when it became evident that PS4 was going to perform better on multiplats. Pre-launch FUD and $499 didn't help in those first months either.

 

[Massa]

Once Sony launch around the same time and have around the same price MS will never win WW .
That is a lost cause .

That's glossing over the excellent work that Microsoft did with the Xbox 360. With Xbox Live they had the better vision for the most important new feature of last gen, they designed the better machine (despite the one year gap), they had the better developer relations. It wasn't just a matter of Sony being late and expensive.

 

[Bgamer90]

That's glossing over the excellent work that Microsoft did with the Xbox 360. With Xbox Live they had the better vision for the most important new feature of last gen, they designed the better machine (despite the one year gap), they had the better developer relations. It wasn't just a matter of Sony being late and expensive.

PS2 absolutely crushed the Xbox in America though. PS3 would have done much better in America if it launched at the same time as the Xbox 360 in my opinion just due to brand recognition and hype.

PS3 had a whole lot of hype in 2005 -- more than the 360. It was the 2006 E3 event that made many say, "You know what... The 360 doesn't look that bad."

 

[heidern]

So you think the NX is going to be along the lines of a beefier Roku or Vita TV in terms of price? Hadn't considered that - I could see that strategy working. Make the console so goddamn cheap that people will just buy the damn thing.

I see this as a possibility, but the problem is they are competing against against free games on mobiles and tablets. Even if they gave the console away for free, people might not pay $60 for games, they might not be willing to pay $40 or even $20. In other words the casual market for dedicated consoles might no longer exist. If that is the case the choice is either to make the console a satellite for the handheld as I described or compete with Sony and MS on the high end.

There is an x-factor which is that if they can come up something amazing like the Wiimote then they can sell it even at high prices people will be willing to pay for it and they can achieve Wii like sales. But this is an unknown so we'll have to wait for the unveil.

If they choose to compete on the high end then they need to release a console that is three years ahead of PS4/XB1 and isn't gimped with something like mini-discs. So you'd looking at a system with 16 to 32 GB or RAM for example. They'd also need a competitive online service. This would be a recognition that the big western third party games are the core of the market and they would put those third party games in the limelight more than they have done in the past with third party games. Personally, I think it would be easy to get full third party support if they managed to get the right hardware.

 

[slavesnyder]

Okay.
PS4 299€ in germany.
Just saw an ad on TV.

 

[ps3ud0]

Its really hard to provide sound reasoning how to turn it around so that their next console isnt lumbered with XOs legacy (whatever form that is). Honestly it escapes me that with 14 years they havent built a global brand with a healthy diverse IP portfolio. Focusing predominantly the US irritates/alienates a far larger prospective consumer base.

I do hope (actually I require) they keep supporting XO more than they supported the X360 later in life - its a significant factor why I was far more open to the PS4 because of Sony throwing out quality games on the PS3 even after the PS4 was announced.

If they do make another piece of hardware if that isnt the strongest amongst its competitors then...

ps3ud0 8)

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

That's glossing over the excellent work that Microsoft did with the Xbox 360. With Xbox Live they had the better vision for the most important new feature of last gen, they designed the better machine (despite the one year gap), they had the better developer relations. It wasn't just a matter of Sony being late and expensive.

Microsoft did an excellent job with the 360, but let's not really ignore the fact that Sony had an absolutely abysmal plan/launch/price/OS in place for the PS3. Part of the 360's success is on its own merits, but a huge part was simply because of the massive blunders Sony made.

The other poster is correct, even with neither MS or Sony making any major mistakes, Sony will always dominate WW. The brand is simply too strong and entrenched into the consumer psyche.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Nah. With the more powerful console, a concept that is not fucking consumers, a focus on games and some well-chosen exclusives and marketing partnerships it could have played out differently.
I just don't like this thought that the outcome has been totally clear to everyone except me from the start (before the first presentations).

With all the mistakes Sony made last gen and they still out sold MS .
Maybe they would have not been losing by so much but i never saw them winning .

I think that the expectation a year or two before this gen launched was that the 360 had established Xbox as the premier brand of consoles in the US, and that the momentum gained would carry forward.

Alas, most gamers are not brand loyal. A lot of those that dumped Sony for Xbox last gen jumped ship again this gen when it became evident that PS4 was going to perform better on multiplats. Pre-launch FUD and $499 didn't help in those first months either.

People that think MS was going to beat Sony 2 to 1 in the USA again were dreaming .
Even if they were the premier brand things would have been closer in the usa this gen .

That's glossing over the excellent work that Microsoft did with the Xbox 360. With Xbox Live they had the better vision for the most important new feature of last gen, they designed the better machine (despite the one year gap), they had the better developer relations. It wasn't just a matter of Sony being late and expensive.

MS did a great a good job no one would say otherwise .
But the 2 two major things they had over sony was not going to happen again this gen .
Price and launch date and that was always going to be major factor .

 

[heidern]

Alas, most gamers are not brand loyal. A lot of those that dumped Sony for Xbox last gen jumped ship again this gen when it became evident that PS4 was going to perform better on multiplats. Pre-launch FUD and $499 didn't help in those first months either.

This doesn't necessarily mean that gamers are not brand loyal. Maybe these gamers are brand loyal to Sony but they couldn't afford a PS3 so switched to 360 out of practicality. With PS4 launching at an affordable price they revert to their brand loyalty.
Edit: Hmmm, maybe many switched from 360+PSP to PS4+mobile.

 

[Loris146]

Okay.
PS4 299€ in germany.
Just saw an ad on TV.

Maybe Sony will hit 18 ML shipped at the end of the fiscal year ( March 2015- March 2016).

 

[Intrigue]

This doesn't necessarily mean that gamers are not brand loyal. Maybe these gamers are brand loyal to Sony but they couldn't afford a PS3 so switched to 360 out of practicality. With PS4 launching at an affordable price they revert to their brand loyalty.
Edit: Hmmm, maybe many switched from 360+PSP to PS4+mobile.

I think it is more that the 18months early made people jump on the xbox wagon, because they gamer in them made them "feel" that they missed out.

Especially in "richer" countries like the US where you will find more people able to afford both.

 

[Birgitte2004]

they designed the better machine (despite the one year gap)

They designed a machine with a known hardware deficiency that was going to kill the majority of 360s in the wild until it was redesigned, and while it was easier to develop for I think timed proved the system was weaker if people bothered to take advantage of the power of the PS3.

It also didn't include a lot of built-in features that the PS3 had.

I don't know what makes you think the 360 was a "better designed machine".

 

[N.Domixis]

Sony by default should always win WW. Unless something like wii happens again or they fail at launching the system like ps3.

 

[slavesnyder]

I think it is more that the 18months early made people jump on the xbox wagon, because they gamer in them made them "feel" that they missed out.

Especially in "richer" countries like the US where you will find more people able to afford both.

They had Bioshock and Mass Effect.
This is the kind of exclusives that convince people to join the party.
Also Condemned.

 

[DieH@rd]

They had Bioshock and Mass Effect.
This is the kind of exclusives that convince people to join the party.
Also Condemned.

You forget the 1st real nextgen game - Oblivion. It came out ~ half a year before PS3.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Sony by default should always win WW. Unless something like wii happens again or they fail at launching the system like ps3.

In the late 80s people said the very same about Nintendo.

 

[Fredrik]

Nintendo released the Wii U. A console that was, in many ways, on par with the 360 and PS3, but 6 years too late. Why do you think the NX will be any different?

Because it has failed and they plan to end the generation early. Why would they jump start next gen only to launch another underpowered console? Sure, I guess they could try to introduce a new gimmick and bank on that instead of power but is the market there for something like that? They know that we all want a powerful Nintendo console for core games. Not even soccer moms want another Wii, that market is gone.

 

[slavesnyder]

You forget the 1st real nextgen game - Oblivion. It came out ~ half a year before PS3.

Right you are.
Plus indie stuff like braid and limbo.
They had such a great library of 3rd party exclusives.
Edit: GTA 4 DLC, too.

 

[Acquiescence]

Because it has failed and they plan to end the generation early. Why would they jump start next gen only to launch another underpowered console? Sure, I guess they could try to introduce a new gimmick and bank on that instead of power but is the market there for something like that? They know that we all want a powerful Nintendo console for core games. Not even soccer moms want another Wii, that market is gone.

At the same time, I have a really hard time seeing Nintendo splurge on the amount of cash needed to compete with Sony and Microsoft by releasing a console with similar specs. They've been immensely tight-fisted with their money since the Gamecube generation ended, and I just don't see that changing anytime soon.

 

[Melchiah]

Right you are.
Plus indie stuff like braid and limbo.
They had such a great library of 3rd party exclusives.
Edit: GTA 4 DLC, too.

They did have a parity clause last gen as well. The only difference is, that back then it actually worked to their advantage.

 

[Conduit]

I think people that follow sales should have seen this coming .
Once Sony launch around the same time and have around the same price MS will never win WW .
That is a lost cause .

But PS3 launched a year later after X360 worldwide and it was more expensive and.....