Audioboxer
Member
Sorry my bad, read you wrong.
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Colin Moriarty of Kinda Funny: source says "most developers are not happy with PS4.5"
- Thread starter Chobel
- Start date
Sorry my bad, read you wrong.
To expand, thinking about your misconception, I'd say that generally TPS linear games don't seem to be all that popular anywhere, or at least as popular as they used to be. There aren't very many of those out there.
Audioboxer
Member
Well Tomb Raider is probably the closest comparison for UC. Like UC though it's an established franchise with an old fan base.
The Division has done well, but it's really just an FPS with a 3rd person camera mod. Plus loot game primarily and those can do well regardless of genre.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
It's funny because 1 year from now, this will be the main complaint about the PS4K lol. The irony will be so tasty.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
But Uncharted 4 and Dreams don't look good mainly due to art. Like both of those devs have actually spoken about their technical advances that make those games look good.
It's actual technical reasons as to why they look as good as they do. It's not just about the art at all!
I am actually excited if this truely does becomes the strategy going forward. It will mean no more resets every new generation where developers and gamers have to buy into a whole new ecosystem. If it follows the Apples pattern where the ecosystem is the constant and the hardware upgrades every 3 years then i am all for it - being able to bring games forward with you on each new iteration is brillant!
Marty Chinn
Member
Why do people keep bringing this up? This was guaranteed with the architecture change before the PS4 came out. The PS4K and having regular iterations does not introduce this idea. This was already set 3 years ago.
I wasn't certain that Sony would continue to keep the same ecosystem for each new generation when they announced the move to x86, the only certainty was that backwards compatibilty would be a lot easier. With the rumours of the neo i feel lot more confident that Sony will keep the ecosystem constant between each new iteration of playstation.
Really? You'd be happy about a constant cycle of iterative releases? That's possibly the worst thing that could happen imo, and guarantee's stifled progress in terms of tech and design, as new, vastly more powerful hardware will be forever held back by older, far more inferior hardware. The equivalent would be something akin to a permanent state of cross gen game releases.
I really, really hope the PS5 is still a thing, and that it isn't iterative, and isn't tied down or held back by either the PS4, or the PS4K. I want next gen advanced hardware that isn't held back in any way, where devs are allowed to truly extract the absolute most from it, from the ground up, without consideration of inferior products.
Quite the opposite it should prevent the slow release of games at the start of each generation as developers begin to retool and redesign processes around the new hardware.
I do think the ps5 will exist, though not certain if it will be called ps5, and it may just be an iterative upgrade to the neo with Sony mandating the neo as the new baseline.
While I don't agree with your general opinion/sentiment surrounding this. I agree with this part.
Unlike you, I support this idea of a PS4neo, as in a premium model that is a step up in power that will run things better and costs more than the base model that's cheaper. People who want it should have the option to shell out more money to get it.
But I do also believe that there should be really big step up in power like a PS5, and forward compatibility should not come into the mix and hold back the the system and its games.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
PS5 will be a thing because eventually developers will stop working on the PS4. PS4K only exists to push 4K because Sony's been banking on that for a long time now.
SolidSnakeUS
Member
I think you can bet something like the PS5, if it comes about 4 years after the PS4K/Neo, something like 2020 or 2021, it will more than likely use HBM2 memory, more of it and so on. Unless Blu-Ray is going to be replaced with something else by then, I'm sure a lot of the parts, outside of the CPU and GPU, would be cheap to make and it would be fast as hell. So yes, it would be a powerful console, but as we've seen, BC is likely not going to happen with the PS5 (probably).
Chronospherics
Member
Unless I'm mistaken, you can choose not to take advantage of the PS Neos features, right? If big games like Call of Duty chose to ignore it, I doubt it would affect the comercial performance of their titles.
Similarly for smaller devs, it isn't going to mean any significant amount of extra work is required. As they can practically ignore the hardware. I mean I assume they still need to test that it still runs on Neo, but I also assume Sony have some features in its development kits that help make that a pretty effortless process if it already runs on a PS4.
Similarly for smaller devs, it isn't going to mean any significant amount of extra work is required. As they can practically ignore the hardware. I mean I assume they still need to test that it still runs on Neo, but I also assume Sony have some features in its development kits that help make that a pretty effortless process if it already runs on a PS4.
Marty Chinn
Member
This doesn't make any sense. If the future systems are backward compatible and you can buy all that software still in the store, how are you saying this is any different then?
SolidSnakeUS
Member
Since the PS4/Xbone run on x86 architecture, same as the PC, if there is going to be a PC version of the game, you can basically just take the PC version and figure out which settings are best for the NEO console. Also, do you really think the big named companies will ignore the NEO settings? Or do you think it will fall back to the bullshit parity crap that Ubisoft pulls (trying to make all their games, including PC games, look similar so no feels offended or left out or whatever)?
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
wapplew
Member
Same architecture doesn't mean they are the same, consoles and PC still very different.
You can't just run PC version on console, it doesn't work like that.
Them both being on X86 doesn't help that much, otherwise every PC game would have a Linux and MacOS version..
I was also thinking mp, friends etc but Sony have already covered those bases with cross play and buy. So i guess you are right they already set forth the motion with the move to x86.
ZehDon
Gold Member
This type of schedule would likely kill off a good amount of early adoption for each new generation. The ps5 wouldn't sell ~40 million before its neo refresh, if consumers knew an objectively superior console would be coming out. That's a pretty massive problem - low early adoption, longer cross-gen period, higher development risk. The "neo" would, effectively, become the real starting point of the generation.
Boombox On
Member
More likely to me that they will gradually increase the pace over time until they just iterate yearly, and they'd just drop the numbering scheme and just have it be one consistent line of hardware products under a single ecosystem of games.
But they'll jump on a neo iteration knowing an objectively superior console is coming out?
Hawk269
Member
While I agree with you for the most part, if and when a PS5 appears, I would hope by that time, games would be made with the PS5 in mind and then PS4 or PS4.5 versions will be based off of the higher end version...so basically PS5 Ultra, PS4.5 Medium, PS4 Low settings.
This is all new for those that have been part of consoles, but I think what will happen is that more games coming out will have built in pre-sets that the system it is playing on would read and just load that pre-set that matches the system. Perhaps we may see more user configurable options due to this. Some may prefer more IQ and sacrifice frame rate or vice versa. It is a whole new world for console gamers though.
How does that make any sense? Having a slower release schedule doesn't correlate with being held back by older platforms, quite the opposite. Yes, it's true that if we were locked in to a continuous state of iterative releases, and with it constant cross platform releases, we likely would see quicker game releases, but we'd see that precisely because the games would be less ambitious as a result of being held back by older tech.
It's like PC's now basically. The reality is, were games to be designed from the ground up for only the top end GPU's, games would look absolutely insane, and an entire generation ahead of what we have now. Instead, developers are left with having to also cater to the lowest denominators, e.g. lower power consoles and those with weaker GPU's, and as such games are less ambitious in terms of tech. Instead all the people with super high end enthusiast level GPU's get is improvements like higher resolutions, better AA, and some graphical options or tweaks, instead of anything truly revolutionary or game changing.
If we got stuck in to a constant cycle of iterative releases, e.g. PS5 games had to also run on the PS4K (the way PS4K games have to still run on the PS4, albeit pared down), the same limitations would apply. Tech and graphics advancements would be massively held back, and even though they'd still improve in large and noticeable ways, they'd never be close to as extensive as games prioritised and built from the ground up exclusively for, and solely on new generation tech.
XxRampage07xX
Member
Ugh I hope not. I would rather them keep the traditional cycle.
2013: PS4
2016: PS4-Neo
2020: PS5 & PS5-Neo
I really dont thnk your going to need to worry about that. They aren't going to worry about 8GB RAM or jaguar CPU's forever. Devs are going to want to move on too wholesale, and the only real inference is that PS5 is fully BC with PS4.
Sony knows more than anything the strength of minimum spec for consoles and development processes.
Again, PS4K is just a stronger PS4 that runs PS4 games better, people keep acting like PS4K is a brand new console in a line of consoles that will have smaller jumps and no baseline when that is not implied anywhere.
SolidSnakeUS
Member
Why would you release two versions of the new console at the same time? The reason the Neo exists is because of the lack of power of the current console, and it's been over 2 years since the PS4 came out. But I do think PS5 would probably be about 2020/2021.
FarFromAnyGame
Banned
Because the PS4K is just an upgraded PS4 it's not the "next-gen" console. PS5 will be that.
PanicFreak
Member
Bro, 5 is just a number the slap on the damn thing. The PS5 will happen.
Movalpolos
Banned
Guys I have some inside info from a trusted source.
Most developers think Video Games were a mistake.
They're nothing but trash.
They also say the age of Sony is done from all the bullet holes their feet.
Should I make a new thread about this?
I mean technically I'm an insider. I worked at ATVI, EA and SE in LA.
Most developers think Video Games were a mistake.
They're nothing but trash.
They also say the age of Sony is done from all the bullet holes their feet.
Should I make a new thread about this?
I mean technically I'm an insider. I worked at ATVI, EA and SE in LA.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
In that scenario what would be the cut off point for devs in terms of catering to old hardware?
And I'm saying why isn't it likely that there is no "next" console in the way we're used to. Upgrades get released and eventually one of them gets phased out.
ZehDon
Gold Member
Lol, the PS6 doesn't replace a PS5Neo the same way a PS5Neo utterly replaces a PS5. Apples and organes. Consumers will shift to the most cost effective solution - which is the neo revision. If Sony are banking on desperate gamers buying weaker hardware because they think they can't wait, they're going to lose out.
Why wouldn't it? One would think the switch to x86 means BC from this point onwards in all future console releases (as long as they stick to x86 as well that is).
Why would they make PS4K the new standard if the CPU is just a slightly overclocked PS4 CPU and the RAM is the same with a marginal BW increase and the GPU is only doubled? Referring to PS5 as PS4K2 will do it a disservice, and what your pitching isn't even anything to really take advantage of. THats why PS4K is out right now, to take advantage of right now's games, not the games 3 or 4 years from today
XxRampage07xX
Member
PS5 for gamers who want decent price + decent performance.
PS5 Neo for gamers who want to have the very best performance of all games.
That means with two consoles at launch, Sony will be able to offer more options for consumers from casuals to hardcore. And with that, "potential" market for PS5 will also be expanded as more customers are attracted by options that Sony provide (casuals can easily buy PS5 with affordable price and enthusiasts who used to dislike consoles due to the lack of power on those hardware might decide to buy PS5 Neo).
Also, I don't think Sony decides to make the Neo because the PS4 is underpowered. If people do hate it becaue of its power, how comes that console is selling so well? So my guess is that Sony just simply want to expand their market and sell their hardware to more customers from different demographics.
Yeah, honestly I don't think this neo thing can be done again (as a mid-gen stop gap). If it does well, and shows there is a demand for a higher spec console at a higher price, I think the best they could do is release the 2 models at launch together to basically make people more open to buying the systems at or near launch.
As in, rather than the ps5 releasing in 2019 and the ps5neo releasing in 2022. PS5 and PS5neo release in 2019 at the same time.
Of course this way, the ps5neo may not be as big an upgrade over the ps5 (unless it costs like 150-200 more), as the ps4neo is over the ps4. But I think this is the only way it'll work again if sony wants good early lifecycle sales for their consoles. Otherwise many people will just go, "yeah, I'm not sure I want to buy this at launch if there's a possibility the neo comes out in 2-3 years" and could result in very low adoption of the console when it launches.
But then again, even if the base ps5 is 399-459 and ps5neo ends up being 599. It'll be ps3 all over again as far as people are concerned. "you need to get the 599 version for the REAL next gen experience" would be the common belief.
There would be no disservice because in this case there's no actual "PS5"
- Release PS4K
- Three years later release PS4K2, phase out the PS4 and make PS4K the standard
- Three years later, phase out the PS4K and release the PS4K3, PS4K2 becomes standard
and so on. Why isn't this possible?
It's possible but I don't think the console userbase/market will support each of the releases all the well if it becomes a fully iterative model like this. It could very well result in less sales overall, where people who may have skipped no console releases in the past, start skipping one or two. And people who skipped one console release in the past start skipping three or four and so on and so on.
I'd be perfectly fine with this, though as you rightly mentioned, it may cause a messaging issue regarding the pro versions price. Then again, a mid cycle iterative console also causes a messaging problem, so either way you're dealing with some sort of blowback.
Personally I'm all for two versions at launch, with a more tangible performance gulf between them. Eg if the PS4 launched at $399, but they had an R9 280 / R9 280X equivalent Pro model that launched alongside it at say $499. I have the money to spend, though I appreciate many people don't, I just don't want to have to spend it every few years.
If you want to compare it to other technologies, they also have variants etc. Eg a Pro version of a particular TV, plus a standard model, the iPhone 6S Plus and 6S, Galaxy S7 and S7 Edge, cars with standard trims, as well as a Sports Performance version and so on. It would essentially follow a similar model. High end performance for those that want and can afford it, and a more affordable model for those that can't. And you still have the added bonus of not feeling the need to spend another several hundred dollars mid cycle after just a short few years, which means better value proposition and incentive in being an early adopter or buying at launch.
family_guy
Member
They dont have to since the games will be largely compatible on each platform. It's like how people have the option to get an iPad every year, but if they are happy with the current performance they can pass on the latest model. Sony doesn't care which model you have as long as you keep buying software within their ecosystem.
General Lee
Member
I don't see the traditional model sticking after Neo. Switching to next gen has always been a massive issue for devs/publishers because there is no user base on the new consoles, so they have to make a port for the old gen, which was an expensive proposition, and severely limited the game designs on the new hardware. Having a more granular upgrade approach should be easier for devs in the future, so that once PS5 arrives, they could start making their games only for PS4 Neo and PS5 at first, and later on move to PS5 and PS5 Neo once the user base is large enough.
wapplew
Member
But iPad sales go down every year. Don't you think console, a much niche product, should be worry about slow adoption rate?
Because then you'd effectively be screwing over previous model owners, in a much shorter time frame than is typical of most generation cycles. In other words each purchase of the said console would have much less value proposition. Far fewer people would be likely to buy a console that was going to be phased out in just a few years. Add to that, you'd be left with smaller and smaller install bases, that means less software sales for developers. Eg right now the PS4 has an install base of 40 million, throwing that away with the PS4K would be ludicrous. The market is not at the point of saturation yet where they're yearning for a new generation of tech and bored or unimpressed with the current gen, instead that 40 million install base simply wants more games.
They'll have to deal with that with mid-gen refreshes anyway
gundamkyoukai
Member
Releasing 2 models at the same time does not help Sony .
Unless they plan to do it 3 years later again .
Releasing a model a few yeas later help them in many ways .
It allows them to react faster for software and hardware , it allows them to get people buying the system twice .
They can have a high and low price at all time ,cause certain gamers to be hype about hardware again .
That is just to name a few points .