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[Zedox]

It's not feasible at all. The cost, and the fragmentation that this will cause is not worth it at all. And since games have to be forward and backward compatible, it's going to be a nightmare for developers. Also it introduced artificial limitations on what they could do with the new hardware since games have to be designed to work on the old hardware(similar to crossgen games).

Please tell me what limitations are put on new PCs that made old software run on that PC? The software platform is what you program for, you scale based off of hardware. The hardware will always be able to support the software (is the promise and I can believe them with legacy Windows apps still running) but software can change and will adapt to hardware (reasons why we have new OS versions) without losing BC.

I dont think we will see an updated SKU this year. They should wait for AMD's Polaris and Zen. Not sure if Zen will be ready by Q4 let alone mass production. That would make this a better upgrade than whatever they would release this year.

Or they could release what's already baked (and gone through its issues) to keep costs viable and release now. Can get to the newer stuff in the next go around. Yes, it won't be in perfect lockstep with PC (and I didn't think it ever would be) but it would be close enough and can still take advantages of those newer systems. I definitely see a new SKU (in my mind...I'm gonna keep repeating that so people don't think I'm saying it as fact) this year.

 

[Elios83]

I dont think we will see an updated SKU this year. They should wait for AMD's Polaris and Zen. Not sure if Zen will be ready by Q4 let alone mass production. That would make this a better upgrade than whatever they would release this year.

I doubt they would be testing waters and public reception so soon if they weren't planning to introduce something by the end of this year. They would have stayed shut.

 

[Hawk269]

I still say that if Microsoft can tell a customer if you buy *this* version of Xbox One, you'll have 6 years of support for that version at launch (meaning developers use that as a baseline and scale up from there), I think it's a good deal. No one can really be mad at 6 year console life. Release a new one every two years. I see that is a viable strategy that can work out as 6 years is a good amount of time for a lifecycle that people are used to. I don't see how that can't work.


Oh and just FYI, I think that plan is going to start this E3. A new Xbox One that's going to be more powerful will be announced. Also, I believe that we'll have a new hardware design (thanks to the Surface team lead by Panos Panay). So we'll have two new Xbox Ones this year, 1 more powerful and another that's the same, but both with a new design language that's akin to the Surface hardware design. Obviously, this is all my speculation...but I have been hearing that there will be new hardware this year.

I agree with you. I just do see why Phil has started talking about this and then have nothing to show for it in the near future. I think we will see this at E3. The will take the time to explain it in some detail at E3. I think the redesign with lower cost will also be shown as you are predicting as well.

The big question is how much better will the Pro Xbox One be over the standard? I would think that they would want to make it a pretty good jump. If a redesigned smaller original Xbox One is shown, I would think it will sell for $299.99 or maybe a bit lower.

Personally, if a Xbox One Pro is to be released, it needs to be cutting edge and be a substantial improvement over the original console. If it just marginal, then why even have it and I think that is what the thought process is.

 

[Complicated]

I doubt they would be testing waters and public reception so soon if they weren't planning to introduce something by the end of this year. They would have stayed shut.

I think they could have started talking this early for a Spring next year release.

 

[GameAddict411]

Please tell me what limitations are put on new PCs that made old software run on that PC? The software platform is what you program for, you scale based off of hardware. The hardware will always be able to support the software (is the promise and I can believe them with legacy Windows apps still running) but software can change and will adapt to hardware (reasons why we have new OS versions) without losing BC.



Or they could release what's already baked (and gone through its issues) to keep costs viable and release now. Can get to the newer stuff in the next go around. Yes, it won't be in perfect lockstep with PC (and I didn't think it ever would be) but it would be close enough and can still take advantages of those newer systems. I definitely see a new SKU (in my mind...I'm gonna keep repeating that so people don't think I'm saying it as fact) this year.

The limitations are on the software. You have to realise that games are designed around the limitation of the slowest hardware that it's going to run on, and yes, that affects PC gaming as well. While you can benefit a lot from having higher resolution and frame rates, the average person doesn't care and will be happy with whatever he or she have got. And most importantly, It's just not enough to push people to pay another $400-$500 every 2 or 3 years. The argument being backward compatible and forward compatible won't shift units at all because people won't upgrade if they can play the same games on their old systems. And whoever thinks it's viable has no idea what they are talking about. It's simple as that.

 

[Bsigg12]

I think they could have started talking this early for a Spring next year release.

E3 should be fun. I fully expect them to announce the first revision this June (which is in 3(!) Months) at their media briefing.

The limitations are on the software. You have to realise that games are designed around the limitation of the slowest hardware that it's going to run on, and yes, that affects PC gaming as well. While you can benefit a lot from having higher resolution and frame rates, the average person doesn't care and will be happy with whatever he or she have got. And most importantly, It's just not enough to push people to pay another $400-$500 every 2 or 3 years. The argument being backward and forward compatible won't shift units at all because people won't upgrade if they can play the same games on their old systems. And whoever thinks it's viable has no idea what they are talking about. It's simple as that.

That is the beauty of the UWP. The idea is to smartly be able to scale to the available hardware. There would be no point in upgrading yearly let alone every 2-3 years unless you absolutely want the newest hardware as it is released.

Microsoft makes money on software and MAUs, hardware is just a tool to deliver that content. They are broadening what that possible hardware can be which is smart. Going forward new revisions will forever be able to play anything previously released and than after a "generational leap" they could phase out whatever units don't meet a minimum spec to run games at an acceptable quality on new games.

 

[GameAddict411]

E3 should be fun. I fully expect them to announce the first revision this June (which is in 3(!) Months) at their media briefing.

The revision will be a slim version of some kind if it exists. If there is a new hardware, there would be leaks by now if they are announcing it in June.

 

[etta]

I agree with you. I just do see why Phil has started talking about this and then have nothing to show for it in the near future. I think we will see this at E3. The will take the time to explain it in some detail at E3. I think the redesign with lower cost will also be shown as you are predicting as well.

The big question is how much better will the Pro Xbox One be over the standard? I would think that they would want to make it a pretty good jump. If a redesigned smaller original Xbox One is shown, I would think it will sell for $299.99 or maybe a bit lower.

Personally, if a Xbox One Pro is to be released, it needs to be cutting edge and be a substantial improvement over the original console. If it just marginal, then why even have it and I think that is what the thought process is.

Shieeet, I'm getting so giddy about this.
E3 2016 shall be schwifty.

As for power, it's gotta be stronger than the PS4 that's for sure. They can't ask for a much higher price, but this time there's no Kinect so they can use that ~$150 for GPU/RAM.

 

[wapplew]

Please tell me what limitations are put on new PCs that made old software run on that PC? The software platform is what you program for, you scale based off of hardware. The hardware will always be able to support the software (is the promise and I can believe them with legacy Windows apps still running) but software can change and will adapt to hardware (reasons why we have new OS versions) without losing BC.

Here's one possible scenario, FF14 loading screen, a game design to work on the old hardware.
If FF14 only target the best hardware, it could've got rid of loading screen become a seamless open world.

Also on PC, how many game truly design with top hardware in mind?
You get ultra setting then what? All that extra horse power just for higher res and higher fps.

 

[mjp2417]

This strategy - at least conceptually (obviously Microsoft might fuck this up) - ultimately seems like a meaningful tangible benefit to the enthusiast. "Forward compatibility," or whatever goofy marketing term MS chooses to market this with, is a big fucking deal to someone for whom video games are valuable, living historical artifacts. It brings games that have been restricted to console generations in line with PC values of sustaining a permanent, playable, ever-evolving archive. Obviously I have no idea how all this will play out with the mass market, but then again I'm probably not the mass market nor do I have any particular interest in ventriloquizing them. So Microsoft, don't fuck this up.

 

[El_Chino]

This, NX, and PSVR E3 going to be crazy. It's like a whole new gen is starting

Time to start guessing XBO+ specs?

 

[Bsigg12]

The revision will be a slim version of some kind if it exists. If there is a new hardware, there would be leaks by now if they are announcing it in June.

There would be no point in mentioning it if there wasn't planned to be talked about in the next 3 months. They very easily could have held the entire event without mentioning this entire thing if there wasn't something in the works.

 

[...Scatter...]

Time to start guessing XBO+ specs?

Don't get me excited!

 

[gohepcat]

Well the first thing we should all do is absolutely panic and go completely apeshit.

It's obvious that there's no reason to stop posting hyperbolic statements about any and all possible slight changes to the future of the currently 2nd place console manufacturer.

The most important thing to do is speculate wildly. Think of the most outrageous doomsday scenario and run with it. Overanalyze anything anyone says and extrapolate that out to a comic-book villain style ending

 

[etta]

Maybe they will add a PlayGo-type chip to speed up the installations as well.

 

[El_Chino]

Don't get me excited!

Already made a thread to speculate.

 

[Crayon]

Maybe they will add a PlayGo-type chip to speed up the installations as well.

Maybe there'll be rabbits there, George.

 

[etta]

Maybe there'll be rabbits there, George.

Who this?

 

[Crayon]

Who this?

Lenny. From Of Mice and Men.

 

[Fat4all]

If it's a revision, they should probably call it something other than 'One'. Kinda goes against the whole message the system was trying to convey.

 

[Crayon]

If it's a revision, they should probably call it something other than 'One'. Kinda goes against the whole message the system was trying to convey.

XBox Other One.

XBOO

 

[Bsigg12]

If it's a revision, they should probably call it something other than 'One'. Kinda goes against the whole message the system was trying to convey.

"The Xbox" ala the iPad.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

<sigh> Even in light of the past generations, you still always have people who say "But this time is different" because my beloved CEO says so, no matter how many bullshit he said earlier on, and anyone who thinks otherwise is just a hater who wants to see it fail, hence he or she's not a real gamer in the first place.

FTFY.

The caution around gaming and the Windows Store is well justified and warranted. At the same time, for some who are perhaps more forgiving, it's an exciting, ambitious idea that's kind of fun to speculate on how they could execute it and what it could mean for Xbox fans.

Oh, I'll give it (Windows store) a chance as well. As I said, as a PC gamer I basically like the idea. Because Quantum Break. But the odds that I switch from Steam to Windows store for other new games are abysmal.

 

[Pachinko]

Some of you might recall a thread I made back in November - located here - I just feel in light of this weeks news that my theory is becoming closer to reality.

MS realizes now that they've already lost the battle for the living room , their console (while it's still selling quite well compared to other consoles ) is under preforming AND being beaten nearly 2:1 by the direct competition.

They've had some ideas now ... not new ones mind you but re-purposed ones. Windows 10 gaming is a replacement for games for windows live. It's also just one way to unify all of their platforms - going forward I think every MS published game will see release on both PC and XB1 , developers that want in can release XB1 games and more easily place them on the windows 10 PC store and vice versa.

It's not so much that the current XB1 will be pulled out back and shot but that as soon as sales are down you might start to see new models , models that will be compatible with any universal apps and universal apps that might have low detail modes for XB1 , custom detail on PC and higher detail modes on XB1 2017 edition.

It's a model apple has used to great success with their phones so I don't see why it isn't at least worth a try - perhaps this holiday for 249.99 you'll be able to buy the regular 500 GB XB1 , 349.99 a special 1 TB model and once those are gone that's it for the old brick beast. Then in 2017 they bring out a brand new model available in a SKU for all needs - for 399.99 there's a standard model with a 2 TB hard drive , 299.99 gives you the media model with only a 128 GB SSD and maybe a deluxe digital gamer model for 449.99 with a 512 GB SSD included , all 3 models include a redesigned APU that's 100% faster than the XB1 currently is as well as having access to 16 GB of HBM2 memory. In other words - 30 fps at 4K is possible for games and 4K bluray playback out of the box AND XB1 titles that are universal apps download a simple XB2017 update that gives them full 1080p 60 fps (in cases where they might have been 900p 30 fps). The goal here being that the boxes are all slightly profitable and 10 million in sales over 24 months is acceptable. Then in 2019 they bring out another model that's about twice as fast as the 2017 model , now universal apps are no longer required to support the xb1 (in much the same way that iOS updates eventually won't allow older model phones). The pricing structure and sales goal is roughly the same.

The goal shifts from "beating sony" to "making money". I don't know how successful it will be but if they do try something like this it will probably do better for them than sticking with the XB1 for another 3 holidays. Should the upgraded consoles preform below expectations , they still have PC sales to fall back on.

 

[MogCakes]

This is going to be a very strange generation.

 

[krang]

Do you think this means more frequent incremental revisions going forward, or would it be more like a .5 release sandwiched between genuine generational hardware? I'm hoping the former - I'm also hoping this means forward compatibility of peripherals.

 

[El_Chino]

Some of you might recall a thread I made back in November - located here - I just feel in light of this weeks news that my theory is becoming closer to reality.

MS realizes now that they've already lost the battle for the living room , their console (while it's still selling quite well compared to other consoles ) is under preforming AND being beaten nearly 2:1 by the direct competition.

They've had some ideas now ... not new ones mind you but re-purposed ones. Windows 10 gaming is a replacement for games for windows live. It's also just one way to unify all of their platforms - going forward I think every MS published game will see release on both PC and XB1 , developers that want in can release XB1 games and more easily place them on the windows 10 PC store and vice versa.

It's not so much that the current XB1 will be pulled out back and shot but that as soon as sales are down you might start to see new models , models that will be compatible with any universal apps and universal apps that might have low detail modes for XB1 , custom detail on PC and higher detail modes on XB1 2017 edition.

It's a model apple has used to great success with their phones so I don't see why it isn't at least worth a try - perhaps this holiday for 249.99 you'll be able to buy the regular 500 GB XB1 , 349.99 a special 1 TB model and once those are gone that's it for the old brick beast. Then in 2017 they bring out a brand new model available in a SKU for all needs - for 399.99 there's a standard model with a 2 TB hard drive , 299.99 gives you the media model with only a 128 GB SSD and maybe a deluxe digital gamer model for 449.99 with a 512 GB SSD included , all 3 models include a redesigned APU that's 100% faster than the XB1 currently is as well as having access to 16 GB of HBM2 memory. In other words - 30 fps at 4K is possible for games and 4K bluray playback out of the box AND XB1 titles that are universal apps download a simple XB2017 update that gives them full 1080p 60 fps (in cases where they might have been 900p 30 fps). The goal here being that the boxes are all slightly profitable and 10 million in sales over 24 months is acceptable. Then in 2019 they bring out another model that's about twice as fast as the 2017 model , now universal apps are no longer required to support the xb1 (in much the same way that iOS updates eventually won't allow older model phones). The pricing structure and sales goal is roughly the same.

The goal shifts from "beating sony" to "making money". I don't know how successful it will be but if they do try something like this it will probably do better for them than sticking with the XB1 for another 3 holidays. Should the upgraded consoles preform below expectations , they still have PC sales to fall back on.

I remember this thread, all excellent points!

 

[Crayon]

I remember this thread, all excellent points!

Pachinko makes lots of really good posts.

 

[Bastables]

At this point I don't know if you're even being serious or not. Metro did a lot more than simply reskin icons. When I think of the changes that Metro brought, I don't see a simple reskin, I see a fundamental difference in design principles:

And even if the Zune is dead and WP is pretty much irrelevant in the market right now, they are design principles which I think went on to have a pretty significant effect on the competition

The design principles in the ascendantin phones and tablets do seem to be skewed to Apple's variants. Arguing that Metro was a paradigm shift is factious unless you're making a argument about essentially re skins by the market leaders.

vs skumorphic

What a gulf....

 

[vcc]

A lot of what Phil Spencer said about having a unifying OS instead of having a new OS for each new generation makes total sense and I think Sony and Nintendo will follow MS.

It makes me wonder why it wasn't done before.

I have my 500 GB XBO and I'm looking forward to seeing what new iterations of XBO are down the line. I'm almost certain we'll see a Slim model with more memory at E3.

My main concern is that somewhere down the line with these newer model Xbox One's being released down the line is that MS will start to ditch physical media.

Digital is where the industry is heading to a certain extent. We all see the sales figures and how digital sales are around 30-40% of most major software releases (not 100% sure on that). But I think you'll see digital sales peak and stay at around 45-65% in the next couple of years for a variety of reasons.

1.) People, including me, just like having physical copies of games and that will never change. I grew up buying physical copies of games and I enjoy the whole aspect of just going into a game store and buying a game.

When Napster was starting to hit a lot of people were predicting the death of physical CDs and while physical CD sales have dropped they're still at your local Best Buy. Except The Life of Pablo.

2.) Even with some of my digital games I'm not able to resell them.

3.) Download speeds/ISP in some parts of the USA, let alone the world, are slow as molasses and I think we'll see some sort of resistance from ISP companies to increase those speeds.

All in all though, like I said earlier in the post, what Phil Spencer was saying makes total sense for the console industry going forward.

Sony uses a freeBSD derivative for the Ps3 and ps4.

 

[GHG]

XBox Other One.

XBOO

Xbox another one.

 

[Xbudz]

They'll rebrand it to Xbox.

 

[Rembrandt]

people are going to be disappointed at E3.

 

[LyleLanley]

They'll rebrand it to Xbox.

"Xbox Won"

 

[kungfuian]

I know this isn't the case for everyone but Microsoft is doing a pretty good job talking me out of buying x-box hardware.

If the majority of x-box games end up on PC and now we can upgrade to a new box every few years might as well just skip the lower end hardware, pay the premium, and get the highest quality rig now. A $1500 pc should in theory be superior to the specs of an x-box two or three or whatever they might release in the next few years.

At the end of the day; without fixed hardware or exclusive software the x-box is just a poor mans pc at this point. Plus with the PC we get all the added benefits of being a much more flexible tool, being upgradable, lower software cost, no live fees, services like steam, all the upcoming VR on an open platform, etc, etc...

 

[wapplew]

I know this isn't the case for everyone but Microsoft is doing a pretty good job talking me out of buying x-box hardware.

If the majority of x-box games end up on PC and now we can upgrade to a new box every few years might as well just skip the lower end hardware, pay the premium, and get the highest quality rig now. A $1500 pc should in theory be superior to the specs of an x-box two or three or whatever they might release in the next few years.

At the end of the day; without fixed hardware or exclusive software the x-box is just a poor mans pc at this point. Plus with the PC we get all the added benefits of being e a much more flexible tool, being upgradable, lower software cost, no live fees, services like steam, all the upcoming VR on an open platform, etc, etc...

In before "it doesn't matter as long as you are in their eco-system" or "MS get your money anyway"

 

[Caipirinha]

people are going to be disappointed at E3.

For real, I thought GAF would be more objective than this but they're imagination is getting ahead of them. E3 is going to hit them like a ton of disappointing bricks.

 

[Rembrandt]

In before "it doesn't matter as long as you are in their eco-system" or "MS get your money anyway"

if he wants to play MS games, then yeah. are you in before the obvious?

 

[andrerobot]

They'll rebrand it to Xbox.

With the current company branding current branding it will probably be Xbox One Pro, or Xbox 10.

 

[krang]

I know this isn't the case for everyone but Microsoft is doing a pretty good job talking me out of buying x-box hardware.

If the majority of x-box games end up on PC and now we can upgrade to a new box every few years might as well just skip the lower end hardware, pay the premium, and get the highest quality rig now. A $1500 pc should in theory be superior to the specs of an x-box two or three or whatever they might release in the next few years.

At the end of the day; without fixed hardware or exclusive software the x-box is just a poor mans pc at this point. Plus with the PC we get all the added benefits of being a much more flexible tool, being upgradable, lower software cost, no live fees, services like steam, all the upcoming VR on an open platform, etc, etc...

Conversely, I feel pretty good about having bought an XB1 and having a substantial digital library that can follow me through updated and different hardware going forwards.

 

[inner-G]

The main screen of their contacts app can only fit the names of... 1.5 contacts?

 

[krang]

The main screen of their contacts app can only fit the names of... 1.5 contacts?

The People app is different to the Contacts. People is driven more by social media, hence giving you somewhere to view your latest and edit your status. Contacts is just a list of people.

 

[kungfuian]

Conversely, I feel pretty good about having bought an XB1 and having a substantial digital library that can follow me through updated and different hardware going forwards.

Interesting times indeed.

By the way my decision to move toward pc is not an opinion on whether the traditional x-xbox consoles will be successful (in whatever form they take). In fact I'm sure most people will still game on these less expensive devices. It's also not an opinion on whether these changes will be good or bad for the industry or anything like that.

For me personally though, I have been looking for n excuse to get a high end pc so I can jump in on the VR wave. These moves by Microsoft are win win for me because now I have an extra excuse to get a pc. Somehow out of the kindness of their hearts Microsoft has decided its OK if I skip on the x-box hardware and I still get what is in effect the highest end x-box experience on my pc.

 

[ATOMICJORGE]

While we are in the topic of the names here is my shot

Xbox Infinity

Infinite entertainment, Infinite possibilities

 

[Stillmatic]

Definitely an interesting direction and I hope it works out for them, but I don't think this has much appeal outside of the existing Xbox fan-base. It'll grow their software business but not their hardware. That said, software is where the money is.

 

[hullostranger]

Some of you might recall a thread I made back in November - located here - I just feel in light of this weeks news that my theory is becoming closer to reality.

MS realizes now that they've already lost the battle for the living room , their console (while it's still selling quite well compared to other consoles ) is under preforming AND being beaten nearly 2:1 by the direct competition.

They've had some ideas now ... not new ones mind you but re-purposed ones. Windows 10 gaming is a replacement for games for windows live. It's also just one way to unify all of their platforms - going forward I think every MS published game will see release on both PC and XB1 , developers that want in can release XB1 games and more easily place them on the windows 10 PC store and vice versa.

It's not so much that the current XB1 will be pulled out back and shot but that as soon as sales are down you might start to see new models , models that will be compatible with any universal apps and universal apps that might have low detail modes for XB1 , custom detail on PC and higher detail modes on XB1 2017 edition.

It's a model apple has used to great success with their phones so I don't see why it isn't at least worth a try - perhaps this holiday for 249.99 you'll be able to buy the regular 500 GB XB1 , 349.99 a special 1 TB model and once those are gone that's it for the old brick beast. Then in 2017 they bring out a brand new model available in a SKU for all needs - for 399.99 there's a standard model with a 2 TB hard drive , 299.99 gives you the media model with only a 128 GB SSD and maybe a deluxe digital gamer model for 449.99 with a 512 GB SSD included , all 3 models include a redesigned APU that's 100% faster than the XB1 currently is as well as having access to 16 GB of HBM2 memory. In other words - 30 fps at 4K is possible for games and 4K bluray playback out of the box AND XB1 titles that are universal apps download a simple XB2017 update that gives them full 1080p 60 fps (in cases where they might have been 900p 30 fps). The goal here being that the boxes are all slightly profitable and 10 million in sales over 24 months is acceptable. Then in 2019 they bring out another model that's about twice as fast as the 2017 model , now universal apps are no longer required to support the xb1 (in much the same way that iOS updates eventually won't allow older model phones). The pricing structure and sales goal is roughly the same.

The goal shifts from "beating sony" to "making money". I don't know how successful it will be but if they do try something like this it will probably do better for them than sticking with the XB1 for another 3 holidays. Should the upgraded consoles preform below expectations , they still have PC sales to fall back on.

This kinda makes sense. Greats points overall!

 

[ramparter]

While we are in the topic of the names here is my shot

Xbox Infinity

Infinite entertainment, Infinite possibilities

Looks like a fan heater.

 

[ATOMICJORGE]

Also we have to remember the Xbox 360 came out 4 years after the launch of the Original Xbox, at the end of 2016 the Xbox One will be 3 years old
a new and better version of the One doesn't sound to crazy for a holiday launch

 

[Rembrandt]

Also we have to remember the Xbox 360 came out 4 years after the launch of the Original Xbox, at the end of 2016 the Xbox One will be 3 years old
a new and better version of the One doesn't sound to crazy for a holiday launch

You completely disregarded the XB1 coming out 8 years after the 360s launch. There's no precedent right now.

 

[Ushay]

It's not feasible at all. The cost, and the fragmentation that this will cause is not worth it at all. And since games have to be forward and backward compatible, it's going to be a nightmare for developers. Also it introduced artificial limitations on what they could do with the new hardware since games have to be designed to work on the old hardware(similar to crossgen games).

Forward and backward compat are a hardware issue one that should be rigorously tested before release, the platform will remain closed albeit within 2, maybe 3 configurations .. All on the same architecture. Nightmare for developers? I doubt it.

Limitations is the wrong word to use here, games are built using a baseline hardware spec which has always been the case. Each SKU would basically enable more graphical settings to be further utilised such as resolution, aliasing, fidelity etc you'd think that a generation of console gamers that have banging on the resolution gate drum for so long and hard would be pleased such issues would be irrelevant to those that want that option, instead of being limited to the defined hardware.