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[ElFly]

He is good. He's touring and playing arenas and large theaters right now. You can't get much better than that as a stand up. Having one person get mad at something he says every few shows doesn't mean there is an issue with his act.

Then I don't see the problem with this whole situation?

Offended people get to say their mind, comedian is paid (hopefully big amounts of) money for his tour.

This is the problem with people on your side of the argument. You immediately assume that being offended can't be irrational, and that any one who is offended is logically and emotionally right in doing so. Even if the majority of other people in that group who the joke is about find it funny and find the offended person to be irrational in their emotions as well.

Ok sure.

But this argument assumes that, if there are irrational people offended for irrational reasons, there must also exist people who are being offended, and their right to stand up and tell the comedian to fuck off should not be denied in the name of "politeness".

It's also really odd that if something offends you, that you would want to stay at the show and continue watching it. The reasonable thing to do if you don't like what some one is saying is to leave the show. Usually, it's because these people have been laughing at jokes that would clearly offend another group of people, but find those jokes to be perfectly fine and only get offended when they take something seriously because it relates to them.

The reasonable thing for you who are not being offended.

Offended people should not renounce their right to defend themselves in the name of politeness.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Then I don't see the problem with this whole situation?

Offended people get to say their mind, comedian is paid (hopefully big amounts of) money for his tour.



Ok sure.

But this argument assumes that there exist people who are being offended, and their right to stand up and tell the comedian to fuck off should not be denied in the name of "politeness".



The reasonable thing for you who are not being offended.

Offended people should not renounce their right to defend themselves in the name of politeness.

Maybe those people should do some research about what they're going to see before they go and get offended. Comedy is the only form of live media where people think it's fine to go see someone they have no idea about and then interrupt what's happening because they don't like what they see.

 

[deli2000]

Considering many comedians complain about this, from ones who play arenas to ones who play Universities and shitty night clubs, I fail to see how your anecdotal experience means much compared to that. I don't think all of those people are just making this up.

How is their experience any less anecdotal than mine? Because they're more famous? In that case they have even less of an idea about this problem than people working in the amateur scene. I don't get why you're attacking my argument for anecdotal evidence when the entire anti outrage culture argument is based on anecdotal evidence.

Maybe those people should do some research about what they're going to see before they go and get offended. Comedy is the only form of live media where people think it's fine to go see someone they have no idea about and then interrupt what's happening because they don't like what they see.

You're still complaining about heckling. What does that have to with outrage culture more than people just being loud dicks?

 

[Rentahamster]

think Colbert showed humility in his response. Regardless of the number of people on his side, I wouldn't have really been a fan of him taking a stance along the lines of "I'm not going to apologize because some slack jawed idiots don't understand how comedy works!"

Colbert apologized? I thought he didn't apologize? I thought he made a segment the next day mocking them for not getting the joke? Or am I remembering this wrong?

 

[Zen_Arcade]

How is their experience any less anecdotal than mine? Because they're more famous? In that case they have even less of an idea about this problem than people working in the amateur scene. I don't get why you're attacking my argument for anecdotal evidence when the entire anti outrage culture argument is based on anecdotal evidence.

Because they collectively have said the same things even though they're not related in any way? Because I've seen enough videos/tweets on the internet of people heckling a comedian over a nothing joke to see what they're talking about when they claim these things?

As for your second quote, the reason these people are being loud dicks is because they're offended. They're absolutely related. If they weren't offended they wouldn't be up heckling in the first place.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Colbert apologized? I thought he didn't apologize? I thought he made a segment the next day mocking them for not getting the joke? Or am I remembering this wrong?

I may be remembering the sequence of events wrong. And he may have never actually apologized. I'll look in a minute. I do remember him issuing a statement that called for Colbert fans to stop going after the #CancelColbert person, though. But maybe that was well after the fact?

 

[ExVicis]

Minorities would never be able to stand up and say "hey this offends me" and should be "polite" and be laughed at.

Are they a minority because they're a smaller demographic? Or are they a minority because they're the only one in a crowd of maybe a thousand? In the case of the later does that person have the right to stop the show at their whim?

 

[ElFly]

Maybe those people should do some research about what they're going to see before they go and get offended. Comedy is the only form of live media where people think it's fine to go see someone they have no idea about and then interrupt what's happening because they don't like what they see.

People are 100% in their right to go to the show and complain, period. Again, that should not be denied. Politeness be damned. If you are against the right to protest then there's no discussion to be had.

Or do tickets for comedian shows come with an EULA that by buying you accept all possible jokes and won't be offended by any?

Going to protest someone's show is completely valid, but again, according to you it is not what is happening. You just said that, for example, in Bill Burr's shows, one single person will stand up and yell. Protesters normally are more organized and will show up with at least some signs, and in groups. Not what you are describing.


Even if we ignore that case -which is something that society at large should allow, you know, the right to protest-, maybe people simply cannot research a comedian show enough? Or do you want people to youtube someone's routine to veto the comedian show? Chances are that if a comedian says many jokes, one will insult someone if the comedian is not careful. Again, not gonna deny that person the right to protest. Certainly not in the name of politeness, or in the name of "being careful of going to which shows".

Are they a minority because they're a smaller demographic? Or are they a minority because they're the only one in a crowd of maybe a thousand? In the case of the later does that person have the right to stop the show at their whim?

Dunno what to say on this argument.

Not gonna deny people to complain if they are being insulted. Not gonna deny people the right to defend themselves. If it stops a comedian's show, so be it. Again, it seems that Bill Burr is being successful on his business so I see no problem?

Not gonna defend if someone goes onto the stage and actually punches the comedian, but pretending that people cannot stand up in the middle of a show and say "I am offended by this" is ridiculous.

 

[adamsappel]

People with flatulence problems don't regularly face violence, humiliation, or possess the highest suicidal rate of any minority group. See transgender community.

Is there anybody's act that is 45 solid minutes of trans jokes? Should we shame every comedian who tells one trans joke? Do you even think there are funny trans jokes? Would you have to be trans to tell them?

 

[Fat4all]

shoulda had Doug Stanhope

 

[robotzombie]

People are 100% in their right to go to the show and complain, period. Again, that should not be denied. Politeness be damned. If you are against the right to protest then there's no discussion to be had.

Or do tickets for comedian shows come with an EULA that by buying you accept all possible jokes and won't be offended by any?

Going to protest someone's show is completely valid, but again, according to you it is not what is happening. You just said that, for example, in Bill Burr's shows, one single person will stand up and yell. Protesters normally are more organized and will show up with at least some signs, and in groups. Not what you are describing.


Even if we ignore that case -which is something that society at large should allow, you know, the right to protest-, maybe people simply cannot research a comedian show enough? Or do you want people to youtube someone's routine to veto the comedian show? Chances are that if a comedian says many jokes, one will insult someone if the comedian is not careful. Again, not gonna deny that person the right to protest. Certainly not in the name of politeness, or in the name of "being careful of going to which shows".

Do you extend this to people being offended at stage plays or in movie theaters? Anywhere a person is they have a right to disrupt things the moment they become offended?

 

[Zen_Arcade]

People are 100% in their right to go to the show and complain, period. Again, that should not be denied. Politeness be damned. If you are against the right to protest then there's no discussion to be had.

Or do tickets for comedian shows come with an EULA that by buying you accept all possible jokes and won't be offended by any?

Going to protest someone's show is completely valid, but again, according to you it is not what is happening. You just said that, for example, in Bill Burr's shows, one single person will stand up and yell. Protesters normally are more organized and will show up with at least some signs, and in groups. Not what you are describing.


Even if we ignore that case -which is something that society at large should allow, you know, the right to protest-, maybe people simply cannot research a comedian show enough? Or do you want people to youtube someone's routine to veto the comedian show? Chances are that if a comedian says many jokes, one will insult someone if the comedian is not careful. Again, not gonna deny that person the right to protest. Certainly not in the name of politeness, or in the name of "being careful of going to which shows".

Literally no one is saying that they can't stand up and say something. They're saying that it's a dick move to interrupt a live show just because you don't like it. You can choose to do it, but you're going to be the one that ends up looking like an asshole. I can't think of one instance I've seen where someone went to a live show, disturbed the act on stage and didn't come out looking like a huge dick.

Saying someone "Shouldn't" do something isn't the same as saying someone "Can't". It's just that you're probably going to look like an asshole if you do it.

 

[deli2000]

Because they collectively have said the same things even though they're not related in any way? Because I've seen enough videos/tweets on the internet of people heckling a comedian over a nothing joke to see what they're talking about when they claim these things?

As for your second quote, the reason these people are being loud dicks is because they're offended. They're absolutely related. If they weren't offended they wouldn't be up heckling in the first place.

So what about the numerous people in comedy not complaining about this or arguing against it? Are their experiences less valid. Do they just not get it. I just don't see any structural basis in an argument based on a few video & tweets. As if bias doesn't play a factor about what you find notable and not notable.

Also, if this heckling epidemic is caused by outrage culture. Then how come heckling has existed way before outrage culture apparently has. And if your argument is "It's been intensified or made worse because of this" Then why aren't we targeting hecklers instead of telling disadvantaged people that they should lighten up.

 

[HStallion]

People are 100% in their right to go to the show and complain, period. Again, that should not be denied. Politeness be damned. If you are against the right to protest then there's no discussion to be had.

Or do tickets for comedian shows come with an EULA that by buying you accept all possible jokes and won't be offended by any?

Going to protest someone's show is completely valid, but again, according to you it is not what is happening. You just said that, for example, in Bill Burr's shows, one single person will stand up and yell. Protesters normally are more organized and will show up with at least some signs, and in groups. Not what you are describing.


Even if we ignore that case -which is something that society at large should allow, you know, the right to protest-, maybe people simply cannot research a comedian show enough? Or do you want people to youtube someone's routine to veto the comedian show? Chances are that if a comedian says many jokes, one will insult someone if the comedian is not careful. Again, not gonna deny that person the right to protest. Certainly not in the name of politeness, or in the name of "being careful of going to which shows".

You can often meet a lot of comedians after shows, maybe not the large ones of course, but a lot of smaller guys will often hang around to watch other sets or have a drink, etc. I would probably go then as not only will it be harder for them to handle you like a heckler in the crowd but you can also get shit across a bit clearer. This isn't some low blow abut eloquence or anything either just think you'll get your point across better face to face.

 

[ElFly]

Do you extend this to people being offended at stage plays or in movie theaters? Anywhere a person is they have a right to disrupt things the moment they become offended?

Sure.

I mean it may not make much sense at the movies, but sure.

It has happened before. Society didn't crumble. Theater didn't end. Comedy will survive.

 

[zeemumu]

We can and we can't. People who make jokes that aren't funny and are just purely offensive tend to cover their asses with the "it's just a joke" line, as do the people who make jokes that most would consider to be harmless but will cause you to be publicly crucified, so they're all mixed together into the same pile and jumbled around until no one can tell the difference. There's no longer a line to cross.

 

[DeployThatPizza]

Those comments on Youtube. People really hate Neogaf.

 

[ExVicis]

Dunno what to say on this argument.

Not gonna deny people to complain if they are being insulted. Not gonna deny people the right to defend themselves. If it stops a comedian's show, so be it. Again, it seems that Bill Burr is being successful on his business so I see no problem?

Not gonna defend if someone goes onto the stage and actually punches the comedian, but pretending that people cannot stand up in the middle of a show and say "I am offended by this" is ridiculous.

My general outlook on people's right's is that they should end where another begins. If that person wants to complain so be it. If they want to be angry and start yelling, making a racket, getting physical, or rather intrude on the comic from doing his job or the people from enjoying a service they paid money to enjoy that person is in the wrong and if they can't handle that or the show they need to leave.

 

[HStallion]

Sure.

I mean it may not make much sense at the movies, but sure.

It has happened before. Society didn't crumble. Theater didn't end. Comedy will survive.

You could also argue that theater goes to some very taboo and rarely tread territory much like comedy and using this to further a deeper message or in comedy's case tell a bigger better joke? Obviously a lot of guys will just be punching down and going for a series of low blows but you can tell that a couple jokes into a set, these are not usually the shy type with those sort of jokes. The great comedians will drag you to uncomfortable places that make you squirm but they're the greats because they pull you out the other side and all make it worthwhile. Good comedy transcends boundaries, bad comedy crashes into them and explodes before burning up in an ugly fashion.

 

[nynt9]

People are 100% in their right to go to the show and complain, period. Again, that should not be denied. Politeness be damned. If you are against the right to protest then there's no discussion to be had.

Or do tickets for comedian shows come with an EULA that by buying you accept all possible jokes and won't be offended by any?

Going to protest someone's show is completely valid, but again, according to you it is not what is happening. You just said that, for example, in Bill Burr's shows, one single person will stand up and yell. Protesters normally are more organized and will show up with at least some signs, and in groups. Not what you are describing.


Even if we ignore that case -which is something that society at large should allow, you know, the right to protest-, maybe people simply cannot research a comedian show enough? Or do you want people to youtube someone's routine to veto the comedian show? Chances are that if a comedian says many jokes, one will insult someone if the comedian is not careful. Again, not gonna deny that person the right to protest. Certainly not in the name of politeness, or in the name of "being careful of going to which shows".



Dunno what to say on this argument.

Not gonna deny people to complain if they are being insulted. Not gonna deny people the right to defend themselves. If it stops a comedian's show, so be it. Again, it seems that Bill Burr is being successful on his business so I see no problem?

Not gonna defend if someone goes onto the stage and actually punches the comedian, but pretending that people cannot stand up in the middle of a show and say "I am offended by this" is ridiculous.

I think this is a good point. This mentality puts a very large burden on the comedian and immediately puts them on the defensive. I think it's reasonable to allow comedians a certain degree of leeway. It's hard to say how this should work though.

 

[ElFly]

My general outlook on people's right's is that they should end where another begins. If that person wants to complain so be it. If they want to be angry and start yelling, making a racket, getting physical, or rather intrude on the comic from doing his job or the people from enjoying a service they paid money to enjoy that person is in the wrong and if they can't handle that or the show they need to leave.

Again, I will not go to bat for people actually going in and punching the comedian so don't try to build a strawman that way.

But if you have the right to applaud and cheer and laugh, you have the right to yell "this offends me". If that disrupts a comedian's show is completely, absolutely, irrefutably secondary.

Why ruin everyone else's experience just to make yourself feel better? That's selfish and inconsiderate. It's a lack of appreciation for all the people that put the show together, for all the people who came out to the show to see it and are genuinely having a good time.

Those who get offended have the right to criticize but ruining the experience of others to do so is disrespectful to all involved and does more harm than good. It doesn't change things for the better it just promotes censorship. Did you see the video in the OP? Do you think the comedians deserve the type of treatment displayed there?

I do not think the right to enjoy a show trumps the right to protest. I mean...is this even a right in some place's constitution? We the people believe the right to enjoy a show in peace to be self evident?

Again, not defending comedians being assaulted. But people have a right to voice their displeasure, paid show other people are trying to enjoy or not.

Saying that offended people should just shut up is just the biggest censorship here.

 

[Stinkles]

There's a couple of people in that trailer who I genuinely respect and admire, but at least three who tell absolutely terrible unfunny racist jokes and just want permission to keep doing it and are usually on the same goddamned show as each other. And not like, new edgy, clever racist jokes. 1970s shit just plain old racist ones.


They should be able to tell those jokes, but they should also take the L when people point out that they are shitty racist jokes.

 

[ipukespiders]

If a comedian is worth their salt, they will destroy any heckler. When I pay to see a comedian perform their routine and they also nail it to a heckler, that's just a bonus. If they can't shut down a heckler, they aren't worth watching. The comedian is the one with the Mic.

 

[Cipherr]

Ehh, its going to be overreacting to people overreacting at comedy shows and skits. Literal complaining about complainers that will be complained about by people who don't like being called out.

There have always been people who insisted on being offended by everything, its just that the internet is here now and it helps those folks find each other and provides them a bullhorn to shout through. I think its your fault if you are to dense to recognize what that is and ignore it if need be. Getting all huffy about it is ridiculous. Do your stand up, continue your career, and stop pretending like a few reddit threads somewhere are ruining your life.

Not-so-stealth pro-Gamergate whining.

Y'all gotta stop summoning Gamergate in situations that have fuck all to do with it. Ain't nobody talking about those manbabies nor that whole period in general. There isn't even any talk in the vid about gaming at all.

 

[deli2000]

Do you extend this to people being offended at stage plays or in movie theaters? Anywhere a person is they have a right to disrupt things the moment they become offended?

At Cannes, one of the most lauded film festivals on the planet, people angrily boo movies en masse almost every single year. Yet there aren't a crusade of people seriously going "Movie goers are just too offended" who are taken seriously in world of film. If you start saying that audiences don't get what you're doing as a filmmaker you start getting called pretentious. In comedy you're lauded as a counter-cultural folk hero for vehemently defending your right to make jokes about how being a housewife isn't really that hard.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

So what about the numerous people in comedy not complaining about this or arguing against it? Are their experiences less valid. Do they just not get it. I just don't see any structural basis in an argument based on a few video & tweets. As if bias doesn't play a factor about what you find notable and not notable.

Also, if this heckling epidemic is caused by outrage culture. Then how come heckling has existed way before outrage culture apparently has. And if your argument is "It's been intensified or made worse because of this" Then why aren't we targeting hecklers instead of telling disadvantaged people that they should lighten up.

I don't think there are many people arguing against the fact that there has been an uptick in people getting offended at comedy shows. The closest I've seen on a wide scale is people like Ron Funches and that Paul F. Tompkins video saying that it does happen, but viewing it as OK. Which is fine, if they want to think that it's alright that this is happening and that comedians should adjust their style they can think that. It's not something I particularly agree with, but they can think whatever they want. As for people who aren't speaking up either way, there are so many reasons why they aren't talking that it's pointless to even discuss. And considering that there are people like Tompkins and Funches who admit that it's happening and also don't have a problem with it, to me that lends credence to the idea that it's happening on a large enough scale to comment on. Not just from the side of comedians who have a stake in losing something when this heckling happens, but by people who wouldn't have this issue in the first place and actually view in in a positive light. There would be no reason for Tompkins to even acknowledge that the issue exists and speak favorably of it if it was so confined and rare. He's not going to make a four minute video talking about how he thinks that what is happening is good if what is happening isn't happening in the first place.

I would also weigh the opinions of comedians who actually have racy material over the comedians who have a clean act if there are people out there saying that it doesn't happen. Because of course people who don't have anything that could be deemed offensive in their act would see less of this behavior.

I didn't say that outrage culture is what led to heckling, but you're delusional if you think it hasn't added to it.

I don't know what you're talking about with the last part of your post. I've clearly said how I think that those people who are offended by the jokes become the hecklers even if the majority of the disadvantaged group still thinks the joke is funny. I've been targeting people I feel are overly sensitive based on how other people from that group respond to the same joke. Sometimes that overlaps with hecklers, who I also criticized.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Why Can't I Keep Making Shitty Jokes?: The Movie

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

See, I don't get this argument. Telling people to take a joke for something offensive undermines the reality that many people are marginalized as a minority, whether sexual minority, ethnicity, or whatever. You can make funny jokes without having to fall into a trans stereotype or whatever.

Can something explain to me why people should be able to make jokes like this targeting people?

Take the recent thread about Richard Simmons on Whose Line; it's full of sexual innuendo and is hysterical. Some may take offense but it isn't taking shots at any particular group. It would have been just as funny if it was a similarly mannered female in place of Simmons.

 

[Comfort Jones]

They should be able to tell those jokes, but they should also take the L when people point out that they are shitty racist jokes.

I think this is pretty much my stance on the matter. I think my biggest issue is when people say "x cant be funny, don't joke about it" cuz it's clearly bullshit. Any comedian that doesn't work totally clean has said at least one joke that could be seen as horribly offensive if it wasn't a joke but that's the point, it's a joke.

On the flipside you're just a piece of shit if you have actual fucked up beliefs and try to defend them by saying "I'm not politically correct".

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Eww, Lisa Lapanelli sucks and seems like she's an asshole to pretty much everyone from what I've seen. The others seem interesting though

 

[BUNTING1243]

Penn Jillette, Lisa Lampanelli, and Adam Carolla

well if they are concerned about outrage culture.....

 

[Gleethor]

Take the recent thread about Richard Simmons on Whose Line; it's full of sexual innuendo and is hysterical. Some may take offense but it isn't taking shots at any particular group. It would have been just as funny if it was a similarly mannered female in place of Simmons.

Nah, the fact that it's Simmons makes the bit.

 

[ReignofSparrows]

People are 100% in their right to go to the show and complain, period. Again, that should not be denied. Politeness be damned. If you are against the right to protest then there's no discussion to be had.

Or do tickets for comedian shows come with an EULA that by buying you accept all possible jokes and won't be offended by any?

These terms don't help you if you don't understand them. Heckling is done at the property owner's discretion, not in accordance with a misunderstanding of human rights. They have no 'right to protest' to assert if asked to leave.

 

[7DollarHagane]

There's nothing wrong with complaining about a bad or insensitive joke.

There is something wrong with using social media or a group think mentality to censor speech or lump the joke teller in with negative labels used for actual hurtful people.

Like saying anyone who thinks that people get outraged too often over too many things means you must be a gamergater which means you must hate women which must mean you send death threats to women on Twitter.

 

[fester]

The premise isn't on free speech grounds, though. It's on faux outrage.

Who the hell has the right to tell me that my criticism of your shitty joke is "fake"?

 

[deli2000]

I would also weigh the opinions of comedians who actually have racy material over the comedians who have a clean act if there are people out there saying that it doesn't happen. Because of course people who don't have anything that could be deemed offensive in their act would see less of this behavior.

I would say if you're doing intentionally provocative material and you're complaining about this, then that's even worse. If you're performing relatively clean and you see this happening (like Seinfeld for instance) then I can understand you would be concerned even though I don't agree. But if you're doing edgy or shocking stuff that's designed to be provocative form of comedy, then you better have a decent response to people getting provoked and stop complaining. The very nature of that style instigates outrage and always has done. In a way that's the point. So complaining about how you couldn't handle it when someone acted tastlessly after you said something tasteless is especially ironic and toothless.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

I admit I laughed at Gottfried's joke at the end.

Still, seeing Carolla up there makes me give the premise of the film the side-eye. I half expected Anthony Cumia to show up in the trailer.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Nah, the fact that it's Simmons makes the bit.

Well true, especially when they pass off using him as the prop lol.

But if it were an equally flirty, sexually driven female, they would have been fighting over who gets to use the prop.

But at the end of the day, just because it's homosexual innuendo in this case, it isn't offensive and shouldn't be considered as such.

 

[7DollarHagane]

I admit I laughed at Gottfried's joke at the end.

Still, seeing Carolla up there makes me give the premise of the film the side-eye. I half expected Anthony Cumia to show up in the trailer.

What's the problem with Carolla? I don't even remember him except watching the man show a few times in the early 2000s. Seemed like a silly over the top talk show.

 

[entremet]

Who the hell has the right to tell me that my criticism of your shitty joke is "fake"?

First of all, I'm not a comic.

Second, we criticize poor criticism and reasoning all the time. Did you miss the Angry Video Game Ghostbusters thread?

There have been threads here where a nuanced joke was explained to someone who misinterpreted it.

This is not an uncommon phenomenon.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

I would say if you're doing intentionally provocative material and you're complaining about this, then that's even worse. If you're performing relatively clean and you see this happening (like Seinfeld for instance) then I can understand you would be concerned even though I don't agree. But if your doing edgy or shocking stuff that's designed to be provocative form of comedy, then you better have a decent response to people getting provoked and stop complaining. The very nature of that style instigates outrage and always has done. In a way that's the point. So complaining about how couldn't handle it when someone acted tastlessly after you said something tasteless is especially ironic and toothless.

Not really. Considering the majority of the people in any given audience probably aren't doing the same thing as the heckler is doing. You might have a point if a lot of edgy and provocative comedy didn't usually try to have some deeper meaning behind it (At least when it's done well). The problem is how many people take those jokes at face value and don't bother trying to understand what is being said.

Of course it's great when a comedian can hit back at a heckler, but that doesn't mean that the heckler should be heckling in the first place.

 

[ExVicis]

Again, I will not go to bat for people actually going in and punching the comedian so don't try to build a strawman that way.

But if you have the right to applaud and cheer and laugh, you have the right to yell "this offends me". If that disrupts a comedian's show is completely, absolutely, irrefutably secondary.



I do not think the right to enjoy a show trumps the right to protest. I mean...is this even a right in some place's constitution? We the people believe the right to enjoy a show in peace to be self evident?

Again, not defending comedians being assaulted. But people have a right to voice their displeasure, paid show other people are trying to enjoy or not.

Saying that offended people should just shut up is just the biggest censorship here.

That's why you go up to them after the show and say something, which people do all the time and is perfectly fine, not in the middle of it. The middle of a bit is not the time to pull out a soapbox and make an impromptu speech about the plight of waitresses and tipping. No one is there for you to decide it's your moment to right the wrongs of whatever is being discussed or start a debate about "x". You want to complain, voice your opinion about whatever, go right ahead and do so, but that doesn't mean you're automatically in the right and more than likely you're detracting from a show someone put a lot of work and effort into making that others are trying to enjoy. More than likely you're a disturbance and you might get ejected.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

What's the problem with Carolla? I don't even remember him except watching the man show a few times in the early 2000s. Seemed like a silly over the top talk show.

Grew up listening to his caveman schtick on la radio, and after a few decades of that you start to think the crap he says about women isn't him joking about it.

 

[ScatheZombie]

I thought about this more today, and I think the biggest issue comedians face is the shift from small comedy clubs being a relatively safe haven to try out new, potentially terrible material with very little consequence to an era where anyone can pull out an iPhone and suddenly that 20 person club is +200,000 people on the internet.

Any comedian worth a damn will tell you they do completely different material, from rewording punchlines to removing or adding completely new bits to their sets, when they are playing different audiences. The jokes you tell in a 20-person comedy club are not necessarily 100% the same as the jokes you tell on a broadcast televised comedy special. The jokes that kill in LA or NY would likely bomb in Alabama or Tennessee and vice versa.

I think that's the problem comedians are facing - the internet removes those pockets of smaller audiences that you could get away with a lot of content - or that you could specifically tailor content to. 10-15 years ago, you could try out a potentially bad or offensive joke in a small comedy club and the worst that would happen is you'd offend those particular 20 people. Now, one of them pulls out a phone or even just blogs about what you said and suddenly you've offended 200k instead.

Some comedians have adapted to the changes and a huge number of them have not. I would bet that the ones who haven't adapted feel like they're constantly under attack.

It's easy to paint with a broad brush and say "Well, people are criticizing your comedy because it isn't funny." Yeah, but not funny to who? The audience they are playing or people who didn't even go to the show and are just watching a clip on Youtube? That's the problem comedians today are facing.

 

[robotzombie]

At Cannes, one of the most lauded film festivals on the planet, people angrily boo movies en masse almost every single year. Yet there aren't a crusade of people seriously going "Movie goers are just too offended" who are taken seriously in world of film. If you start saying that audiences don't get what you're doing as a filmmaker you start getting called pretentious. In comedy you're lauded as a counter-cultural folk hero for vehemently defending your right to make jokes about how being a housewife isn't really that hard.

What a terrible analogy. It's a film festival, its Cannes' schtick, people aren't paying money in order to receive the entertainment in return

 

[Nudull]

First of all, I'm not a comic.

Second, we criticize poor criticism and reasoning all the time. Did you miss the Angry Video Game Ghostbusters thread?

There have been threads here where a nuanced joke was explained to someone who misinterpreted it.

This is not an uncommon phenomenon.

What constitutes "fake" and "real" criticism in this case? Who gets to judge or tell the difference?

 

[deli2000]

What a terrible analogy. It's a film festival, its Cannes' schtick, people aren't paying money in order to receive the entertainment in return

If your saying that people loudly expressing their opinions on a comedy show is unwarranted, I agree, but that's just basic heckling. So is your issue with hecklers, or people being outraged over a joke? I don't agree with heckling either, it ruins other people's entertainment sure. But I just disagree that outrage culture has anything to do with it.

 

[vulva]

Looking like this thread's answering the movie's title/question.

 

[entremet]

What constitutes "fake" and "real" criticism in this case? Who gets to judge or tell the difference?

I said faux outrage. Not faux criticism.

Faux outrage has to with outrage for outrage's sake without considering the nuance of the source.

A good example is this:

http://www.pattonoswalt.com/index.cfm?page=spew&id=168

 

[deli2000]

Looking like this thread's answering the movie's title/question.

I'm a bit confused by this? Do mean you think people can't take a joke from this thread? So is the movie's line of argument not refutable at all? Can't we even discuss it without being labelled as outraged? If that's not the point you're making then apologies.