radios shipping overview
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It's a lot harder to explain away when she's the cover girl for a game whose primary function is to encourage the player to leer. All the marketing so far points in that direction. Context is key.
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Shuhei Yoshida: Western more focused on Japanese games, problems with DOAX3
- Thread starter miku
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It's a lot harder to explain away when she's the cover girl for a game whose primary function is to encourage the player to leer. All the marketing so far points in that direction. Context is key.
FF Seraphim
Member
What the fuck did I just look at... God damn that is highly NSFW. I guess Japan has no problems with it but yeah that won't fly in the US at all.
You don't think having all those fanservice DLC costumes in DoA 5 is comparable? It's not like fighting in swimsuits or a gym outfit has a different context other than being for titillation.
Agreed, the Japanese should be ashamed of themselves. In America we use flesh and blood girls like Miley Cyrus.
And Miley Cyrus doesn't get any criticism?
Andrefpvs
Member
Ahahaha!
thats true, however I think that the brand recognition has an impact in said "controversy" I mean, people that might not be into games have at least an idea of what is DOA and are probably clueless on something like Melty Blood or Vanguard Princess
Melty blood is an anime titty game?
Welp seems someone else is clueless lol.
Augemitbutter
Member
someone tell shu that dragon's crown was pretty well received and the west is a little bigger than just NA.
thank you
thank you
DOAX3 would certainly be profitable over here... far moreso than some games TecmoKoei actually is localising. If they were simply worried about sales, then it would be seeing at the very least a digital release. The game has almost no dialogue to translate (and they've done that anyway for the Asia release), and the DLC model has been allowing them to sell multiple $100 batches to many of their dedicated fanbase. A game designed specifically to showcase the sort of content they've been selling in DOA5 would just be free money. They're not hesitant due to profitablbility. They're hesitant because it'll draw endless reactions along the lines of:
This is the cultural difference. Something like this (Marie Rose) is no big thing in Japan (hell, there's a huge under 15 swimsuit modelling industry over there), but over here? That's going to cause some serious problems.
It's a completely different matter having such a character in a fighter. She did draw some attention as a result of certain costumes, but on average she'd probably just been seen as a Lucky Chloe or whatever... it's a completely different matter when they game is selling itself almost entirely on the premise of ogling the characters, whilst making her the cover girl, and giving her the sort of outfits that they actually made an attempt to avoid her having in DOA5LR.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
People remember the worst criticisms, yet forget the praise sometimes. It happens on GAF all the time.
They could just put all the other girls on the cover of the game alongside her and Honoka for the western version, if they didn't want her to appear to be the main focus of the game or whatever. I honestly don't think there would be much of an issue if it were localized, stuff like Senran Kagura, Criminal Girls etc. is hardly talked about by the gaming press for more than a week or so after it releases.
Terareflection
Member
Some people here consider anything below 90 shit.
radios shipping overview
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I think the ship has sailed on DOAX3 getting a relatively quiet US release, if it ever did come west. Ironically, it's been pretty much Streisanded by Play-Asia and the gators.
Criminal Girls was straight up banned for discussion here... consider that for a moment. Just because there are other companies willing to deal with the reaction to such games (and TK has received offers from some willing to publish it for them), doesn't mean that TK themselves are willing to take the chance.. especially considering that they likely want to still continue selling mainline DOA here, and probably wouldn't want whatever controversies DOAX3 would bring to then be associated with future DOA releases. Sure, you could put other characters on the cover.. but the game is so obvious in its intentions that simply having the character and these outfits will prevent it going under the radar to the extent DOA5LR did as a fighting game first and foremost. If they were to release it here, they would be safer removing that character, rather than attempting to hide her... because hiding her in a game like this (which the sharing options we have today) is simply not going to work. at all.
I think Shu was referring to a couple of low review scores that were extremely low and they seemed to be low not because of the gameplay or story, but rather just because the writers didn't like the art and how females were portrayed.
Yup no problems showing T&A and portraying women that way in movies. But they're real that's why it's ok!
Yup no problems showing T&A and portraying women that way in movies. But they're real that's why it's ok!
well, aside from the "waifus", Melty Blood does not contain boobage at all, but there is the VN Tsukihime which was rated 18+ and contained sex scenes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsukihime
If they wanted it to sell at all, I don't think removing the character that was at the top or close of the popularity polls both in Japan in the west would be a good idea. People say her looks are an issue and to some I'm sure they are, but like I said there are games with characters who are actually underage that get sexualized more than her and the gaming press doesn't seem to give a shit about them for more than a brief period after they release.
Are you guys expecting game journalists to talk about female representation in film also expecting film critics to talk about female representation in video games?
I'm aware, just can't figure out why you brought that game up when responding to:
Even if you somehow thought it fit, there are 100s of better games to bring up.
DOAX3 as a straight localization would not appeal to the west anyway as Japan chose the roster through a poll.
Marie Rose
Honoka
Kasumi
Ayane
Kokoro
Nyotengu
Hitomi
Momiji
Helena
Marie Rose, Honoka and Nyotengu were just in the lasted game and have no history.
No Tina Armstrong, Christie, Leifang or Lisa Hamilton.
Like seriously Marie Rose wins the poll and No Tina in the game? game has no appeal to western players taste.
Marie Rose
Honoka
Kasumi
Ayane
Kokoro
Nyotengu
Hitomi
Momiji
Helena
Marie Rose, Honoka and Nyotengu were just in the lasted game and have no history.
No Tina Armstrong, Christie, Leifang or Lisa Hamilton.
Like seriously Marie Rose wins the poll and No Tina in the game? game has no appeal to western players taste.
Yes my agenda is the games industry, because yuo know, we are on a gaming forum and I'm a game developer. doesn't matter if I'm not as focused on Hollywood.
Sure, the character is popular... but the series was doing fine for itself before she existed.. and the audience that voted Marie Rose to the top, is quite likely also the audience that currently has it imported anyway. You have to remember that the voting consisted of actually purchasing a PSN theme of a DOA girl... it's not exactly standard practice for most people.
I didn't vote (buy a theme), but I'd by a localised copy of the game, and wouldn't mind (hell would prefer) Marie Rose not being included.
Also, in regards to games like Senran Kagura etc.. DOAX3 has the rather significant disadvantage of Marie Rose looking like an actual child, rather than a cartoon.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
I wish they would allow us to preorder games on PSN the moment they are announced.
What the fuck are you even talking about? Like all the girls wear long skirts and conservative clothing. The most skin you could probably find is Archetype Earth and she just wears a strapless top and a princess-like long dress.
SolidSnakex
Member
Here are the 9 characters that would've made it in the US
Kasumi
Honoka
Ayane
Marie Rose
Nyotengu
Kokoro
Tina
Helena
Hitomi
Europe
Tina
Kasumi
Honoka
Nyotengu
Ayane
Helena
Marie Rose
Kokoro
Rachael
The lists aren't that different from what Asia chose.
Rising_Hei
Member
What's happening this generation is that the "west" have less appealing games.
You only have to check out what await us @ 2016, most are japanese games, and i think that such a thing hasn't happened since PS2 times
You only have to check out what await us @ 2016, most are japanese games, and i think that such a thing hasn't happened since PS2 times
Because one is a niche anime game that probably nobody will really talk much about if they decided to make a suggestive version of it and the other is a well know fighting game that has appeared in some fighting tournaments thus having more chances of creating an outrage.
Basically I just used that as the first niche japanese fighting game that came into mind that could fit the example of not as popular enough to create a huge controversy
Yea, but you had to buy a PSN theme of the girl in question... I'm sure you can picture the kind of audience overlap that this has. You'd likely get a similar result if the votes were based on buying character mousepads.
DangerMouse
Member
Good to see that as those Japanese companies have come back from being all-mobile to also making some big console games that they've gotten the attention back.
Agreed. On it being BS that it's not coming over. It makes no sense. Like that guy said earlier, less than 5 years ago a DOAX game came out here.
Agreed. On it being BS that it's not coming over. It makes no sense. Like that guy said earlier, less than 5 years ago a DOAX game came out here.
GloriousBagel
Banned
My ex gf had A cup breasts and a petite form, oh and she was asian.
GG I'm a pedo then 😪
radios shipping overview
Member
It's not just her body type. It's her wardrobe, her VA, her hairstyle, her lines. She's very transparently aimed at lolicon fans, and her official age is an excuse. There's plenty of petite characters who don't act like children.
The lolicon fans responded with their pocketbooks (or spacebucks).
This would make sense... If Koei Tecmo had the slightest problem in localizing a metric ton of extremely niche games that most probably get a mere fraction of DOAX's potential sales, with higher localization costs due to much heavier dialogue-oriented gameplay.
Seriously, you can't tell me with a straight face that you think that Nobunaga's Ambition or Yoru No Nai Kuni (to bring two examples among tens of potentials) sell more in the west than a title like DOAX.
Petite women do exist and people are into that, however Marie Rose acts very young and it makes people feel uncomfortable. Its not so much about bustsize but rather how you come across.
If Marie Rose had Giant Ecups and still acted the same people still would be uncomfortable; look at Lucky Chloe from Tekken
SolidSnakex
Member
My point was simply that most of the characters in the Asian version were the exact same characters that the west wanted as well. Particularly Marie Rose and Honoka would've made it in the west as well. The idea that the poster was pushing that the tastes were radically different just isn't true.
Considering how many ladies in the real world act in a youthful/girly manner, those people must feel very uncomfortable walking out in the street.
I'd also advise to never, ever visit Japan. Head explosion might ensue without even going near to Harajuku.
radios shipping overview
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Do you deny that Marie Rose is marketed toward fans of lolicon/under-18 models?
TatteredHat
Member
My man.
It actually seems some European countries can be harsher in regulation there than NA's countries. Didn't Belgium ban a 3DS DoA game or at least restrict the cover that could be used?
You're being a bit obtuse. This is a childish looking, acting and sounding female character in a game where you're encouraged to ogle at girls in swimwear. That people don't object to real women looking or acting younger is not a point in your favour.
I believe she's marketed towards fans that like a more girly look, among which I'm not included, not necessarily "lolicon." But I tend to shy away from defining people in a negative manner just because their taste differs from mine.
She also adds a further degree of variety to a cast that is fairly oriented towards more abundant cleavages and mature behaviors, and as far as I'm concerned, variety is normally a good thing.
The point is that she's not a child (or a minor), and her representation of someone her age is nowhere far from many girls you can encounter on the street, or on a beach.
Yeah women act young but not Marie rose anime young. Look i love Video game tits but lets not pretend Marie Rose is for fans of "petite women".
I dunno, they seem to like Honoka just fine.
Banned in Sweden (pretty much why Marie Rose being specified in the series as Swedish is considered a jab at that).
I know plenty of over 18 (or 20... hell, even 30 lol) ladies that act "marie rose anime young." Visiting Japan enough to know Tokyo almost as well as my home town, the percentage of those raises quite a lot, but it's not like I haven't ever met any in the west as well.
Yes, but what I'm saying is the voting was carried out in a way that skews the view of what "the west wants". If someone asks me which characters I want in the game.. I'd answer someone like Mila... if someone tells me to buy a PSN theme of Mila, I'm like "no", so my vote is erased. The anime/otaku/jpop/etc market has demonstrated countless times to be more willing to put down money for things many others would not be willing to. It's pretty the standard way to extract the most gains from a niche audience, you just find the whales. That doesn't mean that someone else's purchase of the game doesn't hinge on the inclusion of a character that they weren't willing (or weren't even aware of how/why) to vote for.
To TK's credit though, those people are also far less likely to buy all the followup DLC that the game is designed to sell, so even if there were 3 Christie fans for every 1 Marie fan, it wouldn't mean much to them if every Marie fan bought every costume, yet only 1 of 5 Christie fans bought anything beyond the base game. So with that in mind, forcing the players to pay to vote was a pretty clever call. It is not however a definitive statement on what characters Western gamers (who wouldn't even know a vote is happening unless they followed Japanese news) would have liked to see included.