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WSJ: Sony Plans New PlayStation for Graphics-Heavy Games
- Thread starter GameSeeker
- Start date
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Good answer, lol.
These new consoles really only need enough 4K to cover marketing purposes. I would anticipate 4K media playback, 4K upscaling, and the ability to play smaller games at 4K. For bigger games I think they would target something closer to 1440p for this iteration and leave 4K for the next one. You are absolutely right that most people don't have 4K yet, and while adoption will speed up it will still take a few years to be a big deal. 1440p would give a nice resolution boost to those with 4K, and a nicer image quality for those outputting in 1080p, but it would also leave a lot more GPU power for extra effects rather than use up every ounce of extra power for resolution that only a fraction of users can make use of.
On the Polaris topic, they wouldn't be using Polaris 10 or Polaris 11, it would most likely be a custom 14nm APU using Zen and Polaris tech, much like how the current APUs are custom parts that use the tech of the time. Putting out an upgraded system that doesn't use Zen and Polaris tech wouldn't make any sense. The next best thing from AMD is much worse and very out of date.
prag16
Banned
Yeah. If this is more than a DS to DSi type upgrade, a lot of people will (justifiably) feel like this was kind of a bait and switch.
Why did I buy a console, ya know? If they move significantly in the direction of Apple style hardware cycles, I'll just stick to PC. Yeah, I'll miss out on a couple "must play" PS exclusives per year, but I think I can handle that.
backbreaker65
Banned
Console Manufacturer: We will be upgrading our existing 400 dollar Console to take advantage of the latest technology.
Gamers: Fuck NO, this shit doesn't make sense.
TV/Audio receiver Manufacturer: Every year We will be upgading this model to take advantage of new technology
Audio/Video Phile: Fuck yeah I can't wait to buy this 4,000 dollar TV I'll just put the 4,000 dollar tv I just bought a year ago in the den and the 5.1 receiver.
Gamers: Fuck NO, this shit doesn't make sense.
TV/Audio receiver Manufacturer: Every year We will be upgading this model to take advantage of new technology
Audio/Video Phile: Fuck yeah I can't wait to buy this 4,000 dollar TV I'll just put the 4,000 dollar tv I just bought a year ago in the den and the 5.1 receiver.
Iced Arcade
Member
we are going to have another 1983
Flying Toaster
Member
I think maybe people are focusing too much on the specific resolution. It could be in the same vein as PS3 where they supported up to 1080p but not many games supported natively and upscaled from lower resolutions. Legacy games will probably have to patch in support anyway so im sure accommodations would be made if needed. And people seem to ignore the VR aspect of this rumor for some reason.
Marty Chinn
Member
These situations aren't comparable. This is even worse than the phone comparison.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
The faulty assumption here is the comparison of the two markets.
backbreaker65
Banned
It doesn't matter if it's comparable or not, all gamers do is complain about shit constantly. That was the point and no matter the comparison gamers will complain. Even when they are told the device you have will still be supported the complaints still doesn't stop. Complain, Complain, Complain. Sometimes you just have to let shit be, the world will move on without you.
3-4 years is very different than annual upgrades, especially in a tech heavy industry. We've had entire console gens that have lasted four years. More often than a mid gen refresh and I would start to get wary but one updated model after a few years with proper care taken to ensure the older model doesn't get left behind is a very appealing concept to me.
Marty Chinn
Member
Sure it matters is its comparable because if it's not, then there might be a valid reason to complain. Your example shows nothing to show that there's is no reason to complain.
backbreaker65
Banned
It wasn't about device comparison, it was about people comparison.
Theognosis
Member
I wish Sony would give me something to cheer about before they make my 2 units of PS4 and 8 controllers obsolete in such a short period. So far I could only list Bloodborne, Resogun and Rocket League (which is better on PC) as its better games. Compared to the Wii U's amazing library, that's nothing. If the news about the PS4K is true, the PS4 might very well be my last Sony console.
Marty Chinn
Member
I know but your example doesn't show people in similar situations reacting differently. So you're not making any type of valid point at all.
backbreaker65
Banned
So says you.
I hope this is sarcasm.
Mustaphadamus
Member
what happened in 83?
Aztechnology
Member
Why does everyone seem to want to hold back progress and innovation for parity?
Also how does your PS4 become obsolete? Will it stop being able to play games or somehow magically make all your games run at 10fps?
Lol why would you have 2 PS4s with 4 controllers each? Opinions and all, but seeing you list only 3 games for PS4 (while back handing it) and then saying Wii U's meager library is amazing is humorous to me at least.
video game industry's great crash. Recovery only happened once the NES became hugely successful in the late 80s.
Yeah, except these consoles will die if they had the same level of support as Audio/Videophiles.
the closed spec aspect and apis that fully expose hardware can easily net another double digit percentage if not more. that is if we compared a console and a theoretical pc on say windows using the exact same hardware. even 100% gains wouldn't surprise me depending on circumstances.
on pc you constantly have to deal with backwards compability. for example optimizing for avx2 might not be worth the hassle considering most of the userbase don't have capable cpus even though it can net big performance gains. This is obviously a non-issue on locked hardware.
show me an example of a pc equivalent to a ps3 or ps2 and the games that run on it. I have no clue how you would go about finding a configuration that correctly mirrors the performance characteristics of a custom system like those but I'd be happy to be presented with one.
"Double performance" is obviously just an arbitrary term. For some games it might while for others it won't. Different games have different bottlenecks but it's a hard truth that code is more optimizable the smaller the target set of hardware is.
I have no trouble believing the rumors. I just dislike it as much as the "innovation" of win 10 or uwp(though for completely different reasons).
so you are saying we shouldn't complain/express worries when we have valid concerns? We should drink the kool-aid, pull down our pants, lube up and embrace the corporate hype instead?
Get excited about diamond flake plated hmdi-cables like audiophiles back in the day?
Marty Chinn
Member
Yep says me poking holes in your post and showing how flawed the entire thing was. You might as well be comparison someone who had their brother died and ask why they're crying when this person over here is happy eating ice cream. That's how completely different and non comparable your post was of two different groups of people.
I think if anything mobile gaming is headed for an '83 style crash.
Consoles are just in decline overall. Making this move would hasten the decline but who knows. Maybe they just want to keep Nintendo boxed in the "lacks power" zone, since while NX would be stronger than the PS4, it would still be much weaker than PS4.5 .
Marty Chinn
Member
Actually, looking at the crash of 1983 might not be bad at looking at parallels. A lot of companies were releasing multiple iterations of their platform. I'm not sure the comparison is valid without refreshing myself with the facts, but it's not something I had considered before.
It will if the goal is for AAAs to do 4K native and with a 30+ framerate.
Edit: As seen with this chart
You can list stuff like this all day but its worthless when you consider AA is turned on which eats up performance and is not needed at 4k and its ultra settings which not only mean it's doing a higher res but the gpu is also working even harder to pump out more detail that wouldn't even be seen in the console version in the first place
Pc proves that your worries are unfounded. It is not hard for devs to tailor their games to different specs. There is plenty of proof of this out there for you to see. Your whole argument falls flat on it's face and you are still here defending it like a broken record.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
/salute
Aztechnology
Member
Still braving the front I see. I got shell shock after about 15 pages.
Marty Chinn
Member
No, PC doesn't prove it since we're already looking at games built on the console with Day 0 patches and now you're talking about adding more cost and development time to the PS4 SKU on top of that. Plus PC game development is a mess comparatively because of the fragmentation. On top of that the PC fragmentation causes all sorts of wasted potential because of the fragmented user base.
what lol
thats news to me.
the problem of nintendo is not power at all. wii u is just an interesting product.
DarkConfidant
Member
If they added BC to this, I would buy a new PS4 for it.
They wont, however
.
They wont, however
but I can hope
ps3 or ps4 bc?
texhnolyze
Banned
North America's crash.
RoW carried on with various PCs (as in Personal Computers, not necessarily Wintel) for most of the 80s & 90s.
Yeah, meant to say North American console market crash.
The computer game industry, on many different computer formats, thrived during this time in Europe, UK and NA. Commodore 64 and Amiga, IBM PC, to name a few.
bitbydeath
Member
Still silly to bring up something that occurred 33 years ago when gaming prior to then was closer in popularity to the Ouya as opposed to the Wii U.
it's hard to take anything you say seriously when you want me to believe that it really adds money to development to make a game work for both a 290x and a 270. That's basically what you are trying to sell me. It's like your whole foundation is built on lies.
Beerman462
Member
This is completely false and has ZERO data to back it up.
Please name even one game in this gen that has double the performance on console vs equivalent PC hardware.
Even last gen where console hardware was more specialized the equivalent PC hardware hung with consoles. I had a thread dedicated to this. Shitty dual core Celeron paired with 4GB of the slowest DDR3 and an 8800GT downclocked by 50% to match the Xbox 360 GFLOPS. Had the exact same performance as an Xbox 360 in multiple games. I ran Tomb Raider 2013, Bioshock Infinite and Alan Wake.
https://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=139339663&postcount=199
I have presented this post many time and no one has been able to argue against it. I'm not trying to be arrogant, but it's a fact. It's pure math. Consoles don't get a magical advantage over PC when using similar hardware. Modern PCs/PC APIs are very efficient.
joecanada
Member
Oh well I feel you there but honestly this year I started sharing games with a friend and buy all my games from PSN weekly sales for 40 bucks. Easily saved 200 this year alone on 5-6 games.
However you could also trade in or sell your ps4 or wait for a price drop. I don't think you'll find PS4K or whatever that much more. they aren't gonna go back to 599 ps3 business model likely
Marty Chinn
Member
I could say it's hard to take anything you say serious when you don't understand the logistics of game development. Hell even doing a simple port can take a decent chunk of money. I'm not saying a PC version means it costs money to do both a 290x and 270 GPU version. I'm saying a PS4 game development costs X amount of money for a given amount of time. Now suddenly you've got a PS4.5 as an additional platform target which means you have X + Y in costs. Whatever enhancements for the PS4.5 doesn't come free. How many console games do we see come with a Day 0 patch? Now you want to do a PS4 version and an enhanced PS4.5 version added on to the dev time and costs already? If you think this stuff comes free in terms of money and time, you have no idea how game development works.
Beerman462
Member
Hardware performance is fairly predictable at this point. If you get a PS4 copy working at 1080p/30fps it's easy to get a rough estimation of what a 50% more powerful machine can handle. It's literally just math.
Marty Chinn
Member
I'm not talking about pure performance though. I'm talking about additional effects, shaders, etc. Those enhancements cost money and time to develop.
Beerman462
Member
Those are built in with PC builds in mind. It's all math and a matter of percentages. They don't have to develop new shaders for more powerful hardware.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
Coming out with a new PS4 imo is preposterous and idiotic at this point when so many people and even developers are seemingly happy with their PS4's and the power it offers. As I said before, I think the new PS4K is primarily for VR support who his still silly to me, but if Sony really does follow through with a new PS4 is just over 2 years after the original, they will lose the respect of ALOT of long term customers I think. How will they even run 4K games that looks like current generation games for $400 when even the most high end PC's struggle with 4K at times with a fluid framerate? The PS4 is selling great. Why pull a tactic like this now when PS4 is selling as well as it is? Why would they gamble so much on something unproven like virtual reality? The adoption rate for 4K is still relatively low, isn't it? Makes absolutely no sense to me. Save 4K for the PS5. For their sake, I really do not hope not have any exclusive console games for the PS4K or imo that could be extremely detrimental to their reputation. We'll see what happens, but usually when gaming rumored constantly resurface materialize over and over again, they are legitimate.