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[KirbYuuYuu]

I think no weapon durability was done before

 

[Ekai]

I think no weapon durability was done before

Some very specific weapons in past games, even Awakening, have had no durability. However the series as a whole has always had durability to this point outside of FE Gaiden.

 

[partyphone]

I understand that as a business mindset, but I think these discussions should be had on a personal level. As Aaron Lagann said, I don't see how optional content that one never has to even click on can be offensive on an individual level without said person being a literal child that does see this as a sort of Schadenfreude situation, which there definitely are as made apparent by all the "here for the meltdowns" people.

Can optional content bring down an overall product even on an individual level? Sure, but it gets to a point where you have to say "come on" in terms of what does and doesn't constitute "objectionable content". They're not partnering with Mangagamer and bundling FE Fates with a physical copy of Euphoria. They're giving us something goofy that requires a ton of time investment for anything even remotely pandery. Even if someone that has no interest in the mode clicks on it by accident, they're not going to see Shara's S rank petting conversation. They're going to see a guy or girl looking at you in the face with a smile. It's like a step or two above Awakening's matchmaking on the "creep" level.

optional or not I think the content is bad so I'm going to criticise it. I'm also not offended by it nor am I coming at this from some misplaced hatred of anime. I actually like anime and watch a ton of it. I also used to love fire emblem games. but awakening felt like a misstep and I had completely written these new games off as clearly not being for me. but that doesn't mean I'm going to shut up about it. they're games I liked in the past and want to like in the future so I'm going to criticise.

the tragedy is this tiny step in the right direction may not be enough and could damage the brand in the eyes of people who like weird content.

 

[Tyeforce]

Ahh, I've been busy so I haven't been able to keep up with this thread!

Anyway, a friend of mine came over last night with their Japanese copy of Fire Emblem If/Fates (coincidentally, it's the very same person who posted the videos that people are sharing in this thread) so that I could try it out for myself. I've watched them play it before, but I hadn't actually played it myself yet. It didn't really change my opinion of the feature much (but I already had a pretty good understanding of it prior, anyway), but my friend did mention some things that I hadn't even considered.

My friend has played through both Birthright and Conquest (and part of Revelation), and they've said that interestingly, they've gotten to know many characters entirely through this touching feature, and without it they'd know most of the characters far less. Why? Because while they may not pair up with or use all of their characters in battle, they can invite any character to their home and play this mode with them.

Every character has their own mannerisms and reactions based on their personality and relation to your avatar character—for example, your husband/wife is going to obviously be more intimate with you than other characters. You can use the feature with your children, and it becomes more of a motherly/fatherly type of thing. Other characters that you're not married to can still show affection, but it's not the same type of affection that's shown with your husband/wife. Characters can even show resistance and refuse to be touched. (And for those unaware, the touching is also limited to just the head and shoulders; it's not like you're touching all over their body.) It's a great way to form deeper connections with these characters and get to know them better, or at all if you're not even using them in battle.

I personally don't find anything "creepy" (a term that's misused and thrown around far too much) about it at all, though I understand that it's common for others to think that way about stuff like this, but I'm sure most of the people complaining about it haven't played it themselves or even watched more than a few seconds of it on YouTube, so they probably don't have an accurate understanding of what it is. Even so, it's an entirely optional feature that both affects gameplay (giving you stat bonuses with characters outside of battle) and enjoyment (getting to know your characters better and, for some people, giving more options for connecting with same-sex characters), and to want it gone just because you don't like it is rather ignorant and mean-spirited, in my opinion.

Whether or not its removal will make the game "better" is entirely subjective. Ultimately, it's removing optional content that plenty of people were really looking forward to, and that's not a good thing in my book. It's not like it's just altering something slightly like many other localization/censorship changes, this is entirely scrapping a feature that can add a lot to the game for many people.

I mean, I do think there's value in Nintendo knowing people are upset, but I imagine they know already. I don't know if there's any point in starting a campaign over it, but maybe something small to raise awareness.

Hey Tyeforce, maybe you should start something minor over this.

Thanks for your support, cosmicblizzard, and I would like to at least put some kind of message out there for it. Nothing as big as Miiquality, because I don't feel that it's quite as big of an issue, but I think it's still a perspective that people should be made aware of. It'd be nice if people could come together and voice their desire for this feature in a positive manner.

Please speak for yourself, not all gay individuals agree with you.

Honestly I find it difficult to see what's nice about petting straight guys who would never marry me. It's just gross.

It wouldn't keep me from buying the game if they kept it but it would diminish it's value. In the end it was NoA's choice to make. I think they made the right decision.

I never said I was speaking for all gay individuals. But I know there are plenty of LGBT individuals like myself who feel the same way about this. I don't expect everyone too, of course, and it's totally understandable for people to not care about this feature. But why exclude it when it's harmless and would add a lot for many people?

And, as I stated above, different characters will react differently depending on their relation to your character. If you've seen the videos of the feature being used with the player's husband/wife, understand that it's not going to be like that for other characters, too. Understandably, it's much more intimate with your character's husband/wife. But it's still a way to connect with other characters, including same-sex, in a deeper way.

 

[Triforce141]

I think no weapon durability was done before

It was done in Fire Emblem Gaiden also.

 

[KirbYuuYuu]

Some very specific weapons in past games, even Awakening, have had no durability. However the series as a whole has always had durability to this point outside of FE Gaiden.

It was done in Fire Emblem Gaiden also.

Ah right.

That was the one.

 

[Palculator]

Ahh, I've been busy so I haven't been able to keep up with this thread!

Anyway, a friend of mine came over last night with their Japanese copy of Fire Emblem If/Fates (coincidentally, it's the very same person who posted the videos that people are sharing in this thread) so that I could try it out for myself. I've watched them play it before, but I hadn't actually played it myself yet. It didn't really change my opinion of the feature much (but I already had a pretty good understanding of it prior, anyway), but my friend did mention some things that I hadn't even considered.

My friend has played through both Birthright and Conquest (and part of Revelation), and they've said that interestingly, they've gotten to know many characters entirely through this touching feature, and without it they'd know most of the characters far less. Why? Because while they may not pair up with or use all of their characters in battle, they can invite any character to their home and play this mode with them.

Every character has their own mannerisms and reactions based on their personality and relation to your avatar character—for example, your husband/wife is going to obviously be more intimate with you than other characters. You can use the feature with your children, and it becomes more of a motherly/fatherly type of thing. Other characters that you're not married to can still show affection, but it's not the same type of affection that's shown with your husband/wife. Characters can even show resistance and refuse to be touched. (And for those unaware, the touching is also limited to just the head and shoulders; it's not like you're touching all over their body.) It's a great way to form deeper connections with these characters and get to know them better, or at all if you're not even using them in battle.

I personally don't find anything "creepy" (a term that's misused and thrown around far too much) about it at all, though I understand that it's common for others to think that way about stuff like this, but I'm sure most of the people complaining about it haven't played it themselves or even watched more than a few seconds of it on YouTube, so they probably don't have an accurate understanding of what it is. Even so, it's an entirely optional feature that both affects gameplay (giving you stat bonuses with characters outside of battle) and enjoyment (getting to know your characters better and, for some people, giving more options for connecting with same-sex characters), and to want it gone just because you don't like it is rather ignorant and mean-spirited, in my opinion.

Whether or not its removal will make the game "better" is entirely subjective. Ultimately, it's removing optional content that plenty of people were really looking forward to, and that's not a good thing in my book. It's not like it's just altering something slightly like many other localization/censorship changes, this is entirely scrapping a feature that can add a lot to the game for many people.

Excellent post.

 

[DecoReturns]

Does anybody ever even use the Hammerne staff?

 

[Kinsei]

Does anybody ever even use the Hammerne staff?

Yes. Why wouldn't you?

 

[Onimusha78]

Ahh, I've been busy so I haven't been able to keep up with this thread!

Anyway, a friend of mine came over last night with their Japanese copy of Fire Emblem If/Fates (coincidentally, it's the very same person who posted the videos that people are sharing in this thread) so that I could try it out for myself. I've watched them play it before, but I hadn't actually played it myself yet. It didn't really change my opinion of the feature much (but I already had a pretty good understanding of it prior, anyway), but my friend did mention some things that I hadn't even considered.

My friend has played through both Birthright and Conquest (and part of Revelation), and they've said that interestingly, they've gotten to know many characters entirely through this touching feature, and without it they'd know most of the characters far less. Why? Because while they may not pair up with or use all of their characters in battle, they can invite any character to their home and play this mode with them.

Every character has their own mannerisms and reactions based on their personality and relation to your avatar character—for example, your husband/wife is going to obviously be more intimate with you than other characters. You can use the feature with your children, and it becomes more of a motherly/fatherly type of thing. Other characters that you're not married to can still show affection, but it's not the same type of affection that's shown with your husband/wife. Characters can even show resistance and refuse to be touched. (And for those unaware, the touching is also limited to just the head and shoulders; it's not like you're touching all over their body.) It's a great way to form deeper connections with these characters and get to know them better, or at all if you're not even using them in battle.

I personally don't find anything "creepy" (a term that's misused and thrown around far too much) about it at all, though I understand that it's common for others to think that way about stuff like this, but I'm sure most of the people complaining about it haven't played it themselves or even watched more than a few seconds of it on YouTube, so they probably don't have an accurate understanding of what it is. Even so, it's an entirely optional feature that both affects gameplay (giving you stat bonuses with characters outside of battle) and enjoyment (getting to know your characters better and, for some people, giving more options for connecting with same-sex characters), and to want it gone just because you don't like it is rather ignorant and mean-spirited, in my opinion.

Whether or not its removal will make the game "better" is entirely subjective. Ultimately, it's removing optional content that plenty of people were really looking forward to, and that's not a good thing in my book. It's not like it's just altering something slightly like many other localization/censorship changes, this is entirely scrapping a feature that can add a lot to the game for many people.

Might have been able to just shrug this off before reading this, but yh missing out dialogue and character interaction absolutely sucks

 

[Ekai]

Does anybody ever even use the Hammerne staff?

I very rarely used it in FE7. Mostly to repair one of the "this is the only version of this weapon that exists" weapons. I never really used it on anything else outside of maybe a Killing Edge or some other such weapon. I mean, it's not like that staff was even easy to come by in the first place. And it only had 3 uses so it doesn't really counter the argument for people who like durability either.

 

[Firemind]

It was a resource management that alot of people bungled. It's also not the first time this has happened in the series before (FE4's repairable weapons).

Being able to repair doesn't suddenly mean it's not resource management anymore, since you can't just repair any time. The limited inventory space of each character means you have to juggle between weapons and items, considering the properties of said weapons like weapon triangle advantages, weight and power. Now the weapon triangle has been dumbed down as well which is a bit of a slap to the face among many other slaps in the face.

 

[DecoReturns]

Yes. Why wouldn't you?

Ive never use it. Weapon durability is never seems to be a problem.

It's pointless in RD, most people miss it in PoF. It has one or (3)?use in 7, but all the good weapons are obtain last chapter.

 

[SenorArdilla]

Yes. Why wouldn't you?

I usually just store them away until I need them which isn't often.

 

[Ekai]

Being able to repair doesn't suddenly mean it's not resource management anymore, since you can't just repair any time. The limited inventory space of each character means you have to juggle between weapons and items, considering the properties of said weapons like weapon triangle advantages, weight and power. Now the weapon triangle has been dumbed down as well which is a bit of a slap to the face among many other slaps in the face.

Again this sums up my feelings on it.

 

[RMI]

That's hilarious because this small minigame being censored out should not suddenly make him feel comfortable playing the game next to someone...

This was very heavyhanded of NOA and that's the reality of the situation. The game got a 15 rating in Japan and was castrated for a 13 one in NA from a rating system that is harsher on the content this series usually pushes and doesn't even have a 15 rating.

FE is not for kids.

I wonder if Nintendo is basically giving up any ground they may have gained chasing an older demographic this past generation because it hasn't exactly delivered them additional sales. I wouldn't expect them to pursue projects like Bayonetta 2 or (ugh) Devil's Third, at least not in the West where there is an idea that game content is scrutinized much more heavily.

This makes me sad, as an adult who is perfectly happy to play family friendly and more mature oriented titles, I would like to see a variety of options on Nintendo's platforms. From a business perspective, however, I can understand Nintendo wanting the broadest possible appeal for their games.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

I don't think it's fair to say that Awakening's popularity vs the older games is entirely down to such content, that's a bit of a simplification.

Awakening also had:
An optional no-permadeath mode to avoid losing characters
A much bigger promotional campaign
Ability to grind on free battles and DLC maps to avoid getting stuck
A 'my unit' as a viewpoint character

All of this was designed to help make it accessible to new players, and in some cases to address often-given reasons why some players had avoided it in the past. Putting increased sales down to stuff like silly lingerie-clad teenage dragon girls as a figurehead, summing up the problems some fans of the older fans have with it as something hard to argue against is understandable, but it completely ignores loads of other stuff that was deliberately added to increase Fire Emblem's general appeal and chance of survival.

Personally I thought stuff like the optional no-permadeath and optional free battles were a cool idea, allowing people new to strategy games to try out the series without worrying about playing it in effectively Xcom Iron Man mode for their first time out!

I can say without question that it was the new gameplay stuff in Awakenings, specifically it being a much easier game, with lots of opportunities to grind through tough spots, along with the gameplay (but not story) appeal of matching up units to produce superunit children. Those are what got me to finally enjoy a Fire Emblem game. Previously, I'd always lose interest once I fucked up and lost a unit.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

We went over how it feels like a use of LGBT people rather than a support for them and I didn't want to go down that road again.
That said, I can see the argument Tyeforce makes and how it could be an unintentional effect as well.

Trust me, using LGBT people as a bullet point on a "why this is wrong" checklist is not my intention at all. I, along with Tyeforce who is far more qualified to speak on the subject than I am, are just giving people something else to think about on top of the other reasons why people are against the removal. I will not claim to speak for LGBT people and if I came off that way or aggressive in general about it last night, I apologize.

optional or not I think the content is bad so I'm going to criticise it.

I agree with you. You should criticize content you don't like and hope they change it for future entries.

But you can't criticize something that isn't there for an already-finished product. Surely you can see the difference.

 

[Warxard]

I feel like people who are cheering for this move isn't a fan of anime in general and just wants to see it gone.

don't take away my anime

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Even so, it's an entirely optional feature that both affects gameplay (giving you stat bonuses with characters outside of battle) and enjoyment (getting to know your characters better and, for some people, giving more options for connecting with same-sex characters), and to want it gone just because you don't like it is rather ignorant and mean-spirited, in my opinion.

Ok, this is something I want to respond to. Again, I want to reiterate that I personally (I can't speak for anyone else in the thread) am perfectly fine with different viewpoints. I have my opinions. Other people have their's. Honestly, that's groovy. This is a discussion forum. There's been a lively discussion about this topic. That's great!

The issue I take is that this doesn't allow for any middle ground wherein there's an attempt at an understanding as to why people don't want this. Again, you can hear the reasons and ultimately disagree with them. But I don't think it's fair to assume everyone for this change is ultimately being ignorant and mean-spirited.

Have you considered that there are people out there who aren't necessarily against the stat-boosting and increased character interaction whose objection lies just with the face-petting mechanic? Now again, I want to stress, you can advocate for the face-petting. You can write about what you think it adds to the game. My aim here is not to deride people who are ok with it or even in favor of it. If enough people speak up about it -- while I have my suspicion that what's done is done for this title -- maybe they'll reconsider such a change the next go around. And like I said, if whatever they do in the next game rubs me the wrong way (no pun intended), while I may discuss it on this forum, I'm not going to throw a big temper tantrum and start sending Reggie and my local congressional representative angry letters about having the feature removed. I'll just have to make a decision about how much it bothers me.

Like I've said, I have no personal grudges with anyone. I was not personally consulted about this decision. I'm not spiking the football right now and declaring "Yeah! Suck on this egg you weirdos!" But speaking for myself, this mechanic always struck me as weird and off-putting. And did the barracks stuff in Awakenings. I don't mind optional ways to strengthen bonds between characters. But this? I wasn't a fan of it. And I don't think it's fair to characterize me as an ignorant, selfish person for stating that.

 

[billy beane]

I'm not totally cool with publishers cutting content in localizations, but this shouldn't have been in the game. It's weird, and not in a good way.

 

[Ekai]

Trust me, using LGBT people as a bullet point on a "why this is wrong" checklist is not my intention at all. I, along with Tyeforce who is far more qualified to speak on the subject than I am, are just giving people something else to think about on top of the other reasons why people are against the removal. I will not claim to speak for LGBT people and if I came off that way or aggressive in general about it last night, I apologize..

And that's okay. I apologize too if I came across as a bit unruly. I didn't respond to your comment on it potentially being an unintentional side effect, just on the way I felt regarding how people generally reacted to the Soleli change and this change. And I agree, this could be seen an unintentional effect on the LGBT community.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Thanks for your support, cosmicblizzard, and I would like to at least put some kind of message out there for it. Nothing as big as Miiquality, because I don't feel that it's quite as big of an issue, but I think it's still a perspective that people should be made aware of. It'd be nice if people could come together and voice their desire for this feature in a positive manner.

I hadn't thought about it yesterday, but there's always the possibility of Nintendo putting it back in as free DLC if enough people voice their support.

Anyway, great writeup that makes the removal more disappointing. I had said I would have been fine with the touching aspect removed and everything else kept in before, but now I'm not even so sure about that.

Just a really disappointing situation all around.

 

[SenorArdilla]

I wonder if Nintendo is basically giving up any ground they may have gained chasing an older demographic this past generation because it hasn't exactly delivered them additional sales. I wouldn't expect them to pursue projects like Bayonetta 2 or (ugh) Devil's Third, at least not in the West where there is an idea that game content is scrutinized much more heavily.

Didn't NoA steal this away from XSeed because fans raised a big stink about it?

On the subject of weapon durability, as long as you plan well you rarely have to worry about it. It's something that punishes bad and new players to for not preparing efficiently.

 

[BatDan]

Didn't NoA steal this away from XSeed because fans raised a big stink about it?

On the subject of weapon durability, as long as you plan well you rarely have to worry about it. It's something that punishes bad and new players to for not preparing efficiently.

That was never confirmed.

 

[Firemind]

Ive never use it. Weapon durability is never seems to be a problem.

It's pointless in RD, most people miss it in PoF. It has one or (3)?use in 7, but all the good weapons are obtain last chapter.

Using good weapons frequently in FE7 means you will have a bad funds rank. Using bad weapons all the time however could mean you might finish chapters slower which affects your tactics rank. Again, it's this long-term decision-making that makes the game actually strategic. Nowadays you just steamroll everything while grinding for more stats so you can steamroll even more efficiently. Or you play Lunatic which is just garbage.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Does anybody ever even use the Hammerne staff?

Bonus warps yo

 

[Nightbird]

I can say without question that it was the new gameplay stuff in Awakenings, specifically it being a much easier game, with lots of opportunities to grind through tough spots, along with the gameplay (but not story) appeal of matching up units to produce superunit children. Those are what got me to finally enjoy a Fire Emblem game. Previously, I'd always lose interest once I fucked up and lost a unit.

Well said.


In my case it was one of the commercials for awakening that got me interested in the franchise.

This one, to be exact: https://youtube.com/watch?v=vxiEcWYmxr8

It just made the game look so interesting! It was not my first encounter with this franchise though. I played one of the GBA games for a bit when I was younger, but the difficulty, as well as the fact that my characters were permanently gone really turned me off.
When I learned that Awakening was made more accessible I had no excuses anymore for not getting it.

That's why it really gets on my nerves when people say awakening was only successful because of pandering. It's not. It's successful because it made a series playable for people who are not that good in SRPG's.


Fun Fact: the "this is life. This is death. This is: Fire Emblem Awakening" line has been stuck in my head until today. I don't know why, but it just feels incredibly epic.

 

[JetSetRadio]

This thread made me curious so I looked it up, I'm even more confused now. That's it!?

 

[DecoReturns]

Using good weapons frequently in FE7 means you will have a bad funds rank. Using bad weapons all the time however could mean you might finish chapters slower which affects your tactics rank. Again, it's this long-term decision-making that makes the game actually strategic. Nowadays you just steamroll everything while grinding for more stats so you can steamroll even more efficiently. Or you play Lunatic which is just garbage.

I don't care about ranks. But using good weapons doesn't really affect funds. It easy to get a perfect ranking, only Hector Hard Mode is where you have a problem.

 

[Ekai]

Using good weapons frequently in FE7 means you will have a bad funds rank. Using bad weapons all the time however could mean you might finish chapters slower which affects your tactics rank. Again, it's this long-term decision-making that makes the game actually strategic. Nowadays you just steamroll everything while grinding for more stats so you can steamroll even more efficiently. Or you play Lunatic which is just garbage.

Again, pretty much this.

And the day they remove perma-death from FE is the day the final nail is in the coffin as far as it's merit and history of being a well-balanced strategy series goes. It was the first to do perma-death and it's such a wonderful and dire mechanic. I very much like how it engrosses you in the characters, their relationships and the plot at hand. I don't mind if there's a mode for more "accessibility" but the day they remove it entirely is the day FE is no longer strategy to me.

 

[Ushojax]

If they replaced the face-petting with a mechanic that was less LovePlus and more appropriate for Fire Emblem, it would be fine. These characters are all soldiers, why couldn't this unique dialogue be used in a dojo setting while they are training and you play a Punch-Out style mini game? That would be fine.

It's this cringey ~uguu nonsense that I can't stand. It doesn't belong in Fire Emblem. Face petting is the most stupid mechanic they could possibly have come up with, a horrible mixture of infantilisation and embarassing titillation. Petting a Pokemon makes sense. Petting a soldier doesn't.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Ok, this is something I want to respond to. Again, I want to reiterate that I personally (I can't speak for anyone else in the thread) am perfectly fine with different viewpoints. I have my opinions. Other people have their's. Honestly, that's groovy. This is a discussion forum. There's been a lively discussion about this topic. That's great!

The issue I take is that this doesn't allow for any middle ground wherein there's an attempt at an understanding as to why people don't want this. Again, you can hear the reasons and ultimately disagree with them. But I don't think it's fair to assume everyone for this change is ultimately being ignorant and mean-spirited.

Have you considered that there are people out there who aren't necessarily against the stat-boosting and increased character interaction whose objection lies just with the face-petting mechanic? Now again, I want to stress, you can advocate for the face-petting. You can write about what you think it adds to the game. My aim here is not to deride people who are ok with it or even in favor of it. If enough people speak up about it -- while I have my suspicion that what's done is done for this title -- maybe they'll reconsider such a change the next go around. And like I said, if whatever they do in the next game rubs me the wrong way (no pun intended), while I may discuss it on this forum, I'm not going to throw a big temper tantrum and start sending Reggie and my local congressional representative angry letters about having the feature removed. I'll just have to make a decision about how much it bothers me.

Like I've said, I have no personal grudges with anyone. I was not personally consulted about this decision. I'm not spiking the football right now and declaring "Yeah! Suck on this egg you weirdos!" But speaking for myself, this mechanic always struck me as weird and off-putting. And did the barracks stuff in Awakenings. I don't mind optional ways to strengthen bonds between characters. But this? I wasn't a fan of it. And I don't think it's fair to characterize me as an ignorant, selfish person for stating that.

I don't think Tyeforce is accusing anyone of being intentionally mean-spirited, at least not anyone since the first page or so.

But surely you can see how immediately jumping to your own defense because you don't see the same thing he does, whether it be through unintentional representation or arguments outside the scope of this current discussion, can come off, right? Not to vilify people for not considering those possibilities of course and I'm not even saying it's right to immediately jump to malice when anything even remotely offensive can be construed from a talking point. That doesn't mean I don't think it's something to consider when trying to be empathetic to other viewpoints, especially when we have wide generalizations about the people upset over this like Charlequin's from before.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

It was done in Fire Emblem Gaiden also.

Also towards the end of Radiant dawn, you get a whole ton of unbreakable weapons.

 

[RMI]

Didn't NoA steal this away from XSeed because fans raised a big stink about it?

Interesting. I didn't realize that XSeed stepped up to be the publisher for that game and then Nintendo scooped it out from under them. Sounds like they did them a favor, in the end.

If they replaced the face-petting with a mechanic that was less LovePlus and more appropriate for Fire Emblem, it would be fine. These characters are all soldiers, why couldn't this unique dialogue be used in a dojo setting while they are training and you play a Punch-Out style mini game? That would be fine.

It's this cringey ~uguu nonsense that I can't stand. It doesn't belong in Fire Emblem. Face petting is the most stupid mechanic they could possibly have come up with, a horrible mixture of infantilisation and embarassing titillation. Petting a Pokemon makes sense. Petting a soldier doesn't.

I don't think many would argue with you about this. I would rather the face petting be something else, also, but I'd also rather have the face petting than have it removed entirely.

 

[Wiseblade]

Yes. Why wouldn't you?

"But what if I get a weapon later on that's EVEN BETTER than the one I'm using Hammerne on now?"

It's the potion/Master Ball dilemma all over again.

 

[Onimusha78]

If they replaced the face-petting with a mechanic that was less LovePlus and more appropriate for Fire Emblem, it would be fine. These characters are all soldiers, why couldn't this unique dialogue be used in a dojo setting while they are training and you play a Punch-Out style mini game? That would be fine.

It's this cringey ~uguu nonsense that I can't stand. It doesn't belong in Fire Emblem. Face petting is the most stupid mechanic they could possibly come up with, a horrible mixture of infantilisation and embarassing titillation.

The face petting doesn't bother me but yh this would have been an all round better idea

 

[Seductivpancakes]

If they replaced the face-petting with a mechanic that was less LovePlus and more appropriate for Fire Emblem, it would be fine. These characters are all soldiers, why couldn't this unique dialogue be used in a dojo setting while they are training and you play a Punch-Out style mini game? That would be fine.

It's this cringey ~uguu nonsense that I can't stand. It doesn't belong in Fire Emblem. Face petting is the most stupid mechanic they could possibly have come up with, a horrible mixture of infantilisation and embarassing titillation. Petting a Pokemon makes sense. Petting a soldier doesn't.

cause its anime bruh

 

[Kinsei]

"But what if I get a weapon later on that's EVEN BETTER than the one I'm using Hammerne on now?"

It's the potion/Master Ball dilemma all over again.

People don't use their masterb balls?

 

[DecoReturns]

People don't use their masterb balls?

Nope. Not even on fleeing Pokemon.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

Interesting. I didn't realize that XSeed stepped up to be the publisher for that game and then Nintendo scooped it out from under them. Sounds like they did them a favor, in the end.



I don't think many would argue with you about this. I would rather the face petting be something else, also, but I'd also rather have the face petting than have it removed entirely.

What if NOA taking this out of the NA version makes the developers rethink the inclusion of such a mechanic in the Japanese version of the next game?

 

[SenorArdilla]

Though I will admit that making stronger weapons not straight up upgrades is a plus. That and it completely eliminates the need for Armsthrift.

People don't use their masterb balls?

Why would you use something you only get one of? If there were two then maybe. But I always keep one of each item.

 

[LordGorchnik]

Interesting. I didn't realize that XSeed stepped up to be the publisher for that game and then Nintendo scooped it out from under them. Sounds like they did them a favor, in the end.



I don't think many would argue with you about this. I would rather the face petting be something else, also, but I'd also rather have the face petting than have it removed entirely.

I don't believe this was ever confirmed. We can only speculate because XSEED and Nintendo would never comment on whether it is true or not.

 

[sorakirosaki]

Does anybody ever even use the Hammerne staff?

i never did because it was one of a kind and i didnt want to use it (at least in past games) i was one of those I cant use my stronger weapons because rarity and a lot of my friends were the same
i actually quite like the no durabilty because it gives us a lot of different options with load outs (although at first i was kinda eh about it)

 

[Firemind]

I don't care about ranks. But using good weapons doesn't really affect funds. It easy to get a perfect ranking, only Hector Hard Mode is where you have a problem.

The problem usually was the experience rank, meaning you had to diversify your cast, meaning you had to use statistically worse characters, meaning you had to use higher level weapons or stat boosting items to finish chapters within the limit, meaning you had to sell your gems to buy them, meaning it would hit your funds rank.

 

[John Kowalski]

People don't use their masterb balls?

Hell no. There's only one in the whole world, it should be in a museum not in my slippery hands.

 

[MHWilliams]

Awakenings started down a path and Fates is continuing it. If they continue down this path, I may have to ultimately conclude "I'm not the target audience for this product." And that's fine. I just won't buy it.

I'd argue that it's unlikely that Nintendo's going to double down on the idea, given how controversial the feature was internally in the first place.

When they talked about it with Nintendo, Nintendo said they were over doing it, so they toned it down. Apparently, the version that Nintendo rejected was more extreme – you could touch a character anywhere, from their head to their stomach, and the touch icon was a hand. They thought the hand thing was kind of unpleasant, so they changed it to a touch pen (along with limiting the area players could touch).

According to Maeda, there were two debugging teams that had totally different opinions on the matter. Team A found the whole thing kind of unpleasant, and were the ones that limited the touching area and switched the stylus from a hand. Team B was the opposite, and wanted to be able to touch the characters in more places and have the icon be a hand again. (In the end, I guess team A won out).

This is also why "creative vision" can be a hard term to use in game development, because there are so many stakeholders and so many offering up their opinions.

 

[Palculator]

People don't use their masterb balls?

Nope.

 

[Tyeforce]

Ok, this is something I want to respond to. Again, I want to reiterate that I personally (I can't speak for anyone else in the thread) am perfectly fine with different viewpoints. I have my opinions. Other people have their's. Honestly, that's groovy. This is a discussion forum. There's been a lively discussion about this topic. That's great!

The issue I take is that this doesn't allow for any middle ground wherein there's an attempt at an understanding as to why people don't want this. Again, you can hear the reasons and ultimately disagree with them. But I don't think it's fair to assume everyone for this change is ultimately being ignorant and mean-spirited.

Have you considered that there are people out there who aren't necessarily against the stat-boosting and increased character interaction whose objection lies just with the face-petting mechanic? Now again, I want to stress, you can advocate for the face-petting. You can write about what you think it adds to the game. My aim here is not to deride people who are ok with it or even in favor of it. If enough people speak up about it -- while I have my suspicion that what's done is done for this title -- maybe they'll reconsider such a change the next go around. And like I said, if whatever they do in the next game rubs me the wrong way (no pun intended), while I may discuss it on this forum, I'm not going to throw a big temper tantrum and start sending Reggie and my local congressional representative angry letters about having the feature removed. I'll just have to make a decision about how much it bothers me.

Like I've said, I have no personal grudges with anyone. I was not personally consulted about this decision. I'm not spiking the football right now and declaring "Yeah! Suck on this egg you weirdos!" But speaking for myself, this mechanic always struck me as weird and off-putting. And did the barracks stuff in Awakenings. I don't mind optional ways to strengthen bonds between characters. But this? I wasn't a fan of it. And I don't think it's fair to characterize me as an ignorant, selfish person for stating that.

I totally understand that, and yes, I realize that people are taking issue with the whole face-petting aspect. There's certainly room for a middle ground, and I really do understand why people are against it. Of course, I also feel that many people don't really have a complete and accurate understanding of what exactly this feature is and all that it entails (and doesn't entail), so you're seeing a lot of knee-jerk reactions from people who just think it's "creepy" after seeing a YouTube video or hearing it described (and honestly, it is a feature that does sound quite weird when you're trying to describe it, but in practice it's not nearly as weird as it sounds; at least that's my opinion after having experienced it myself and all).

Ultimately, people are going to have different ideas and opinions on what is necessary to the game and what isn't, or what's "creepy" and what's not, etc. And I really do understand why people are against this, and no, I don't think everyone is intentionally being ignorant or mean-spirited. But I do think that many people aren't considering the other perspectives on this issue, and why this feature could mean a lot more for some people than others. I also realize that some people may still be against it even after considering another perspective, and that's fair. I'm not trying to say that everyone else is wrong, I'd just like to raise awareness of this perspective, because it seems to be one that a lot of people aren't considering.

I hadn't thought about it yesterday, but there's always the possibility of Nintendo putting it back in as free DLC if enough people voice their support.

Anyway, great writeup that makes the removal more disappointing. I had said I would have been fine with the touching aspect removed and everything else kept in before, but now I'm not even so sure about that.

Just a really disappointing situation all around.

I'd like to believe that having it added back as DLC is a realistic possibility (hell, I'd take it as paid DLC), but I can't imagine it actually happening. It'd require quite a bit of additional localization, not just text but lots of extra voice work as well. But at the very least, I think people should still speak up and make their perspectives known, and hopefully Nintendo may see that and maybe things will be different with the next Fire Emblem. I mean, Fates is already a lot better than Awakening was when it comes to inclusivity, and that's not even something that was widely asked for as with Tomodachi Life, yet we got it anyway, if only just a bit. And we would have had even more had it not been for these localization changes, so this is more of an issue for Nintendo's localization teams than Nintendo itself. I'm sure that there's a very real possibility that the feature was cut not just do to controversy, but also due to additional localization costs (but then again, that's a hard argument to make when we've got Xenoblade Chronicles X), and maybe Nintendo of America (or whoever made the decision) thought it was the best decision. But it's a decision that's disappointing a lot of people, and I think that should definitely be voiced—but preferably in a positive manner. Fates is still a fantastic game, after all, and I think people should definitely pick it up and support it, even though we'll unfortunately be missing out on content outside of Japan.

 

[Pancake Mix]

Okay ladies and gents, might be a slight twist, not sure, can anyone clarify? The following appears on the official site which just went up yesterday. Under the gameplay section for My Castle:

http://fireemblemfates.nintendo.com/gameplay/

MY CASTLE
BUILD YOUR HOME BASE
The new My Castle feature lets you create a home away from home for your army. Shop at weapon and armor shops, get new accessories, and practice your strategy by fending off invasions. You can also build relationships with other characters through conversations.

ARMORY
Get weapons here, including swords, staves, and bows.

SMITHY
Upgrade your weapons at this workshop.

LOTTERY SHOP
Try your luck at this shop once per day.

ARENA
Send your fighters into battle for precious resources.

Add new buildings and features to
My Castle as you go.

MEET OTHER PLAYERS WITH StreetPass™

Players you tag with the StreetPass™ feature will show up in the My Castle Travelers' Plaza. Here you can choose to battle their StreetPass teams, exchange certain player data, and more.
You may also visit other players' My Castles, where you can gain access to items you normally wouldn't get.

Does that mean just normal support conversations or what? Either way this seems to confirm it further. I hope we get some sort of actual replacement.... The text that I bolded in the quote above gives me a little hope.