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[cleveridea]

As much as anything, 4K is just gonna be great marketing as the new thing

All products seem to be coming out in 4K - laptops (with screens so small, can you even tell the difference over 1080?), TV's and even a section of 4K blu ray movies.

Sony can end up with the default 4K disc player like PS2 was in its day

 

[ironcreed]

As long as it shares the same catalogue I'm not bothered, don't do any of the "only on PS4.5" bollocks.

It will have to. No way are they going to isolate original PS4 owners this early and after the success it has had. They are not that dumb.

 

[Inside]

This is great news if it for example means that uncharted 4 will play at 30 fps on PS4 and 60 fps on PS4.5 (just an example)

That would be a dream scenario I think as the majority of the gaming community dosent care and are fine with the normal PS4.

But the people who do care about fps etc can by the "pro" or PS4.5 model.

Or if the PS4.5 just will be able to run the games cooler without making so much noise then I would also be happy.

Will buy but not if it only does VR. That dosent interest me

 

[Peltz]

My fear with this PS4/PS4K is that while games will run on both systems they may not care about performance as much on the PS4. They already struggle to get a steady 30 FPS. I expect another Hyrule Warriors situation where the 3DS version runs at 20 FPS and the N3DS at 30.

For some reason, upgrading to N3DSXL was easy for me. I knew what I was getting and was happy about it.

This, on the other hand, feels like it could be super expensive.

 

[darkside31337]

"..it is likely that the current model and the coming one would share the same software catalog.."

Only 'likely'?
That doesn't sound good, isn't it? New 3DS all over again?

... There are a grand total of 5 n3DS exclusive games. And really only 1 of any kind of significance.

 

[Man]

This is the future of consoles. We know both Sony and Microsoft are doing this.
Nintendo will follow suit (as they have hinted at).

The benefits of console-iterations compared to console-generations are:
1. The console sales through-output will increase (thanks to a core group of gamers always buying new $399-499 console iterations every three years).
2. Consoles will stay more current as technology develops, this could likely increase their market size.
3. The player base is a constant stable population, it doesn't get reset to 0. Enormous benefit to expensive gaming projects. More stability for everyone including gamers.
4. One-off benefit of pushing 4K content right-now.
5. Peripherals like PSVR will have separate cycles from that off console iterations!

I'm in day 1

Spoiler

every three years

.

Calling it:
PS4K to cost $499.
PS4 to cost $299.

 

[Kinyou]

So I guess this will be the true PS4.

...until the next version 3 years later

 

[PodcastFips]

PS4K $399
PS4 $299

Would be a good idea I think.

They are not going to make a loss of around 500$ per console.

 

[Horohoro]

Well, we'll see what happens.

This could do extremely well or become an absolute miserable failure. Not much precedent for this.

Plenty, Sega cd addon, 32x, psp hardware upgrades, n64 expansion pak, New 3DS, plenty of ps3 upgrades...

 

[Maxim726X]

So... Playstation 4 U?

They better sell this clearly, lest the suffer the same fate as Nintendo's marketing failures.

 

[Melchettsmoustache]

Having just bought my second ps4 last month because the first one stopped powering up I'm a bit pissed at this.

Having just forked out for Vive Ready 980ti PC I can see this being the reason to just stick with PC going forward.

After all if I'm going to be subjected to iterative improvements I may as well do it with the stronger tech.

 

[HandsomeCharles]

You're comparing a five-iteration old phone to a one-iteration past console. Doesn't that strike you as disingenuous? Last year's phone or tablet is almost certainly good enough for most purposes, ditto the prior console iteration in the presumed new world. People will pick their own upgrade can fence based on their needs and means.

Not at all. I'm comparing time periods, not iterations. The only reason people need to update is because of device redundancy that is "forced" by developers only choosing to focus on the newest hardware.

I mean, look at it like this. I have an iPhone 4 that I bought 4/5 years ago. (And I will be upgrading soon, but that's besides the point). Since that time, developers have been making games and applications that continue to run on my device, but at an increasingly poorer quality with almost every iteration. As I explained prior, the original Spotify app that I installed on my phone 2-3 years ago ran smoothly and was great, yet the one that is currently installed is absolutely awful. At no point in the update notes did it say "Will run like ass on iPhone 4", and now I have no way to downgrade to a previous version.

And that's the way game development will become if consoles start to go on a high higher frequency iteration cycle. Do you really think Sony is going to use their E3 time to showcase how their new games run on their 2 iterations prior hardware? Of course not. They're not going to say "And here's how it looks/runs for those of you who bought the old console". They're only going to push previews on the newest of the new, which is going to lead to misjudged perceptions of final products and disappointed customers who feel short-changed.

Like i said prior, everyone was happy with the way things worked before. You bought a console, it was good for 4+ years, and then a new one came out. No nonsense about having to keep up to date with hardware revisions or anything like that mid-cycle. If you bought a game for that console, it would run the same on all systems regardless of their manufacturing date, and that (to me at least) was one of the most appealing parts of console gaming.

 

[RPGCrazied]

Come on son.

Read the OP.

Oh sorry. I'm not buying this, don't care what it has coming for it. I'll get a PS5 when it comes out for the right price.

 

[Serick]

What incentive does Sony have to mandate a good experience for people on the old PS4? Do you see them telling developers that their games must run at 1080p 30FPS on an OG PS4? Of course not; they don't even do that now. We get games like Just Cause 3 that run like straight up dogshit on the only PS4 that currently exists, so what happens when a game comes out on the new PS4 running like that and we find out it barely pushes 20FPS on an old one? "Oh, sorry guys. Our bad. You can always upgrade to our new console, though."

As soon as the new version comes out, the old one is yesterday's news. We already see this with phones. App runs like shit on older phone? Oh well. Latest OS update breaks your game? Oh well. If Apple gets away with it, Sony and Microsoft will too. There's no good news here for people who aren't willing to buy the new console whenever it's released.

What incentive? They make money off of licensing and PS+, not off of hardware sales. It's the same incentive as telling PSVR developers 60 FPS locked (or better) or GTFO. Sony isn't dumb, they aren't going to shit all over the loyalty they've garnered this generation.

You're assuming that the next version of the PS4 will be cheap and also based on a 28nm GPU or even a single GPU solution. We don't know anything right now, but assuming they do aim for 4k 30fps or even 60 fps then expect it to have hardware capable of such while maintaining TDP, heat, and cost requirements. Think 14nm finfet GPUs possibly in a dual GPU setup.

On the other hand if this is supposed to be marginally more expensive than the PS4 then do not expect 4k 30fps

I am assuming that it's going to be $500 or less. You are correct.

I wouldn't be surprised if the new PS4 just has a 4k upscaler built in and support for UHD Bluray.

Im aware of that, it wont happen on the 4.5 that will be on the PS5, then in a couple of years after that im sure a 5.5 will be released.

PS4 - 900/1080P/30FPS or in some cases 60FPS
PS4.5 - 1080P/60FPS locked. (Releases this fall or early 2017)
PS5 - 4K/30FPS (Releases 2021)
PS5.5 - 4K/60FPS (Releases 2025)

A upgrade every 4 years with the ability to trade in the current console you own doesn't sound bad. They can refurbish the old consoles that get traded in and sell the new version of the previous console at a lower price aswell.

I was agreeing with you and just building upon your argument Sorry if it didn't come across that way.

 

[Sanpei]

Welcome to the world of 15fps games with current SKU...

 

[Aztechnology]

HOLY SHIT the fear mongering in this thread over Sony not supporting the PS4 fully anymore is baffling. Any PC user in here knows this simply isn't he case nor the goal of an incremental console upgrade. It's mind blowing people in here still have no understanding of the new generation of consoles and why they went X86. I said I before and I'll say it again. Every game release will just have a different graphic preset for PS4 vs 4.5. You can bet your ass Sony will still fully support the PS4 and there will be no noticeable drop in optimizations for PS4 vs 4.5. It's a piece of cake for them to do both.

 

[wapplew]

This is the future of consoles. We know both Sony and Microsoft are doing this.
Nintendo will follow suit (as they have hinted at).

The benefits of console-iterations compared to console-generations are:
1. The console sales through-output will increase (thanks to a core group of gamers always buying new $399-499 console iterations every three years).
2. Consoles will stay more current as technology develops, this could likely increase their market size.
3. The player base is a constant stable population, it doesn't get reset to 0. Enormous benefit to expensive gaming projects. More stability for everyone including gamers.
4. One-off benefit of pushing 4K content right-now.
5. Peripherals like PSVR will have separate cycles from that off console iterations!

I'm in day 1

Spoiler

every three years

.

All of these can be achieve by a backward compatible PS5 in 2-3 years, why risk the backlash?

 

[GlamFM]

This will inevitably prolong the console gen by 2 years, instead of ps5 in 2018-2019, it will come out in 2021 because the more powerful SKU will become the default over time. Really hate this.

Don´t think so.

 

[jdmonmou]

If both consoles run the same software library and accessories how is that "splitting" anything?

Games will run better on PS4K. Eventually you could have some games that will be virtually unplayable on the original PS4 because it was targeted for PS4K.

They have to keep up with an increasingly attractive and cheapening PC market. Especially with Microsoft's plans to move PC and Xbox One closer together. It's not a decision Sony probably wanted to make. It's out of necessity. Losing users means losing the subscription revenue and software sales and that's a way bigger deal than losing out on some hardware profits.

I'm talking long game here. Sony is clearly dominating right now and they want to keep those users as long as possible. You would be surprised in a few years how fast a flip could happen again if they don't keep up.

Sony doesn't need to compete with the PC market yet. The market between console and PC gaming is still different since a high-end PC still can cost thousands of dollars rather than a few hundred dollars. Gaming on a PC is still a foreign concept to many people who game on consoles.

The problem is that over the years the ASP for PS3 declined, so Sony made less and less money on each unit sold. They reduced cost by re-engineering the motherboard, but those improvements were eaten up by the required price cuts to keeps selling increasingly outdated hardware to lower segments. In the latter part of the cycle they essentially left money on the table for people who'd be willing to shell out some cash for a new up to date product.

I know tablets are a bad metaphor, but imagine that you could have bought iPad 1 at launch in 2011 for $499. No new versions would be made until 2017, but you could buy increasingly cheap iPad 1s over the years. In facft, today, you could get one for $199. Masses would buy it in great numbers, and the installed base would be insane. But that's all you could buy. The people wanting the latest wouldn't re-buy it. They'd use their money for something else. That's the money Sony is trying to capture with a PS4, people who can spend $399 every 3-4 years, rather than every 7-8 years.

My guess is that there are not alot of console gamers that are willing to spend $400 every 3-4 years especially when their existing consoles can play all the software that will be on the upgraded console (albeit not as smoothly). I also think Sony will have to sell this thing for more than $400 if they are really trying to do 4K gaming. They learned their lesson from the PS3 and will no longer sell hardware at a loss, but that means the market for this new console will be extremely niche. If sales are small, developers won't really support it. So, I just don't see how this is a good move for Sony. They should be putting their resources into making the PS4 (which is selling really well right now) the best console it can be.

 

[Daft Punk]

Oh sorry. I'm not buying this, don't care what it has coming for it. I'll get a PS5 when it comes out for the right price.

lol How do you ask a question and then still end up sounding salty? smh

 

[DomsPlaying]

Interesting decision and I want to see where it goes from here.

Sure it risks segmenting the player base of course, but ultimately I think it can be a positive opportunity as long as Sony offers some sort of upgrade path for existing users. They have to balance supporting current players while also catering to ones that want the newest and most powerful version.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

Hmmm. Prob gonna cancel my PSVR preorder to see where this pans out. I guess consoles are going the iPad model route. I really don't have a problem with that but if I'm gonna upgrade every 2 years I might as well stick with PC.

Every 2 years? That's never going to happen. The only way this can work it's one Pro/S model 5-6 years. If you thinking consoles are going the phones route with yearly or in your case every 2 years it's impossible to sustain that.

 

[Curufinwe]

All of these can be achieve by a backward compatible PS5 in 2-3 years, why risk the backlash?

They likely don't think the tech required for a generational leap will be mature enough in 2 years.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Look, I know the WSJ sources are shit, but I'm just saying...this rumor's been going on for a couple weeks now, and no official comment from Sony on it?

Doesn't that somewhat implicate that the rumor, or some parts of it anyway, are true?

 

[The Last One]

HOLY SHIT the fear mongering in this thread over Sony not supporting the PS4 fully anymore is baffling. Any PC user in here knows this simply isn't he case nor the goal of an incremental console increase. It's mind blowing people in here still have no understanding of the new generation of consoles and why they went X86. I said I before and I'll say it again. Every game release will just have a different graphic preset for PS4 vs 4.5. You can bet your ass Sony will still fully support the PS4 and there will be no noticeable drop in optimizations for PS4 vs 4.5. It's a piece of cake for them to do both.

People using the cross generation games as examples are really out of their minds. That's a different situation because it envolves two completely different architecture, which wouldn't be the case with the PS4 and PS4K.

 

[Abinash117]

It seems to me it is for VR. It is crazy to think that PS is going to run 4k on games like Uncharted 4. You need a extremely strong PC to get a decent frame rate, and putting it in a console form seems crazy still without a massive revision might since several components would need to be modified potentially like the CPU and RAM, might as well call it a PS5. Maybe upscale some games to 4k.

I also don't see it making games run on a higher frame rate, I see it running games on a more stable frame rate. Console games are locked at their frame rate and I doubt there is some switch.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Look, I know the WSJ sources are shit, but I'm just saying...this rumor's been going on for a couple weeks now, and no official comment from Sony on it?

Doesn't that somewhat implicate that the rumor, or some parts of it anyway, are true?

They're possibly anxiously waiting for June to come. Silence is golden, especially when it can kill sales of the current PS4.

 

[texhnolyze]

People expecting a Ps4 rendering at 4k at 399 will be disappointed.

This is not like a small clock speed, ram and core bump that Nintendo did with the N3DS.

Indeed.

Not only 4K, most people seem to (still) think that switching from the current gen medium-high 1080p/30fps to high-ultra 1080p/60fps would be easy and achievable with a $400 machine somehow.

/shrug

... There are a grand total of 5 n3DS exclusive games. And really only 1 of any kind of significance.

Yeah, that's just an example. This one may be have more exclusive games from the sound of it.

 

[Aztechnology]

Sony doesn't need to compete with the PC market yet. The market between console and PC gaming is still different since a high-end PC still can cost thousands of dollars rather than a few hundred dollars. Gaming on a PC is still a foreign concept to many people who game on consoles.

It must be a foreign concept to you as well then. A PC capable of running at the same settings and higher framerate as a PS4 can be had for $400-500. That includes all of the obvious advantages of having a PC in addition to a gaming device.

 

[Quonny]

Im aware of that, it wont happen on the 4.5 that will be on the PS5, then in a couple of years after that im sure a 5.5 will be released.

PS4 - 900/1080P/30FPS or in some cases 60FPS
PS4.5 - 1080P/60FPS locked. (Releases this fall or early 2017)
PS5 - 4K/30FPS (Releases 2021)
PS5.5 - 4K/60FPS (Releases 2025)

A upgrade every 4 years with the ability to trade in the current console you own doesn't sound bad. They can refurbish the old consoles that get traded in and sell the new version of the previous console at a lower price aswell.

I'm okay with this as long as there's a trade-in system. My gut reaction was fuck this, but after having a couple days to reflect it's not that bad.

 

[Strangelove77]

Welcome to the world of 15fps games with current SKU...

Hey don't be so hyperbolic...it'll fluctuate between 15-20 fps.

 

[Boke1879]

Every gaming website, podcast and forum has covered this and now it's leaking out to mainstream media like the WSJ. Sure, most don't know now, but every day it will keep spreading.

There are people out there who still think the Xbox One has DRM. Your average consumer probably has very little idea about this.

 

[Interfectum]

People using the cross generation games as examples are really out of their minds. That's a different situation because it envolves two completely different architecture, which wouldn't be the case with the PS4 and PS4K.

No the best are people threatening to jump to PC. Reminds me of Americans threatening to move to Canada if Obamacare got passed.

 

[MisterCTwo]

 

[blastprocessor]

It can work folks. Looks at the apple ecosystem. Evolve or you know what.

 

[KZObsessed]

They are not going to make a loss of around 500$ per console.

You're right, they're not.

 

[HMD]

Is the PS4K why Sony's first party studios has been awfully quite since launch?

 

[Crimson_Gold]

It appears that things are going more to a phone like model. Things will be ecosystem based. Models will get a certain number of years of support and then dropped. 5-6 years seems fair. People complaining about cross-gen aren't wrong. It just appears that the way things will work will benefit developers in allowing for larger consumer bases to purchases their titles. This reduces risk.The PS5 won't be hampered by the PS4, but will play all PS4 games. The PS4K will be supported while the PS5 exists, but the PS5 will get games that are exclusive to it. What happened to choice is good?

 

[Loudninja]

Is the PS4K why Sony's first party studios has been awfully quite since launch?

They have no been quiet at all.

 

[Kyne]

and so the same-console wars begin.

 

[Sheriff_Battlesnake]

Existing PlayStation 4 owners would need to buy the new model to take full advantage of the enhanced graphics and power, though it is likely that the current model and the coming one would share the same software catalog, one of the people said.

Here's the deal, Sony. I require some kind of trade in benefit. I send you my PS4 and $150 with it and you send me an enhanced PS4. You can repurpose the parts of my old unit to lower the cost of or at least cushion it so you can push the experience even further. Please for the love of god provide an avenue to trade up.

 

[Man]

All of these can be achieve by a backward compatible PS5 in 2-3 years, why risk the backlash?

No. That would mean PS5 only projects would start to appear. You would buy the PS4 and PS5 cross-generation games as individual products.
PS4 and PS4K will 100% share the same library forwards and backwards.

 

[ironcreed]

 

[Horohoro]

Look, I know the WSJ sources are shit, but I'm just saying...this rumor's been going on for a couple weeks now, and no official comment from Sony on it?

Doesn't that somewhat implicate that the rumor, or some parts of it anyway, are true?

Not at all prime talk to make more ppl watch them at E3 in a few months

 

[Enter the Dragon Punch]

It would be able to handle ultra-high-definition resolution graphics.*

*via upscaling and very simple titles

not that that's a bad thing

 

[Cheebo]

Look, I know the WSJ sources are shit, but I'm just saying...this rumor's been going on for a couple weeks now, and no official comment from Sony on it?

Doesn't that somewhat implicate that the rumor, or some parts of it anyway, are true?

What in the world? WSJ sources are shit? WSJ doesn't disclose their sources, ever. Their sources are impeccable for their tech reporting.

 

[Breakage]

It's hard to see how future PS4 games won't incorporate PS4 4K only features to compel existing PS4 owners into upgrading.
Point being current PS4 owners have a machine that will no longer last the entire gen. Or have I got it wrong?

 

[Quonny]

and so the same-console wars begin.]

oh god

no

 

[Stike]

It can work folks. Looks at the apple ecosystem. Evolve or you know what.

When has it ever worked out for a non-Apple company aping the Apple ecosystem?
Microsoft is doing all that right now and fails miserably (Windows 10, Windows Phone..)

 

[Sub_Level]

A price drop was gonna happen this year anyway, but it seems about a million percent likely now.