MS might stick with AMD for there next "console" but the move to UWP means that they can use any DX12 GPU they want & the same way they have been patching Xbox 360 games to run on Xbox One they could patch the Xbox One games into UWP games if that's not being done in hardware or on the OS end when they integrate the stores.
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Eurogamer: Independently confirms source that the PS4.5 is real, referred as PS 4K
- Thread starter Volotaire
- Start date
MS might stick with AMD for there next "console" but the move to UWP means that they can use any DX12 GPU they want & the same way they have been patching Xbox 360 games to run on Xbox One they could patch the Xbox One games into UWP games if that's not being done in hardware or on the OS end when they integrate the stores.
It depends on what the PS4K actually is and what will be the guidelines for devs by Sony.
The fact that the only thing that PS4K will provide is a resolution bump (with native upscale to 4K for those with 4K TVs) is pure speculation.
If it's just that it will be more like an improved hardware revision (similar to how the PSP Slim had the CPU 333MHz mode unlocked) rather than an upgrade.
But what if the GPU power is considerably higher and it creates a new cross gen like situation among current model and new model?
In that's the case this will be more like a mid gen console and it will have an impact also on what to expect from the future (continous smaller updates and no more generational leaps).
In Microsoft's case for example since they're going the way of upgrades anyway it makes no sense to just match the PS4, they will definetly target something clearly more powerful, but that won't simply amount to a 900p to 1080p difference for current Xbox One owners.
It's just too early to tell, but this is without any doubt a risky move, it could create a LOT of backlash if not handled properly and since they had no reason to push for this unlike Microsoft a wait and see approach would have been better. Worst case they could respond within 6-12 months with something better.
This year they should focus on VR and releasing a current PS4 Slim at 299$, not on upgrading specs.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
The really weird thing about all this is that we've heard nothing from the Xbox side. This makes me suspicious!
When I say reprojection I also mean reconstruction like Rainbow Six Siege and Quantum Break use. Shadow Fall's MP also used a form of temporal reprojection to produce a higher res image.
These leaks are coming from dev sources. All that this means is that Sony is communicating more directly with devs teams.
It's the same system! No wonder MS is promoting cross-platform play now!
It's the NX too. Everyone wins.
Yep, the Supplemental Computing Device that Nintendo is trying to patent.
edit: It could be that we'll see PS4K, a higher-end Xbox and NX with SCD during 2017-2018..
draughn101
Member
Yea that's what I've been saying. If devs are spilling the beans about a potential marginal bump from Sony, where is the chatter about an exponentially more powerful XB1?
pixellated_man
Member
One things for sure; if the ps5 releases in 2018 or 2019, it will be a disappointment in terms of graphical advances over the ps4. A bit like this generation compared to last, but even more meh. Unless if Sony are willing to lose large amounts of money on every ps5 sold like they did with ps3. Very unlikely, considering how their philosophy and financial situation has changed since those days.
I'm all in for a mid gen (4 years ideally) iteration that allows them to add a significant amount of extra power / features for those who want or needs those things. Then Sony can wait for the next big leap in graphics and go all out with a true successor that incorporates as many of the advances that a console msrp allows.
Hockeymac18
Member
What's the general feel about this rumor now that it seems more legitimate? The feeling in this thread seems a bit more positive than the MS threads about an XB1.5 (or whatever it will be) - at least from what I read.
And that's great, if true - people coming around to this idea more? I've been wanting to see this model in console gaming for a long while:
Year 1:
PS4
XB1
Year 3/4:
PS4+ - plays all old PS4 games; original PS4 still supported
XB1+ - plays all old XB1 games; original XB1 still supported
Year 6/8:
PS5 - plays all old PS4+ games, possibly PS4 games too; PS4+ still supported, original PS4 support is phased out
XB2 (whatever) - plays all old XB1+ games, possibly XB1 games too; XB1+ still supported, original XB1 support is phased out
...etc.
Did you miss this giant thread about comments about incremental upgrades from Phil Spencer (head of Xbox) (that created quite a bit of controversy)? http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1192339
If anything, we've actually heard more directly from MS on this topic than Sony (if Phil speaking about it doesn't count as "hearing from MS", I'm not sure what does). I wouldn't consider a rumor about the existence of a PS4+ as Sony speaking out on this, either...so if anything, MS is the only one really publicly discussing this (even if in a very limited/hypothetical way).
That said, it's too early to hear from either on this in any official way (i.e. announcement). They'll either announce at a huge event (E3), or have their own special conferences about it. Either way, it's clear to me that both are either seriously considering this route, or have something tangible in the works (I think the latter based on MS comments and this rumor)
And that's great, if true - people coming around to this idea more? I've been wanting to see this model in console gaming for a long while:
Year 1:
PS4
XB1
Year 3/4:
PS4+ - plays all old PS4 games; original PS4 still supported
XB1+ - plays all old XB1 games; original XB1 still supported
Year 6/8:
PS5 - plays all old PS4+ games, possibly PS4 games too; PS4+ still supported, original PS4 support is phased out
XB2 (whatever) - plays all old XB1+ games, possibly XB1 games too; XB1+ still supported, original XB1 support is phased out
...etc.
Did you miss this giant thread about comments about incremental upgrades from Phil Spencer (head of Xbox) (that created quite a bit of controversy)? http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1192339
If anything, we've actually heard more directly from MS on this topic than Sony (if Phil speaking about it doesn't count as "hearing from MS", I'm not sure what does). I wouldn't consider a rumor about the existence of a PS4+ as Sony speaking out on this, either...so if anything, MS is the only one really publicly discussing this (even if in a very limited/hypothetical way).
That said, it's too early to hear from either on this in any official way (i.e. announcement). They'll either announce at a huge event (E3), or have their own special conferences about it. Either way, it's clear to me that both are either seriously considering this route, or have something tangible in the works (I think the latter based on MS comments and this rumor)
dcx4610
Member
I had always assumed when UHD Blu-Ray was finalized that we would get a PS4k. I think it's simply going to have the new HDMI spec, UHD Blu-Ray drive and possibly a slightly more powerful GPU. It's just for people that want 4k media. I don't see them alienating current owners.
I'm definitely on board. I'm all in for 4k and will want a UHD player.
I'm definitely on board. I'm all in for 4k and will want a UHD player.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
It really does sound ridiculous, but given Sony is dominating this gen and got a massive VR hardware launch this year then the last thing they would want to do is add any sort of revision into the mix too.
If the plan is to come months after MS then I could see that planting a seed of PS4K now could make some question jumping into the new Xbox!
If the plan is to come months after MS then I could see that planting a seed of PS4K now could make some question jumping into the new Xbox!
Um, It could be it's just first party devs and a select few third party studios.
If Xbox One.5 exists, I imagine only first party knows.
draughn101
Member
I'd be pumped if we actually get a sizeable spec bump that allows X1 and X1.5 to continue to coexist. I've been craving a hardware update, but I don't like leaving my 12 years of Xbox Live buddies behind and I know a lot of them won't upgrade. It's the only reason I haven't jumped to PC yet.
That's probably true. If it's an inclusive upgrade, meaning studios will still make the same games for both consoles, then there wouldn't be a need to have every single dev involved at the start. Just trying to keep my dream alive lol.
bitbydeath
Member
MS has no need to push 4K though, that's just extra cost without the benefit of selling TVs.
Yeah, I don't think every dev needs to know right now.
So I don't think there's anything suspicious about not hearing anything from Microsoft's machine.
Movalpolos
Banned
PS2 slim used a bower brick. I could see them easily going that route to make more space. PS4 is already small enough.
One.5 or nextBox should be pretty good!Oh we heard about it we just didn't know it
It's the same system! No wonder MS is promoting cross-platform play now!
It's windows 10 devices
Microsoft already asked devs to use UWP & told them they can still make console games if they want to.
I have a question though: If MS ,Dell,Samsung or whoever made a Multimedia computer/Set Top Box that's small & cheap maybe $199 - $299 that's a Windows 10 device & it played UWP games & Xbox One games better than the Xbox One & you already have a long list of Xbox One games would you buy it?
I mean it's playing the Xbox One games that was 900P @ 30 fps in 1080P @60fps would it even matter to you if it's called a Xbox or not?
I'm curious to see how much more power MS goes for in their refresh. Will they just try to match the PS4 or will it be even more substantial. I could see them going either way with it.
Am I wrong in thinking the system would run cooler if it had an external power brick? That's the only reason I want it out.
draughn101
Member
It would depend on how stable the environment was. If we are talking an identical experience to what we get now, then I'd consider it. If it turns into the android equivalent, where the company takes advantage with bloat ware and forced apps, etc, then no way. I find it hard to believe that you'd get a pure experience from HP or similar companies.
Let's hope not!
wapplew
Member
Still hate it, just stop caring until we know more.
Your model is why I hate the idea, I don't want to play glorified PS4.5 games when I buy PS5. I want PS5 exclusive but your model make it impossible.
foolishoptimist
Member
What's the difference if the extra power is being used? The smaller gen leaps aren't going to be markedly different in what can be achieved. Even with a 7-8 gen leap, lots of releases were cross-gen.
At least now, it shouldn't be such a burden on devs to support such different architectures/power levels. And making a launch title will be less risky. Maybe we'll get less good developers going under.
I would bet that their whole goal with this refresh is not just about topping the PS4 but getting it up to speed for VR. They have already partnered with Rift and if VR takes off they can easily announce next year that both Rift and Vive are natively compatible with the new Xbox.
Not at all. People have said their piece and made their opinions known already.
bitbydeath
Member
I've come to the realization that with this strategy the only reason to buy a console anymore will be because I want Sony or Microsoft to hold my internet and multiplayer hostage for some amount of money per year to game in their garden.
I'll just save that money and whatever cost they have for upgrades and buy a 980Ti instead.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Also if Polaris 10 isn't basically PS4 GPU @14nm & 2X the CUs why is AMD making a DirectX11 GPU in 2016?
Ohhh, good catch.
Also if Polaris 10 isn't basically PS4 GPU @14nm & 2X the CUs why is AMD making a DirectX11 GPU in 2016?
That'd put it around 3,6 TF wouldn't it?
Also if Polaris 10 isn't basically PS4 GPU @14nm & 2X the CUs why is AMD making a DirectX11 GPU in 2016?
NX, obviously.
>-Baron-Spamedi-<
Member
Dunno what people are getting all excited about.
This will be a hardware iteration to enable 4k streaming and UHD Bluray compatibility and that's about it.
I only have 4k TVs in the house now and it's crazy that my Tvs can naturally stream Amazon 4k services over WiFi and handle 4k content but my PS4 can't. That's what this hardware revision will address.
This will be a hardware iteration to enable 4k streaming and UHD Bluray compatibility and that's about it.
I only have 4k TVs in the house now and it's crazy that my Tvs can naturally stream Amazon 4k services over WiFi and handle 4k content but my PS4 can't. That's what this hardware revision will address.
Coolade
Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f1xmoz99tU
Check out The Know and the information they claim to have about the system.
Check out The Know and the information they claim to have about the system.
foolishoptimist
Member
The DRM requirements of a TV vs a Player are different for 4k content.
I'm still hopeful that Jeff Rigby is right, that the OG PS4 can be updated to support 4k media streaming, even if UHD Bluray is not possible.
If it were only a media upgrade why are developers of software being briefed about it?
Same goes for all those who talk about upscaling - most of lot all 4K TVs already upscale from 720/1080 - 4K, so why would you need a console to do it. If it was automated hardware scaling, again why would you need to let devs know about it this far in advance of anything?
I'm in the performance increase camp. Definitely improved to play non-gaming 4K media, but also capable of 4K/30...which presumably would allow for a performance envelope where 1080/60 (and more importantly 1080/90) are both available to developers to scale game performance to if they choose to.
It certainly isn't suddenly going to start playing contemporary games at either 4K or allow them to automatically run better - they'd need to be patched to take out framerate caps etc - but as software can auto-detect the configuration of a PC there's no reason that can't be done on a console.
What if Ninty take the same route ?
Obliterator
Member
Also if Polaris 10 isn't basically PS4 GPU @14nm & 2X the CUs why is AMD making a DirectX11 GPU in 2016?
That......... is a good catch
mikefrails
Banned
E3 is going to be interesting.
Also if Polaris 10 isn't basically PS4 GPU @14nm & 2X the CUs why is AMD making a DirectX11 GPU in 2016?
Could be the Nintendo NX
J_ToSaveTheDay
Member
After a couple of failed PS2s and failed Xbox 360s, I tend to get a bit ancy to "update" my consoles mid-generation now. I updated my PS2 to the slim, PS3 to the slim, my 360 to the slim, etc... all slightly out of paranoia that they would fail out on me eventually, and confidence that the new models were altered in a way that would decrease likelihood.
Again, now, with my PS4 fan whirring louder and louder (even after attempts to dust and clean it out) I'm starting to reach that point in this gen. Don't have to worry about my XB1 since I got the Forza 6 edition late last year, so PS4K or a slim or whatever is going to be welcome. I just sort of hope it comes stock with a 2TB or so hard drive, since that's what I upgraded my current PS4 to. Plenty of space for me, but it is just within 500GB of filling up again.
Again, now, with my PS4 fan whirring louder and louder (even after attempts to dust and clean it out) I'm starting to reach that point in this gen. Don't have to worry about my XB1 since I got the Forza 6 edition late last year, so PS4K or a slim or whatever is going to be welcome. I just sort of hope it comes stock with a 2TB or so hard drive, since that's what I upgraded my current PS4 to. Plenty of space for me, but it is just within 500GB of filling up again.
Obliterator
Member
So Polaris 10 has an 80w power draw, and is priced "competitive", and is a mass market GPU according to AMD. It is also interestingly enough a DX11 GPU in 2016.
I'm pretty damn confident that is a consoles GPU. Maybe its NX or maybe its PS4.5. But that thing ticks all the right boxes to be in a console
I'm pretty damn confident that is a consoles GPU. Maybe its NX or maybe its PS4.5. But that thing ticks all the right boxes to be in a console
>-Baron-Spamedi-<
Member
Yes. That's what this upgrade will fix.
YouTube has been doing 4k content for a while. If they were going to fix it you would think they would have done it by now. Same with Amazon and Netflix really.
They're probably saving it for PS4k.
That plus the hardware update to enable UHD Bluray.
There maybe some minor hardware improvements elsewhere that give a minor performance boost but that's all it'll be.
Sony telling developers about the hardware revision is not exactly proof of anything dramatic. Maybe they're telling developers so they can do their FMV cutscenes in both resolutions from now on?
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