They need to be held accountable... for your excitement? You have no skin in the game; any money you may have spent on a preorder can be easily returned.
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Rumor: Horizon: Zero Dawn delayed to early 2017
- Thread starter dmr87
- Start date
They need to be held accountable... for your excitement? You have no skin in the game; any money you may have spent on a preorder can be easily returned.
What difference does it make if I pre-order a game 6 months before release or a game 24 months before release and why is it any of your business? Get off your high horse, son.
GalacticMouse
Member
"Held accountable" is probably a strong phrase for what I'm saying.
I basically mean that if you're going to announce a date and immediately start asking people for money, any backlash you get for missing that date is completely warranted.
I'm glad that delayed games get a chance to be the best version of themselves. I don't have an issue with a developer needing more time to finish something and I'm glad publishers are increasingly receptive to the idea.
I just want to see marketing catch up and stop announcing games so early when trends are starting to show that so many of these games aren't hitting their promised dates.
EDIT: Further clarification...I'm basically saying, don't get mad at the developer for needing more time. Get mad at the publisher for announcing a date halfway through the development cycle.
...when did Sony ask for anyone to give them money for Horizon?
TheOfficeMut
Unconfirmed Member
You're right, both situations are stupid and so is the outrage associated with them concerning delays.
finalflame
Member
Seems like delays are becoming more the norm than the exception these days. Disappointing.
Omnistalgic
Member
The entitlement is real...
My man said I love for all the games to come in November because that's when I have time off from work. All the big AAA should just release in the Fall cuz that's when working people can play lol. Man...we are some spoiled brats
GalacticMouse
Member
It's been available for pre-order at every major retailer since E3 last year. Yes, technically that's the retailer asking for money, but the publisher also benefits. They get to base their sales expectations in factual data earlier on and it lets them consider and even get moving on sequels early if they're seeing enormous pre-orders (think Watch_Dogs / Destiny).
That pre-order data is valuable to publishers, so when they announce games early, they're able to get a much earlier look at how the game is going to fare commercially.
I'm not sure it's entitlement to expect companies to hit a promised date if you've put down your money for it or let them freeze the amount on your credit card (Best Buy's process).
Of course you don't have to buy it in the end and none of us have to pre-order. Deposits are refundable and orders can be cancelled. But if the early announcements aren't there to drive pre-orders up, why aren't companies waiting until further in development to release information?
There's nothing wrong with any of that.
I really do think that some people on GAF massively overstate the importance of pre-orders.
Chobel
Member
Yep, there's some serious mismanagement for SIE studios.
GalacticMouse
Member
In what way? I don't mean to imply that they're important to consumers...ultimately they're really not anymore. Games are mass produced and widely available at launch, so unless you're getting a financial incentive like Best Buy's $10 reward cert program or it's a limited game, there's no reason to give a retailer an interest free loan.
But they're clearly still important to the business side of the industry or publishers wouldn't be asking developers to create pre-order exclusive DLC at every turn.
Both of these posts are more in line with the point I'm trying to make. Agree 100% with both of you.
Mr. Giggles
Member
It ain't so bad, the early days of HD development has conditioned us to these delays.
If you're still mad, I suggest swinging a cactus.. It's therapeutic
finalflame
Member
It doesn't bother me half as much as some of the people in this thread, it would just benefit everyone if publishers and studios set realistic deadlines and communicated dates that were not > 50% likely to change.
The bigger problem is that announcing games and release dates so early and fostering pre-order culture leads to crunch and/or games being released in an unfinished state.
Mushroomer25
Member
I'm not upset by the delay, but I think it's starting to reveal the (slightly irresponsible) pattern that Sony has fallen into with their first-party releases.
-> Reveal major game at E3, to intense hype
-> Confirm a Fall release date for the next year
-> Sell consoles on the promise of a strong year of games to come.
-> After holiday sales rush, delay game into following year
-> Next E3 hits, continue cycle.
Happened with The Order, Uncharted, and now Horizon. It's been repeated years of 'Sorry for the delays, but NEXT year will be PACKED'.
-> Reveal major game at E3, to intense hype
-> Confirm a Fall release date for the next year
-> Sell consoles on the promise of a strong year of games to come.
-> After holiday sales rush, delay game into following year
-> Next E3 hits, continue cycle.
Happened with The Order, Uncharted, and now Horizon. It's been repeated years of 'Sorry for the delays, but NEXT year will be PACKED'.
funkystudent
Member
Why does Sony suck so bad at releasing games for the holidays?
Its been the same situation from them every year since Uncharted 3.
Its been the same situation from them every year since Uncharted 3.
Sony is not the only one guilty of announcing big games and delaying them. This has been a trend for a lot of companies now. Watch Dogs, Division, Arkham Knight, Quantum Break, Fable Legends, Dying Light, Witcher 3, etc. all fall under this category.
Bitch Pudding
Member
Some call it inability, others coincidence, and still others call it the "avoid the by far most crowded time of the year when games like the annual FIFA or CoD are released so why bother" strategy...
Chobel
Member
Sony is doing it more than the others though.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I think it a bit strong to go as far as saying it is deliberate but absolutely FP output from Sony has gone way off track this gen. To think (to give one example) that ND released 4 games in six years on the mare to develop PS3 really highlights it. Odd considering PS4 should be easier and the dev tools are much matured since PS3.
I would guess in ND's case one major reason was the Amy Hennig episode and possibly the 2 teams experiment not working out?
DriftingSpirit
Member
Games are more expensive and difficult to build now.
How are you quantifying that?
funkystudent
Member
If its a strategy to avoid the big holiday blockbusters then OK but stop announcing games for the holidays only to delay them. It makes you look like you dont have your shit together.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Good. The Valve/Blizzard/Nintendo approach. More polish and not 20GB day one patches as a side effect.
I dont think its something they are bad at, for me they are clearly avoiding releasing their exclusive games in the fall. Last holiday they had bundles for both Black Ops 3 and Battlefront, why release your first party game against those 3rd party giants?
TBH its smart if they dont relase Horizon in the fall, its new IP, those might struggle against third partybig games. Bad for us as consumers who want this ASAP, better for them when it comes to the market
Chobel
Member
Mushroomer25
Member
Except most of those were third-party publishers, therefore not relying upon those games hypothetical release dates to sell hardware. My concern is that first-party studios advertise these games as 'Coming Soon' to push short-term hardware sales, knowing full well that the product won't hit that date.
As for Microsoft, they're guilty of a similar crime. They announce projects far too early, resulting in pitches for games that may never actually happen. Phantom Dust was a total embarrassment, and Quantum Break seemed to completely change form before it actually launched. They announce titles like ReCore & Crackdown with zero indication of finished gameplay, and proceed to market on said titles.
Sony's reveals at least resemble finished games - they just get consistently advertised with release dates that rarely get met.
Bear Force One
Banned
Extremely thankful they aren't just releasing because they set a date like HALO MCC.
Cute that people try to make this a bad thing.
When has this ever been a market reality? And I mean like ever.
Game announcements do not foster hardware adoption. If they did June would be the biggest NPD month of the year.
get2sammyb
Member
The tools may be better but the demands for these games are increasing all of the time. Look at the Madagascar level for Uncharted 4 and it's far beyond anything Naughty Dog's ever done before.
This applies to all developers/publishers by the way - they're all trying to push the envelope, but that makes development harder than it's ever been.
Horizon: Zero Dawn probably shouldn't have been dated because it always looked like an outrageously complex project from the start.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
No one would be pissed about those delays if Sony didn't felt the need to always announce release date that they can't keep.
A couple of times is ok, but it became the norm now.
A couple of times is ok, but it became the norm now.
Chobel
Member
Yeah, you can't make good games unless you delay them. /s
Cute that people try to make this a good thing.
Exactly, either they're misleading their audience, or they're too bad at sticking withing a schedule. And that's not good no matter how you spin it.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
No doubt that is true to whatever extent but compare Uncharted 1 to Uncharted 4:
U1: 70 devs and new engine from scratch on alien hardware with "beta" tools. I think I read they even created tools/software?
U4: 250+ devs, adapted PS3 engine and much more refined dev tools /software and less headache inducing architecture.
So yes bigger and harder now but to compensate they have bigger teams and better tools too.
Mushroomer25
Member
Frankly, it's not a quantifiable phenomenon. But there's no doubt that companies reveal games because they want to push hardware sales. That's why they put on flashy stage shows, and stream the whole affair in HD to every service possible. it's an advertisement, with the intention of pushing sales. When people do buy consoles, the future is a factor to be considered. What's coming in the next year? What seems to be so close, it can be considered a benefit to my $300 purchase?
By advertising Horizon as a Fall 2016 game, instead of "Release date TBA" - the PS4 looks better. If only by a tiny smidge. Morally, that means Sony should be held accountable for how they label release dates. They receive tangible benefits from the practice, and should not be engaging in deception to boost said benefits.
For the record, I'm not calling on Sony to be investigated for false advertising. Nothing they've done has been blatant enough to warrant punishment. But just keep this sort of thing in mind, when God of War IV is announced for a Fall 2017 release.
I seem to keep saying this every time a potentially great game is delayed but I genuinely don't mind if it's best for the game. I'd happily wait months longer rather than have a game launch earlier than it should have and end up with something that's exponentially worse than it could have been.
There's been far too many incidents of that over the past few years.
I'm surprised that some people actually believed that a announced launch is some guarantee or contract of when a game is going to be released. Game development is far too volatile for it to ever be a real option for the bigger games.
I really have no issue if this has been delayed beyond the original date.
There's been far too many incidents of that over the past few years.
I'm surprised that some people actually believed that a announced launch is some guarantee or contract of when a game is going to be released. Game development is far too volatile for it to ever be a real option for the bigger games.
I really have no issue if this has been delayed beyond the original date.
Games taking longer to make, higher budgets, more delays needed...etc.
Sony: "Let's introduce shorter console generations!"
Yes I know Xbox might do the same.
Melchiah
Member
I've never paid a physical pre-order in advance. Even digital ones from the PS store are charged only a couple of days in advance due to preloading. Is that different where you live?
THE:MILKMAN
Member
It wouldn't surprise me if Uncharted 4 is the first game to be PS NEO ready!
Or maybe include GT Sport beta on disc!
InquisitorAles
Member
Seriously, too early announcements is a bad thing and it needs to be stopped. Yes, a lot other companies doing this, but Sony lately became a goddamn hype machine, they doing too much early announcements just to create hype on their shows. Long waits and delays is frustrating, i stopped caring about almost all upcoming games because of this shit. One of the reason i liked Fallout 4 is small time between official announcement and release date, i hope more publishers would follow Betshesda example in PR way.
brotkasten
Member
Depends entirely on the games and genres someone likes. Unless you mean by pure game count.
Papacheeks
Banned
Blizzard showed and announced Diablo 3 in 2008. Then didn't release it till 2012.
QB was shown in 2013 at E3. Then shown for 2014 with a 2015 release.
Then it got pushed to 2016.
Shit happens.
Ratchet and clank was suppose to be last year, but got delayed. ANd guess what? It's fantastic.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I would not be shocked either... with GoW4/Deep Down showcasing the potential.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
The last delay was probably for adding the flags for ultra textures and/or 60fps!
Horizon will definitely be NEO ready though now it is seemingly coming after October.
Chris Metal
Member
No, I mean Zelda WiiU was totally released in 2015.
It is different in different regions. I use both the UK and USA stores, in the UK they take payment a couple of days before but in the USA they take payment when you order. I use both because sometimes it suits me to pay early when I know that I have money that I won;t necessarily have on release.
I pre-ordered Uncharted 4 the day it was announced because there was never any doubt that I was going to buy it at launch and I had the money available, it just makes it simpler sometimes. That was delayed a little and although I would have preferred the game the day the PS4 launched, I had no issues with waiting until the game was ready.
I also have No Man's Sky pre-ordered on my USA account, Again, there's no doubt at all that I was getting it at launch and I had the money available.
It always feels nice getting these games and because I've paid so far in advance it almost feels like I;m not paying. It;s not for everybody but it works really well for me.
Can't wait to see how they present it at E3. Colin was right on the gamecast today, they are basically fucked. If they show the Neo version, people will ask to see how it looks on PS4, if they comply, the game will look bad in comparison, if they don't comply, people will get suspicious. If they show the PS4 version, people will ask what the point of Neo is if it's such a small difference between the versions to not be deemed worthy of showing.
Fucked if the do, fucked if they don't. E3 will be entertaining as hell.
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