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[atbigelow]

Alright, so based on my calculations, if the chip is based on a Pascal-Tegra and the console uses 20W like the Shield TV while the handheld focuses on super low power, we should see a 150-200GFLOP handheld and a 700-750GFLOP console. By my calculations comparing AMD and Nvidia, that makes the handheld a good 20% or so faster than Wii U, but the console 10-15% slower than Xbone in the best case. This all matches what we've heard. If Nintendo were to bump up the console's power consumption to 30W, it would compete with or even beat PS4. So, performance obviously wasn't even a consideration for Nintendo if they weren't able to match PS4. Still, that sounds like one juicy handheld.

I'm gonna guess that Nintendo won't make the NX console use less power than the Wii U. Wii U gobbles up 32W. No telling how that all factors into the different components.

But I'd bet they'll hit at least 30W. Even if they went to 40 or 50, they'd still be considerably under the competition.

 

[KingBroly]

I'm gonna guess that Nintendo won't make the NX console use less power than the Wii U. Wii U gobbles up 32W. No telling how that all factors into the different components.

But I'd bet they'll hit at least 30W. Even if they went to 40 or 50, they'd still be considerably under the competition.

Well the Wii U's power brick can take up to 75W, so I'm guessing they'll try to get closer to that.

 

[atbigelow]

Well the Wii U's power brick can take up to 75W, so I'm guessing they'll try to get closer to that.

Sure, but the actual system itself never draws anywhere close to that.

 

[MuchoMalo]

Alright, so based on my calculations, if the chip is based on a Pascal-Tegra and the console uses 20W like the Shield TV while the handheld focuses on super low power, we should see a 150-200GFLOP handheld and a 700-750GFLOP console. By my calculations comparing AMD and Nvidia, that makes the handheld a good 20% or so faster than Wii U, but the console 10-15% slower than Xbone in the best case. This all matches what we've heard. If Nintendo were to bump up the console's power consumption to 30W, it would compete with or even beat PS4. So, performance obviously wasn't even a consideration for Nintendo if they weren't able to match PS4. Still, that sounds like one juicy handheld.

You also need to remember that, thanks to one of our own (who was Bish-approved), we know that the NX Console should be able to handle PS4 & XB1 games no problem. This pretty much means that the NX Console should be within the base PS4 & XB1's ballpark (I.E. around 1+ TFLOPs).

So, my calculations were completely wrong. It needs to be around 1.1TF to match Xbone. So, let's put an ideal scenario at this:

Console: 512 CUDA cores at 1.2GHz (1.2TF), 30W for console overall

Handheld: 256 CUDA cores at 400MHz (TFW 205 GF), ~4W for handheld (same as N3DSXL)

I'm gonna guess that Nintendo won't make the NX console use less power than the Wii U. Wii U gobbles up 32W. No telling how that all factors into the different components.

But I'd bet they'll hit at least 30W. Even if they went to 40 or 50, they'd still be considerably under the competition.

20W would be a spot-on match for Wii. The cold also make it the size of one DVD case. In other words, the true Wii 2!

 

[Lonely1]

How much would something like that cost, though?

It would be more a function of the battery life and/or size of the device.

 

[Pokemaniac]

I suspect a few things, here:

1 – The handheld won’t be backwards compatible. The DS line still sells well, and having a cheaper alternative on the market would be beneficial without cutting into its possible user base. Nintendo would also, quite likely, want to keep the NX property (whatever it ends up being called) separate for marketing identity. Some DS titles could still be ‘emulated’ via the N-Store, which would be far more practical from a costs and long term point of view.

2 – If this is the case, I also think that NX handheld won’t have two screens; again, giving it a stronger physical identity away from the DS line. Clamshell isn’t out of the question, but I think we’re either looking at a single screen device or something which sits in the second/lower part of the handheld, rather than another screen per se. Nintendo does like to make physically durable handhelds due to its generally younger demographic, so some form of screen protection is possible.

3 – Zelda U has to be a title which plays on the handheld if there’s a shared library. The whole marketing messaging behind having a handheld and home console play the same titles would be hugely diluted if a big killer app like Zelda wasn’t part of it. In theory, most first party titles should fall within this sphere, but having a Zelda launch game that only works on one half of a shared platform would be a marketing pitfall and severely hamper the messaging. Again, given the mooted specs of the handheld, it should be a cross playable title from the off.

There is really little reason not to include 3DS BC. Aside from a handful of more exotic GPU features, there should be no real technical barrier to including it.

Are there any hints that the QoL device still exist? I haven't heard anything in a while. At this point, I thought it was just an idea Iwata had that was left in the dust after other people took the reigns of Nintendo.

It's been delayed, but it has been mentioned in recent investor briefings.

 

[Skittzo0413]

It's been delayed, but it has been mentioned in recent investor briefings.

I think they said it was on hold "indefinitely" which could mean they've nixed it. And I agree with you that the free-form display was likely for that QoL sleep sensor. Diagrams of the sleep sensor showed it to be a cylindrical device, so having a screen on the exterior of that would certainly fit with the "donut-shaped" screen report we've heard.

Even if that wasn't the purpose of those free-form displays, I seriously doubt we're getting any of that in the NX. It just seems to pricey with very little in the way of benefits, unless they're trying to make a better VR helmet screen or something else wacky.

Off topic- but I actually envisioned a Metroid-branded VR NX machine, which includes a free-form visor and an arm-cannon like Power Glove controller. Obviously there's no way in hell that is what they come up with, but wouldn't it be a really cool new way to play?

 

[Jackano]

I suspect a few things, here:

1 – The handheld won’t be backwards compatible. The DS line still sells well, and having a cheaper alternative on the market would be beneficial without cutting into its possible user base. Nintendo would also, quite likely, want to keep the NX property (whatever it ends up being called) separate for marketing identity. Some DS titles could still be ‘emulated’ via the N-Store, which would be far more practical from a costs and long term point of view.

2 – If this is the case, I also think that NX handheld won’t have two screens; again, giving it a stronger physical identity away from the DS line. Clamshell isn’t out of the question, but I think we’re either looking at a single screen device or something which sits in the second/lower part of the handheld, rather than another screen per se. Nintendo does like to make physically durable handhelds due to its generally younger demographic, so some form of screen protection is possible.

3 – Zelda U has to be a title which plays on the handheld if there’s a shared library. The whole marketing messaging behind having a handheld and home console play the same titles would be hugely diluted if a big killer app like Zelda wasn’t part of it. In theory, most first party titles should fall within this sphere, but having a Zelda launch game that only works on one half of a shared platform would be a marketing pitfall and severely hamper the messaging. Again, given the mooted specs of the handheld, it should be a cross playable title from the off.

I don't have a fixed opinion on 1/. If it's possible, they will keep 3DS BC. But not at the cost of having 3DS hardware inside the new handheld, and similar architecture with NX home remains the first priority when designing the handheld.

But on 2 and 3 I think you don't understand Nintendo at all. Games & gameplay are first:

2 - Like I already posted on gaf several times, dual screens gameplay has proved itself since the DS days. All their recent back catalog is relaying to it, starting by their handhelds. It's not because leveraging it with the Wii U has failed that they will skip it, especially for "giving it a stronger physical identity away from the DS line".

3 - Zelda UNX is a special case. And one that absolutely not enter in NX handheld plan, especially if you think the handheld will be single screen.
Zelda UNX is Aonuma's open-world, making use of the gamepad. So it needs a big screen to be enjoyed, and it needs a second screen.
They havn't spent time to enhance Twilight Princess on Wii, just what it needed to make use of Wii's gimmick.
I don't expect them to take the time to scale the game down, and take out all the sub-screen functionalities to make it OK for NX handheld. If they do this, expect it to be an awful inferior version.

 

[atbigelow]

3 - Zelda UNX is a special case. And one that absolutely not enter in NX handheld plan, especially if you think the handheld will be single screen.
Zelda UNX is Aonuma's open-world, making use of the gamepad. So it needs a big screen to be enjoyed, and it needs a second screen.
They havn't spent time to enhance Twilight Princess on Wii, just what it needed to make use of Wii's gimmick.
I don't expect them to take the time to scale the game down, and take out all the sub-screen functionalities to make it OK for NX handheld. If they do this, expect it to be an awful inferior version.

I think if the shared-library is something Nintendo wants to drive home and show how it's possible, Zelda UNX would be an amazing poster child for it. Nintendo has zero problems with putting massive worlds into handheld games (OOT3D, MM3D, Xenoblade, etc.).

If the NX handheld is equivalent to the Wii U in power (which many are expecting), the performance is there for Zelda UNX to be on the handheld. It's the perfect example of shared library.

 

[Enduin]

I think if the shared-library is something Nintendo wants to drive home and show how it's possible, Zelda UNX would be an amazing poster child for it. Nintendo has zero problems with putting massive worlds into handheld games (OOT3D, MM3D, Xenoblade, etc.).

If the NX handheld is equivalent to the Wii U in power (which many are expecting), the performance is there for Zelda UNX to be on the handheld. It's the perfect example of shared library.

They're also very protective of the major IPs. So unless it's flawless I don't see them cutting corners or holding back the title simply to make it fit and work on the handheld. If it worked that would be great, but if it can't I don't think Nintendo would try and force it at all.

 

[atbigelow]

They're also very protective of the major IPs. So unless it's flawless I don't see them cutting corners or holding back the title simply to make it fit and work on the handheld. If it worked that would be great, but if it can't I don't think Nintendo would try and force it at all.

Oh I mostly agree. And it's definitely hinged on theory anyway; we don't know if a shared library is actually in the cards.

My point was more that if it is, they need a great example of How to Do It Right©. People will pay attention if Nintendo hits that goal with Zelda.

 

[Roo]

To some extent I agree with atbigelow.
We know the scope of Zelda U/NX is huge but if they somehow managed to get the game running on the handheld without many compromises, it would speak more about how great the scalability between both platforms (talking about NX console and handheld) is, enticing more first and third party developers to give a chance to the shares library concept.

 

[dampflokfreund]

Guys, just on a side note. Would it be possible that a custom Pascal Tegra chip would perform on Xbox One level in a handheld? I mean, Pascal is even more efficient than Maxwell, so it would be a possibility?

 

[Thraktor]

I don't have a fixed opinion on 1/. If it's possible, they will keep 3DS BC. But not at the cost of having 3DS hardware inside the new handheld, and similar architecture with NX home remains the first priority when designing the handheld.

But on 2 and 3 I think you don't understand Nintendo at all. Games & gameplay are first:

2 - Like I already posted on gaf several times, dual screens gameplay has proved itself since the DS days. All their recent back catalog is relaying to it, starting by their handhelds. It's not because leveraging it with the Wii U has failed that they will skip it, especially for "giving it a stronger physical identity away from the DS line".

3 - Zelda UNX is a special case. And one that absolutely not enter in NX handheld plan, especially if you think the handheld will be single screen.
Zelda UNX is Aonuma's open-world, making use of the gamepad. So it needs a big screen to be enjoyed, and it needs a second screen.
They havn't spent time to enhance Twilight Princess on Wii, just what it needed to make use of Wii's gimmick.
I don't expect them to take the time to scale the game down, and take out all the sub-screen functionalities to make it OK for NX handheld. If they do this, expect it to be an awful inferior version.

I don't think Nintendo makes any meaningful distinction between "big screen" home console games and "small screen" handheld games any more. Games like Mario Kart 7 and Mario Kart 8 or 3D Land and 3D World being developed by the same teams in the same style are a good indicator on this, and they've released many console ports on the 3DS over the course of its existence, including two very successful 3D Zelda ports. They even brought Xenoblade to the 3DS, which has to be their biggest series in terms of scope (even more so than Zelda). And finally, the fact that they've talked publicly about making home console and handhelds "brothers" in a iOS style family of systems, and that we're even having a discussion about them sharing a library between their two systems, is a fairly clear indication that they don't believe that there's such a thing as a "big screen" game.

Aside from that, in the hypothetical scenario where they used a downclocked TX1 (or even a downclocked TK1) in the NX handheld with a 480p/540p screen, they'd actually have to scale up the game for the portable NX's hardware, not scale it down.

Guys, just on a side note. Would it be possible that a custom Pascal Tegra chip would perform on Xbox One level in a handheld? I mean, Pascal is even more efficient than Maxwell, so it would be a possibility?

No. In theory you could get something approximating Xbox One visuals at 480p or so, but not actually the performance of the XBO itself.

 

[Neoxon]

Guys, just on a side note. Would it be possible that a custom Pascal Tegra chip would perform on Xbox One level in a handheld? I mean, Pascal is even more efficient than Maxwell, so it would be a possibility?

Wouldn't it still have to be under-clocked for battery purposes?

 

[cbrotherson]

But on 2 and 3 I think you don't understand Nintendo at all. Games & gameplay are first:

2 - Like I already posted on gaf several times, dual screens gameplay has proved itself since the DS days. All their recent back catalog is relaying to it, starting by their handhelds. It's not because leveraging it with the Wii U has failed that they will skip it, especially for "giving it a stronger physical identity away from the DS line".

3 - Zelda UNX is a special case. And one that absolutely not enter in NX handheld plan, especially if you think the handheld will be single screen.
Zelda UNX is Aonuma's open-world, making use of the gamepad. So it needs a big screen to be enjoyed, and it needs a second screen.
They havn't spent time to enhance Twilight Princess on Wii, just what it needed to make use of Wii's gimmick.
I don't expect them to take the time to scale the game down, and take out all the sub-screen functionalities to make it OK for NX handheld. If they do this, expect it to be an awful inferior version.

Hmm - I can see where you're coming from but I think it's dangerous to think anyone outside of Nintendo truly "understands" Nintendo. Especially when the company is going through its largest identity change in a long time.

I've worked both with and against the company over the years and the one thing which had remained constant had been it's unpredictability. Gameplay is paramount for it until it isn't, USPs and gimmicks are essential until they're not, time is expendable until it's forced into decisions that go against the 'Ninteno ethos'.

I'm intrigued to see how the above works out either way - even if it's just from a marketing perspective.

 

[Mr Swine]

Is it more probable that Nintendo makes a handheld as powerful as Wii U but runs at 480-540p and capable of Xbox One type visuals or something weaker, closer to Vita at 480-540p but gets visuals on par on Wii U

 

[charsace]

I feel like Nintendo can kick the power use up on a handheld to like 15w.

 

[Turrican3]

Zelda UNX is Aonuma's open-world, making use of the gamepad. So it needs a big screen to be enjoyed, and it needs a second screen.

I am 99.9% confident Zelda will work (or, let's say Nintendo will make it work) on both NX home and portable.

The whole point of artificially delaying the game so that it can boost NX sales would be nullified otherwise. So would the idea of having an - at the very least - partly shared software ecosystem, even if it should be noted they actually haven't ever stated anything yet about this (they've just mentioned the pros from a developer's perspective, which of course does *not* imply cross-buy/play)

Not to mention that for all we know, they could well have axed any extra gamepad functionality, or just have adapted them to a single screen use case.

Basically, this is really Twilight Princess all over again, and I can't really see Nintendo NOT exploiting this unique opportunity.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Yeah the Zelda gamepad argument is a little absurd as we have to invent our own imaginary mechanics to explain why it would or wouldn't work without dual screens. Might it require a touch screen? Sure, but if it's for scribbling notes in a magic journal then it mght not need a second simultaneous tv screen.

I feel like Nintendo can kick the power use up on a handheld to like 15w.

If it was the size of the Wii U gamepad then I guess it could be.

 

[Jackano]

I am 99.9% confident Zelda will work (or, let's say Nintendo will make it work) on both NX home and portable.

The whole point of artificially delaying the game so that it can boost NX sales would be nullified otherwise. So would the idea of having an - at the very least - partly shared software ecosystem, even if it should be noted they actually haven't ever stated anything yet about this (they've just mentioned the pros from a developer's perspective, which of course does *not* imply cross-buy/play)

Not to mention that for all we know, they could well have axed any extra gamepad functionality, or just have adapted them to a single screen use case.

Basically, this is really Twilight Princess all over again, and I can't really see Nintendo NOT exploiting this unique opportunity.

I'm surprised I got several reactions over this. It seems many of you actually think Zelda U will also get the handheld release. Well, I hear you and your points, still, I'm not convinced.

The game is already going through one porting process, the handheld is presumably far away and I don't want to believe they will spend (again) more time to downport it to NX handheld instead of going full force to the next game. And yes, I'm aware of the same new architecture etc. That game can't possibly stay in development further into 2016.

The NX handheld/Wii U power talk is way too much speculative so I won't go there.
And come on, OoT3D/MM3D are part of the usual process of taking a decade to see console games ported to handheld. Xenoblade is for new 3DS only, and took a serious hit in the process.

 

[LegendofLex]

I am 99.9% confident Zelda will work (or, let's say Nintendo will make it work) on both NX home and portable.

The whole point of artificially delaying the game so that it can boost NX sales would be nullified otherwise.

Unless the NX handheld isn't coming out in March.

 

[Schnozberry]

I feel like Nintendo can kick the power use up on a handheld to like 15w.

As long as you're willing to line your clothing with batteries this shouldn't be a problem.

 

[ozfunghi]

Is it more probable that Nintendo makes a handheld as powerful as Wii U but runs at 480-540p and capable of Xbox One type visuals or something weaker, closer to Vita at 480-540p but gets visuals on par on Wii U

If they are in bed with Nvidia, all the older Nvidia Tegra chips are no good. Logically speaking the X1 is the most suitable chip that Nvidia has ready. It's not only their most powerful, but also their most energy efficient chip. That chip can push half a terraflop. But likely they would want to downclock it some more, maybe trim it a bit to improve battery life. But still that would mean it would be able to outperform the WiiU GPU (both in raw power as in feature set). So as Thraktor said a couple of posts above, XBO visuals at such a resolution might not be far off, but that doesn't mean it will match overall performance of the XBO.

On the other hand, you never know with Nintendo. Four years ago people said they couldn't imagine Nintendo going with a console that was as weak as the WiiU turned out to be few months later.

 

[Turrican3]

The NX handheld/Wii U power talk is way too much speculative so I won't go there.

But we have to. ^__^

I mean, you seem fairly confident that Zelda NX portable is going to be a downport, but the reality is, we don't really know yet.

On the other hand, if we suppose NX portable is going to be at least comparable to WiiU the scenario changes completely: we'd probably end up having two versions more or less on par (WiiU and NX portable) and one with slight improvements (NX home, and that's in the worst case scenario where there isn't a huge gap between that and the portable, or even if there actually is one, Nintendo isn't willing to invest in the extra power available, which might even be understandable... again, as I said it's shaping up to be a Twilight Princess again)

 

[atbigelow]

I'm surprised I got several reactions over this. It seems many of you actually think Zelda U will also get the handheld release. Well, I hear you and your points, still, I'm not convinced.

The game is already going through one porting process, the handheld is presumably far away and I don't want to believe they will spend (again) more time to downport it to NX handheld instead of going full force to the next game. And yes, I'm aware of the same new architecture etc. That game can't possibly stay in development further into 2016.

The NX handheld/Wii U power talk is way too much speculative so I won't go there.
And come on, OoT3D/MM3D are part of the usual process of taking a decade to see console games ported to handheld. Xenoblade is for new 3DS only, and took a serious hit in the process.

The reactions are predicated on the existence of a shared library, not shared architecture. If they are trying to show how adaptable and easy it is to release a game on the platform, they need examples of it. There won't be a porting process from the NX console to the NX handheld. That's supposed to be the point.

 

[KAL2006]

The big question in hand is it technically possible to have a Handheld that's powerful enough to run an open world game like Zelda on a 480p screen (4x 3DS resolution) with decent battery life and decent size that doesnt get hot that can retail for $200.

Anyone with good technical knowledge can answer my question

 

[Turrican3]

Unless the NX handheld isn't coming out in March.

I am assuming a simultanous launch, yes (maybe split with the West getting the home and Japan getting the handheld, as many of us have been speculating in the past months).

But I'd argue my point would stand even if NX handheld would launch later: meaning that, if not for Zelda, there should be plenty of titles that should prove if and how effective actually is going to be this brand new unified development strategy that Nintendo has in place.

 

[cbrotherson]

I am 99.9% confident Zelda will work (or, let's say Nintendo will make it work) on both NX home and portable.

The whole point of artificially delaying the game so that it can boost NX sales would be nullified otherwise. So would the idea of having an - at the very least - partly shared software ecosystem, even if it should be noted they actually haven't ever stated anything yet about this (they've just mentioned the pros from a developer's perspective, which of course does *not* imply cross-buy/play)

Not to mention that for all we know, they could well have axed any extra gamepad functionality, or just have adapted them to a single screen use case.

Basically, this is really Twilight Princess all over again, and I can't really see Nintendo NOT exploiting this unique opportunity.

It's curious and quite a compelling situation to mull over, isn't it.

I was a games journo and producer when Super Mario 64 DS was announced - and was very curious how they would transfer the N64's big innovation (analog controls) to a machine which had no analog stick. The use of the touchscreen was a weird and rather unexpected solution. The the fact you had to use a nub attached to the wrist strap was seen as rather strange and symptomatic of Nintendo not having another worthy killer app to replace it at the time.

Not an analogous situation but one of a fair few examples that the company has been willing to sacrifice/compromise 'pure' controls, and what has been considered its gameplay and controls ethic for comparative market necessity (launch). The media was surprised - it wasn't a 'typical Nintendo' move at the time, not for a flagship game involving one of the largest icons in the industry.

Nintendo is willing to make compromises, small and large, for a step up. I'm wondering if any will be made here, especially given the short time left before launch. A Zelda title not fully exploited could be seen as money left on the table.

 

[Jackano]

But we have to. ^__^

I mean, you seem fairly confident that Zelda NX portable is going to be a downport, but the reality is, we don't really know yet.

On the other hand, if we suppose NX portable is going to be at least comparable to WiiU the scenario changes completely: we'd probably end up having two versions more or less on par (WiiU and NX portable) and one with slight improvements (NX home, and that's in the worst case scenario where there isn't a huge gap between that and the portable, or even if there actually is one, Nintendo isn't willing to invest in the extra power available, which might even be understandable... again, as I said it's shaping up to be a Twilight Princess again)

I agree then, that if NX home is a tiny Wii U (which I believe it can at the very best), we can consider Zelda UNX on the handheld. That's the big if of this topic though

It's clearly a Twilight Princess case, as far as NX home is concerned. But NX handheld is one step further. Especially giving that game started development years ago on the Wii U.

The reactions are predicated on the existence of a shared library, not shared architecture. If they are trying to show how adaptable and easy it is to release a game on the platform, they need examples of it. There won't be a porting process from the NX console to the NX handheld. That's supposed to be the point.

Shared library is indeed in everyone's mind, however, I personally think of it more like "shared part of library".
I believe several strong IP/titles should remain exclusive to a form factor, for example Pokémon on the handheld, and mainline Zeldas on home console.
Plus, Zelda UNX is a cross-gen title, that's a second layer who makes the game not that easily eligible for the shared library IMO.

Anyway, I take notice of the consensus, Zelda UNX...NX if handheld is close enough to Wii U

 

[Turrican3]

A Zelda title not fully exploited could be seen as money left on the table.

Absolutely!

I have to add though that I feel the Mario 64 DS example you mention isn't what I expect for Zelda: after all, that was "just" a port of a very old game, as much as iconic it was and still is, for the - arguably - most ambitious Zelda to date I believe there's going to be minor or no compromises at all regarding controls.

 

[KingSnake]

I believe several strong IP/titles should remain exclusive to a form factor, for example Pokémon on the handheld, and mainline Zeldas on home console.

That beats the whole point of shared library. That generates droughts on the system not getting the "exclusive" titles. With no added benefit, really.

 

[michaelius]

To some extent I agree with atbigelow.
We know the scope of Zelda U/NX is huge but if they somehow managed to get the game running on the handheld without many compromises, it would speak more about how great the scalability between both platforms (talking about NX console and handheld) is, enticing more first and third party developers to give a chance to the shares library concept.

It works on Wii U - there should be zero problems running it on modern tablet SOC considering Wii U itself is ps3/x360 power level with 2x ram.

 

[KingSnake]

It works on Wii U - there should be zero problems running it on modern tablet SOC considering Wii U itself is ps3/x360 power level with 2x ram.

Really. If it works past the bottlenecks of Wii U, it should work on a Tegra X1 or Pascal based (with at least as much memory as Wii U) at 480/540p.

 

[Turrican3]

I agree then, that if NX home is a tiny Wii U (which I believe it can at the very best), we can consider Zelda UNX on the handheld. That's the big if of this topic though

Yep, we're still in full-speculation mode, more or less.
(I take rumours for what they are... some are more believable, some other well, not so much... but there's very little we actually know for sure right now)

 

[cbrotherson]

Absolutely!

I have to add though that I feel the Mario 64 DS example you mention isn't what I expect for Zelda: after all, that was "just" a port of a very old game, as much as iconic it was and still is, for the - arguably - most ambitious Zelda to date I believe there's going to be minor or no compromises at all regarding controls.

I would tend to agree - short of having another title in its back pocket (possible) there would be no better core game prospect to convey a shared (part or full) library.

 

[Pokemaniac]

I agree then, that if NX home is a tiny Wii U (which I believe it can at the very best), we can consider Zelda UNX on the handheld. That's the big if of this topic though

It's clearly a Twilight Princess case, as far as NX home is concerned. But NX handheld is one step further. Especially giving that game started development years ago on the Wii U.


Shared library is indeed in everyone's mind, however, I personally think of it more like "shared part of library".
I believe several strong IP/titles should remain exclusive to a form factor, for example Pokémon on the handheld, and mainline Zeldas on home console.
Plus, Zelda UNX is a cross-gen title, that's a second layer who makes the game not that easily eligible for the shared library IMO.

Anyway, I take notice of the consensus, Zelda UNX...NX if handheld is close enough to Wii U

Handheld exclusives outside of stuff like StreetPass Mii Plaza or Denpa Men don't seem very likely. There just aren't many things that are tied that closely to being handheld games.

Console exclusives, on the other hand, will probably be fairly common. Though, Nintendo themselves may not produce a huge amount of them.

 

[Hilarion]

If the NX Portable really is somewhere 12-20(!)x more powerful than a 3DS like some of you have suggested, it'd be very silly of them not to have it be able to natively emulate a 3DS like the Wii U does a Wii and have access to the 3DS' eShop, if not physical backwards compatibility as well (and if the NX Portable uses the same type of cards the 3DS and DS do, physical backwards compatibility makes sense as well). The 3DS' library is absolutely gigantic, and having the vast majority of it available through eShop access would be a huge boon towards a launch library, especially if 3DS games get a uniform price cut (say, to $25 as a maximum and $20 as the regular price, barring some exceptions like Pokemon or whatever which can stay at $40).

I find it hard to believe that the NX Portable will be pushing 200 gigaflops when the 3DS was sub-10, but I guess that's just how mobile tech has changed.

 

[atbigelow]

If the NX Portable really is somewhere 12-20(!)x more powerful than a 3DS like some of you have suggested, it'd be very silly of them not to have it be able to natively emulate a 3DS like the Wii U does a Wii and have access to the 3DS' eShop, if not physical backwards compatibility as well (and if the NX Portable uses the same type of cards the 3DS and DS do, physical backwards compatibility makes sense as well). The 3DS' library is absolutely gigantic, and having the vast majority of it available through eShop access would be a huge boon towards a launch library, especially if 3DS games get a uniform price cut (say, to $25 as a maximum and $20 as the regular price, barring some exceptions like Pokemon or whatever which can stay at $40).

I find it hard to believe that the NX Portable will be pushing 200 gigaflops when the 3DS was sub-10, but I guess that's just how mobile tech has changed.

I'm not expecting it to hit 200, but a bit below that. That's Wii U territory (~180). And with a 540p screen, it'll leave more room processing room than the Wii U did (which is usually 720p).

Also realize the PSV was around 52 GFLOPS. Mobile tech has come a long way even since then.

 

[ozfunghi]

I'm not expecting it to hit 200, but a bit below that. That's Wii U territory (~180). And with a 540p screen, it'll leave more room processing room than the Wii U did (which is usually 720p).

Also realize the PSV was around 52 GFLOPS. Mobile tech has come a long way even since then.

It really depends though. If they're going with the Pascal based Tegra, like one article seemed to suggest, and which would correspond with "industry leading/modern" chips, then in that case i can only assume both performance and power efficiency will be even better than in the Tegra X1 chip, which already reaches 500 Gflops. The X1 was twice as efficient as the K1 before it. If the successor of the X1 is again twice as efficient as the X1, you could in theory be looking at a downclocked 500gflop part but at 1.5W. Maybe such a chip would be too expensive, but that still give a lot of wiggle room between 180 and 500 gflops at handheld power draw level. Keep in mind AMD performance (as in WiiU) per flop is less than Nvidia.

Edit: Thraktor said the X1 clocked at 500MHz only draws 1.5w, i'm assuming the chip still pushes 250Gflops at that speed. If the Pascal based Tegra improves upon that as X1 on K1, you'd be looking at 500Gflops at 1.5W.

PS: i'm not necessarilly expecting it to be that powerful, but it's possible.

 

[MuchoMalo]

I'm not expecting it to hit 200, but a bit below that. That's Wii U territory (~180). And with a 540p screen, it'll leave more room processing room than the Wii U did (which is usually 720p).

Also realize the PSV was around 52 GFLOPS. Mobile tech has come a long way even since then.

It can hit 200 easily while keeping the power consumption similar to 3DS, if not lower, if we're assuming 16nmFF+ Pascal. That shouldn't require a super high price either.

 

[Zil33184]

It really depends though. If they're going with the Pascal based Tegra, like one article seemed to suggest, and which would correspond with "industry leading/modern" chips, then in that case i can only assume both performance and power efficiency will be even better than in the Tegra X1 chip, which already reaches 500 Gflops. The X1 was twice as efficient as the K1 before it. If the successor of the X1 is again twice as efficient as the X1, you could in theory be looking at a downclocked 500gflop part but at 1.5W.

Sorry to burst your bubble but tegra X1 draws 20W while gaming. 500 Gflops at 1.5W is a pipe dream.

 

[NeOak]

Sorry to burst your bubble but tegra X1 draws 20W while gaming. 500 Gflops at 1.5W is a pipe dream.

20W? lol no.

The Jetson TX1 is less than 10W for CPU, and Phoronix managed to get it to 16.2W at max CPU+GPU load http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nvidia-jtx1-perf&num=3.

During the OpenGL tests that were run first is when the Jetson TX1 spiked the highest: 16.2 Watts. However, during the CPU tests the average system power consumption was well below 10 Watts. When there were CUDA tests running, the AC system power draw was about 13 Watts. The overall power draw during all of this benchmarking was 9.1 Watts, which is below NVIDIA's 10 Watt advertisement. When idling, the system power draw was under 5 Watts. It would be really interesting to see some independent power efficiency tests with the Jetson TX1, albeit the lack of USB serial support in its kernel is currently blocking that from happening.

So please stop the BS without sources to back it up.

 

[cartographer]

Sorry to burst your bubble but tegra X1 draws 20W while gaming. 500 Gflops at 1.5W is a pipe dream.

Notice how he is talking about the X1's successor and not the X1.

Now I feel like I've lost for clarifying something in an argument I don't care about.

 

[Zil33184]

20W? lol no.

The Jetson TX1 is less than 10W for CPU, and Phoronix managed to get it to 16.2W at max CPU+GPU load http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nvidia-jtx1-perf&num=3.



So please stop the BS without sources to back it up.

19.4 watts in a gaming benchmark here.

Notice how he is talking about the X1's successor and not the X1.

Now I feel like I've lost for clarifying something in an argument I don't care about.

I already knew that, but he based his claim around tegra x1 drawing 5W while under load when it's actually closer to 20W. Do you seriously think the next tegra is going to be greater than an order of magnitude more power efficient?

 

[cartographer]

19.4 watts in a gaming benchmark here.



I already knew that, but he based his claim around tegra x1 drawing 5W while under load when it's actually closer to 20W. Do you seriously think the next tegra is going to be greater than an order of magnitude more power efficient?

You linked a 4k test, btw. Do you have any links with tests closer to a handheld resolution (sub 720p almost assuredly).

 

[jdstorm]

Guys, just on a side note. Would it be possible that a custom Pascal Tegra chip would perform on Xbox One level in a handheld? I mean, Pascal is even more efficient than Maxwell, so it would be a possibility?

It would be possible sure. The XBO is a few years old and wasn't that special at launch. The real question is could they do that at an acceptable price point with good battery life.
That is possible but very unlikely

 

[v1oz]

How does X1 compare to the graphics cores on the latest iPad Pro/iPhone.

 

[EMT0]

There were rumors that they were going to go with nVidia in the first place for 3DS but they under delivered at that time. Perhaps now they have something worth using for a handheld at the least.

Reason why I figured NVIDIA got shot out of the PS4/Xbone, and why I'm surprised Nintendo bit on their bait. Everything I've heard about NVIDIA's cooperation with console manufacturers has been far from positive in its implications.

 

[blu]

I already knew that, but he based his claim around tegra x1 drawing 5W while under load when it's actually closer to 20W. Do you seriously think the next tegra is going to be greater than an order of magnitude more power efficient?

It won't be. According to this table:

Maxwell's cores * clock / watt is 3072 * 948 / 250, whereas
Pascal's cores * clock / watt is 3584 * 1328 / 300, so

$ echo "scale=4; (3584 * 1328 / 300) / (3072 * 948 / 250)" | bc
1.3619

Apparently the necessity for fp64 functionality (read: corresponding transistors) is highly questionable in a handheld, but unless NV already have a reduced-fp64 version of the design for TP1, I wouldn't expect them to customize the architecture for nintendo to such an extent (read: semi-custom vs completely custom).

You linked a 4k test, btw. Do you have any links with tests closer to a handheld resolution (sub 720p almost assuredly).

It doesn't matter what res the test was under - that's the TDP under the heaviest-registered load of the chip.