We don't just group police by default with no outside evidence. It's the historical evidence that an overwhelming majority of them will adhere to the Blue Wall even in the face of outrageous circumstances that allows us to say that there are quite a lot of enablers among them.
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Cops in standoff w/couple in car shoot them dead...turns out the couple was sleeping
- Thread starter GK86
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We don't just group police by default with no outside evidence. It's the historical evidence that an overwhelming majority of them will adhere to the Blue Wall even in the face of outrageous circumstances that allows us to say that there are quite a lot of enablers among them.
Now, what if the police were investigated and were found to follow the protocol correctly?
As I understand the police officers in the US get only minimal training compared to other 1st world countries, and what training they get for approaching these situations is very different. There was a thread about Scottish police teaching US cops how to avoid gun use which covers some aspects of the situation.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1178612
The thing is if you want the police to act differently train them accordingly and adopt non-leathal policies. Resorting to personal responsibility can't overcome the underlying problem.
M0nochromatic
Member
You should look up and research the Blue Wall of Silence. Also, become familiar with America's police history, especially during civil rights movements.
Unfortunatly, this problem has persisted within the American justice system since its conception. There needs to be reform in America's police because they have zero accountability for the crimes they comit as it is.
Nothing yet. Cops are trying to get their stories straight.
Also why is it dangerous to assume (read hope) that people of the same profession should hold each other to a standard? Why is it bad that someone of the same position of the authority check each other out?
That sounds like it be a good thing, no? Wouldn't it lead to a better organization?
Buttermilk
Member
I will take a look at it. I'm usually pretty busy so I don't know much about what is going on it the news. I do know about America's police history and there are a lot of bad cops out there.
There should be some type of law that people in positions of authority who commit crimes are subject to much harsher penalties than normal. Maybe that would help with some of the crap like this that seems to happen way to often. Of course many of them don't even get prosecuted so that might not help much.
All that said you still have to treat individuals as individuals. Some cops are to aggressive and get into police work for the wrong reasons but there are a lot of good ones trying to do what's right.
Could you respond to my comment about why it's dangerous?
Buttermilk
Member
A corrupt organization is still not inherently evil. With an evil organization people know what there getting into. Hopefully the majority of police officers are getting into that kind of work for the right reasons. I know some of you have your doubts.
Buttermilk
Member
I think were talking about two different things. Everything you said sound like it should be done in every organization. What I think is dangerous is when people on the outside stop looking at the group as individuals. They are a group so you have to look at the whole group and its actions but you cant forget that they are individuals as well.
What I commented on in the first place was someone saying because of things like this he doesn't have sympathy "when bad things happen to cops". I think that's a dangerous way of thinking. Just as we feel horrible and want things corrected in situations like this we should also feel the same when something happens to an individual working as a police officer.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Any news on the folks that lost their lives? Or are we gonna keep worrying about hypothetical injuries to an officer that some GAFfer said he won't sympathise with? I know one matters more..
GrizzleBoy
Banned
You guys need to stop bashing cops.
We can't judge the institution based on completely sanctioned actions that some individuals take.
Its like saying ALL of the KKK are bad just because SOME members murdered people.
Many KKK members are just community organisers and do good things for their communities. Just because their comrades murder people on a daily basis, with their full support, doesn't mean they too are part of the problem!
It's not the uniform/hood, it's the person underneath it that's at fault.
You wouldn't call a WHOLE gang bad just because ONE of them is a murderer and they all cover for him and support him 100% under any circumstance when he kills.people??? Blame the killer, not the structure that funds, sanctions, covers for and 100% supports him in every way!
It's DANGEROUS for us to focus on the institution when only individuals are on the street!
We can't judge the institution based on completely sanctioned actions that some individuals take.
Its like saying ALL of the KKK are bad just because SOME members murdered people.
Many KKK members are just community organisers and do good things for their communities. Just because their comrades murder people on a daily basis, with their full support, doesn't mean they too are part of the problem!
It's not the uniform/hood, it's the person underneath it that's at fault.
You wouldn't call a WHOLE gang bad just because ONE of them is a murderer and they all cover for him and support him 100% under any circumstance when he kills.people??? Blame the killer, not the structure that funds, sanctions, covers for and 100% supports him in every way!
It's DANGEROUS for us to focus on the institution when only individuals are on the street!
Gordon Shumway
Banned
DouglasteR
Member
Even from my third world country this is some unbelievable fourth world country bullshit.
That would be true if the institution took accountability to get those individuals off the street. It puts them out there then tries to protect them through hidden/falsified information and victim character assassination.
Mixolydian
Member
He knows. It wasn't a serious post in the way you think it was.
Cabbagehead
Member
Nice
Where did I put my Simpsons gifs.
FortuneFaded
Member
I'm just going to leave it at this. Individuals are not relevant to this discussion as a whole. It doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter if Officer Joe rescued at cat from a tree and gave out food at a homeless shelter. It matters when Officer Joe is filling a false statement for Officer Pete when Officer Pete shoots someone lying handcuff face down on the ground. It matters when Officer Joe isn't speaking up or stopping Officer Pete when he body slams and paralyzes a dude. It matters when Officer Joe doesn't stop Officer Pete from choking someone to death.
This whole see individuals thing is insignificant. Because if we looks at the individuals we see that (across the board) they don't care enough or are afraid to do anything (read: do anything positive) to benefit the quality of their profession. No one speaks up against others, they either keep quiet, offer non-committal platitudes, or defend the Officer Petes.
As for the other thing, that's on them. If their feeling that way, it probably didn't come from nowhere. The onus to make a better relationship isn't on poster who said that.
kame-sennin
Member
People choose to be in the Klu Kulx Klan for a million different reasons. You cant start to group them all together. I was just trying to get that point across. It's very dangerous to put people or their organizations into groups. I don't think it's a huge stretch to compare the two.
Buttermilk
Member
I knew someone would post something like that. I already stated the difference. On is inherently evil and you know that when you get into that group. They should be punished as a group. The other is trying to serve and protect(That's why some want to join that profession).
Now maybe the second group is not doing a good job at what they are supposed to be doing. That should be fixed. I'm just not sure how you condemn every individual in that second group.
I got to go. Sorry for derailing the thread. Hopefully these people will find justice.
Mixolydian
Member
Look what you did Grizzle.
Ploid 3.0
Member
Mqy have been mentioned before, but this have already been registered.
https://youtu.be/_cCQU0jt4cs 5:00 mark.
Dictator93
Member
The supposed ingrained rules, ideas, and slogan of an institution may not necessarily coincide with its actions and actual ideologies.
I think there are countless historical examples from US and other histories detailing this fact.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Priorities and all that..
FTFY
Principate
Saint Titanfall
The second organisation has freely murdered hundreds to thousands of it's citizen's based on racial reasons with minimal blowback and self reflection over it's history.
I know this maybe shocking to you but the corrupt police is much more dangerous and damaging to black communities than the KKK ever was. In fact it's been well documented that the KKK infiltrated law enforcement and have for a long time. That's why people treat th corrupt police with the disdain they do. If you can't even trust the people in society who are supposed to protect you, your existence in society is fundamentally pretty fucked.
A.D. Skinner
Member
Absolutely mad, how does that even happen?!
thelastcrusader
Banned
I'd like to know what is happening to the 7 children involved. Who is going to raise them and is there some kind of fundraiser happening for them?
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Well, the deceased woman had a twin sister. I'd imagine they're close. Although, seeing your dead mother's face everyday..geezuz.
The four girls? Your guess is as good as mine. What a fucking tragic mess..
Do they even try to train them anymore?
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Except the KKK's entire reason for existence is to wipe out minorities and deviants.
These analogies are such bullshit.
(Watch as the next few posts accuse me of defending murder)
kame-sennin
Member
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
*cough*
1858. Your point being?
No shit there are still racist cops in 2016, especially in racist states.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Why are you defending murder? 😕
Principate
Saint Titanfall
How do you think the organisation changed over the years. The racist heads of the department gave their jobs in high probabilty to over racist people. and continued to present daywith some dilution due to time and size. Same reason why systemic racists persists through generations.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Fuck being black.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
It's not the fact that there's racist cops, all countries have racist cops. It's when the establishment defends racist cops and does everything in it's power repeatedly to ensure they get off, is what tells you the organisation is fundamentally racist, and have no problem with what these racist cops are doing.
Which is a significant problem
Gordon Shumway
Banned
We should be green. People like green..right?
Angelus Errare
Banned
You should look up the formation of US's police force in America. It'll blow your mind.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
You were supposed to accuse him of defending murder..
Really sickening, regardless of the excuses made this is just sickening. It might be because I haven't been jaded by years on the street and driven to frightful levels of paranoia but this situation could have been handled easily by someone walking up to the window and knocking on it, its that simple.
Even if they went for the gun you could easily duck below the door frame and tactical shift to the back of the car in less then 3 seconds. Seriously if you have all these guns then surely you have been trained properly to use them in varying situations or are american cops just given ex-military gear without proper training?
Even if they went for the gun you could easily duck below the door frame and tactical shift to the back of the car in less then 3 seconds. Seriously if you have all these guns then surely you have been trained properly to use them in varying situations or are american cops just given ex-military gear without proper training?
Cindi Mayweather
Member
American police were originally created to capture runaway slaves as slave catching patrols. Racism is endemic in the American police system.
http://plsonline.eku.edu/insidelook/brief-history-slavery-and-origins-american-policing
It isn't easy being green, though.
Problem is that cops in large municipalities today are less about making the community safe, more about
1)Revenue generation for the municipalities they serve
2)Keeping crime stats at a certain level for the powers at be either through legit (active policing) or fuzzy (helping to under-report crimes) means
3)Keeping what's seen as the 'prime' voters happy in whatever municipalities they serve because that's who makes/breaks the administrations who are their bosses.
Dead bodies on both sides aside, this renewed interest in policing, good and bad, will ultimately hell the public AND good cops who generally want to dona good job but find themselves hampered by a culture of corruption and an indifferent administration intent on keeping the status quo because it keeps them in office. Instead its "ohnoes! our jobs!"
Somehow being a police officer to maintain the public good and de-escalating situations turned
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