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[UpDownLeftRight]

This will be the only statement I make about this on NeoGAF. So please, save the flamethrowers for The Division...

Of course it will. You just defended a service that shat all over its customers while lamenting another one purely over fanboy antics. I'd imagine any further defense is going to be hard to create. What amazes me is this thread is literally about users being unable to access their content and yet you still find a way to try and prove yourself and GFWL as fighting the good fight. GFWL has been a steaming heap for many years before it decided to stop working all together and customers were the ones paying the price, now it's the same issue but with total lack of access. There's nothing to defend.

 

[Htown]

You have to feel sorry for him in retrospect; he was eager to help GFWL improve but nothing ever came of it. He never did offer any updates on that front and I'd take a guess and say that MS went silent -- it just wanted to look good for five minutes by saying it reached out to the gaming community for input.

Can I just point out here that in this thread the most liked post was Stumpokapow's, in which he stated he "would trust some third-tier service like Greenhouse Games over GFW."

Greenhouse Games was most notable for the first two Penny Arcade games. They closed down upwards of five years ago. Even their defunct website still allows you to download the games you owned, even though you still need your product key. So yes, a third-tier service like Greenhouse Games has turned out to be slightly more reliable than Games For Windows.

Congratulations, Microsoft.

 

[CecilRousso]

ar-monopoly on things and my own experiences with its community of more "fanatical" supporters pretty much keep my involvement with anything Steam to a bare minimum. But I still have the memories when there WAS a choice to be had with PC gaming.

Choice? What choice? We have choices when a game we want is available on multiple platforms. GfWL did nothing to add choices. It was shitty platform, you yourself explained some of the reasons as to why, that was forced up on us for some games, and then it was left to die because of Microsoft, not us.

 

[zma1013]

no one would be willing to host Steam content for free
providing the bandwidth for downloads is a massive cost
and it is unlikely anyone would have the legal rights to provides other companies content

cute dream, not happening

I imagine if Valve were in a bad position where they could no longer operate Steam, some company would come along and buy it up somehow and take over duties. Even if Valve dies off one day, Steam would continue existing in some form. I think it has to until a competitor comes along and steals customers away or changes the PC gaming sales market status quo.

 

[aeolist]

didn't they abandon store apps for windows 8 with the move to 10? i'm sure that won't happen again

 

[BasilZero]

Any chance the remaining games that run GFWL will be patched (GTAIV, SFxTekken) and also Fable 3 being re-released under steamworks?

 

[nubbe]

I imagine if Valve were in a bad position where they could no longer operate Steam, some company would come along and buy it up somehow and take over duties. Even if Valve dies off one day, Steam would continue existing in some form. I think it has to until a competitor comes along and steals customers away or changes the PC gaming sales market status quo.

Steam will obviously be around for quite some time, there is too much value in the consumer base for it to just disappear.
I even expect it to be sold off in the future to some venture capitalist or competitor when the founders/owners are leaving
And this is the golden age for the company since they don't need to look after shareholders interests

The point is, with digital content
You don't own what you buy
You buy a license to use the software
If the service shuts down, tough luck

 

[ShockingAlberto]

This is NOT a "bitter salt" post of any sort.

Interpretations may differ.

 

[Ozium]

...this not just a "service" kind of thing either. When Modern Warfare 2 on the PC came out, they wanted to implement Infinity.net instead of full featured Steamworks (and wanted to use Steam mostly for DRM and achievements and little else) and people wound up ripping that game's online code to shreds within weeks after release because they felt they HAD to make that point. Pretty much killed the online for the PC version of MW2 too. Nothing like 80 foot jumps and infinite grenade launchers because F**K YOU STEAM!. And we all remember that "Boycott Modern Warfare 2" group, right? Because that was real, no matter what certain "Steamheads" would want to tell you.

It's Valve's/Steam's fault for what publishers decide to do with their games?

ok.jpg

 

[00ich]

You buy a license to use the software
If the service shuts down, tough luck

That's not a necessity. Why would that (theoretically) not breach your contract with a publisher? Comparing different license agreements would make an interesting article.
Maybe even put some pressure on the most user unfriendly publishers.

 

[Htown]

Any chance the remaining games that run GFWL will be patched (GTAIV, SFxTekken) and also Fable 3 being re-released under steamworks?

probably not, but at this point it doesn't seem like games that use GFWL are the problem - it's the games you bought from Microsoft

 

[blackMamba1187]

Goodbye Viva Pinata. I never even knew you.

 

[Zedox]

didn't they abandon store apps for windows 8 with the move to 10? i'm sure that won't happen again

No. Microsoft migrated all of the Windows 8 store apps to Windows 10. Everything is still there. I presume they will do the same thing with Windows 10 whenever the next Windows is released (I don't see that happening anytime soon since it's SAAS). People like to compare the Windows 10 store to GFWL...where the number of people GFWL affected is so miniscule compared to the amount of people who bought from Windows 8 store (and yes, people did buy). Windows 10 store ain't going anywhere. It's also going to be the place where you buy Hololens apps from...

 

[JaseC]

Any chance the remaining games that run GFWL will be patched (GTAIV, SFxTekken) and also Fable 3 being re-released under steamworks?

- The store page for GTA4 states that R* cannot guarantee certain features will be accessible in perpetuity, which, in conjunction with the fact the game is SP-only, suggests to me that R* has no intention of moving the game to Social Club and instead will just put up an advisory notice stating that some GFWL-related features are no longer functional
- Capcom is done with GFWL -> Steamworks transitions -- Dead Rising 2/Off the Record, Resident Evil 5 and Super Street Fighter 4 are it
- Microsoft stopped selling the game in late 2013 despite the fact it was and remains perfectly playable, so I'm going with "No" on this one

 

[CecilRousso]

The point is, with digital content
You don't own what you buy
You buy a license to use the software
If the service shuts down, tough luck

And everyone should pay what they feel games are worth on the different services, based on how they feel the games i delivered, how the terms are, how much they trust the company behind them, and how they believe the longevity of the service is.

If I would be prepared to pay $60 for a game on Steam, the service I trust the most, and has the features I want, it's about this for the others:

Origin - $30
uPlay - $20
Win10 Store - $10
GOG - $80
And GfWL if it was still around - $5

And if the game comes with an extra layer of DRM, with restriced activations and additional server depencies, subtract 50% from that.

None of those are set in stone of course. It's of course depedent on the game itself, and it's just a relative comparison for how I feel about the different services.

 

[Parham]

I was one of the bigger GFWL supporters back in the day; I had a lot of fun with it and some of the debates I got into about the service were pretty intense for the time. I never had issues with it, but I also took pride in keeping that handled as best I could.

If you want to compete with Steam, you have to offer a comparable, if not superior, service. Period. Games for Windows Live, from top to bottom, was an awful experience for anyone who had the misfortune of using it to play a game or, as of several months ago, purchased content from its marketplace. I say this as one of the dozen people who bought The Club at launch because I was excited to try out one of the first GFWL games.

 

[grandwizard]

Can I just point out here that in this thread the most liked post was Stumpokapow's, in which he stated he "would trust some third-tier service like Greenhouse Games over GFW."

Greenhouse Games was most notable for the first two Penny Arcade games. They closed down upwards of five years ago. Even their defunct website still allows you to download the games you owned, even though you still need your product key. So yes, a third-tier service like Greenhouse Games has turned out to be slightly more reliable than Games For Windows.

Congratulations, Microsoft.

Amazing.

 

[epmode]

Oh hay, another Live shutdown. I still resent MS after they shut down Live 1.0 to save a few bucks.

There is no way in hell that I will purchase a game on the Windows 10 store. Here's hoping Quantum Break hits worthwhile services.

 

[darthsontin]

This is confirmation of everyone's fears about the all-digital future. Why can't they migrate the purchases to another service like the Windows 10 store?

 

[epmode]

This is confirmation of everyone's fears about the all-digital future.

This is confirmation of everyone's fears about Microsoft being an awful storefront manager. A megacompany that would rather take away your games games than pay for the upkeep of a few old servers.

 

[Dr. Buni]

How could anyone have any confidence in the Win10 store if they don't fix this?

I don't have any confidence in the Win10 store, I just want to play Killer Instinct. I will take my chances.

 

[Phyla]

Any update from Microsoft yet?

 

[Parham]

Any update from Microsoft yet?

Their last update was February 9th:

Hey, guys! I've got no news at this time. I'm still working with the right people to get this resolved for you, but I have no ETA on when it will be resolved or any other news I can provide. Just know that I've been working hard with the appropriate teams to get this sorted for you all. :3 Thanks again for your patience!

In other words, they have been "working" on this issue for almost three months now.

 

[Ludens]

In other words, they have been "working" on this issue for almost three months now.

And people are still buying stuff from those people on Win10 Store. I bet in maybe three, four years you won't find a way to access your purchased content because they decided to go with a new OS dropping the support to the store in favor of Win 12 new super ultra store.

 

[73V3N]

And MS new pc games are only for the win10 store... right?
that sucks, i probably won't get them cause of that

 

[Parham]

And MS new pc games are only for the win10 store... right?
that sucks, i probably won't get them cause of that

That's correct. As far as their future PC games line-up is concerned, it will all be on the Windows 10 store.

 

[Lazaro]

And people are still buying stuff from those people on Win10 Store. I bet in maybe three, four years you won't find a way to access your purchased content because they decided to go with a new OS dropping the support to the store in favor of Win 12 new super ultra store.

Well, I can still access my first Windows 8 Preview program apps from late 2011/early 2012 even after Windows 10 came out with their "Universal Apps."

EDIT: Going through my list it seems BlazBlue Calamity Trigger (XBOX LIVE) has been delisted/removed from the Windows Store. FUUUUUU

Well, I least I got refunded. Might as well buy the superior Steam version with the included soundtracks.

 

[vazel]

I haven't been able to download my games either.

This and the loss of games in the D2D buyout is going to reaffirm the Steam-only mentality that many people have.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Can I just point out here that in this thread the most liked post was Stumpokapow's, in which he stated he "would trust some third-tier service like Greenhouse Games over GFW."

Greenhouse Games was most notable for the first two Penny Arcade games. They closed down upwards of five years ago. Even their defunct website still allows you to download the games you owned, even though you still need your product key. So yes, a third-tier service like Greenhouse Games has turned out to be slightly more reliable than Games For Windows.

Congratulations, Microsoft.

Am I good, or am I good?

 

[charlequin]

This and the loss of games in the D2D buyout is going to reaffirm the Steam-only mentality that many people have.

I think it's important to realize that for the vast, vast majority of people, there isn't actually a "Steam-only mentality" so much as a standard for non-shittiness that only Steam (or these days, maybe Steam and a select group of others) can actually meet.

 

[Htown]

I think it's important to realize that for the vast, vast majority of people, there isn't actually a "Steam-only mentality" so much as a standard for non-shittiness that only Steam (or these days, maybe Steam and a select group of others) can actually meet.

This is the best way of putting it, I think.

Am I good, or am I good?

Eh. You're okay.

 

[VariantX]

I think it's important to realize that for the vast, vast majority of people, there isn't actually a "Steam-only mentality" so much as a standard for non-shittiness that only Steam (or these days, maybe Steam and a select group of others) can actually meet.

I think this is the best way of describing it. It also took steam a good bit of time to get where it is today and I don't see anyway they can sidestep the process of working to earn the trust and deal with people's concerns about their platform.

 

[Lafazar]

Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. I personally don't really "like" Steam. Valve do their fair share of shady things, which I strongly dislike and am critical of.

But I actually do trust them when it comes to still being able to download my purchased games in 10 years, which is the most important aspect to me. GOG.com is even better of course because in addition to that trust I actually like them as a company since they have a strong pro consumer stance.

I don't feel this way about Microsoft, EA, Ubisoft, etc...

 

[Lazaro]

Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. I personally don't really "like" Steam. Valve do their fair share of shady things, which I strongly dislike and am critical of.

But I actually do trust them when it comes to still being able to download my purchased games in 10 years, which is the most important aspect to me. GOG.com is even better of course because in addition to that trust I actually like them as a company since they have a strong pro consumer stance.

I don't feel this way about Microsoft, EA, Ubisoft, etc...

At least EA and Ubisoft still provide physical media for their games. With the Windows Store theirs no way of obtaining your game from outside of an online connection and you can't backup those Windows apps folders as they are encrypted. The Windows Store is really bad in that regard especially if your on a data cap.

 

[viHuGi]

How could anyone have any confidence in the Win10 store if they don't fix this?

You shouldn't even if use it.

 

[Lafazar]

At least EA and Ubisoft still provide physical media for their games. With the Windows Store theirs no way of obtaining your game from outside of an online connection and you can't backup those Windows apps folders as they are encrypted. The Windows Store is really bad in that regard especially if your on a data cap.

Physical media are completely worthless on PC by now since the game still requires an online activation. The only advantage of physical media is that it saves you the time (and in some cases cost) to download.

Once the activation servers go down, you have a nice-looking coaster and that's it.

 

[Lazaro]

Physical media are completely worthless on PC by now since the game still requires an online activation. The only advantage of physical media is that it saves you the time (and in some cases cost) to download.

That's what I meant, yes you need an internet connection to authenticate the CD Key but least you save data and money from using the DVD as an installation source and you backup and preserve the game yourself for when the online service decides to die.

 

[Ludens]

Well, I can still access my first Windows 8 Preview program apps from late 2011/early 2012 even after Windows 10 came out with their "Universal Apps."

EDIT: Going through my list it seems BlazBlue Calamity Trigger (XBOX LIVE) has been delisted/removed from the Windows Store. FUUUUUU

Well, I least I got refunded. Might as well buy the superior Steam version with the included soundtracks.

Sorry, can I ask you how you got a refund? Because I asked for it and it was denied in my case.

 

[onken]

I'm just still mad I can't play Gears PC online anymore - why the fuck didn't Epic patch that shit?! Easily the best game on GFWL.

 

[Gamezone]

And some people are still sad that that they removed the Xbox One DRM? It would eventually turn out like this.

 

[Lafazar]

That's what I meant, yes you need an internet connection to authenticate the CD Key but least you save data and money from using the DVD as an installation source and you backup and preserve the game yourself for when the online service decides to die.

For me not needing to download is not a big plus, since unlimited broadband internet is standard where I live, but I know that's not the case everywhere.

As for the online activation: You still can't play it anymore once the online service dies. Your physical media is effectively nonfunctional and preserves nothing. You will need to download a crack to ever play it again. And at this point why not download the whole cracked game? Both are illegal.

 

[VolticArchangel]

I think it's important to realize that for the vast, vast majority of people, there isn't actually a "Steam-only mentality" so much as a standard for non-shittiness that only Steam (or these days, maybe Steam and a select group of others) can actually meet.

GOG obviously deserves all the love it can get. Also, Origin has come a long way too. Like GOG, it may lack client features, but literally no restrictions as a service. My last MP interaction with UPlay was with Splinter Cell Blacklist and holyshit was it hot garbage. Crossplay Spy vs Mercs between steam version and the UPlay version was a total nightmare. You had to have more players on a specific version in the lobby and then invite the other version players in, to even connect in the first place - some wacky shit like that which made no sense. Took an oath to NEVER buy an MP game on their platform and still going strong. Don't know how they're doing now though.

 

[Shaneus]

I wanted to quickly check out what I still had in GFWL. So I tried opening it, had no luck. Tried downloading the client, which ran, said it was already installed, then failed. Tried to redirect me to this:

I can't even remember what GFWL games I even had :/ Yet I managed to re-download Sega Rally (Revo) from D2D only a week or two ago, complete with my key. Fancy that.

Also, I think The Club (by Bizarre) was a GFWL game too?

Edit: lol, found this here:

Once yours, always yours!
When you purchase your digital game or add-on, you can rest assured that you can re-download it at any time on any PC, anytime, anywhere. Receive automatic game updates and patch downloads for installed games!

 

[spineduke]

As a third party publisher, you'd have to reach a new level of stupid to just limit yourself as a win10 store exclusive. You can smell the desperation on the website. I wouldn't want to wish that on anyone, good or bad.

My last MP interaction with UPlay was with Splinter Cell Blacklist and holyshit was it hot garbage. Crossplay Spy vs Mercs between steam version and the UPlay version was a total nightmare. You had to have more players on a specific version in the lobby and then invite the other version players in, to even connect in the first place - some wacky shit like that which made no sense. Took an oath to NEVER buy an MP game on their platform and still going strong. Don't know how they're doing now though.

OMG. There go my hopes for playing Blacklist and FC3 multiplayer. Serves me right for jumping on the Humble Bundle deal.

 

[Drippy]

I can't even remember what GFWL games I even had :/ Yet I managed to re-download Sega Rally (Revo) from D2D only a week or two ago, complete with my key. Fancy that.

Also, I think The Club (by Bizarre) was a GFWL game too?

But SEGA Rally is not a GFWL game. It only has Games for Windows logo on the box, but without LIVE service.

The Club is a GFWL game, yes.

 

[Three]

Edit: lol, found this here:

I remember during the DRM fiasco people actually pointed to something similar saying something like this will never happen and that their fears were unfounded.

 

[Vital Tundra]

I'm so mad Capcom hasn't integrated steamworks for Lost Planet 2. It striaght up doesn't work for me on GFWL.

 

[MaLDo]

RIP

Also sucks that we'll never get Viva Pinata now, but whatever. Say what you want about uPlay and Origin but at least they never gave up and locked away purchases.

Bulletstorm is likely forever screwed isn't it?

Viva Piñata and Bulletstorm work with xliveless. And you can buy retail copies on ebay.

 

[Auto-Reply]

I wanted to quickly check out what I still had in GFWL. So I tried opening it, had no luck. Tried downloading the client, which ran, said it was already installed, then failed. Tried to redirect me to this:


I can't even remember what GFWL games I even had :/ Yet I managed to re-download Sega Rally (Revo) from D2D only a week or two ago, complete with my key. Fancy that.

Also, I think The Club (by Bizarre) was a GFWL game too?

Edit: lol, found this here:

Should be made more public on popular sites, once their next marketing push for Windows 10 and it's store goes down this should make the rounds alongside a warning regarding the Windows 10 store. I feel like Microsoft needs a constant reminder in the public eye so they don't spiral out of control.

 

[JaseC]

I'm just still mad I can't play Gears PC online anymore - why the fuck didn't Epic patch that shit?! Easily the best game on GFWL.

Epic owned the game but it couldn't patch out GFWL without Microsoft's approval as its publishing contract was still in effect. Bulletstorm is in the same situation -- PCF can't do anything until publishing rights revert back to it as the EA Partners contract has yet to expire.