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Neil Druckmann interview about the making of Uncharted 4

zsynqx

Member
SPOILERS




Some very interesting info including the story about the sexist focus tester, the use of crates/ladders, what was cut and much more

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture...-nathan-drake-sexism-in-games-20160524?page=7

Even though you worked on the first two Uncharted games, with Uncharted 4 you were taking over a series that was started by Amy Hennig, versus The Last of Us, which is something you and your co-director, Bruce Straley, created. When Naughty Dog asked you and Bruce to direct this game, where did you start?
I knew we didn't want to kill Nathan Drake, or kill any of the main characters, because tonally that felt wrong. Even though I knew in marketing we wanted to do everything we can to make people feel like we might.

The way in for me was creating his home life. We know between each game that at the end of the previous adventure he gets together with Elena. At the beginning of the next one, their relationship has fallen apart. What happened? It's kind of hinted at but never quite answered.

Our interpretation is that, in order to make his marriage work, Nate oversteered and decided to give up the life of adventure.
And the game is certainly about their marriage. But is Rocky about Adrian?
The Feminist Frequency review that I just watched, which I actually really enjoyed, talked about this. I disagree with them. They said they didn't like how Elena was handled in the story. That she becomes an obstacle to Nathan, that's she's this wet blanket, and she's the thing that's holding him back.

My interpretation, or at least our intention, is that she's not. The only thing holding Nate back is Nate.

If anything, Elena is trying to urge him to take this Malaysia job, even though it's illegal. The thing that makes Elena the most upset is that he doesn't include her. That's his biggest flaw in the story, that he ends up lying to her.

I don't believe that you weren't nervous. I do believe that you don't make games for them.
I'm always nervous how a game will be received, how successful we'll be, is it going to make its money back. I guess what I meant is that I know we're going to lose some people. I know there are people on NeoGAF right now complaining about the beginning of this game. Because I read some. They hate how slow it is. They don't believe it's really a game until you get to the end of the auction and you get your gun and you start shooting at people. That, to them, is the game. I'm OK if we lose some of those people. Hopefully they're replaced with other people who are intrigued by the more conscious pacing.

You're surfing the comment forums at NeoGAF right now?
That's my sick obsession. You listen to movie directors in interviews, and they can go sit in a theater and get the reaction of people to their movie. We don't have that experience. Sure, I can invite someone over who hasn't played the game and watch them play, but it's not quite the same. Going on NeoGAF or watching Let's Play videos is how I get to experience the game now, and see what works, what doesn't work, how people interpret the material. That, to me, is part of the payoff of making this game. You have to have thick skin. But it can be quite enjoyable.

I've heard that the game was not always a cover shooter.
For most of its development cycle, the first Uncharted was a brawler slash lock-on shooter. There was no aiming. You had a gun, and you could lock on to enemies and shoot at them. But we thought we could create a game that had that kind of pulp-action feel, where you would just run around without having to worry about moving a second analog stick and aiming.

We tried all these minigames – if I have a lock-on, how do I make aiming challenging? Is it timing based? None of those ideas were fun. And we tried them for many, many, many months.

The first iteration was, OK, only when you take cover, we can let you aim. As soon as we put that in, all of a sudden combat became even more engaging. There was an interesting challenge that wasn't there before.

We built a lot of the game, and a lot of story, and then we were like, "Oh my God, we built a really short game. Let's throw a bunch of combat into every environment." To me, playing it back, I still think it's an awesome achievement, but it's a little overstuffed with combat in waves. I think it kind of ruins what has a really beautiful story underneath it. Maybe "ruins" is a bit harsh. But hampers, a little bit.


Uncharted 4 has a trophy called "Ludonarrative Dissonance" for killing 1,000 people. That's a reference to the criticism that Nathan Drake doesn't respond emotionally to all the killing he does.
I told all the people on the team, "This is my proudest moment, the fact that I came up with this trophy on this project." We were conscious to have fewer fights, but it came more from a desire to have a different kind of pacing than to answer the "ludonarrative dissonance" argument.

Because we don't buy into it. I've been trying to dissect it. Why is it that Uncharted triggers this argument, when Indiana Jones doesn't? Is it the number? It can't be just the number, because Indiana Jones kills more people than a normal person does. A normal person kills zero people. And Indiana Jones kills a dozen, at least, over the course of several movies. What about Star Wars? Han Solo and Luke Skywalker, are they some sort of serial killers? They laugh off having killed some stormtroopers. And in The Force Awakens, we see that a stormtrooper can actually repent for the person he is and come around, and there are actually real people under those helmets.

It's a stylized reality where the conflicts are lighter, where death doesn't have the same weight.

We're not trying to make a statement about Third World mercenaries, or the toll of having killed hundreds of people in your life.

(Much more in the article)
 
Spoilers for chapter
16
...

This one I was kind of bummed about. In the manor, when you're playing with the two kids, they picked up swords off the wall and they pretended to sword fight. And we wanted to use the same mechanic you would then use at the boss fight at the end. We cut that.

I really wish this had made the cut. It would have made the
final boss
encounter that much better.
 

MMaRsu

Banned
Ah good read so far, thanks for posting this. If you're reading this Neil, Uncharted 4 is a masterpiece imo :)
 

Falchion

Member
I agree with him about Elena. She was trying to push him to do some of the things he used to, she didn't want to just chain him to a quiet life.
 
Spoilers for chapter
16
...
Wow. This is exactly something I was going to post as an "I wish they did this". That scene seemed perfect as a set up.

Also, looks like I'm one of those fans that got lost in their decision to tone down the shooting and focus on story and slower pacing. I don't need to shoot somebody every 10 seconds but it really feels like a much different, far less replayable Uncharted, than the others.
 

Venom Fox

Banned
Neil. If your reading this, I'd like to say congrats to you and the team for creating a perfect game. Plot wise. Mechanic wise and character wise.

Best Uncharted ever and a perfect ending to the best PS4 exclusive franchise!

So... after all your partying is done
Please cracking on with TLOU 2. Please :)
 
He doesn't quite write off criticism of the slower parts of the game, but even still: those parts are compounded by how frequent they are and how often they appear back-to-back. rather than being palate cleansers or changes of pace from the action, they're treated as if they're always as substantial as the core gameplay, and outside of an initial playthrough (and sometimes not even with that), it just won't hold up as bein as fun as the action bits. The story didn't require so many consecutive moments like this, nor did it need to be conservative with its combat/set-pieces, especially considering the advancements made to the core gameplay.

Spoilers for chapter
16
...



I really wish this had made the cut. It would have made the
final boss
encounter that much better.
That would've been good.
Just register Neil and post with us. It will be fine.
Do you hate him or something?
 
"Neogaf-My sick obsession" should be a slogan haha.

I like the bit about Neil not getting caught up in people's complaints about the pacing of the game early on.

I thought it was immaculate and was a nice ramp up to the action while giving a lot of character focus into Nate, Sam and Elena.
 

ZeroX03

Banned
Judging by the OT and spoiler thread, quite a few people missed Elena encouraging Nate to take the Malaysian job. Nate acts like a tool, and she calls him out on it, that's not a wet blanket.

Sword fight would've been a positive addition.
 

Curufinwe

Member
There used to be a cooking sequence, where you were actually mixing in ingredients. You could make the food too spicy, and they would have different dialogue, depending on how spicy you made it. That got cut.

hqdefault.jpg
 
Dear Naughty Dog.
I never quite liked any of your games and thought the last of us
was a bit overrated, I finally played uncharted 4, and I really enjoyed the game.
I've always played Japanese games, in fact uncharted 4 is probably the first western developed game I've actually truly enjoyed.

I hope you continue to make games of the pacing and caliber.
For your next game, please look at references like Resident evil 4, Vanquish
I would love for your game to have a similar upgrading system(re4), and great controls like vanquish.

My final wish is that you go visit the last guardian team and give them tips to make the world looks as beautiful as uncharted 4.

Peace out , new fan Dragonzdogma :)
 
I don't understand how Elena's reactions/responses/interactions with Nate can be interpreted as a 'wet blanket'.

She
is upset with him for lying to her over and over. It's not about what he's doing (although that is part of it considering the danger) so much as that he didn't tell her. You think she wouldn't get that he needed to save his brother (who he never even told existed) and that's why he went?

I thought Elena's actions were completely justified and
the ending really ties together that she was never trying to hold him back and if anything is the one pushing to not completely shut off this one side of his life completely.
 
OléGunner;204522592 said:
"Neogaf-My sick obsession" should be a slogan haha.

I like the bit about Neil not getting caught up in people's complaints about the pacing of the game early on.

I thought it was immaculate and was a nice ramp up to the action while giving a lot of character focus into Nate, Sam and Elena.
The game starts and stops after building that momentum throughout the game through. If it was just the first few chapters, anyone who wants to replay the game could just job mo ahead. Instead, the encounter select is now a necessity of one wants to go back for the action. The open arena fights and a couple of the set pieces are better than any of their type in the series, so they're worth it, but even still.

Seems like TLoU managed better pacing with its action while also having an adequate amount of light exploration, in-game character moments and light traversal (though the latter was rarely mixed up in meaningful ways).
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Spoilers for chapter
16
...



I really wish this had made the cut. It would have made the
final boss
encounter that much better.

Agreed. I would have loved for this to be in.

Such a masterpiece regardless. Looking forward to the single player DLC, as much as a full game!
 
On the complaints about pacing/combat. I definitely regret sneaking through most if not all of the encounters the game allowed.

The stealth was fine, but there just wasn't as much intensity.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
On the complaints about pacing/combat. I definitely regret sneaking through most if not all of the encounters the game allowed.

The stealth was fine, but there just wasn't as much intensity.

I'm kind of fine with this. I believe someone compared the older UC games to break neck summer block busters shoving you from one set piece to another whereas UC4 is more like a mini series where things are allowed to breath a lot more and you aren't constantly moving from crazy event to crazy event.
 

Jacob4815

Member
And when the map room starts collapsing, we had this whole sequence where the crane is collapsing into the cave, and you're climbing through the cabin in the crane, and holding as it's rotating and flipping. With production winding down, that was probably the toughest cut, because it was so far along.

That was an interesting set-piece :(
 

monadi

Banned
Oh since he might see this... You called that the final boss fight of the 4th and last game of a series? -_-
 

Vishnu

Member
Weird, I always thought Elena was a great character, one of the few who can put Nathan in check.

And I thought it was great to see how empowered Elena was, and how she is in the lead in the relationship.

If she is not a good female character , who is?
Im really asking, cause as far as I can tell, Nathan wouldn't be anywhere, and most likley dead if it wasnt for Elena
 
They hate how slow it is. They don't believe it's really a game until you get to the end of the auction and you get your gun and you start shooting at people. That, to them, is the game. I'm OK if we lose some of those people. Hopefully they're replaced with other people who are intrigued by the more conscious pacing.
People don't think it's not a game until then, they think it just has bad pacing. It's especially noticeable on replay.
 
Weird, I always thought Elena was a great character, one of the few who can put Nathan in check.

And I thought it was great to see how empowered Elena was, and how she is in the lead in the relationship.

If she is not a good female character , who is?
Im really asking, cause as far as I can tell, Nathan wouldn't be anywhere, and most likley dead if it wasnt for Elena
Preach.
 
I don't understand how Elena's reactions/responses/interactions with Nate can be interpreted as a 'wet blanket'.

She
is upset with him for lying to her over and over. It's not about what he's doing (although that is part of it considering the danger) so much as that he didn't tell her. You think she wouldn't get that he needed to save his brother (who he never even told existed) and that's why he went?

I thought Elena's actions were completely justified and
the ending really ties together that she was never trying to hold him back and if anything is the one pushing to not completely shut off this one side of his life completely.

Yeah it just seems like a complete misreading of the text.
 

CHC

Member
If this kind of quality is any indication of what Glixel will be all about, I'm liking it. Really good interview.
 

fastmower

Member
I don't like some of the choices ND made with UC4 and Neil seems slightly too dismissive of criticism, but overall, the game is fantastic (for a single play-through), as is this interview.
 
Very good read .
The sword part that was cut would have made some people happy .
Since it would have been practice for the last fight .
 

Neiteio

Member
I'm only halfway through UC4 (once DOOM got its hooks in me, UC4 got tabled for the time being), but up to Ch. 12, the pacing has been decent. I appreciate the lighter focus on combat, which makes the game feel more varied overall. And the creative is excellent, i.e. the story and characterization, the stylized reality, etc. But I do wonder if many of these levels won't be a bit tedious on a second play-through. When you already know the story, pushing forward and tapping X to climb stuff in linear fashion for 20 minutes at a time (how Scotland felt) might be a bit tiring. The gameplay in between the combat doesn't seem like it will be engaging enough, mechanically, to compel me onwards once the story is known.

Well, for the most part, anyways. If there are more semi-open levels like Ch. 10, I think I'll find those pretty replayable. Ch. 10 felt a bit less stop and go since it allowed a bit more flexibility in traversal, being a vehicle-based level that relies less on "hitting your marks" (i.e. jumping from point A to point B in rigid fashion).
 

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I agree with his take on ludonarrative dissonance and Uncharted. It just feels as if the entire thing is a cliche talking point that doesn't hold up. And now games writers name-drop Uncharted when talking about the difficulty with balancing narrative and gameplay as if the reference great meaning when it really doesn't.

Though as far as the early Uncharted game design goes I can't help but feel they still came back to that starting with Uncharted 3 and the effort to create a cinematic brawling system. After playing Uncharted 4, I'm not sure how much I like what they're going for. It's generally less janky than Uncharted 3. However it still feels as if if game mechanics are suffering in the name of filmic presentation. I felt TLOU struck a better balance.
 

valkyre

Member
Amazing interview very well done. Amazed that Neil was willing to disclose all that information regarding cut content. But I can see that it was the right thing to leave them off the game.

Very well, hope we get some more interviews like this!
 

Unknown?

Member
Neil, if you're reading this I have a great idea about a game where Drake goes into women's bathrooms and beats up perverts who go in there to get a peek.

OT, the cooking thing that got cut sounds like it would have been eh... Glad it was cut!
 

Dmax3901

Member
Hi Neil!

Uncharted 4 was great, and I didn't play the first 3 when they first came out. You didn't lose me with the start or pacing or whatever, if anything you gained me with this game more than the previous ones. You and the rest of the team keep doing what you do cause it's incredible.

Also just how with the graphics already. Like how.
 
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