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[QuicheFontaine]

I'm a dual citizen that has never lived in the UK. For that reason I don't / can't vote in national elections. Would I be able to vote in this?

If you can't vote in a UK General Election, you can't vote in this.

 

[dapperbandit]

It's nice to see that at the very least some people aren't all bad.

lol

Because wanting the UK to stay in the EU is of course the purest indicator of one's moral fibre.

By way of curiosity, do you live in the UK?

 

[Bits N Pieces]

I'm voting to stay in.

Being from Scotland it'll be interesting to see how the rest of the UK votes.

 

[Fernando Fernandez]

Few months to go and I'm still on the fence. I'm slightly leaning In because I'm worried what the Tories would do without EU law.

 

[Jumeira]

Out.

But I'm swaying in and out daily.

 

[Oriel]

Reluctantly leaning towards 'out'.

I'm pro-European in principle, but I think the EU has become a dysfunctional system crippled by indecision and incoherence. The EU is wracked by crises of its own making, and has proven almost completely incapable of effectively solving them.

The EU needs to be substantially reformed because it's hurting its citizens. But there's very little chance of member states agreeing to any kind of cohesive reform package, because the key cultural-political blocs inside the EU (the Visegrad Group, 'Club Med', France, UK-Netherlands, etc) have fundamentally different (and often incompatible) visions for what Europe should become. The European public also appear to have become significantly more hostile to the prospect of a European superstate, and this further restricts the options for empowering coherent system leadership.

The EU looks like a union until it tries to be one. It's the modern Holy Roman Empire, and I think the spectre of Brexit/Grexit/immigration/stagnancy might be Napoleon coming over the hill.

You can thank the likes of Britain for the hybrid Inter-governmentalist/Supra-nationalist mess of a system that we now have due to their insistence the EU doesn't become a Federation.

The EU would work FAR better had we decided to become a Federation with a single executive (not one split over multiple sphere's of power like the Council, Commission and even ECB), none of this half-baked shite we've got with elements of a federation (Parliament, Central Bank, pseudo-Prime Minister and Cabinet) and elements of the UN (European Council, non stop fooking summits of EU leaders, Merkel!) clashing with each other and where nothing gets done.

Get rid of the Council, remove its executive functions and replace it with a Senate with one state, one vote. And merge the Commission President with the Council President to create a powerful EU President elected by universal suffrage. The time has come where countries are either 100% committed to the Union or not at all. Norway, Switzerland, Iceland and Britain should be made to fully join or fully leave, no more cherry picking of what suits them. So in a sense I won't be too upset if Britain does decide to leave, it might help speed up decision making in the Union and bring about closer political integration. God knows we could do with some real change in the EU.

 

[Fruitster]

Out for certain.

 

[Juicy Bob]

IN MOTHERFUCKERS

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

In. Glad to see In winning on here by a wide margin at least.

 

[danowat]

In. Glad to see In winning on here by a wide margin at least.

One of the only places it does, polls on many big media sites are pushing 90% out.

 

[exmachina64]

You can thank the likes of Britain for the hybrid Inter-governmentalist/Supra-nationalist mess of a system that we now have due to their insistence the EU doesn't become a Federation.

The EU would work FAR better had we decided to become a Federation with a single executive (not one split over multiple sphere's of power like the Council, Commission and even ECB), none of this half-baked shite we've got with elements of a federation (Parliament, Central Bank, pseudo-Prime Minister and Cabinet) and elements of the UN (European Council, non stop fooking summits of EU leaders, Merkel!) clashing with each other and where nothing gets done.

Get rid of the Council, remove its executive functions and replace it with a Senate with one state, one vote. And merge the Commission President with the Council President to create a powerful EU President elected by universal suffrage. The time has come where countries are either 100% committed to the Union or not at all. Norway, Switzerland, Iceland and Britain should be made to fully join or fully leave, no more cherry picking of what suits them. So in a sense I won't be too upset if Britain does decide to leave, it might help speed up decision making in the Union and bring about closer political integration. God knows we could do with some real change in the EU.

This.

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

One of the only places it does, polls on many big media sites are pushing 90% out.

Oh, I know. With respect though, is any paper actually advocating an in campaign. The Daily Express and Mail aren't exactly offering fair and balenced views of the referendum (not that they do on anything).

 

[Boy Wander]

Out. All this bullshit scaremongering needs to stop. European companies will trade with the UK regardless. And Brussels needs to stop telling us how to run our own country.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

You can thank the likes of Britain for the hybrid Inter-governmentalist/Supra-nationalist mess of a system that we now have due to their insistence the EU doesn't become a Federation.

The EU would work FAR better had we decided to become a Federation with a single executive (not one split over multiple sphere's of power like the Council, Commission and even ECB), none of this half-baked shite we've got with elements of a federation (Parliament, Central Bank, pseudo-Prime Minister and Cabinet) and elements of the UN (European Council, non stop fooking summits of EU leaders, Merkel!) clashing with each other and where nothing gets done.

Get rid of the Council, remove its executive functions and replace it with a Senate with one state, one vote. And merge the Commission President with the Council President to create a powerful EU President elected by universal suffrage. The time has come where countries are either 100% committed to the Union or not at all. Norway, Switzerland, Iceland and Britain should be made to fully join or fully leave, no more cherry picking of what suits them. So in a sense I won't be too upset if Britain does decide to leave, it might help speed up decision making in the Union and bring about closer political integration. God knows we could do with some real change in the EU.

To answer the failures of the EU, we must have more EU.

 

[Ding-Ding]

Surely you know that this isn't true. The OECD has pointed out numerous times that the UK is the least regulated EU country and issues over exports to other countries being blocked because of regulation is hardly going to be changed if we leave, if anything it would be worse.

Not only that but most of the legislation we keep is home grown and there is no evidence that this situation would change upon leaving. It's actually hilarious to see people saying this as our lawmakers have been consistently pushing for more regulation and not less. Not only that but smaller businesses would not be free of EU regulation if they supply to larger businesses that do export.

To be entirely clear, the National Institute of Economic and Social Research has noted that the Tories have presented far bigger interference in the market than all EU regulation put together and furthermore our own domestic shortcomings (education, infrastructure, etc...) are far more damaging to domestic growth and employment than Brussels.

Furthermore, the Centre for European Reform has concluded that British trade with the EU is 55% higher than it would be if we were outside. I know that much argument has been drawn that if not in the EU market it would go down because we could trade more with China, India, America or whomever else 'Euroskeptics' would like to claim but this makes little sense when one considers that Germany's exports to China are already 300% larger than ours. Jesus, most of our FDI comes from the EU, it's beggar's belief that we should leave. This loss of FDI would lower our GDP by about 2.25%. Actual GDP loss or the lack thereof are so here-there-everywhere that I'd rather not even get into those numbers.

I know this isn't all in response to you but it is a few points of contention which have been bubbling within me today.

Sorry but it is true. Its part of my job within the civil service. Sometimes my job is blocked because of existing EU regs, others I have to fight new legislation. Though most I lose, others I can fend off by trolling though old UK legislation and finding something so hopefully we can invoke grandfather rights. Though even that can be a bitch fight.

There is alot that goes on behind closed doors that if the public ever found out they would have kittens. You want an example, here is one. Did you know the British government was actually going to try to bail out british steel companies with loans and contracts, but was told by the EU to drop it as It was against state aid rules. The real kicker though is the EU turned a blind eye to when other countries within the EU backed theirs financially.

Hell there is even disparity between England and Scotland. There is a UK grant which has been going for close to 50 years, even though it falls under state aid. As its so old, it falls under grandfather rights. So the EU cant touch it.

Recently though the Scots changed theirs but the EU didn't care and no one challenged it. The UK tried to do the same for the English side of the border. Guess what... France, Germany and Italy challenged it, as they said it was too much of a change so it was no longer the same grant. So the reforms for the English side of the border were dropped.

This kind of shit happens all the time. Smaller countries continually get away with things the UK cannot because they are considered too small to challenge the larger countries. France and Germany also get away with alot because they always have each others backs. The UK though is mostly alone, with only a few supporting us occasionally (mainly the Danes). Others though want to help, like Ireland but they dare not because the EU has them over a barrel

Oh, funny thing. I used to be pro-EU before I started this job.

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

Out. All this bullshit scaremongering needs to stop. European companies will trade with the UK regardless. And Brussels needs to stop telling us how to run our own country.

There's been considerable scaremongering from the "out" crowd. Not to mention some of the patronizing I've got for being pro-EU, even if I am completely up-front with it's faults: being told that I'm simply unable to comprehend why the EU is bad because I'm young, from a middle-class background and have a degree, for example.

 

[Boy Wander]

There's been considerable scaremongering from the "out" crowd. Not to mention some of the patronizing I've got for being pro-EU, even if I am completely up-front with it's faults: being told that I'm simply unable to comprehend why the EU is bad because I'm young, from a middle-class background and have a degree, for example.

To be fair, it's on both sides and it makes it really hard for the average man on the street to know what is and is not fact. I actually disagree with having a referendum in principal because I don't think the general public (me included) are clued up enough to be able to make such a monumental decision.

 

[Cryxo93]

In.

 

[RedShift]

To be fair, it's on both sides and it makes it really hard for the average man on the street to know what is and is not fact. I actually disagree with having a referendum in principal because I don't think the general public (me included) are clued up enough to be able to make such a monumental decision.

To be honest this is how I feel. The country can't make a democratic decision when the media has been forcing constant exaggerations and outright lies about the issue for year.

Bendy banana anyone?

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

Oh, I know. With respect though, is any paper actually advocating an in campaign. The Daily Express and Mail aren't exactly offering fair and balenced views of the referendum (not that they do on anything).

Has the UK any papers that aren't utter shit rags?

 

[Showaddy]

Has the UK any papers that aren't utter shit rags?

Yeah The Guardian. Every other paper has got Murdoch's greasy mitts all over them though.

 

[Visualante2]

I lean heavily towards remaining a member of the EU because I feel we would be worse off in terms of worker rights, civil liberties, probably some other stuff that I'm too stupid to comprehend. I'm looking forward to hearing from both sides of the debate.

 

[jimbobsmells]

Yeah The Guardian. Every other paper has got Murdoch's greasy mitts all over them though.

The Guardian spouts utter garbage at times too.

 

[Visualante2]

I"m quite young but I get the impression papers don't have as much influence as they used to. It's just one of those discussion points that lingers like a fart. I think most people are going to vote on very emotional terms about what has affected them over recent years.

All the young people, if they bother to vote will probably be getting their information from Twitter and YouTube.

For me voting to leave is more than self interest, from a personal or national perspective. I genuinely think the continent would be better off without the EU, certainly as it exists now at least. At the moment it has extended the single currency to far too many many states. That it's also a political union with an agenda that doesn't match the aspirations of many member states further divides the continent rather than uniting it.

Britain leaving would I think dramatically increase the speed at which the union is reformed or replaced.

I do love an anarchic perspective. Glad you see the cost of the gamble at least. But I suspect meaningful reform is more likely to happen with the UK on board and it would result more in a collapse at our door step.

 

[Dougald]

The Guardian spouts utter garbage at times too.

That's normally the spelling errors though

 

[SporeCrawler]

OUT

A free trade agreement of simply goods and services should of sufficed. Britain should not be in a political union nor should the EU have been turned into a political union.

who says EU will accept a FTA with Britain? and no EU should turn into a closer political union. the greek financial crisis and the refugee crisis just demonstrated that. problems are too big for each individual country and EU is too slow and has too little powers to solve them.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Curse my idiotic brain. I clicked "yes" when I meant "I want England to stay in the EU" and then reread the poll question. Well better I make that mistake now than at the polls!

To be fair, it's on both sides and it makes it really hard for the average man on the street to know what is and is not fact. I actually disagree with having a referendum in principal because I don't think the general public (me included) are clued up enough to be able to make such a monumental decision.

I feel this is the sensible way of describing how I feel about it. If we leave it feels like it's going to be a disaster, but I can't really explain why because there's so many half truths going about.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I"m quite young but I get the impression papers don't have as much influence as they used to. It's just one of those discussion points that lingers like a fart. I think most people are going to vote on very emotional terms about what has affected them over recent years.

All the young people, if they bother to vote will probably be getting their information from Twitter and YouTube.

Papers and tv still have massive influence. Those young people on Twitter and Youtube use the info someone got from there to talk about. That information doesn't magically appear on social media with issues like this.

You can thank the likes of Britain for the hybrid Inter-governmentalist/Supra-nationalist mess of a system that we now have due to their insistence the EU doesn't become a Federation.

The EU would work FAR better had we decided to become a Federation with a single executive (not one split over multiple sphere's of power like the Council, Commission and even ECB), none of this half-baked shite we've got with elements of a federation (Parliament, Central Bank, pseudo-Prime Minister and Cabinet) and elements of the UN (European Council, non stop fooking summits of EU leaders, Merkel!) clashing with each other and where nothing gets done.

Get rid of the Council, remove its executive functions and replace it with a Senate with one state, one vote. And merge the Commission President with the Council President to create a powerful EU President elected by universal suffrage. The time has come where countries are either 100% committed to the Union or not at all. Norway, Switzerland, Iceland and Britain should be made to fully join or fully leave, no more cherry picking of what suits them. So in a sense I won't be too upset if Britain does decide to leave, it might help speed up decision making in the Union and bring about closer political integration. God knows we could do with some real change in the EU.

This is not just because of Britain. Nobody wants this, at least in the short term. You can't make a federation out of different countries without massive trouble. That is still the main problem in the EU, we are not European, we are French, German, Spanish, etc. Just look at the complaints when money goes towards other countries for development or subsidies there. We don't want to pay for other countries. Forcing a new government like that on top of the current nations is impossible. That has to grow slowly, or start with a few states in and proving joining is a good thing. Now it is too late.

 

[Rktk]

Curse my idiotic brain. I clicked "yes" when I meant "I want England to stay in the EU" and then reread the poll question. Well better I make that mistake now than at the polls!

That's why the wording on the actual ballot is so important.

 

[Empty]

I"m quite young but I get the impression papers don't have as much influence as they used to. It's just one of those discussion points that lingers like a fart.

yep. it's just a tedious and patronising left wing scapegoat.

the sun and the mail will be strongly for leaving and remain will win easily *whatever*

 

[MLH]

Curse my idiotic brain. I clicked "yes" when I meant "I want England to stay in the EU" and then reread the poll question.

I wouldn't be surprised if many people do the same thing on the day, assuming it's a Yes/ No question. Have they said what'll be, Yes/No or In/Out?

Some quick research answered my question: It appears it'll be:

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the European Union
Leave the European Union

No ambiguity of confusion possible there, although that's usually the case, these things are carefully considered.

 

[superdeluxe]

I heard the Visegrad 4 along with Austria wants to put up a fence around greece? What the heck is going on over there.

 

[hal9001]

Out.

Only because I fear ever closer union while in theory is a good ideal, in practice will be undemocratic. Besides I don't want United States of Europe.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I heard the Visegrad 4 along with Austria wants to put up a fence around greece? What the heck is going on over there.

Refugee crisis and trying to manage the people traveling through there. Bit shitty now with Greece basically without money and still blaming them for not securing their borders.

Out.

Only because I fear ever closer union while in theory is a good ideal, in practice will be undemocratic. Besides I don't want United States of Europe.

If it would become a United States of Europe with the USA as a template, wouldn't that solve the complaints about being undemocratic? Because then you get to vote for the president and others.

 

[superdeluxe]

I see the poll results, most want to stay in, Is that what other polls suggest? Is the internet/GAF population an outlier compared to other britons?

 

[gutter_trash]

Refugee crisis and trying to manage the people traveling through there. Bit shitty now with Greece basically without money and still blaming them for not securing their borders.

I blame Merkel. She invited all the migrants with open arms causing stress in Greece and Eastern Europe

 

[superdeluxe]

Refugee crisis and trying to manage the people traveling through there. Bit shitty now with Greece basically without money and still blaming them for not securing their borders.

Yikes.

 

[kavanf1]

EU membership is not necessarily the be all and end all. Norway and Switzerland do ok with the trade agreements they have in place, despite not being members. In fact both countries are often cited as model places to live.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

I see the poll results, most want to stay in, Is that what other polls suggest? Is the internet/GAF population an outlier compared to other britons?

This wiki page is a useful page that lists most polls. It shows 15 polls in 2016: 6 with leave winning, 9 with remain winning. GAF is absolutely not representative of the country at large.

 

[Visualante2]

Papers and tv still have massive influence. Those young people on Twitter and Youtube use the info someone got from there to talk about. That information doesn't magically appear on social media with issues like this.

TV whole different argument. I was talking specifically about papers. Further still, I think YouTube and social media have many many more voices, that are more diverse than any single opinion any media giant has. To boil down social media to little more than a vector for traditional media of the past is pretty short sighted.

yep. it's just a tedious and patronising left wing scapegoat.

the sun and the mail will be strongly for leaving and remain will win easily *whatever*

Surprised to see the Mail quite low. Is this just the paper or their web presence? I only ask because one entry isolates an app.

 

[ClosingADoor]

TV whole different argument. I was talking specifically about papers.

I think papers have a big impact on social media. A lot of times those articles from them are shared, and journalists from papers are very active on Twitter in coverage of events.

 

[Jisgsaw]

I blame Merkel. She invited all the migrants with open arms causing stress in Greece and Eastern Europe

I blame the EU from the past decades or so.
It was known for years that the southern countries couldn't handle the illegal immigration even back then, but EU immobilism lead to the clusterfuck we have now.

Forcing a new government like that on top of the current nations is impossible. That has to grow slowly, or start with a few states in and proving joining is a good thing. Now it is too late.

Well, doing a federal model would oppose the founding father's intentions (which isn't necessarily a bad thing).
Anyway, something has to change, and it sure would have been easier with 15 (or heck even the original 6) members.

Edit: and I say that being a big EU supporter.

 

[napalmjam]

I'd like to stay in but being scottish means there's no chance

 

[Griss]

Reluctantly leaning towards 'out'.

I'm pro-European in principle, but I think the EU has become a dysfunctional system crippled by indecision and incoherence. The EU is wracked by crises of its own making, and has proven almost completely incapable of effectively solving them.

The EU needs to be substantially reformed because it's hurting its citizens. But there's very little chance of member states agreeing to any kind of cohesive reform package, because the key cultural-political blocs inside the EU (the Visegrad Group, 'Club Med', France, UK-Netherlands, etc) have fundamentally different (and often incompatible) visions for what Europe should become. The European public also appear to have become significantly more hostile to the prospect of a European superstate, and this further restricts the options for empowering coherent system leadership.

The EU looks like a union until it tries to be one. It's the modern Holy Roman Empire, and I think the spectre of Brexit/Grexit/immigration/stagnancy might be Napoleon coming over the hill.

Don't have time to fully type out my thoughts so I'll type this as it's close to how I feel. I will say that if Britain was in Schengen and the Euro currency the choice would be much easier (for out) but seeing as they already get special treatment it really does make it trickier.

I think that is the only solution in the long run. have a federal government that deals with certain issues have local and state governments that deal with others. pretty much like the US. you see in the US that this benefits all states (I mean lets say Louisiana would be a sovereign state and would have to deal with all issues it has alone.. that wouldnt be benefetial for lousiana) even though the system is quite complex and convoluted (its still heaps and bounds better than the EU as a whole).

The greek issue is similar, if financial politics would have been done centrally you wouldnt have a. some states overspending and b. big political problems in solving a state bankruptcy (federal government would roll in pay the bills but govern the state financially until it can stay on its own)

and yes UK is one of the biggest stumbling blocks to reach that future so i am for an out as well.

But if that's the only solution, we're in trouble because the eurostates are too different culturally and liguistically to accept central rule, which in practice would be german/french rule due to population factors and economic power / historic leadership of the EU.

People won't accept that, so if that's the only solution to the EU issue then what you're really stating is that the EU is fucked.

I know that as an Irishman if we moved towards federal european government with proportional representation I wouldn't expect Irish issues to ever have any priority ever again. It would scare the shit out of me.

 

[Par Score]

Cameron's fucked up wheeling and dealing has been an utter shambles, but thankfully he doesn't seem to have done any real damage, so it's a definite IN from me.

Ideally the rest of the EU would be tired of our shit, and we'd be forcibly moved towards ever closer union, but the Tories and Little Englanders would prefer we lived on the fringes, with fuck all influence or power to shape our biggest export market.

 

[Ganzlinger]

Not from UK.

I'd vote for In.

 

[Moozo]

Leaning towards in. Want to do some more research first.


All I can think about is the staggering cost it would take to facilitate leaving.

 

[Carl]

The UK should stay in the EU.



Boston, Lincolnshire?

Yes sir!

 

[Violet_0]

the third option is much appreciated
I'd hate to miss out on voting on a poll, like a junior

 

[MLH]

I'll most likely vote to stay in.
The one reason why I would want out is because of the general public's dismissive attitude to European elections.
Every time MEPs are up for election, people end up voting for UKIP and other Euro-sceptic parties, then complain Europe doesn't do anything for them. No shit, voting for people that do nothing but disrupt the political process and instead just lining their own pockets aren't doing things in your interest.
At least leaving Europe would be one less funding point for UKIP (ironic, I know), but it's still a stupid reason for wanting out. I just hope if we stay in, people start taking European elections more seriously.