Support NeoGAF

[Marty Chinn]

Those are built in with PC builds in mind. It's all math and a matter of percentages. They don't have to develop new shaders for more powerful hardware.

I knew you were going to mention the PC version up, but there are a couple factors. First bringing it over from the PC to the PS4 isn't instant and free. Second, the PC version isn't always developed by the same development team as the console development team. Third, once you port it, then you have to optimize it for the PS4. All of this takes time and money. Man do you guys think bring a Xbox One to PS4 or vice versa is simply hitting compile? Or heck even bringing the PC version over to the PS4 is simply hitting compile? No, there's work involved. That's not to say work is extremely hard or extremely time consuming, but that doesn't change the fact that it's not free of time and money.

 

[Beerman462]

Coming out with a new PS4 imo is preposterous and idiotic at this point when so many people and even developers are seemingly happy with their PS4's and the power it offers. As I said before, I think the new PS4K is primarily for VR support who his still silly to me, but if Sony really does follow through with a new PS4 is just over 2 years after the original, they will lose the respect of ALOT of long term customers I think. How will they even run 4K games that looks like current generation games for $400 when even the most high end PC's struggle with 4K at times with a fluid framerate? The PS4 is selling great. Why pull a tactic like this now when PS4 is selling as well as it is? Why would they gamble so much on something unproven like virtual reality? The adoption rate for 4K is still relatively low isn't it? Makes absolutely no sense to me. Save 4K for the PS5.

First of all they are not replacing the PS4. They are offering an enhanced version.
Second of all the PS4 you currently own will be unaffected by a new PS4K.
Third of all how do you know developers are happy with the PS4?

 

[Beerman462]

I knew you were going to mention the PC version up, but there are a couple factors. First bringing it over from the PC to the PS4 isn't instant and free. Second, the PC version isn't always developed by the same development team as the console development team. Third, once you port it, then you have to optimize it for the PS4. All of this takes time and money. Man do you guys think bring a Xbox One to PS4 or vice versa is simply hitting compile? Or heck even bringing the PC version over to the PS4 is simply hitting compile? No, there's work involved. That's not to say work is extremely hard or extremely time consuming, but that doesn't change the fact that it's not free of time and money.

This isn't a case of bringing a game from PC to PS4 it's a case of bringing a game from a PS4 7850 to a PS4 7970. It will be in the same development environment. If at this point you know a game runs at 1080/30 on a 7850 you extrapolate how it will perform on a 7970 with great precision on the same API.

 

[reKon]

I haven't gotten a chance to read a lot of this thread due to busy season at work. How many "SE shot itself in the foot" type of posts have we gotten so far?

 

[jeffram]

Coming out with a new PS4 imo is preposterous and idiotic at this point when so many people and even developers are seemingly happy with their PS4's and the power it offers. As I said before, I think the new PS4K is primarily for VR support who his still silly to me, but if Sony really does follow through with a new PS4 is just over 2 years after the original, they will lose the respect of ALOT of long term customers I think. How will they even run 4K games that looks like current generation games for $400 when even the most high end PC's struggle with 4K at times with a fluid framerate? The PS4 is selling great. Why pull a tactic like this now when PS4 is selling as well as it is? Why would they gamble so much on something unproven like virtual reality? The adoption rate for 4K is still relatively low, isn't it? Makes absolutely no sense to me. Save 4K for the PS5. For their sake, I really do not hope not have any exclusive console games for the PS4K or imo that could be extremely detrimental to their reputation. We'll see what happens, but usually when gaming rumored constantly resurface materialize over and over again, they are legitimate.

Sure, things are going well right now, but getting too comfortable is what leads to complacency. They are trying to innovate and take advantage of a significant technological breakthrough to make a better performing machine. What if a competitor comes in the market and is 2.5x more powerful than the ps4 in the same price range? The technology to do that will be available this year. Things won't be going so well then will they?

 

[Marty Chinn]

This isn't a case of bringing a game from PC to PS4 it's a case of bringing a game from a PS4 7850 to a PS4 7970. It will be in the same development environment. If at this point you know a game runs at 1080/30 on a 7850 you extrapolate how it will perform on a 7970 with great precision on the same API.

Holy crap, you have no idea what you're talking about and you're jumping around. First you say well just bring over the PC shaders, effects, and additional enhancements, but now you're saying you're not bringing it from the PC to the PS4. Make up your mind. Either you are using the PC scripts, code, assets and effects to enhance the PS4.5 or you're not. Make up your mind. You're talking about APIs like that's all it takes to enhance a game and that it's free of development time and cost. You're hand waiving a lot of stuff and trivializing without knowing what's involved. I say this as someone who works on ports for a living.

 

[joecanada]

I haven't gotten a chance to read a lot of this thread due to busy season at work. How many "SE shot itself in the foot" type of posts have we gotten so far?

Tons but I personally like the sour grapes " if I can't have this Noone should " more as if their ps4 will spontaneously combust when PS4K releases

 

[jeffram]

Tons but I personally like the sour grapes " if I can't have this Noone should " more as if their ps4 will spontaneously combust when PS4K releases

My favourite was something along the lines of "my 20th anniversary PS4 just became worthless"

 

[Beerman462]

Holy crap, you have no idea what you're talking about and you're jumping around. First you say well just bring over the PC shaders, effects, and additional enhancements, but now you're saying you're not bringing it from the PC to the PS4. Make up your mind. Either you are using the PC scripts, code, assets and effects to enhance the PS4.5 or you're not. Make up your mind. You're talking about APIs like that's all it takes to enhance a game and that it's free of development time and cost. You're hand waiving a lot of stuff and trivializing without knowing what's involved. I say this as someone who works on ports for a living.

LOL OK. Shaders are universal and tied to hardware. PS4 and XB1 have the same hardware shaders. GCN and Maxwell support DX12 so any new hardware on PS4K will as well. I never said any of the shit you are extrapolating so get a grip.

Also citation needed.

 

[duhmetree]

Holy crap, you have no idea what you're talking about and you're jumping around. First you say well just bring over the PC shaders, effects, and additional enhancements, but now you're saying you're not bringing it from the PC to the PS4. Make up your mind. Either you are using the PC scripts, code, assets and effects to enhance the PS4.5 or you're not. Make up your mind. You're talking about APIs like that's all it takes to enhance a game and that it's free of development time and cost. You're hand waiving a lot of stuff and trivializing without knowing what's involved. I say this as someone who works on ports for a living.

I don't understand your point. It would take money and time to port/optimize for PS4K.. Ok? Are you saying that labor wouldn't be profitable? Devs are optimizing for XB360, PS4 and XBone in some cases... are you saying this would be worse? If you cutoff XB360 and add in the upgrade consoles.... nothing changes. 4 consoles supported.. Wouldn't it arguably be easier? not dealing with PS360 architecture.

 

[Marty Chinn]

LOL OK. Shaders are universal and tied to hardware. PS4 and XB1 have the same hardware shaders. GCN and Maxwell support DX12 so any new hardware on PS4K will as well. I never said any of the shit you are extrapolating so get a grip.

You sound like you're saying there's no development cost or time increase to have a game soley on the PS4 versus having a PS4 and PS4.5 version. That is flat out untrue. Having both is not free because you have a PS4 version or even a PC version. So that time, resources and money comes in to play by adding another target and that's what I'm getting at. You either agree that there is time, resources, and money involved or you really don't know what you're talking about.

I don't understand your point. It would take money and time to port/optimize for PS4K.. Ok? Are you saying that labor wouldn't be profitable? Devs are optimizing for XB360, PS4 and XBone in some cases... are you saying this would be worse? If you cutoff XB360 and add in the upgrade consoles.... nothing changes. 4 consoles supported.. Wouldn't it arguably be easier? not dealing with PS360 architecture.

PS360 was farmed out to a different dev team usually and the several million owners of each platform was good enough reason to still support those platforms. If the PS4.5 is a small number of units, plus it's not replacing the PS4 since they'll be sold in parallel, what's really the incentive for increased development costs when the PS4.5 will play the PS4 version just fine? It's the same reason you didn't see enhanced Nintendo DSi games and extremely very few enhanced New 3DS enhanced games.

 

[Beerman462]

You sound like you're saying there's no development cost or time increase to have a game soley on the PS4 versus having a PS4 and PS4.5 version. That is flat out untrue. Having both is not free because you have a PS4 version or even a PC version. So that time, resources and money comes in to play by adding another target and that's what I'm getting at. You either agree that there is time, resources, and money involved or you really don't know what you're talking about.

There will be a small amount of time needed, but not full platform port time. It should be pretty easy in general terms. Like if you had to set defaults for a 950 vs a 960. There is a linear progression of power. If you know your game/engine it should be a pretty easy process to judge settings vs performance. As you get more familiar with the limits of each configuration it should become more and more automatic. These games won't be ports. They will be higher fidelity versions of the same code. Does that make sense?

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

First of all they are not replacing the PS4. They are offering an enhanced version.
Second of all the PS4 you currently own will be unaffected by a new PS4K.
Third of all how do you know developers are happy with the PS4?

Sure, things are going well right now, but getting too comfortable is what leads to complacency. They are trying to innovate and take advantage of a significant technological breakthrough to make a better performing machine. What if a competitor comes in the market and is 2.5x more powerful than the ps4 in the same price range? The technology to do that will be available this year. Things won't be going so well then will they?

I understand that, but at the same time I feel that this is will inevitably upset alot of early adopters who supported the original PS4 when they have a more powerful version available in such a short amount of time. Being into technology myself, I know how technology evolves and changes with time, but trying to explain that to someone who just spent $350-$400 on a new PS4 when they have another one planned around the corner will be very hard to explain to an uninformed customer who obviously wants the best experience for his/her money.

Also, VR is unproven technology. Possibly betting your reputation so much on this expensive technology imo is extremely risky.

To my knowledge, most developers seem satisfied with PS4's horsepower, at least initially. I think the Dark Souls creator and a few others mentioned that the PS4 is so powerful, that it is scary or something to that extent. The console is just over 2 years old, what could it possibly do in 5 to 6 years? Look at Uncharted 1 and look at Last of Us for example.

 

[Marty Chinn]

There will be a small amount of time needed, but not full platform port time. It should be pretty easy in general terms. Like if you had to set defaults for a 950 vs a 960. There is a linear progression of power. If you know your game/engine it should be a pretty easy process to judge settings vs performance. As you get more familiar with the limits of each configuration it should become more and more automatic. These games won't be ports. They will be higher fidelity versions of the same code. Does that make sense?

I never said a full platform port time was required. I said additional time, money and resources on top of what the PS4 version already costs. You keep trivializing the additional effort. Experience helps reduce time, but that doesn't mean it negates it. That higher fidelity comes at a cost. Additional effects that wouldn't have been done otherwise because of the PS4 come at a cost. It's the reason that as we get more and more power in each generation, development costs go up. So the question becomes how much time, resources and money do you allocate for such an effort and at what expense and trade offs as a result? Devoting time and resources to more effects means you potentially take away efforts in other areas. I'm not saying these things are impossible to do, but they are now new factors you have to account for and I don't consider them totally trivial either based on experience. Some things will be easier than others, some might not be worth investing in the cost since the PS4.5 will play PS4 games anyway. The bottom line is we shouldn't hand waive and trivialize the amount of time, resources, and money that this brings to the table.

 

[The God]

I understand that, but at the same time I feel that this is will inevitably upset alot of early adopters who supported the original PS4 when they have a more powerful version available in such a short amount of time. Being into technology myself, I know how technology evolves and changes with time, but trying to explain that to someone who just spent $350-$400 on a new PS4 when they have another one planned around the corner will be very hard to explain to an uninformed customer who obviously wants the best experience for his/her money.

Also, VR is unproven technology. Possibly betting your reputation so much on this expensive technology imo is extremely risky.

To my knowledge, most developers seem satisfied with PS4's horsepower, at least initially. I think the Dark Souls creator and a few others mentioned that the PS4 is so powerful, that it is scary or something to that extent. The console is just over 2 years old, what could it possibly do in 5 to 6 years? Look at Uncharted 1 and look at Last of Us for example.

I don't think this is an attempt to satisfy developers or whatever.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

I understand that, but at the same time I feel that this is will inevitably upset alot of early adopters who supported the original PS4 when they have a more powerful version available in such a short amount of time. Being into technology myself, I know how technology evolves and changes with time, but trying to explain that to someone who just spent $350-$400 on a new PS4 when they have another one planned around the corner will be very hard to explain to an uninformed customer who obviously wants the best experience for his/her money.

Also, VR is unproven technology. Possibly betting your reputation so much on this expensive technology imo is extremely risky.

To my knowledge, most developers seem satisfied with PS4's horsepower, at least initially. I think the Dark Souls creator and a few others mentioned that the PS4 is so powerful, that it is scary or something to that extent. The console is just over 2 years old, what could it possibly do in 5 to 6 years? Look at Uncharted 1 and look at Last of Us for example.

There is no Cell technology to master this time around. Devs will squeeze everything out these consoles much faster. Honestly they may have done it already with all this dynamic resolution and other trickery going on.

The only argument I am seeing against this is that it will hurt people's feelings.

 

[Beerman462]

I understand that, but at the same time I feel that this is will inevitably upset alot of early adopters who supported the original PS4 when they have a more powerful version available in such a short amount of time. Being into technology myself, I know how technology evolves and changes with time, but trying to explain that to someone who just spent $350-$400 on a new PS4 when they have another one planned around the corner will be very hard to explain to an uninformed customer who obviously wants the best experience for his/her money.

Also, VR is unproven technology. Possibly betting your reputation so much on this expensive technology imo is extremely risky.

To my knowledge, most developers seem satisfied with PS4's horsepower, at least initially. I think the Dark Souls creator and a few others mentioned that the PS4 is so powerful, that it is scary or something to that extent. The console is just over 2 years old, what could it possibly do in 5 to 6 years? Look at Uncharted 1 and look at Last of Us for example.

People buy whatever advertising tells them to buy. If a new PS4 is marketed as an improved PS4 and not a replacement people will understand. I don't like the phone comparison, but it set a precedent that people will understand.

I think VR will be secondary to PS4K if even relevant.

Most developers will play lip service to hardware manufacturers/promote parody to sell units. More power is always welcome.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

I haven't gotten a chance to read a lot of this thread due to busy season at work. How many "SE shot itself in the foot" type of posts have we gotten so far?

The bitter tears are flowing so freely we could restore Mars oceans to "Waterworld" levels.

 

[Hawk269]

There is no Cell technology to master time around. Devs will squeeze everything out these consoles much faster. Honestly they may have done it already with all this dynamic resolution and other trickery going on.

The only argument I am seeing against this is that it will hurt people's feelings.

Well said. The Cell was a bitch to get a handle on and it took devs a long time to really harness what it was capable of as shown by a lot of the later games. Both PS4 and Xbox One with the x86 platform have from the get go been a lot easier to harness. That is not to say that games will get better and better, which is natural as more devs release more games on the same system.

But really, this PS4K talk to me is really not that big of deal. And to repeat what the person I am quoting, it really seems to be more about peoples feelings being hurt or that other PS4K owners will have better looking games. It really comes down to if you want to upgrade or not. No one is going to force this upon you, if you want better graphics, then get the upgraded system. This does not change the PS4, it will still play PS4 games like it did yesterday, today and tomorrow. For people that opt for the PS4K, it will just be that the games will look better.

I am not personally thinking 4k rendering, but better frame rates and Image Quality etc.

 

[Beerman462]

I never said a full platform port time was required. I said additional time, money and resources on top of what the PS4 version already costs. You keep trivializing the additional effort. Experience helps reduce time, but that doesn't mean it negates it. That higher fidelity comes at a cost. Additional effects that wouldn't have been done otherwise because of the PS4 come at a cost. It's the reason that as we get more and more power in each generation, development costs go up. So the question becomes how much time, resources and money do you allocate for such an effort and at what expense and trade offs as a result? Devoting time and resources to more effects means you potentially take away efforts in other areas. I'm not saying these things are impossible to do, but they are now new factors you have to account for and I don't consider them totally trivial either based on experience. Some things will be easier than others, some might not be worth investing in the cost since the PS4.5 will play PS4 games anyway. The bottom line is we shouldn't hand waive and trivialize the amount of time, resources, and money that this brings to the table.

I don't know that anyone is trying to hand wave anything away, but you trying to command authority as someone who does ports and using that to discredit others won't fly with me. Consideration will be taken and testing done for higher configurations, but in the end it's just adjusting values on ini files within the same API assuming PS4 and PS4K are using the same API which is all but certain.

 

[bitbydeath]

I never said a full platform port time was required. I said additional time, money and resources on top of what the PS4 version already costs. You keep trivializing the additional effort. Experience helps reduce time, but that doesn't mean it negates it. That higher fidelity comes at a cost. Additional effects that wouldn't have been done otherwise because of the PS4 come at a cost. It's the reason that as we get more and more power in each generation, development costs go up. So the question becomes how much time, resources and money do you allocate for such an effort and at what expense and trade offs as a result? Devoting time and resources to more effects means you potentially take away efforts in other areas. I'm not saying these things are impossible to do, but they are now new factors you have to account for and I don't consider them totally trivial either based on experience. Some things will be easier than others, some might not be worth investing in the cost since the PS4.5 will play PS4 games anyway. The bottom line is we shouldn't hand waive and trivialize the amount of time, resources, and money that this brings to the table.

You're placing too much emphasis on port time as it isn't a major factor when working with the same API.

Is there extra work? Yes
Is it much extra work? No

It's like PC devs complaining about putting settings in their games the only difference is consoles will hardcode the settings based on hardware in use.

 

[Marty Chinn]

I don't know that anyone is trying to hand wave anything away, but you trying to command authority as someone who does ports and using that to discredit others won't fly with me. Consideration will be taken and testing done for higher configurations, but in the end it's just adjusting values on ini files within the same API assuming PS4 and PS4K are using the same API which is all but certain.

The bolded is what I'm talking about with the hand waving and trivializing. There's a lot more to it than just configuring a file and hitting go. There's also not one single way to enhance a game either. More noticeable changes are likely to be more expensive. Less noticeable things are of course likely to be less expensive but then again the differences will be negligible. Will someone who gets barely any enhancements be pleased that they paid extra for the enhanced system but barely get any enhancements? You also keep throwing around API like it's a buzz word but the way you use it doesn't seem like you have any experience with programming let alone game programming.

 

[Beerman462]

You're placing too much emphasis on port time as it isn't a major factor when working with the same API.

Is there extra work? Yes
Is it much extra work? No

It's like PC devs complaining about putting settings in their games the only difference is consoles will hardcode the settings based on hardware in use.

This...

PC development 50+ hardware targets.
PS4/4K development 2 hardware targets.

The bolded is what I'm talking about with the hand waving and trivializing. There's a lot more to it than just configuring a file and hitting go. There's also not one single way to enhance a game either. More noticeable changes are likely to be more expensive. Less noticeable things are of course likely to be less expensive but then again the differences will be negligible. Will someone who gets barely any enhancements be pleased that they paid extra for the enhanced system but barely get any enhancements? You also keep throwing around API like it's a buzz word but the way you use it doesn't seem like you have any experience with programming let alone game programming.

Offer insight vs continually labeling others as ignorant. I'm willing to be proven wrong or gain enlightenment. So far you just want to claim intellectual superiority with out proof. I'm going to bed now, but I'm willing to continue this conversation tomorrow.

 

[Slay]

PS4 needs a HUGE upgrade to run the same games at 4k. So something isn't right with this story.

You're right, i don't care about what kotaku or WSJ are saying, native 4K at present time in consoles , it's just impossible. A slim ps4 with features like 4K blu-ray support, and 4K upscaling, makes a lot more sense.

 

[Liabe Brave]

I never said a full platform port time was required. I said additional time, money and resources on top of what the PS4 version already costs. ...The bottom line is we shouldn't hand waive and trivialize the amount of time, resources, and money that this brings to the table.

We shouldn't exaggerate the time and resources required, either. To make a realistic estimate, all we have to do is note that PC games list minimum and recommended specs that also represent a large performance gap. Obviously the development cost of supporting those two levels--whatever that cost is--isn't prohibitive. So why would the PS4 vs. PS4.5 situation be different?

 

[timmyp53]

You're right, i don't care about what kotaku or WSJ are saying, native 4K at present time in consoles , it's just impossible. A slim ps4 with features like 4K blu-ray support, and 4K upscaling, makes a lot more sense.

I've never seen a 4k tv that doesn't upscale on its own.

 

[Slay]

I've never seen a 4k tv that doesn't upscale on its own.

Have you seen an 1080p tv that doesn't?

 

[Aztechnology]

Have you seen an 1080p tv that doesn't?

No, I think they were just pointing out that it was silly to point it out as a feature when it's been standard for TV's for a long while now. The only real revision as far as 4k is concerned is the ability to output to 4k 60 at 4:4:4 using HDMI via 2.0.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

You're right, i don't care about what kotaku or WSJ are saying, native 4K at present time in consoles , it's just impossible. A slim ps4 with features like 4K blu-ray support, and 4K upscaling, makes a lot more sense.

I wouldn't say it's impossible. With a new 14nm APU, it's quite possible to make a ~5 teraflop machine for reasonable cost. That would round about get you there. Just.

It would be such a waste of hardware though IMO when those extra 3 teraflops could be used to significantly advance graphics and framerates. Especially at a time when we have received the weakest 'next gen' consoles to date.

Instead they chose to cater to the small market of 4K TV's? It doesn't make sense.

 

[Tarin02543]

I think it will be a UHD box with increased GPU functionality for VR games. We will not see a different logo.

 

[leeh]

This...

PC development 50+ hardware targets.
PS4/4K development 2 hardware targets.

PC, optimise your engine as best as you can and leave the configuration to the user.
PS4/4K, two fixed hardware platforms which will need to have completely different sets of profiles which most likely won't resolve to fixed configurations as on PC. This results in duplicating the same work and developers having to profile frame-rate on 2 different platforms.

Double the work. The only thing Sony can do is provide enough documentation to get the developers to understand the delta between with real examples. Even that wouldn't be a one size fits all and each developer will have to tweak and profile on the different console specific to their game.

Like I said previously, this could result in less time in optimisation resulting in compromised optimisation.

 

[OléGunner]

The bitter tears are flowing so freely we could restore Mars oceans to "Waterworld" levels.

Will be way worse once the marketing kicks in lol.

I think it will be a UHD box with increased GPU functionality for VR games. We will not see a different logo.

Currently I am leaning towards this as well (though I flip flop regularly)
Mainly VR enhancements with negligible impact to regular games.

 

[Nikodemos]

I don't see what's so odd about console games having graphics settings screens.

Many high-assets mobile games have them nowadays. World of Tanks Blitz goes as far as having a full-size PC style graphics tweaking menu.

 

[kyser73]

I understand that, but at the same time I feel that this is will inevitably upset alot of early adopters who supported the original PS4 when they have a more powerful version available in such a short amount of time. Being into technology myself, I know how technology evolves and changes with time, but trying to explain that to someone who just spent $350-$400 on a new PS4 when they have another one planned around the corner will be very hard to explain to an uninformed customer who obviously wants the best experience for his/her money.

Also, VR is unproven technology. Possibly betting your reputation so much on this expensive technology imo is extremely risky.

To my knowledge, most developers seem satisfied with PS4's horsepower, at least initially. I think the Dark Souls creator and a few others mentioned that the PS4 is so powerful, that it is scary or something to that extent. The console is just over 2 years old, what could it possibly do in 5 to 6 years? Look at Uncharted 1 and look at Last of Us for example.

Ok, so leaving aside the contradiction here, if this is our end of year, it'll be ~3 years since launch. As someone who bought a PS4 Day 1 I have no issues with this, and if you are an early adopter of any tech you need to at least be prepared for something to happen.

 

[Melchiah]

Coming out with a new PS4 imo is preposterous and idiotic at this point when so many people and even developers are seemingly happy with their PS4's and the power it offers. As I said before, I think the new PS4K is primarily for VR support who his still silly to me, but if Sony really does follow through with a new PS4 is just over 2 years after the original, they will lose the respect of ALOT of long term customers I think. How will they even run 4K games that looks like current generation games for $400 when even the most high end PC's struggle with 4K at times with a fluid framerate? The PS4 is selling great. Why pull a tactic like this now when PS4 is selling as well as it is? Why would they gamble so much on something unproven like virtual reality? The adoption rate for 4K is still relatively low, isn't it? Makes absolutely no sense to me. Save 4K for the PS5. For their sake, I really do not hope not have any exclusive console games for the PS4K or imo that could be extremely detrimental to their reputation. We'll see what happens, but usually when gaming rumored constantly resurface materialize over and over again, they are legitimate.

Just to be precise, if it comes at the end of this year, it'll be 3 years after the PS4 launched.

 

[Slay]

I wouldn't say it's impossible. With a new 14nm APU, it's quite possible to make a ~5 teraflop machine for reasonable cost.

reasonable, like 400$ reasonable? I don't think so.

It would be such a waste of hardware though IMO when those extra 3 teraflops could be used to significantly advance graphics and framerates. Especially at a time when we have received the weakest 'next gen' consoles to date.

Instead they chose to cater to the small market of 4K TV's? It doesn't make sense.

they DIDN'T choose anything, we are talking about rumors here, not facts.

 

[Corto]

I don't see what's so odd about console games having graphics settings screens.

Many high-assets mobile games have them nowadays. World of Tanks Blitz goes as far as having a full-size PC style graphics tweaking menu.

I think that that won't happen though. Mobile hardware is much more fragmented. PS4/PS4K games should detect which device is being run on and adjust settings automatically. At least I hope so.

 

[Ogni-XR21]

I find those post where people complain about their 3 PS's they have at home being outdated and they hate Sony if they do this, the funniest.

Damn Sony for making you buy another PS4.

 

[Lady Gaia]

I've never seen a 4k tv that doesn't upscale on its own.

I've never seen a television that can switch resolutions without a blackout period, so there's value in having a console that outputs everything at one resolution. There's also no television on the planet that can rescue HDR, wide color gamut, and >1080p resolutions after they've been eliminated for HDTV compliant output. There are good reasons to have UHD output support even if few or indeed no games are 4K native.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

PS4k doesn't need to be true native 4k for gaming, it just needs to look better on a 4k TV than a regular PS4 does.

 

[Nikodemos]

I think that that won't happen though. Mobile hardware is much more fragmented. PS4/PS4K games should detect which device is being run on and adjust settings automatically. At least I hope so.

That would be the simpler, more elegant solution, true.

 

[Lister]

PS4k doesn't need to be true native 4k for gaming, it just needs to look better on a 4k TV than a regular PS4 does.

So 1440p?

 

[Lister]

I don't see what's so odd about console games having graphics settings screens.

Many high-assets mobile games have them nowadays. World of Tanks Blitz goes as far as having a full-size PC style graphics tweaking menu.

You must have not seen a neogaf pc vs console thread in a while (lucky you).

The typicla arguments thrown about are:

1. Too expensive!!
2. Need to upgrade every x (insert years, months depending on level of stupid).
3. Spend x (insert minutes, hours, days depending on level of stupid) tweaking settings.

Basically this stuff is like the top 3 list of why console gaf hates PC gaming. Except, suddenly it isn't anymore.

 

[longdi]

I know aplenty who says they will wait for a cheaper, more stable slim version of PSx. Sony will complicate future buying decisions with PS4K. Other than this, I'm fine with iterative consoles

 

[AzaK]

I still lament the theft of the resolution definition. For decades it was 240 Mode X, 576i, 480P, 1080P, and then all of a sudden they start using the horizontal resolution.

This is 2K gaming.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

So 1440p?

I'm just saying there are more ways than outright native 4k that the PS4k could boost the image fidelity on a 4k TV that would likely make it "pop" to the consumer visually over the PS4.

Zoetis mentioned no Polaris, so that should lower expectations a bit.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

reasonable, like 400$ reasonable? I don't think so.

I do. With the jump from 28nm to 14nm, they could basically double the PS4 hardware for the same silicon space and cost. That alone would be ~3.7 teraflops for approx $100 silicon.

If they pushed for $150+ silicon, then with the ram, motherboard, plastics etc you would be somewhere near $400 break even.

'Easy Peasy!'

 

[ViridianHues]

If consoles were to go fully iterative, I'm assuming development would work similar to how development works on iOS and Android. You use the SDK to develop for whatever the latest version of the OS is, and eventually the older consoles will not support the newer OS version when the power gap gets too large, effectively "pruning" them from current development family. It will then be up to developers if they want to go back and support those older versions, but there will be no real expectation to.

 

[Zaptruder]

Easy dev solution (not only dev solution).

Target 4.5

drop resolution until 30fps on 4. Tadah, 4.5 gets gooder graphics, 4 gets to play.

 

[Lister]

I do. With the jump from 28nm to 14nm, they could basically double the PS4 hardware for the same silicon space and cost. That alone would be ~3.7 teraflops for approx $100 silicon.

If they pushed for $150+ silicon, then with the ram, motherboard, plastics etc you would be somewhere near $400 break even.

'Easy Peasy!'