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Kotaku: Destiny 2 delayed beyond September launch, deciding on content to save for D2

After what we heard yesterday, I'm not surprised, but I'm also not too upset about it. If they can take some extra time to make sure that Destiny 2 fixes a lot of the issues that Destiny had at launch, then I'm okay. Make it feel like a proper sequel, rather than a Taken King-like DLC.
 
It's probably for the best. TTK gave them enough good-will that people will be excited for Destiny 2 but they need to really nail it out of the park if they want this series to become as huge as they want it to be. If an extra 6 months or more means we will get a great game full of content that receives good post-launch support, then by all means take that extra time Bungie.
 
This sounds good for the game because I really questioned how much they'd be able to shake up a new mainline entry in that year of time we originally understood they had. However, now I'm even more concerned about the lead up period because my dissatisfaction with how the live team has handled the Year 2 content hasn't wavered.
 
Definitely doing good work, thanks Jason. After 400+ hrs, I've all but lost interest in Destiny...with no roadmap for more content, I can't say there's a whole lot driving me to get back to it any time soon, either. What a shame, I really enjoyed the first year of Destiny, with reasonably well spaced out expansions, and the kickoff of year 2 with TKK was like being shot out of a cannon. Too bad it seems to have fallen flat, and much quicker than anticipated, shifting the business to microtransactions and largely pointless/uninteresting (to me) holiday events.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
I'm sort of surprised they want to make an official sequel instead of just going the full on MMO route and releasing an expansion every year or so with content sprinkled in the gaps between the expansion packs.
 
The whole situation surrounding this franchise has been a shit-show since day one, and I say that as someone who loved Taken King. Hell, it made my GOTY list. Destiny's first year was plagued by a lack of quality content, and the second year is being plagued by just lack of content in general. I don't care whose fault it is, be it Activision or Bungie, but these guys need to get their shit together. Make a plan and stick to it.
 
Maybe we will get that mountian/forest area in destiny 2 after all this time, and that will be it along with some new gun skins.
 
Presumably the games will just have less content than they'd like to release otherwise and they will release less updates in between in order to make the main releases seem more valuable.

Don't know man, that is not how these kind of games work. Have the feeling it might die out when content is coming even slower.
 

AHA-Lambda

Member
Despite the game's sales success I really can't imagine that ATVI has been happy with Bungie's development performance frankly. We saw they had to get Blizzard to basically fix the game with TTK, now this, and we know how ruthless ATVI can be, I'm sure they fully expected annual releases like clockwork.

If this wasn't selling so well, we'd be seeing a lot more trouble and departures I'd bet.
 
I'm not too surprised after they explained their engine difficulties.

I added the part where they talk about how they're unsure they can make anything comparable to the update schedule for year one as well, along with waffling on what goes in Destiny 2 and what is released as an update, which fits with the previous claims of them being unable to author content at a sufficient rate in their current toolset.

I think at this point it would be wise to change engines entirely, the game managed to get around the clusterfuck of the first year lack of content, but I doubt it will survive another one.
 

BigTnaples

Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
After what we heard yesterday, I'm not surprised, but I'm also not too upset about it. If they can take some extra time to make sure that Destiny 2 fixes a lot of the issues that Destiny had at launch, then I'm okay. Make it feel like a proper sequel, rather than a Taken King-like DLC.

What did we hear yesterday?
 
Honest to God I think I might be done. I don't want the same content over and over. I'm tried of grinding for days/weeks/months just to go from 310 to 312. I need something new and it sure as shit isn't a 2 on 2 player mode.
 

Sushi Nao

Member
I'm fine with a delay, but I don't think I'll buy a Destiny 2. Maybe they'll have a comprehensive beta that will change my mind, but ehh.

Destiny meta just gives me agita.
 

PowderedToast

Junior Member
seemed mismanaged from the start. bungie don't appear big enough (or experienced enough) to fulfil what destiny is supposed to be. must be crazy to be working on a constant ever changing project where the goalposts are always moving, not to mention you have this huge monolithic contract hanging above the whole studio

I like destiny but I feel we'll be hearing stories about this games development for a long time to come
 
Interesting. I think TTK expansion was a step in the right direction, but I am curious to see where Bungie goes with Destiny from here. Revamp the style quite a bit for 2 while keeping the mechanics similar, or stick to their guns and just push out more/differing content?
 

Hyun Sai

Member
There is definitely a problem of lead design in this game. We always got the impression that Bungie doesn't have a clue of what they want to do...
 
I haven't played Destiny since early October. Awesome game, fps that provides and creates experiences that no other FPS does. It has it's flaws we Guardians all know this already no need for a rehash here. I feel that I can opine because I've put close to 800 hours into this game.

BUT...I feel for Bungie. It looks like they're running a shit show over there. Lack of communication and direction, PvP designer Derek Caroll didn't know changes were made?

Sections cordoned off for other releases down the line? Development tools that are a pain in the booty hole to work with?

Sounds like Bungie's higher-ups lacked the planning that their ambitious long term vision needed and that over at Bungie there's too many hands in the cookie jar.
 

pantsmith

Member
I swear, it's like Jason is secretly working at Bungie going in a hat and fake moustache so no one recognises him. He keeps getting these hot scoops!

Alternatively I think he has made himself available, and there are a lot of people at Bungie who are passionate about what they are working on and want us to know they're not trying to be misleading or needlessly cruel to their fans.

Its hard not being able to talk about stuff you are working on.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Its a shame talented studios like High Moon are having to prop up the shambling disaster zone that is Bungie rather than still getting to make their own games.
 

Ridley327

Member
Presumably the games will just have less content than they'd like to release otherwise and they will release less updates in between in order to make the main releases seem more valuable.

Is it even feasible to try and reboot the whole thing onto a new engine? I know we have FFXIV as an example of it not only working but paying off, but that was a matter of life and death for Squenix if they didn't.
 
I'd be surprised if they have even figured out how not to transfer the burden of Destiny 1 into Destiny 2 but the chars and gear at this point.

Destiny is so flawed inherently I'd prefer them making a clean cut.
 

th4tguy

Member
Sounds like a lot of headaches are still being caused by their engines toolset being extremely slow to allow devs to go in and make changes/ updates. Sad that such a bottleneck can hold up everything else. That and the general unpreparedness of upper management.
 

kiguel182

Member
I'm in whenever Destiny 2 happens but it's a shame they didn't add more regular content to Destiny 1.

I dropped the game after finishing the normal raid like 3 times because, personally, that was the ceiling for me. After that they either did events or catered to the more hardcore players.

Still, I loved TTK (apart from some super grindy aspects) and I will be back whenever they release their next thing.
 

Catvoca

Banned
Alternatively I think he has made himself available, and there are a lot of people at Bungie who are passionate about what they are working on and want us to know they're not trying to be misleading or needlessly cruel to their fans.

Its hard not being able to talk about stuff you are working on.

Well obviously this is more likely! They used to have such a good relationship with the community back in the Halo days, really communicating with them and showcasing cool content people were making. I imagine some of the people still around the studio now probably miss those days and want to communicate with the fans without being reprimanded, and going through Jason seems to be the best avenue.
 

BigTnaples

Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Sounds like Destiny 2 is gonna be a barebones, buggy shitshow, just like the first one.

Call Destiny what you want, but it was a very technically competent game at launch. Especially in comparison to the rest of the industry. Rock solid 30fps, clean IQ, online that worked, etc.
 

DNAbro

Member
Man I'm so upset how Destiny's ongoing development is going. Game feels so good but Bungie can't keep on going like this.
 
If that is true then it seems Destiny 2 will fall at the same hurdles as the original. Constantly looking to swap content in and out from the sequel to dlc is ringing major alarm bells for a nonsensical or practically non-existent story again. This has got to be an awful way to look at making a game having to keep shifting what may or may not make it in because you're looking to sell it elsewhere instead.
 
What did Taken King prove? One new raid. One new lame new location for patrols. A couple really lame microtransaction-filled additions. Horrendous balancing changes. A slew of bugs that still haven't been addressed (unless of course it affects Bungie getting their money from micro transactions). This release may have looked good on the surface for a week or two, but it's been a joke since.

So... a fact, an opinion, another opinion on a factual add, an incredibly biased opinion, a semi-fact (the outlying bugs have been fixed).

Yet another Destiny shitpost in a Destiny thread, yup yup.

Delayed D2? Sure, okay, I'll deal. I'm taking a sort-of break from it to play other stuff more frequently, but if it means the game ships with better/more content and so long as we get something before then, I'll be good.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Don't know man, that is not how these kind of games work. Have the feeling it might die out when content is coming even slower.

Well, I mean, they kind of sunk themselves.

Just read the situation as their own employees describe it: http://kotaku.com/the-messy-true-story-behind-the-making-of-destiny-1737556731

It’s not uncommon for a game’s scope to reduce during development, but Bungie had a unique problem. People who worked on this project say that one of Bungie’s fundamental issues over the past few years has been the game’s engine, which the studio built from scratch alongside Destiny. Four sources pointed to Destiny’s technology—the tools they use to design levels, render graphics, and create content—as an inhibiting factor in the game’s development.

“Let’s say a designer wants to go in and move a resource node two inches,” said one person familiar with the engine. “They go into the editor. First they have to load their map overnight. It takes eight hours to input their map overnight. They get [into the office] in the morning. If their importer didn’t fail, they open the map. It takes about 20 minutes to open. They go in and they move that node two feet. And then they’d do a 15-20 minute compile. Just to do a half-second change.”

People who have worked with Destiny’s tech say the company is capable of powering incredible things behind the scenes, like player matchmaking. It’s also clear that Destiny is one of the best-looking video games ever made. But as a tool-set for designers, sources say, Destiny’s engine is subpar, and creating new maps and missions at Bungie can be grueling for developers.
“A lot of the problems that came up in Destiny 1, and that happened in development of The Taken King, are results of having an unwavering schedule and unwieldy tools,” said a source. “Bungie is ravenously appreciative of the people that play their games, and they listen, they listen so clearly. But because the tools are shit, and because no one can reach consensus on how to fix the game in the time that’s allotted, you get a lot of sort of paralysis.”

What are their options in a scenario like this?

I even left out the part where they explain they cut the DLC releases in between mainline games and "comet releases" because they were already totally overwhelmed.

Is it even feasible to try and reboot the whole thing onto a new engine? I know we have FFXIV as an example of it not only working but paying off, but that was a matter of life and death for Squenix if they didn't.
I think at this point it would be wise to change engines entirely, the game managed to get around the clusterfuck of the first year lack of content, but I doubt it will survive another one.
The issue is the schedule. That would likely take a very long time.

They could also try to overhaul their own tools to make them efficient, but again there's a lot of schedule pressure.
 

Trogdor1123

Member
It seems odd to me that some are bummed over this. I'm pumped.

Destiny was so bad at the start. Almost made no sense. The fact that they are taking more time to do it right might win me back. Kudos to them.
 

farisr

Member
From the sounds of things, it looks like this franchise can just go on my ignore list now. After hearing the good reception of The Taken King, I was looking forward to jumping back in with the next big expansion or Destiny 2. Not anymore.
 
Why alienate and splinter a player base with a $60 game when you can wrangle them all over with a $40 xpac? With static x86 hardware, it's not like massive engine improvements are worth the dev time on a property like this. This isn't "unlocking the power of the cell", it's using the ultra familiar and ununique hardware we've used for development for the better part of 2 decades.

Destiny also has the privileged of being around so long in the consoles lifetime that its on a lot of shelves and easier to sell another $40 package on launch than $60.

Also the $60 "new version" that has all the old content ends up offering value to new gamers.

Call of Duty at least has different properties/studios that annualize.
 
It seems odd to me that some are bummed over this. I'm pumped.

Destiny was so bad at the start. Almost made no sense. The fact that they are taking more time to do it right might win me back. Kudos to them.

Bungie seems like a mess right now. Very disorganized. I don't see how this is a positive.
 
I'm sort of surprised they want to make an official sequel instead of just going the full on MMO route and releasing an expansion every year or so with content sprinkled in the gaps between the expansion packs.

If Destiny 1.0 was better that would have worked. But it wasn't. And if they want to get away from the stink of that game they really need to redo the entire experience and move past the current content entirely.


Also Destiny Legendary Edition has been regularly on sale digitally for 30 bucks over the holidays. I have never seen activision do such steep discounts for a new game. For me that was a big sign something was up.
 

Koh

Member
Presumably the games will just have less content than they'd like to release otherwise and they will release less updates in between in order to make the main releases seem more valuable.

:( that would be the kiss off death for me.

Lacking content was the primary reason for my Destiny disappointment. I won't be jumping in blind for their next paid content, that's for sure.
 
I expect TTK levels of content when D2 drops. I can only hope they deliver. I say this as a person who didn't start playing the game till TKK.
 

Euron

Member
Fantastic work again Jason!

I just can't see Bungie releasing a full game with less than 3 years of dev time. I thought it would be possible if 2 was essentially a bigger Taken King but even that looks a bit too difficult to release so soon. Bungie should get all the time they need with 2 to fully make up for the shortcomings of the original's launch.
 

evilr

Banned
TTK flopped in my opinion, and the relatively quick deep discounts rather back that up.

Destiny 1.0 was daylight robbery. What we was promised to what we got was essentially a lie. The game was crap, and was critically panned for its lack of content and gameplay variation.

Which comes to my question: Why are people hyped about Destiny 2.0? It is quite clear to me it won't deliver, just like the original didn't. It is also quite annoying to hear it crop up at every bloody gameshow.
 
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