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Emily Rogers: NX Not Using x86 Architecture - Won't Blow Away Current Gen Consoles

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Lets say there are 2 nx skus with different specs & soc but still have a shared library. Could ncl just be dicks and and out some devs console dev kits & others handheld dev kits under the guise of just being NX dev kits, but do to nda and such no studio is able to either a. Directly compare dev kits to another studio or b. Mention that they're varying dev kits per sku?
 

E-Cat

Member
And for reference, the ps5 isn't going to be a ps5. It's going to be a ps4k2 (maybe it will even do 4K games if we are lucky). That's how hardware will be from now on folks. Generations are dead. The sooner you let that go the better you'll be with how this market now works. How it used to work means nothing. Throw the past and those expectations away.
Do you not understand that whatever you call it, you'll eventually run into scalability issues where a certain game won't run satisfactorily/at all on an earlier revision? Much better to cut the cord at some point and call it a new generation, because otherwise variable compatibility on a per-game basis will lead to a lot of customer confusion and anger.
 

MuchoMalo

Banned
I wonder how people will react if Sony and MS shift to ARM next gen, which really isn't incredibly unlikely beyond wanting BC. I'm guessing a lot of people here will pretend that this thread never existed.
 
R

Rösti

Unconfirmed Member
While I find it uplifting that Emily Rogers embodies a firm belief in, and commitment towards, the information provided, I must assume the role of critical friend and suggest these details of NX may not be absolute in a designated entity, meaning development ongoing. The truth regarding mean/peak power ratio may or may not lie somewhere in the middle. Of course, the difficulty of comparing two different systems ought to be highligted, as in Emily's text, and access to as well as understanding of comprehensive profiling of main code routines etc., I deem necessary to with fairly good conscience be able to make these claims of a system's ability to "blow away" some competitors.

My own firm belief is that Nintendo has created this upcoming machine with the design and the needs of a system for the next decade. Making NX a dynamic and attractive environment for innovative business and investments in future solutions and technologies for a more competitive industry I believe is paramount. Furthermore, focus on openness to new technologies as well as exploration of synergies between proposed stationary and stationary/portable devices for long-term prosperity and security I believe are two key points of this project. Discussing exclusively raw numbers in terms of competitiveness I find neither important or unimportant, but instead would like to suggest there is more to the NX than just common technologies, and that the project exploits a new approach towards a harmonised, competitive and innovative development environment externally (third party developers) and internally (inhouse).

That Nintendo, considering the poor performance of Wii U in terms of sales as result of untimely hardware specifications together with a marketing profile that failed to attract consumers, would deploy a short-sighted and even narrow-minded way in developing NX I find unfathomable. Obviously, I cannot comment here in detail on the specifications on NX. But let me make some general remarks. Future success for Nintendo, primarily in the fiscal year starting April 01, 2017, won't be a symptom of a weak system. Nor will any conceivable infirmity be offset by supplemental devices of discretionary powers. That the hardware is very modern, as stated by Emily, I have no doubt about, but I am not fully inclined to agree on the proposed performance.

Furthermore, following the revelation of NX being absent from E3 2016, I have been hoping that certain individuals would display a bit more soundness in satiating the insatiable appetite for information about every single aspect of NX. A hope not realized. This isn't directed towards Emily Rogers in any way, but towards individuals with technical know-how. I know I may present myself as a bit gruff and recalcitrant on this matter, but I must once again stress that unwarranted disclosure of sensitive information ought to be prevented, not made real. Of course must illicit information outflows be accounted for as well, though Emily appears fairly confident with the legitimacy of the information provided to her.

I make no attempts to present myself as in possession of direct insider information related to NX. The above text represents my opinion, and my opinion alone.
 

bachikarn

Member
The main rason why the fantasies of handheld and console running the same games is silly.

Yup, unless the two are in the same ballpark. Which most likely mean the console is just a supped up handheld, and I don't understand that market appeal of that.

I think part of the issue with these prediction is that Nintendo has released so little info, that everyone latches on the few quotes we do get. The quote from Iwata that everyone uses to justify the shared library idea could very well just mean they are making better in house development tools.
 
Do you not understand that whatever you call it, you're eventually going to run into scalability issues where a certain game won't run satisfactorily/at all on an earlier revision? Much better to cut the cord at some point and call it a new generation, because otherwise variable compatibility on a per-game basis will lead to a lot of customer confusion and anger.

There is planned obsolescence in this new model, from all the manufacturers involved. Think iOS updates on the iPhone. It will be communicated to gamers.
 
Because the console will be smaller and take less electricity. I kid you not, this is how Nintendo's hardware team thinks.

Yeah, that really doesn't sound too farfetched.

Because the Wii was substantially less powerful than the competition but still became their biggest ever console maybe?

A Wii-sized hit might not be likely, but if they release a reasonably-priced system, promote it well, and release appealing games consistently, without massive software droughts all the bloody time, it will sell a lot better than Wii U.

That's true, if they keep having a steady lineup of first party games it will probably be worth it for just that.

Because they have 60 million customers who want a powerful portable and 10 million who will buy just for Nintendo. If the box is portable, plays Nintendo console and portable games and can play Android mobile games, it will have a place in the market and do fine.

I bet they go Nvidia X1 in console and a lower clock lower power X1 in mobile, under XB1 performance, but plays console, portable and Android games and apps is my guess, with could saves so you can continue playing at home or in travel.

But what about the third party games? I really doubt developers are going to support hardware weaker than or on par with Xbox One when there very likely will be a new Xbox next to the new PS4.

Basically it will be another Wii U situation.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
God, I missed all the drama since last night.

Most funny posts are the one crying over the lack of X86 architecture by comparing it to the toaster CPUs in PS4 and Xbone.

I hope that at least all the fandom built around 10k will get a better grip at reality from now on.

I always said that Nintendo will build the best console $299 could buy and this sounds like it. Who knows, maybe even cheaper than that.

If the info about Tegra in the handheld is true it will be strange for Nvidia not to push to be present also in the console. That would make it even more interesting.

Anyhow, these new info make the shared library theory much more probable and with a strong handheld and a decent and cheap console that both can play the games that Nintendo can produce per year, that would make for a great line-up of games for launch and lifelong.

I'm pretty happy about today's info, I hope Nvidia will be on board also for the console.
 

Mitsurugi

Neo Member
Is it possible Emily meant the NX home console is closer to Xbox One on paper. Say it's 1.5 or 1.6 TFLOPs, however, in real world use it's actually noticeably more powerful than a regular PS4. Perhaps the combination of Vulkan, ARM, modern GPU tech and whatever modifications Nintendo's implemented make direct comparisons to XBO/PS4 impossible or irrelevant.

I hope we don't have to wait until Spring or Summer 2017 for Digital Foundry and some intensive third-party game to clear this all up.
 

E-Cat

Member
There is planned obsolescence in this new model, from all the manufacturers involved. Think iOS updates on the iPhone. It will be communicated to gamers.
So, to come back to how this discussion got started: would you say that a 2017 NX's "planned obsolescence" as far as third-parties go begins the moment a 10 TFLOPS PS4k2 is released? Because I would.
 

sfried

Member
If the info about Tegra in the handheld is true it will be strange for Nvidia not to push to be present also in the console. That would make it even more interesting

...

I'm pretty happy about today's info, I hope Nvidia will be on board also for the console.
This is one thing that intruiges me.

If rumors are true, we might very well have a split in chain of suppliers: One from Nvidia, and one from AMD.
 

gbland

Member
Less power than the XB1. Nintendo is gonna have another generation with lack of 3rd party support if that is the case. I just hope they stop after the NX and go 3rd party. I would love to see their games on the ps4 or xb1
 
Less power than the XB1. Nintendo is gonna have another generation with lack of 3rd party support if that is the case. I just hope they stop after the NX and go 3rd party. I would love to see their games on the ps4 or xb1



Power isnt the reason why Nintendo isnt getting 3rd party support. As for the last part, come on that's blatant port begging.


I think they are targeting $199, not $299. And $129 for the handheld.



Add 20 dollars to the handheld and we'll agree. I always believe Nintendo would aim for a 64 to 128gflops handheld with a 540p screen and a 512gflops to 1tflops home console, basically playing the handheld games at 1080p with a good AA and 60fps. Basically, handheld being their lowest common denominator and target for all their games.
 
So, to come back to how this discussion got started: would you say that a 2017 NX's "planned obsolescence" as far as third-parties go begins the moment a 10 TFLOPS PS4k2 is released? Because I would.

I mean, first of all third parties don't really give a shit about Nintendo devices. Even if the nx WAS a ps4k, literally, they still wouldn't give a shit. That's a pipe dream. But to actually answer your question, by the time the second iterative ps4 upgrade hits there will likely be another nx device in play. Platform as a service. Adjust your thinking from the ways of the past to the ways of the future.

Less power than the XB1. Nintendo is gonna have another generation with lack of 3rd party support if that is the case. I just hope they stop after the NX and go 3rd party. I would love to see their games on the ps4 or xb1
Or we can not read.

Hey wouldn't it be cool to see uncharted 4 without dithering and a smooth 60fps at 4K resolution and higher image quality? I assume you're in the u4 thread now asking for a pc port, based on this post.
 

what-ok

Member
Another machine that is made by nintendo to play nintendo. I guess they aren't trying to compete in the game console market just like we saw in every generation since super nintendo. Not surprised.
Nintendont is very relevant. Nintendgimmick in 2016. (=
 
I am shocked Nintendo would focus on building a cheaper, more power efficient console over competing with current gen consoles with no hope of ever capturing that market.
 

impact

Banned
Close to Xbox One is disappointing as fuck, but I don't even know what I expected. Let's hope they can get 1080p with AA this time rather than all the jaggy as fuck first party WiiU games.
 
Close to Xbox One is disappointing as fuck, but I don't even know what I expected. Let's hope they can get 1080p with AA this time rather than all the jaggy as fuck first party WiiU games.



This is a shame that Nintendo underestimate the benefit of a good IQ to their games.
 
basically confirms previous rumors. we've heard from sources that were dismissive of the x86 architecture speculation before, and pretty much all the rumors so far say it wasn't going to be on the same level as the new console upgrades.

Let's hope they can get 1080p with AA this time rather than all the jaggy as fuck first party WiiU games.

nintendo never quite got over the N64 blurriness criticism.
 

E-Cat

Member
I mean, first of all third parties don't really give a shit about Nintendo devices. Even if the nx WAS a ps4k, literally, they still wouldn't give a shit. That's a pipe dream. But to actually answer your question, by the time the second iterative ps4 upgrade hits there will likely be another nx device in play. Platform as a service. Adjust your thinking from the ways of the past to the ways of the future.
Keep on drinking the Kool-Aid, buddy.
 
I think they are targeting $199, not $299. And $129 for the handheld.

A super low price didn't help the GameCube a little bit or pushed the 2DS that much.

Nintendo stuff is for most people generally not interested - not just relative to the price Nintendo wants.
 
I think they are targeting $199, not $299. And $129 for the handheld.
which is perfect

I get hardcore nintendo fans are upset here but IMO this is nintendo's only play. They have no place in the market in any other capacity. A hardcore console release would be DOA.

Besides there's lots of mobile games with great visuals and I'm sure this will be even better by the time it comes out. It's all about the game library. If this takes them one step closer to the unified library approach, plus allows app devs to release their stuff on nintendos own store then that is great by me.
 

Ponn

Banned
She specifically says "raw" power, repeatedly. She also talks about the chip being modern/custom. I can only assume that a modern/custom chip with the same "raw" power, will outperform an outdated chip if the same "raw power".

yeah... thread has become really painful to read.

You would think after doing this dance with "B.b.b.but modern architecture/chip' bullshit with Wii U before that launch would've stopped that nonsense but nope, we got a few stragglers.


God bless you optimistic hopefuls for keeping the faith time and time again.
 

what-ok

Member
Regardless of tech I bet nintendo will do well based on their ability to pull off some amazing first party game exclusives, be it more family friendly and hand holding.
Have no worries though. Once Bloodborne 2 appears on the machine nintendo will be fine. HAHAHAHAHA. I kid.
 

MuchoMalo

Banned
Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about. Regarding the processing power of the NX:

A person that I know with a current (from sometime earlier this year is all I know) NX dev kit has indicated to me that if he had to guess, he'd say the performance differential between the NX and XB1 is roughly equivalent to that of the PS3 and X360 in the NX's favor. He went on to say that this is an educated guess only based on the performance of an exclusive game that his studio is currently working on that uses an established mutiplatform engine that is already running on the dev kit 'quite nicely'.

He noted that because part of the spec isn't locked down yet (RAM amount/speed? cpu/gpu clocks? he wasn't specific about this), this is subject to change, but with the current spec and tools available to him, that's where it's currently sitting performance-wise. When I asked him about the game I got the usual "it's a new IP with a new gameplay element that fully leverages the unique features of the NX hardware"

Of course, I'm unverified and you don't have to believe what I'm saying if you don't want to. That's your prerogative. I'm just telling it how it is.

Hm... Sounds like they did go one of the routes that makes sense then. Slightly more powerful than one of the consoles, so for ports they can just use the same settings as Xbone and call it a day. So, the specs are probably along the lines of:

  • ARM Cortex A72 8-core CPU @1.8-2.0GHz
  • GPU: AMD GCN 14CUs @800-850MHz (1.4-1.5TF) or Nvidia 750 Ti-based GPU @900MHz (1.1TF)
  • 8-12GB LPDDR4 on a 256-bit bus (100-129 Gbps)
Note: I'm not taking Polaris off the table because it seems like Emily is only so certain that its off the table due to performance. I wish I could just ask her to clarify if anyone actually said that it's not Polaris, or if she just thinks that weak = something older. Though, she'd probably either ignore the question or indirectly blast me anyway...
 

sfried

Member
A super low price didn't help the GameCube a little bit or pushed the 2DS that much.

Wait, what? A super low price did help the GameCube!
You would think after doing this dance with "B.b.b.but modern architecture/chip' bullshit with Wii U before that launch would've stopped that nonsense but nope, we got a few stragglers.


God bless you optimistic hopefuls for keeping the faith time and time again.
Why are people so certain that Emily's rumors are correct?
 
Wait, what? A super low price did help the GameCube!

I didn't know that the <$100 price tag had a big effect on the sales.

The Wii was released at a way higher price point with GCN tier hardware but sold like hot cakes - because software sells hardware not a low price.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
I get hardcore nintendo fans are upset here but IMO this is nintendo's only play. They have no place in the market in any other capacity. A hardcore console release would be DOA.

It's not Nintendo fans who are upset by this. Mostly the people who if they would need to match their words with facts would not pay $399 for a Nintendo console.
 

MuchoMalo

Banned
Why are people so certain that Emily's rumors are correct?

Because pessimism. If somebody posts tomorrow that the console is just a New 3DS with HDMI out, people will immediately believe that too. I'd say that this has an 8/10 chance of being true, and the Semi-Accurate rumor has a 3/10 chance.

Edit: Sorry, I hit submit without paying attention.
 

sfried

Member
Because pessimism. If somebody posts tomorrow that the console is just a New 3DS with HDMI out, people will immediately believe that too. I'd say that this has an 8/10 chance of being true, and the Semi-Accurate rumor has a 3/10 chance.

I kinda think at this point people want to belive whatever they want...

So if someone decides to make some sort of article on why Nintnedo should go 3rd party, everyone will jump on it.

Edit: The SemiAccurate rumor seems about as credible as Emily Roger's rumor. In other words, its still conjecture and speculation at this point.

Either way, people still want Nintendo to be doomed.
 

Ponn

Banned
Why are people so certain that Emily's rumors are correct?

WFK2JOS.jpg

Nnnnnnnnnintendo? Any rumors confirming its not pie in the sky "omg it blows PS4 and XB1 out of the water" and based more in reality with how Nintendo operates is a shitton more believable.
 
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