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[10k]

Even I would be happy with that. I hope a much better GPU though. Go Nintendo. Push that boat out.

I'd be good with 2.5, which apparently was the minimum for the samiritan demo back in the day, but I'd be concerned about the heat and power draw of a GPU that powerful.

Indeed it was but things should improve going to X86. I know it's pie in the sky but I'd love for Nintendo to have a quad core i5 in there. It would be glorious.

Even an i3 would smoke everything but I don't think those are made in quad cores.

 

[mark-san]

The Wii U emulator you mentioned runs games far worse than the original even on high-end PCs. Even if its hit accidentally the correct framerate the experience is unstable and full of graphic errors and input lags.

BC ist not something many gamers want, neither PS4 or XOne had backwards compatibility at launch. And current "BC" on XOne is a joke. Nothing that would approve Nintendos "seal of quality".

Why should Nintendo invest money in emulation if they can make money with remasters?

Responding to your question first, because they valuate their customers being able to run software they already own on the new system. See almost every Nintendo system ever released for examples.

As for Cemu, what the dev has achieved so far without any official documentation is pretty commendable and no easy feat.

https://youtu.be/sVbjjeSeoNs

At least running Mario Maker, i wouldn't call it "full of graphic errors". Give it enough time and i'm sure it will reach Dolphin levels of quality, maybe even surpass it.

 

[Neoxon]

I've never understood the motivation for fake leakers, I don't get it at all.
Is it purely attention seeking?

More-or-less, yeah. As a stage actor & a Theatre minor, I can testify to the rush of having the spotlight on you (even though I've only had one or two lead roles in plays & musicals).

 

[Malus]

More-or-less, yeah. As a stage actor & a Theatre minor, I can testify to the rush of having the spotlight on you (even though I've only had one or two lead roles in plays & musicals).

It seems you've gone to school specifically to have authority on NX leak discussion

 

[Dictator93]

Boy, that complexity.. You are aware that the official iOS desktop emu has been x86 all this time, right?

Unification with the next handheld. ARM isn't anywhere near as complicated as you're making it out to be.

I should have rephrased my original coment. I am not stating ARM is inherently complex, rather that it is anunecessary complexity ontop of just having something which ports natively. The best performance (no emulation layer or something), and the easiest way.

Nintendo should do everything hardware-wise to make ports easy. I am saying this with regards to it being a console console... and not some sort of handheld... thing.

 

[Lonely1]

The one reason I think that is in Nintendo's best interest to keep BC is Minecraft.

 

[18-Volt]

I do wonder why people keep talking about a handheld when 3DS is doing damn well. And there's plenty coming out for it.

There are literally only 6 upcoming releases in Japan. After Pokémon Sun & Moon, Nintendo will probably seal the coffin lid for 3DS.

 

[jblank83]

As a Nintendo fan since the original Donkey Kong, they need to move on from the GC/Wii/U architecture.

That creakingly ancient architecture is holding them back in a demonstrably serious way.

If that means losing BC this generation, so be it. Hopefully their hardware would then be BC in future generations, with VC as a means to accessing older games.

 

[mark-san]

As a Nintendo fan since the original Donkey Kong, they need to move on from the GC/Wii/U architecture.

It is holding them back in a demonstrably serious way.

But one doesn't preclude the other. Please read my other posts on this thread for clarification. I do believe they will move away from PPC to x86 for the home console, but will still provide some form of backwards compatibility.

 

[doop_]

It seems you've gone to school specifically to have authority on NX leak discussion

I think that sometimes too.

 

[Neoxon]

It seems you've gone to school specifically to have authority on NX leak discussion

I think that sometimes too.

Nah, I actually want to get into video game development after I graduate. Having some insight on programming for NeoGAF discussions is just icing on the cake.

I should have rephrased my original coment. I am not stating ARM is inherently complex, rather that it is anunecessary complexity ontop of just having something which ports natively. The best performance (no emulation layer or something), and the easiest way.

Nintendo should do everything hardware-wise to make ports easy. I am saying this with regards to it being a console console... and not some sort of handheld... thing.

But as stated earlier, Nintendo would have more to gain from unifying their console & handheld architectures than they would lose by having a different architecture for the console compared to the competition.

 

[v1oz]

Since NX is both a console and a hand held. ARM chips make much more sense. Performance per watt is also better.

 

[LegendofLex]

They're not going to make the exact same game that you buy once run on both. This may happen, but it'll be the exception, not the norm. Handheld and console user experiences are two completely different things.

Console = Big game, sit down for a while
Handheld = Smaller game, played in bite size chunks

You can see this again and again in all of their handheld and console releases.

At this point, the biggest differences between the two are scale and production values. You're also much more likely to see really significant multiplayer on consoles.

Compare the handheld NSMB games to the console ones. Compare SM3DL to SM3DW. They're all games that you can play in basically the same way, with the main difference that the console ones have better production values and multiplayer.

Compare Ocarina of Time 3D and Majora's Mask 3D to Wind Waker HD and Twilight Princess HD. Or, as an older example, compare Link's Awakening to A Link to the Past.

Compare handheld and console Mario Kart entries.

etc. etc.

Even in the big "console-sized games," you'll often see Nintendo go out of their way to introduce modern conveniences that would make most of those games more than playable on handheld hardware.

 

[-Horizon-]

Reddit and GAF mods working together? the thirst is real.

the wait is intense yo

Spoiler

waiting for gamefaqs to get involved somehow now lol

 

[Pokemaniac]

As a Nintendo fan since the original Donkey Kong, they need to move on from the GC/Wii/U architecture.

That creakingly ancient architecture is holding them back in a demonstrably serious way.

If that means losing BC this generation, so be it. Hopefully their hardware would then be BC in future generations, with VC as a means to accessing older games.

Moving away from PPC != using x86.

 

[Nanashrew]

Guy's I'm a leaker, I have second hand info because I know a buddy at Nintendo and even borrowing his personal copy of Ace Attorney on DS. It's lit and I am legit.


This doesn't seem hard to fake tbh.


-

Also the part about borrowing Ace Attorney is true. I'm not going to ask about info on NX either, I'd rather remain in the dark about a lot of stuff, plus he's my buddy and I don't want him fired.

 

[Lonely1]

Moving away from PPC != using x86.

How is MIPS moving along nowadays!?

 

[Neoxon]

Since NX is both a console and a hand held. ARM chips make much more sense. Performance per watt is also better.

That has yet to be confirmed. It's just an inference we've made based on WSJ's report & the comments made by Iwata on the matter. It's not baseless, but it's still just speculation for now.

 

[georly]

How is MIPS moving along nowadays!?

I like mips ;_;

 

[Candescence]

But as stated earlier, Nintendo would have more to gain from unifying their console & handheld architectures than they would lose by having a different architecture for the console compared to the competition.

Not to mention ARM is basically so ubiquitous due to mobile that most game engines support it anyway, especially Unity and UE4. Having both devices be ARM would make sense for the long term and for cross-compatibility, and likely the only devs who are bound to complain are the ones who work purely on console as opposed to devs with experience with mobile and indies, and even then porting would hardly be a monumental task.

 

[Rooster]

Re: x86 handheld.

Jim Kellar worked on Zen architecture for AMD and performance/watt is pretty much his thing. See his work on Apples ARM chips and his work on PowerPC chips for P.A Semi.

 

[blu]

I should have rephrased my original coment. I am not stating ARM is inherently complex, rather that it is anunecessary complexity ontop of just having something which ports natively. The best performance (no emulation layer or something), and the easiest way.

Just to make it clear, I brought up the iOS dev emu example as a reference point of 'coding on x86, deploying on ARM' (with no hassle whatsoever.)

Nintendo should do everything hardware-wise to make ports easy. I am saying this with regards to it being a console console... and not some sort of handheld... thing.

What you're saying would be true IFF nintendo went for the exact same x86 uarch - it.e. jaguars/pumas. Only then devs could reuse their (5% of uarch-tuned) code from the ps4/xbone and run in on the NX worry free.

How is MIPS moving along nowadays!?

Erm.. Fruity-sh-ly.

 

[Neoxon]

Re: x86 handheld.

Jim Kellar worked on Zen architecture for AMD and performance/watt is pretty much his thing. See his work on Apples ARM chips and his work on PowerPC chips for P.A Semi.

Isn't he Tesla Motors' hardware engineer?

 

[Dictator93]

But as stated earlier, Nintendo would have more to gain from unifying their console & handheld architectures than they would lose by having a different architecture for the console compared to the competition.

I must have missed that post. I guess as someone who does not really understand or engage in mobile gaming, and instead thinks about dedicated sit down experiences, I tend to ignore that facet of it all.

Given that, it is hard to say... but I am not sure making things more technically "complicated" for risk-averse publishers is the way to go if they want their console thing to sell truckloads. But I am less interested in the business side of things, rather, which specs produce the best looking and performing games (that also play great as a result).

 

[mark-san]

Not to mention ARM is basically so ubiquitous due to mobile that most game engines support it anyway, especially Unity and UE4. Having both devices be ARM would make sense for the long term and for cross-compatibility.

And the same engines have x86 support...

I'm still of the opinion that x86 escales UP better than ARM. Here's a good article on the subject:

http://www.extremetech.com/computin...its-own-arm-chips-in-macbooks-and-the-mac-pro

 

[spatenfloot]

They're not going to make the exact same game that you buy once run on both. This may happen, but it'll be the exception, not the norm. Handheld and console user experiences are two completely different things.

There are many PS4/Vita games that are exactly the same game and more coming, especially in Japan. It would likely be even easier for Nintendo to do it since their new handheld will probably be more powerful than a Vita.

 

[Rooster]

Isn't he Tesla Motors' hardware engineer?

Yeah he moves around a lot. Supposedly he finished what he was doing at AMD before he left though.

 

[TheSlySoul]

There are literally only 6 upcoming releases in Japan. After Pokémon Sun & Moon, Nintendo will probably seal the coffin lid for 3DS.

Third party still will be releasing stuff this year. Guessing the last thing we get will be Yokai Watch Busters with YW3 getting ported to NX.

 

[Mysterious]

There are many PS4/Vita games that are exactly the same game and more coming, especially in Japan. It would likely be even easier for Nintendo to do it since their new handheld will probably be more powerful than a Vita.

PSVita isn't exactly lighting up the charts now is it? It has no unique, distinctive feature that is a must-have. It's a novelty feature.

Does Nintendo want their next handheld to be a novelty? Probably not.

 

[bachikarn]

I don't really see how that helps solve their software drought problems though.

It allows them to develop games faster or more efficiently. They can reuse assets or have groups that can support multiple project instead of being focused on console or handheld.

The cross play idea is interesting but kind of goes against Nintendo's current business practices. I'm not saying it won't happen, but people make it seem like it is guaranteed.

 

[Neoxon]

And the same engines have x86 support...

I'm still of the opinion that x86 escales UP better than ARM. Here's a good article on the subject:

http://www.extremetech.com/computin...its-own-arm-chips-in-macbooks-and-the-mac-pro

But the point is that ARM scales up better than x86 scales down, the latter of which would pose a problem for the handheld (for the reasons mentioned earlier).

 

[Aostia]

I hope the "x86" thing represents the amount of first party games Nintendo is gonna put on their next home console

 

[CuckFupertino]

So backwards compatibility is there? That's nice at least.

I don't think that's calling out backwards compatibility. It says it can support "current gen" games which likely refers to Playstation 4 and Xbox One games.

In fact, if it's based on x86, I'd bet the farm it *won't* have any sort of backwards compatibility, since Nintendo would have to write an emulator.

 

[Toadthemushroom]

Re: x86 handheld.

Jim Kellar worked on Zen architecture for AMD and performance/watt is pretty much his thing. See his work on Apples ARM chips and his work on PowerPC chips for P.A Semi.

Jim Keller apparently didn't care much for AMD's ARM solution (K12): http://www.fudzilla.com/news/processors/39179-jim-keller-was-not-a-big-fan-of-k12

 

[-Horizon-]

Another "currently unverified leak" separate from this one just popped up.

 

[Malus]

Another "currently unverified leak" separate from this one just popped up.

It's better to just ignore most of these until they get verified by someone. The NX subreddit gets rumors regularly.

 

[Nanashrew]

There are many PS4/Vita games that are exactly the same game and more coming, especially in Japan. It would likely be even easier for Nintendo to do it since their new handheld will probably be more powerful than a Vita.

If UE4 keeps getting more popular in Japan, expect that to dry up for the Vita because it doesn't support UE4.

UE4 also seems to be saving some big publishers because it's not worth it making new engines all the time.

 

[Neoxon]

PSVita isn't exactly lighting up the charts now is it? It has no unique, distinctive feature that is a must-have. It's a novelty feature.

Does Nintendo want their next handheld to be a novelty? Probably not.

Part of the reason why the Vita failed was because it was far too powerful of a handheld for the time, which began the cycle of the Vita having no games & developers being put off from making games because of the lack of sales as a result of the Vita not having many games. And by the time that mobile technology went far beyond that of the Vita, the damage had long since been done. Nintendo was able to bypass this by making the 3DS relatively cheaper to develop for since it wasn't nearly as powerful, as well as kick-starting interest with their own line of games.

 

[thefro]

I'm pretty skeptical of even the "verified rumor", since that's all second-hand information.

 

[Malus]

It allows them to develop games faster or more efficiently. They can reuse assets or have groups that can support multiple project instead of being focused on console or handheld.

The cross play idea is interesting but kind of goes against Nintendo's current business practices. I'm not saying it won't happen, but people make it seem like it is guaranteed.

It just seems like something that'll result in a handful of extra games, which is kinda neat, instead of a whole or near whole library's worth of games which would really be a game changer.

 

[Peterc]

Someone knows what untypedhero wants to say?
Found this in the same reddit post

[–]HaTaX 1 punt een uur geleden
Everyone is talking as if it's either ARM or x86 (or PPC for sake of argument), let's not forget that the Wii-U contained both a PPC CPU and an ARM CPU. Arm was used for the OS while the PPC did the heavy lifting in games.
Perhaps the ARM side of things has been beefed up to the point where it can run more than just the OS and they've gone to x86 for the heavy lifting?
Just a thought... http://wiiu daily . com/wii-u-operating-system/

[–]untypedhero 3 punten 58 minuten geleden
http://i.imgur.com/MERLCv2.jpg


[–]casey_contra 1 punt 39 minuten geleden
is this something you can confirm ;P

[–]HaTaX 1 punt 47 minuten geleden
Exactly! And if they did extend the ARM's power / abilities then it would give developers of mobile platforms an excellent head start for porting over their apps as well. Makes perfect sense to me and the only thing that it leaves hanging out there is where they're going to go with backwards compatibility. (Everything up to Wii I'd expect to be doable with emulation on x86, Wii-U might pose a problem though)

 

[Pokemaniac]

And the same engines have x86 support...

I'm still of the opinion that x86 escales UP better than ARM. Here's a good article on the subject:

http://www.extremetech.com/computin...its-own-arm-chips-in-macbooks-and-the-mac-pro

The difference certainly isn't to the degree that it makes up for x86's difficulties in scaling down. Especially when you compare it to what the other consoles are using.

 

[Alexlf]

Man, x86 would make me sad. Give me x64 and the delicious 6+ GiB of RAM! I'd pay extra for having no loading times.

 

[blu]

And the same engines have x86 support...

I'm still of the opinion that x86 escales UP better than ARM. Here's a good article on the subject:

http://www.extremetech.com/computin...its-own-arm-chips-in-macbooks-and-the-mac-pro

That article is circa Apple A7. Apple have, erm, outdone themselves times over ARM-wise since then. Why? Gassee was and still is spot-on.

 

[Roo]

Looks like reddit mod wants to work together with neogaf mods:

Unprecedented Partnership

Spoiler

amirite?

 

[atbigelow]

Someone knows what untypedhero wants to say?
Found this in the same reddit post

For one, the Wii U OS was not running on the ARM chip. So the whole convo is kind of moot.

 

[OdysseusVA]

Looks like reddit mod wants to work together with neogaf mods:

Screw that. This is reddit's bag of shit

 

[mark-san]

But the point is that ARM scales up better than x86 scales down, the latter of which would pose a problem for the handheld (for the reasons mentioned earlier).

The difference certainly isn't to the degree that it makes up for x86's difficulties in scaling down. Especially when you compare it to what the other consoles are using.

This discussion is going in circles, as i already shared my points on why it wouldn't be a problem if the multiple systems on the NX family used different CPU architectures.

We can have both, guys. x86, which scales up better, on the console. And ARM, which is currently the best option for a mobile device, on the handheld. All of this and they could still have a shared (software / SDK / tooling) architecture.

The biggest advantage for the console to use x86, of course, is "parity" with the 1080p twins.

 

[Pokemaniac]

Someone knows what untypedhero wants to say?
Found this in the same reddit post

Aside from generally making it seem like they don't actually have concrete details, I'm not really sure what they're getting at. It's unlikely a developer would know if the NX used a dual CPU setup like the Wii U has, since the secondary one is invisible to developers. They could be hinting at an ARM handheld and x86 console, but the post is generally a bit vague to get any meaning from.

Man, x86 would make me sad. Give me x64 and the delicious 6+ GiB of RAM! I'd pay extra for having no loading times.

Most people use x86 to refer to both actual x86 and x86_64 (or amd64 or x64, if you prefer those names).

 

[DavidDesu]

I wonder if their second screen implementation will be like their Wii U proprietary connection tech. Imagine if they got Wii U level of streaming quality but through regular phones/tablets over wi-fi in your house. Maybe any remotely modern phone or tablet can be used as a Wii U style controller for the home console. The gimmick being they'll sell special controllers to slot your iPad/iPhone/S7 etc. into. Buy the one applicable to you.

The handheld uses the same protocol to stream gameplay from the console of course, but has it's own on board tech to play portable versions of the games. Or maybe there won't be a portable console at all, but they'll use people's phones for the portable element....

Who knows. Nintendo. Something's going to be out there!