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[Banderdash]

Uncharted has some really poor player navigation stuff...
I was wandering around that damn vehicle section looking for wherever I was supposed to be going... and there was a section there where I couldn't reach a handhold and so hung there looking for my next grab point. Naughty Dog offers a hint system that is, no shit, "you can grab onto ledges"...

That's it, not "hey, look over this way", or "press r3 to highlight objective"... or in the car section, when I was trying to drive up the long gentle curve only to be washed away by the rapids at the end, their hint was "try to avoid the rapids". Thanks for that... big freaking help.

Also, Uncharted is still, still, doing that bloody thing where it changes camera direction mid chase... so, where you were running away from the camera, you're now running towards the camera. But, it doesn't flip the input... so, because you're still pushing the stick up, Nathan now turns away and runs toward the obstacle chasing him.
It was bullshit in Uncharted one... it's still bullshit umpteen years later.

Also, what was with the tapping the controller stuff? Are they so in love with the accelerometer in the Dual Shock controllers that they felt the need to include that... no one liked the balance beam in Uncharted one, why would they believe we'd like it now?

 

[Fredrik]

I had the exact same feeling whenever I got something new in Tomb Raider, where I was excited to backtrack and see what new hidden goodies I could find because of the layered exploration/gear progression. Also, the fucking bow is godly.

I agree to this too, it's a Metroidvania feeling with the upgrades, especially in RotTR and if you aim for 100%. I hope they build on this for their next game. I also hope they make the next one a true multiplat, the exclusivity deal made lots of people negative about the game even though it's easily a 9/10, it's a truly great game.

 

[NavyPharaoh]

Didn't play ROTR but I don't believe you the dialogue was worse

And I also wonder how could they make the combat worse, TR 2013 had a fun combat.

Play the game then see if I'm lying. The combat now features input lag, that's how combat is worse. On top of that you're in a room for most combat scenarios. So you're fighting about 9 guys at a time in a room. You have more combat options that u can rarely use. Why? Cause unless using a sniper rifle enemies just try to walk u down. Who has time to craft when every man is just walking towards you firing? Move around and there are so many enemies you just expose yourself to the many firing at you with input lag. Not hard but standing still using a shotgun works most of the time. Where's the fun in that

 

[JayB1920]

Play the game then see if I'm lying. The combat now features input lag, that's how combat is worse. On top of that you're in a room for most combat scenarios. So you're fighting about 9 guys at a time in a room. You have more combat options that u can rarely use. Why? Cause unless using a sniper rifle enemies just try to walk u down. Who has time to craft when every man is just walking towards you firing? Move around and there are so many enemies you just expose yourself to the many firing at you with input lag. Not hard but standing still using a shotgun works most of the time. Where's the fun in that

PC version doesn't have any input lag. Maybe the PS4 version wont either since it want an issue for the DE. For whatever reason the Xbox One version of DE and ROTR did for me.

 

[Tosyn_88]

I think people who prefer tomb raider may have a point.

But why is that whenever I play Uncharted, if I walk into a room, I immediately stop and stare at all the details and story the room is telling, the gorgeous greens and blue waters, it's sunrise and vistas whereas in tombs Raider when I reach a new area I immediately press eagle vision to see what I'm to do???

 

[d00d3n]

I mostly agree, but if I remember correctly, the total explorable map area in either of the TR reboot games is vastly smaller than Uncharted 4. In that sense, it is expected that TR areas are better designed, especially the "hub areas" that you return to several times (that also contain 90% of the multi-layered design that you are talking about). So it is at least partly a matter of scope imo ...

In addition to better traversal and layered maps, I think the TR games really benefit from taking place in single locations. Traversal not only feels better because of the game systems and map design, but the logical transitions between areas are also key. Rise of the Tomb Raider has several awesome moments when you get a vantage point of several of the areas that you are going to visit the next few hours. It is all so wonderfully interconnected in a way that Uncharted 4 doesn't come close to.

 

[pastrami]

Uncharted has some really poor player navigation stuff...
I was wandering around that damn vehicle section looking for wherever I was supposed to be going... and there was a section there where I couldn't reach a handhold and so hung there looking for my next grab point. Naughty Dog offers a hint system that is, no shit, "you can grab onto ledges"...

That's it, not "hey, look over this way", or "press r3 to highlight objective"... or in the car section, when I was trying to drive up the long gentle curve only to be washed away by the rapids at the end, their hint was "try to avoid the rapids". Thanks for that... big freaking help.

I felt the opposite. Even when I didn't know where I was supposed to be going, I felt the level design was good enough that you naturally get to where you need to go, even in some of the larger, more open areas of exploration.

Also, Uncharted is still, still, doing that bloody thing where it changes camera direction mid chase... so, where you were running away from the camera, you're now running towards the camera. But, it doesn't flip the input... so, because you're still pushing the stick up, Nathan now turns away and runs toward the obstacle chasing him.
It was bullshit in Uncharted one... it's still bullshit umpteen years later.

This happens what, twice? Once on the motorcycle, and again when the armored car chases you in

Spoiler

Libertalia

? The first time you have no control of your movement because Sam is driving. The second time, aren't there short cutscenes that play, taking control away for a second and reorienting the camera before handing back controls? At the very least, I didn't have the same issue.

Also, what was with the tapping the controller stuff? Are they so in love with the accelerometer in the Dual Shock controllers that they felt the need to include that... no one liked the balance beam in Uncharted one, why would they believe we'd like it now?

Doesn't this happen only once? When you are in the caves with Elena and your flashlight goes out? I don't recall the prompt ever showing any other time the game used the flashlight. Unlike TLOU where it was a light (no pun intended) game mechanic, I thought it was just a scripted sequence to show your flashlight having issues before dying completely. Correct me if I'm wrong, and just never encountered it in the rest of the game.

As for the OP, can't say I agree. More mechanics doesn't inherently mean a better game. I had a blast with Uncharted 4, but Tomb Raider felt like a slog to get through. Tomb Raider does more things, and maybe even some of the same things better, but it didn't lead to a better game in my opinion.

 

[Don'tBeWeird]

Tomb Raider bored the shit out of me. I don't know if it's Pavlovian conditioning, but I feel sleepy just thinking about it.

I'd say Uncharted 4 is best in class, but I'd be doing UC4 a disservice by saying they're in the same class. They're not. UC4 is actually fun to play.

 

[Waldo Lydecker]

I thought Tomb Raider was mildly enjoyable if you look at the gameplay but the story, characters and dialogue were pretty terrible.

Also UC4:

- is extremely polished and detailed
- has extremely good graphics and sound
- has a great story and dialogues (for a game)

these positives are so extreme that the only problem is that everything you play afterwards feels lackluster and old

 

[brickarts295]

I think people who prefer tomb raider may have a point.

But why is that whenever I play Uncharted, if I walk into a room, I immediately stop and stare at all the details and story the room is telling, the gorgeous greens and blue waters, it's sunrise and vistas whereas in tombs Raider when I reach a new area I immediately press eagle vision to see what I'm to do???

Maybe it's the art direction, it's pretty bland and lacks color. In TR 2013 since the gameplay is the strong point we are only looking at doing the tombs to get that XP and upgrade our weapons. I was literally using eagle vision to find to small crates and collectibles and move on unto the next section.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Retire a series because story and characters are not good? I can't see myself trudging through Uncharted 4 again anytime soon regardless of story/writng/character quality while I still have fun replaying the TR games.

Use the same gameplay concepts for a new IP with actually a good story and characters, stop rebooting and milking the Tomb Raider IP.

Naughty Dog doesn't have to continue with Uncharted because they've already got TLOU.

 

[gamerMan]

I think it really depends on who you are. Casual gamers will love Uncharted's light mechanics as it spoon feeds you through the game. The game can be completed with your eyes closed as the game often insults your intelligence with it's puzzles and gameplay. Can't solve a puzzle, a character will blurt out the answer. Go in the wrong direction, a character will say not that way. Just push a direction and hit the x button and your character will auto complete the traversal sections.

There is not much depth to the gameplay. You are basically repeating the same mechanics over and over. The game feels the same in chapter 2 as Chapter 21. Progression in the game comes with the story with very little progression in the game design.

More hardcore gamers will love Tomb Raider's layered gameplay, but I think that the Uncharted series helped "dumb down" the Tomb Raider series. While the game invites exploration both in its gameplay and puzzle design, you can just use Lara's eagle vision to see where you need to go. It's easy to see that game element has been added because of Uncharted's linearity.

 

[d00d3n]

Threads like this remind me of when your in the OT and someone creates a topic that says - "Why McDonalds is better than every other burger" I mean I know its an opinion but still seems a bit cray to me.

Uncharted is better than TR in every way to such a degree that it seems almost comical to compare them. For me it would be like comparing Dark Sector to Gears or something. TR2013 had the benefit of going against UC3 which has some serious gameplay issues. Going from TRR to UC4 though is a pretty big gulf in quality and not just in the ways that are obvious such as visuals, presentation and story but the gameplay is so much better. Stealth is better, the open-ended nature of the combat is better, the AI is better. Its all just more fun. Not to mention there is this weird deadzone thing that happens with TR which funny enough reminded me of all the controller issues I had with UC3 before it was patched.

The only thing that I remember really liking about TR2013 was that stinking bow. That bow was so awesome.



This definitely works in some areas but I think it really depends on the section. You can't do that for Chapter 3

In what way is stealth better in Uncharted 4 than in Rise of the Tomb Raider? The main weapon in Rise is a stealth weapon. Everybody seems to agree that it feels fantastic to use. Total stealth in Uncharted 4 is accomplished by doing instant melee takedowns. The encounters involve a lot of enemies, and it is likely that you will break stealth due to bad luck before you are done. Rise packages stealth encounters bite sized in a way that is enjoyable, avoids being tiresome and still has decent replayability.

 

[Lys Skygge]

Maybe it's the art direction, it's pretty bland and lacks color. In TR 2013 since the gameplay is the strong point we are only looking at doing the tombs to get that XP and upgrade our weapons. I was literally using eagle vision to find to small crates and collectibles and move on unto the next section.

Speaking of "eagle vision", I really hope we never see anything like that or a minimap in a Naughty Dog game. Same goes for experience points. Crafting is ok when it makes sense (like in TLoU) but it would have felt out of place in a Uncharted game.

I think it really depends on who you are. Casual gamers will love Uncharted's light mechanics as it spoon feeds you through the game. The game can be completed with your eyes closed as the game often insults your intelligence with it's puzzles and gameplay. Can't solve a puzzle, a character will blurt out the answer. Go in the wrong direction, a character will say not that way. Just push a direction and hit the x button and your character will auto complete the traversal sections.

There is not much depth to the gameplay. You are basically repeating the same mechanics over and over. The game feels the same in chapter 2 as Chapter 21. Progression in the game comes with the story with very little progression in the game design.

More hardcore gamers will love Tomb Raider's layered gameplay, but I think that the Uncharted series helped "dumb down" the Tomb Raider series. While the game invites exploration both in its gameplay and puzzle design, you can just use Lara's eagle vision to see where you need to go. It's easy to see that game element has been added because of Uncharted's linearity.

Tomb Raider had no depth. It pretends to have depth, but every mechanic is completely half assed. Its the definition of a game created for casuals who want to feel like they accomplished something by collecting a bunch of numbers for their next upgrade.

The Lara vision wasn't introduced because of Uncharted, it was introduced due to Tomb Raiders shitty level design.

 

[pastrami]

In what way is stealth better in Uncharted 4 than in Rise of the Tomb Raider? The main weapon in Rise is a stealth weapon. Everybody seems to agree that it feels fantastic to use. Total stealth in Uncharted 4 is accomplished by doing instant melee takedowns. The encounters involve a lot of enemies, and it is likely that you will break stealth due to bad luck before you are done. Rise packages stealth encounters bite sized in a way that is enjoyable, avoids being tiresome and still has decent replayability.

Wait, you're telling me that Uncharted 4 stealth is bad because it relies on using stealth to approach and take down enemies at close range. A true stealth game would give you a weapon to take down enemies stealthily from afar, without having to use stealth to approach them? Not quite sure I get this logic. Stealth in Uncharted 4 was superb, and there were several sequences I got through killing minimal numbers of people. And a few where I just stealth killed everyone for fun.

That said, I haven't played ROTTR yet so I can't compare the two, but I don't get the logic that having a ranged stealth weapon leads to a better stealth game.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

In what way is stealth better in Uncharted 4 than in Rise of the Tomb Raider? The main weapon in Rise is a stealth weapon. Everybody seems to agree that it feels fantastic to use. Total stealth in Uncharted 4 is accomplished by doing instant melee takedowns. The encounters involve a lot of enemies, and it is likely that you will break stealth due to bad luck before you are done. Rise packages stealth encounters bite sized in a way that is enjoyable, avoids being tiresome and still has decent replayability.

You might as well give Lara a pistol with a silencer because that's what the bow was, if you want to see a proper bow mechanics see TLOU.

 

[d00d3n]

Wait, you're telling me that Uncharted 4 stealth is bad because it relies on using stealth to approach and take down enemies at close range. A true stealth game would give you a weapon to take down enemies stealthily from afar, without having to use stealth to approach them? Not quite sure I get this logic. Stealth in Uncharted 4 was superb, and there were several sequences I got through killing minimal numbers of people. And a few where I just stealth killed everyone for fun.

That said, I haven't played ROTTR yet so I can't compare the two, but I don't get the logic that having a ranged stealth weapon leads to a better stealth game.

Well, it is an option with trade offs. You lose resources from using the bow, especially if you suck at it. If you miss, enemies get spooked by the sound, and so on. It is an interesting and skill based weapon that complements rather than replaces melee takedowns. Do you honestly mean that the "encounter areas" in Uncharted 4 are better designed for stealth, because of the restriction to melee stealth? I have not seen that in any of the encounters in the game. In my mind, the areas are primarily designed for combat with weapons, with stealth as a bit of an afterthought. The high number of enemies and the high risk of "randomly failing" stealth reinforces this belief.

 

[pastrami]

You might as well give Lara a pistol with a silencer because that's what the bow was, if you want to see a proper bow mechanics see TLOU.

I'll never understand Tomb Raider having the best bow in video games. Unless by bow you mean silenced Gauss cannon from Half-Life. Minus the wall penetration.

Well, it is an option with trade offs. You lose resources from using the bow, especially if you suck at it. If you miss, enemies get spooked by the sound, and so on. It is an interesting and skill based weapon that complements rather than replaces melee takedowns. Do you honestly mean that the "encounter areas" in Uncharted 4 are better designed for stealth, because of the restriction to melee stealth? I have not seen that in any of the encounters in the game. In my mind, the areas are primarily designed for combat with weapons, with stealth as a bit of an afterthought. The high number of enemies and the high risk of "randomly failing" stealth reinforces this belief.

I think many areas in Uncharted 4 are geared towards stealth because the enemies follow very predctable patrol patterns. If you think you are getting "randomly" caught, you are probably not timing the patrols correctly or not accounting for all of them.

I have nothing good or bad to say about ROTTR because I haven't played it. I don't know if Uncharted 4 is a better stealth game. I just don't get the logic that ROTTR is a better stealth game because it has a stealth weapon. The games will be designed around the tools the players are given. In Rise, stealth encounters are presumably designed around what tools the game has given the player (such as the bow). The same way, I feel that Uncharted 4 did a good job designing the stealth around the tools given to the player (mobility).

 

[Mman235]

I think it really depends on who you are. Casual gamers will love Uncharted's light mechanics as it spoon feeds you through the game. The game can be completed with your eyes closed as the game often insults your intelligence with it's puzzles and gameplay. Can't solve a puzzle, a character will blurt out the answer. Go in the wrong direction, a character will say not that way. Just push a direction and hit the x button and your character will auto complete the traversal sections.

There is not much depth to the gameplay. You are basically repeating the same mechanics over and over. The game feels the same in chapter 2 as Chapter 21. Progression in the game comes with the story with very little progression in the game design.

More hardcore gamers will love Tomb Raider's layered gameplay, but I think that the Uncharted series helped "dumb down" the Tomb Raider series. While the game invites exploration both in its gameplay and puzzle design, you can just use Lara's eagle vision to see where you need to go. It's easy to see that game element has been added because of Uncharted's linearity.

Uncharted demands far more out of the player in it's combat (which is the only part in either series now that has any depth). Rise in particular stacks so many ridiculous superpowerers on you with the upgrades that you actively have to try to get killed regardless of difficulty.

Given Tomb Raider: Legend came before Uncharted, the series that dumbed TR down was itself.

I'll never understand Tomb Raider having the best bow in video games. Unless by bow you mean silenced Gauss cannon from Half-Life. Minus the wall penetration.

Yeah, I find the TR bow really fun but I find the "best bow in games" stuff kind of funny because it's not a bow, it's a chargable railgun with a few thematic gimmicks.

 

[nycgamer4ever]

They're impressive in scale and action. I remember jumping off a burning palace onto a helicopter and falling off a mountain down a river past treacherous wooden spikes.

They're not particularly memorable or defining, unlike Uncharted. But they're nothing atrocious IMO.

Herein lies the problem with Tomb Raider vs Uncharted. I played the reboot and will buy ROTTR when it releases on Ps4, used of course because fuck that timed release exclusive bullshit. I spent probably 20 hours to finish the reboot almost 100% but I remember not one single set piece from the game. In fact I don't remember the game at all. I don't remember any of the characters, the story, etc. I do remember I enjoyed the game and the upgrading aspect, which it does better than Uncharted but everything else is not up to Uncharted 4 standard.

 

[twobear]

Herein lies the problem with Tomb Raider vs Uncharted. I played the reboot and will buy ROTTR when it releases on Ps4, used of course because fuck that timed release exclusive bullshit. I spent probably 20 hours to finish the reboot almost 100% but I remember not one single set piece from the game. In fact I don't remember the game at all. I don't remember any of the characters, the story, etc. I do remember I enjoyed the game and the upgrading aspect, which it does better than Uncharted but everything else is not up to Uncharted 4 standard.

if nothing else you must remember the bit where she slides down the stream just because of the hORRIFIC death that happens whenever you hit a spiky pole

 

[Playsage]

I'm still wondering how people can actually say that TR2013's easily breakable combat mechanics and encounters are better than the average Uncharted's...

It's really Delusionville

 

[Brandon F]

Agreed on almost everything said in the OP.

Still have yet to play RoTR, but I would argue that despite both U4 and TR2013 having their unique flaws, I ultimately felt the game design was FAR stronger in Crystal Dynamics effort than Naughty Dog's.

That said, both are uniquely enjoyable, but I look back more fondly on TR2013 than I do U4.

 

[dlauv]

I'm still wondering how people can actually say that TR2013's easily breakable combat mechanics and encounters are better than the average Uncharted's...

It's really Delusionville

What do you mean by "easily breakable?"

 

[Jawbreaker]

if nothing else you must remember the bit where she slides down the stream just because of the hORRIFIC death that happens whenever you hit a spiky pole

Speaking for myself, I only remember this because of Conan's "clueless gamer" segment. It was a pretty brutal death, though.

 

[gamerMan]

Uncharted demands far more out of the player in it's combat (which is the only part in either series now that has any depth)..

It does but then in Uncharted 4 they take it all away with "auto aim." Clearly as it is a default, the game has been designed to appeal to more casual audiences. With the option turned on, you can now blindly shoot at enemies with very little skill involved.

 

[Lys Skygge]

It does but then in Uncharted 4 they take it all away with "auto aim." Clearly as it is a default, the game has been designed to appeal to more casual audiences. With the option turned on, you can now blindly shoot at enemies with very little skill involved.

Its an option that should be available in most games considering it was designed for people with disabilities in mind.

 

[nycgamer4ever]

if nothing else you must remember the bit where she slides down the stream just because of the hORRIFIC death that happens whenever you hit a spiky pole

I remember towards the end there were a lot zip lining and jumping from one zip line to another. I don't know if I would call it a set piece though and i remember thinking this is crazy that she could do this! But there are times in UC games where I think Nate is Spiderman so I guess that's that. LMAO.

 

[Sydle]

I just see them as wanting to accomplish different things and I've found the strengths in each series immensely enjoyable.

You're in for a big treat with Rise of the Tomb Raider, OP.

 

[ghibli99]

It does but then in Uncharted 4 they take it all away with "auto aim." Clearly as it is a default, the game has been designed to appeal to more casual audiences. With the option turned on, you can now blindly shoot at enemies with very little skill involved.

I see your point, but didn't they call it out as an accessibility option for disabled/handicapped players? If it was on by default, that'd be a problem, yes, like Forza defaulting to auto-braking on as a default. The first time I played 4 (I think), I thought, damn, I'm doing really good... until I realized. LOL

 

[Gbraga]

Great write up, OP. I don't think I personally agree, as I lean torwards Uncharted myself, but I definitely agree with most, if not all, of your criticism torwards Uncharted, and how Tomb Raider 2013 does it better.

 

[Superflat]

I agree on some points, but I found TR's exploration to be tiresome and irritating. I feel like the game is deliberately trying to waste my time by littering the place with things to pick up and open. I feel compelled to search out crates, burn obstacles down and climb on arrow rope because they're simply there, but I almost never really found myself actually enjoying any of it.

Uncharted has some open areas with not a lot in them, but they're peppered here and there with banter and small intractable moments which i found more rewarding than a box of experience points or crafting items. TLOU balances it out better than both U4 and TR imo.

 

[Gbraga]

TLOU balances it out better than both U4 and TR imo.

Absolutely.

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

OP makes a lot of valid points. I can't play Rise until it releases later on PS4, but in terms of fun I have the following ranking (note that this is purely a measurement of how fun I find these to play,and replay.)

UC3 > UC2 > TR13 = UC1 >>>UC4.

 

[Playsage]

What do you mean by "easily breakable?"

After a couple of "level" ups you can access to the melee counterattack (which can be upgraded to an instakill) and the sand attack, (which affects every type of enemy) both of which can get you an invincible instakill making melee combat a fuckin' joke (the last big encounter with samurais on towers? Let the melee ones follow you on a safe place and use dodge (which is super forgiving) and attack in succession... you just eliminated the "biggest" threat in the game)
Gun upgrades are almost as bullshit OP, with the pistol being stupidly good from the start... Armored people aren't even that special due to an upgraded bow being able to one hit kill anything (EVEN THE BOSS ON THE SHIP.)
Then explosives and the shotgun are stupidly weak, to the point that a pistol single shot is more effettive on killing an enemy than both (that also mean that enemy fire grenades are just there to annoy instead of trying to kill you).
Then the encounters are for most part based on waves except for when they are set on a "platforming path" and TR easily plays more like a cover shooter on the most crowded ones in comparison to Straley's Uncharted (it helps that Drake feels faster in traversing the battlefield)

 

[Fancy Clown]

It does but then in Uncharted 4 they take it all away with "auto aim." Clearly as it is a default, the game has been designed to appeal to more casual audiences. With the option turned on, you can now blindly shoot at enemies with very little skill involved.

It's not the default setting unless you pick explorer which is for people who don't want any challenge at all. The game was designed around manual aim.

 

[xxracerxx]

It does but then in Uncharted 4 they take it all away with "auto aim." Clearly as it is a default, the game has been designed to appeal to more casual audiences. With the option turned on, you can now blindly shoot at enemies with very little skill involved.

Auto-aim wasn't enabled when I started my playthrough....did you play the game on Explorer mode or something?

 

[pastrami]

I agree on some points, but I found TR's exploration to be tiresome and irritating. I feel like the game is deliberately trying to waste my time by littering the place with things to pick up and open. I feel compelled to search out crates, burn obstacles down and climb on arrow rope because they're simply there, but I almost never really found myself actually enjoying any of it.

Uncharted has some open areas with not a lot in them, but they're peppered here and there with banter and small intractable moments which i found more rewarding than a box of experience points or crafting items. TLOU balances it out better than both U4 and TR imo.

To add a little to this, I find the lack of notable gameplay mechanisms found through exploring very refreshing. Let's take a game I love as an example. Deus Ex rewards you for exploring every nook and cranny by showering you with items, resources, abilities, and experience (you get experience for exploring certain areas). So the optimal way to play the game is to, well, explore every nook and cranny. Even after I stealth through an area, the first thing I do when I reach the goal is to turn around, kill everyone on the map to get their items, and explore everything to get every resource, item and all the experience I can get.

The first time I stealthed through an area in Uncharted 4, I caught myself turning around in case I missed something. I had been conditioned from other games that this was the optimal way to play. Instead, I thought for a second, realized that there was nothing game affecting I could have missed, and went on my merry way. It was very refreshing to not have that urge to turn around to fully do everything in an area before moving on.

 

[The Lamp]

Speaking of "eagle vision", I really hope we never see anything like that or a minimap in a Naughty Dog game. Same goes for experience points. Crafting is ok when it makes sense (like in TLoU) but it would have felt out of place in a Uncharted game.



Tomb Raider had no depth. It pretends to have depth, but every mechanic is completely half assed. Its the definition of a game created for casuals who want to feel like they accomplished something by collecting a bunch of numbers for their next upgrade.

The Lara vision wasn't introduced because of Uncharted, it was introduced due to Tomb Raiders shitty level design.

Yeah, nope. The rope arrow, fire arrow, pick axe and other puzzle solving/traversal items are not "half-assed," they are constantly used and expanded in scope and utility.

 

[Lys Skygge]

Auto-aim wasn't enabled when I started my playthrough....did you play the game on Explorer mode or something?

He must have, because auto-aim as default on any other difficulty is 100% wrong. It would explain why he thinks the game can be played blindfolded.

Yeah, nope. The rope arrow, fire arrow, pick axe and other puzzle solving/traversal items are not "half-assed," they are constantly used and expanded in scope and utility.

They were half assed. At least on Uncharted whenever you needed to use the rope, you have full control of it. With Tomb Raider you basically shoot a rope and push a button to swing, pull, whatever. Uncharteds traversal might not have a lot of depth mechanically, but at least it doesn't pretend to. And the rope in Uncharted is a lot more satisfying to use than in Tomb Raider.

 

[Coolbgdog12]

It does but then in Uncharted 4 they take it all away with "auto aim." Clearly as it is a default, the game has been designed to appeal to more casual audiences. With the option turned on, you can now blindly shoot at enemies with very little skill involved.

UC4 didn't have any default auto aim on unless you played on explorer mode. It being an option is no way some sort of crutch as it doesn't apply to other modes.

ROTR is the most laziest and easier game 've played in forever. It's so bland and easy you don't even need to upgrade or use anything other than a bow and arrow or pistol.

 

[pastrami]

He must have, because auto-aim as default on any other difficulty is 100% wrong. It would explain why he thinks the game can be played blindfolded.

Which is weird because he had just stated that casuals like Uncharted, and hardcore gamers like Tomb Raider. You would think a hardcore gamer would play on something harder than the easiest difficulty level in the game.

 

[CrazyDude]

Yeah, nope. The rope arrow, fire arrow, pick axe and other puzzle solving/traversal items are not "half-assed," they are constantly used and expanded in scope and utility.

It being constantly used doesn't make any less half-ased. If anything it makes it all the more worse. They are not implemented well at all.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Hardcore gamers like xp bars, lots of collectables, and eagle vision to point them in the right direction so they can do some hardcore physics puzzles

 

[SolidSnakex]

He must have, because auto-aim as default on any other difficulty is 100% wrong. It would explain why he thinks the game can be played blindfolded.

I don't see a problem with it being on by default in Explorer. The entire point of that mode is to make the game as easy as possible for those that just want to enjoy the adventure and story.

 

[psynergylover]

I liked TR but I thought it tried to copy too much from uncharted; it seems nearly everything Laura step on broke, exploded, or crumbled under her feet! Like damn, can't a sista walk in in peace!

 

[The Lamp]

It being constantly used doesn't make any less half-ased. If anything it makes it all the more worse. They are not implemented well at all.

I don't see your statement as being defensible.

Having a puzzle where I have to shoot natural gas seeping from the ground with an arrow lit by a lighter so that it can blaze some obstacles and shift the weight of a platform that allows me to access a new area, or using a rope to pull open window blinds to adjust the wind and then use the rope to ring a bell with enough force to collapse the floor are not half-assed or badly implemented puzzle mechanics compared to any mindless traversal puzzle in Uncharted where you push a crate.

 

[Lys Skygge]

I don't see a problem with it being on by default in Explorer. The entire point of that mode is to make the game as easy as possible for those that just want to enjoy the adventure and story.

I agree that theres nothing wrong with it. It's that gamerfan is spreading misinformation that auto-aim is presumably on by default in any other mode, unless he only played the game on Explorer Mode, in which case him saying that "Uncharted is made for casuals" and "can be beaten while blindfolded" is straight up shit posting considering he might have played the game on the easiest mode.

 

[The Lamp]

I liked TR but I thought it tried to copy too much from uncharted; it seems nearly everything Laura step on broke, exploded, or crumbled under her feet! Like damn, can't a sista walk in in peace!

Yeah but Uncharted 4 lifted the rope and piton straight from Tomb Raider so it all the copying works out I guess.

 

[TheAssist]

2 games for 2 different types of players.

I love story and characters. TR has non of that. Its boring, has bad pacing and i cant remember a single character except lara. Who is boring.

I hate collecting stuff in games, I hate crafting. To me, these things take away and dont add anything. Other than useless hours spend in a mediocre game world.

I mean dont get me wrong. These mechanics can work in certain games, but for me a TPS is not that kind of game.

Uncharted on the other hand gave me that feeling of an actual adventure with a crew. It was pure wish fulfillment. Focused on the essentials. How would driving through Madagascar and stopping every 30 seconds to look for stuff have any positive impact on the game?
Would it benefit immersion? Story? Atmosphere? Pacing? Gameplay?
Probably not.

I dont want a shit pistol in the beginning that gets less shit, depending on how much time I want to invest on collecting things. I want a pistol that works.

So for me, Tomb Raider is a bad game. Didnt have any fun with it. Uncharted was a blast.

But.

I can totally understand how someone would see it the completely opposite way.
For other people cutscenes are a waste of their time. For me its essential for character and worldbuilding. For giving context to my actions.

Some people just like collecting and looking behind every rock in a game. It fulfills them in the way a well written dialogue fulfills me.
I think its stupid to say TR should have more of this thing and Uncharted should have more of the other thing.
Crafting doesnt belong in an Uncharted game just like minute long walking simulations dont belong in TR.

We have those 2 great franchises and each serves a different audience. And alot of people do actually enjoy both.

Spoiler

Spoiler

But not me goddamitsoangryatopforhatingonuncharted

!!