QuicheFontaine
Member
I'm a dual citizen that has never lived in the UK. For that reason I don't / can't vote in national elections. Would I be able to vote in this?
If you can't vote in a UK General Election, you can't vote in this.
I'm a dual citizen that has never lived in the UK. For that reason I don't / can't vote in national elections. Would I be able to vote in this?
It's nice to see that at the very least some people aren't all bad.
Reluctantly leaning towards 'out'.
I'm pro-European in principle, but I think the EU has become a dysfunctional system crippled by indecision and incoherence. The EU is wracked by crises of its own making, and has proven almost completely incapable of effectively solving them.
The EU needs to be substantially reformed because it's hurting its citizens. But there's very little chance of member states agreeing to any kind of cohesive reform package, because the key cultural-political blocs inside the EU (the Visegrad Group, 'Club Med', France, UK-Netherlands, etc) have fundamentally different (and often incompatible) visions for what Europe should become. The European public also appear to have become significantly more hostile to the prospect of a European superstate, and this further restricts the options for empowering coherent system leadership.
The EU looks like a union until it tries to be one. It's the modern Holy Roman Empire, and I think the spectre of Brexit/Grexit/immigration/stagnancy might be Napoleon coming over the hill.
One of the only places it does, polls on many big media sites are pushing 90% out.In. Glad to see In winning on here by a wide margin at least.
You can thank the likes of Britain for the hybrid Inter-governmentalist/Supra-nationalist mess of a system that we now have due to their insistence the EU doesn't become a Federation.
The EU would work FAR better had we decided to become a Federation with a single executive (not one split over multiple sphere's of power like the Council, Commission and even ECB), none of this half-baked shite we've got with elements of a federation (Parliament, Central Bank, pseudo-Prime Minister and Cabinet) and elements of the UN (European Council, non stop fooking summits of EU leaders, Merkel!) clashing with each other and where nothing gets done.
Get rid of the Council, remove its executive functions and replace it with a Senate with one state, one vote. And merge the Commission President with the Council President to create a powerful EU President elected by universal suffrage. The time has come where countries are either 100% committed to the Union or not at all. Norway, Switzerland, Iceland and Britain should be made to fully join or fully leave, no more cherry picking of what suits them. So in a sense I won't be too upset if Britain does decide to leave, it might help speed up decision making in the Union and bring about closer political integration. God knows we could do with some real change in the EU.
One of the only places it does, polls on many big media sites are pushing 90% out.
You can thank the likes of Britain for the hybrid Inter-governmentalist/Supra-nationalist mess of a system that we now have due to their insistence the EU doesn't become a Federation.
The EU would work FAR better had we decided to become a Federation with a single executive (not one split over multiple sphere's of power like the Council, Commission and even ECB), none of this half-baked shite we've got with elements of a federation (Parliament, Central Bank, pseudo-Prime Minister and Cabinet) and elements of the UN (European Council, non stop fooking summits of EU leaders, Merkel!) clashing with each other and where nothing gets done.
Get rid of the Council, remove its executive functions and replace it with a Senate with one state, one vote. And merge the Commission President with the Council President to create a powerful EU President elected by universal suffrage. The time has come where countries are either 100% committed to the Union or not at all. Norway, Switzerland, Iceland and Britain should be made to fully join or fully leave, no more cherry picking of what suits them. So in a sense I won't be too upset if Britain does decide to leave, it might help speed up decision making in the Union and bring about closer political integration. God knows we could do with some real change in the EU.
Surely you know that this isn't true. The OECD has pointed out numerous times that the UK is the least regulated EU country and issues over exports to other countries being blocked because of regulation is hardly going to be changed if we leave, if anything it would be worse.
Not only that but most of the legislation we keep is home grown and there is no evidence that this situation would change upon leaving. It's actually hilarious to see people saying this as our lawmakers have been consistently pushing for more regulation and not less. Not only that but smaller businesses would not be free of EU regulation if they supply to larger businesses that do export.
To be entirely clear, the National Institute of Economic and Social Research has noted that the Tories have presented far bigger interference in the market than all EU regulation put together and furthermore our own domestic shortcomings (education, infrastructure, etc...) are far more damaging to domestic growth and employment than Brussels.
Furthermore, the Centre for European Reform has concluded that British trade with the EU is 55% higher than it would be if we were outside. I know that much argument has been drawn that if not in the EU market it would go down because we could trade more with China, India, America or whomever else 'Euroskeptics' would like to claim but this makes little sense when one considers that Germany's exports to China are already 300% larger than ours. Jesus, most of our FDI comes from the EU, it's beggar's belief that we should leave. This loss of FDI would lower our GDP by about 2.25%. Actual GDP loss or the lack thereof are so here-there-everywhere that I'd rather not even get into those numbers.
I know this isn't all in response to you but it is a few points of contention which have been bubbling within me today.
Out. All this bullshit scaremongering needs to stop. European companies will trade with the UK regardless. And Brussels needs to stop telling us how to run our own country.
There's been considerable scaremongering from the "out" crowd. Not to mention some of the patronizing I've got for being pro-EU, even if I am completely up-front with it's faults: being told that I'm simply unable to comprehend why the EU is bad because I'm young, from a middle-class background and have a degree, for example.
To be fair, it's on both sides and it makes it really hard for the average man on the street to know what is and is not fact. I actually disagree with having a referendum in principal because I don't think the general public (me included) are clued up enough to be able to make such a monumental decision.
Oh, I know. With respect though, is any paper actually advocating an in campaign. The Daily Express and Mail aren't exactly offering fair and balenced views of the referendum (not that they do on anything).
Has the UK any papers that aren't utter shit rags?
The Guardian spouts utter garbage at times too.Yeah The Guardian. Every other paper has got Murdoch's greasy mitts all over them though.
I do love an anarchic perspective. Glad you see the cost of the gamble at least. But I suspect meaningful reform is more likely to happen with the UK on board and it would result more in a collapse at our door step.For me voting to leave is more than self interest, from a personal or national perspective. I genuinely think the continent would be better off without the EU, certainly as it exists now at least. At the moment it has extended the single currency to far too many many states. That it's also a political union with an agenda that doesn't match the aspirations of many member states further divides the continent rather than uniting it.
Britain leaving would I think dramatically increase the speed at which the union is reformed or replaced.
The Guardian spouts utter garbage at times too.
OUT
A free trade agreement of simply goods and services should of sufficed. Britain should not be in a political union nor should the EU have been turned into a political union.
To be fair, it's on both sides and it makes it really hard for the average man on the street to know what is and is not fact. I actually disagree with having a referendum in principal because I don't think the general public (me included) are clued up enough to be able to make such a monumental decision.
Papers and tv still have massive influence. Those young people on Twitter and Youtube use the info someone got from there to talk about. That information doesn't magically appear on social media with issues like this.I"m quite young but I get the impression papers don't have as much influence as they used to. It's just one of those discussion points that lingers like a fart. I think most people are going to vote on very emotional terms about what has affected them over recent years.
All the young people, if they bother to vote will probably be getting their information from Twitter and YouTube.
This is not just because of Britain. Nobody wants this, at least in the short term. You can't make a federation out of different countries without massive trouble. That is still the main problem in the EU, we are not European, we are French, German, Spanish, etc. Just look at the complaints when money goes towards other countries for development or subsidies there. We don't want to pay for other countries. Forcing a new government like that on top of the current nations is impossible. That has to grow slowly, or start with a few states in and proving joining is a good thing. Now it is too late.You can thank the likes of Britain for the hybrid Inter-governmentalist/Supra-nationalist mess of a system that we now have due to their insistence the EU doesn't become a Federation.
The EU would work FAR better had we decided to become a Federation with a single executive (not one split over multiple sphere's of power like the Council, Commission and even ECB), none of this half-baked shite we've got with elements of a federation (Parliament, Central Bank, pseudo-Prime Minister and Cabinet) and elements of the UN (European Council, non stop fooking summits of EU leaders, Merkel!) clashing with each other and where nothing gets done.
Get rid of the Council, remove its executive functions and replace it with a Senate with one state, one vote. And merge the Commission President with the Council President to create a powerful EU President elected by universal suffrage. The time has come where countries are either 100% committed to the Union or not at all. Norway, Switzerland, Iceland and Britain should be made to fully join or fully leave, no more cherry picking of what suits them. So in a sense I won't be too upset if Britain does decide to leave, it might help speed up decision making in the Union and bring about closer political integration. God knows we could do with some real change in the EU.
Curse my idiotic brain. I clicked "yes" when I meant "I want England to stay in the EU" and then reread the poll question. Well better I make that mistake now than at the polls!
I"m quite young but I get the impression papers don't have as much influence as they used to. It's just one of those discussion points that lingers like a fart.
Curse my idiotic brain. I clicked "yes" when I meant "I want England to stay in the EU" and then reread the poll question.
Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
Remain a member of the European Union
Leave the European Union
Refugee crisis and trying to manage the people traveling through there. Bit shitty now with Greece basically without money and still blaming them for not securing their borders.I heard the Visegrad 4 along with Austria wants to put up a fence around greece? What the heck is going on over there.
If it would become a United States of Europe with the USA as a template, wouldn't that solve the complaints about being undemocratic? Because then you get to vote for the president and others.Out.
Only because I fear ever closer union while in theory is a good ideal, in practice will be undemocratic. Besides I don't want United States of Europe.
I blame Merkel. She invited all the migrants with open arms causing stress in Greece and Eastern EuropeRefugee crisis and trying to manage the people traveling through there. Bit shitty now with Greece basically without money and still blaming them for not securing their borders.
Refugee crisis and trying to manage the people traveling through there. Bit shitty now with Greece basically without money and still blaming them for not securing their borders.
I see the poll results, most want to stay in, Is that what other polls suggest? Is the internet/GAF population an outlier compared to other britons?
TV whole different argument. I was talking specifically about papers. Further still, I think YouTube and social media have many many more voices, that are more diverse than any single opinion any media giant has. To boil down social media to little more than a vector for traditional media of the past is pretty short sighted.Papers and tv still have massive influence. Those young people on Twitter and Youtube use the info someone got from there to talk about. That information doesn't magically appear on social media with issues like this.
Surprised to see the Mail quite low. Is this just the paper or their web presence? I only ask because one entry isolates an app.yep. it's just a tedious and patronising left wing scapegoat.
the sun and the mail will be strongly for leaving and remain will win easily *whatever*
I think papers have a big impact on social media. A lot of times those articles from them are shared, and journalists from papers are very active on Twitter in coverage of events.TV whole different argument. I was talking specifically about papers.
I blame Merkel. She invited all the migrants with open arms causing stress in Greece and Eastern Europe
Forcing a new government like that on top of the current nations is impossible. That has to grow slowly, or start with a few states in and proving joining is a good thing. Now it is too late.
Reluctantly leaning towards 'out'.
I'm pro-European in principle, but I think the EU has become a dysfunctional system crippled by indecision and incoherence. The EU is wracked by crises of its own making, and has proven almost completely incapable of effectively solving them.
The EU needs to be substantially reformed because it's hurting its citizens. But there's very little chance of member states agreeing to any kind of cohesive reform package, because the key cultural-political blocs inside the EU (the Visegrad Group, 'Club Med', France, UK-Netherlands, etc) have fundamentally different (and often incompatible) visions for what Europe should become. The European public also appear to have become significantly more hostile to the prospect of a European superstate, and this further restricts the options for empowering coherent system leadership.
The EU looks like a union until it tries to be one. It's the modern Holy Roman Empire, and I think the spectre of Brexit/Grexit/immigration/stagnancy might be Napoleon coming over the hill.
I think that is the only solution in the long run. have a federal government that deals with certain issues have local and state governments that deal with others. pretty much like the US. you see in the US that this benefits all states (I mean lets say Louisiana would be a sovereign state and would have to deal with all issues it has alone.. that wouldnt be benefetial for lousiana) even though the system is quite complex and convoluted (its still heaps and bounds better than the EU as a whole).
The greek issue is similar, if financial politics would have been done centrally you wouldnt have a. some states overspending and b. big political problems in solving a state bankruptcy (federal government would roll in pay the bills but govern the state financially until it can stay on its own)
and yes UK is one of the biggest stumbling blocks to reach that future so i am for an out as well.
Übermatik;196001915 said:The UK should stay in the EU.
Boston, Lincolnshire?