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[StrongBlackVine]

No, I see the following options

1. $ 399 Neo with Jaguar and 4.2 TF. Purpose ?

2. A $ 499 Neo with Jaguar 4.2 TF and sony trying to make some profit.

3. A $ 499 Neo with Zen at 4.2 TF. A machine that runs games at 60 FPS.

4. A $ 599 Neo with zen at 6 TF. A scorpio fist fight, for what purpose I dont know ?

Only option 1 (what has been leaked) is most probable and I am not sure if its worth the upgrade. It wont make games run any better really, we certainly wont get Uc4 at 60 FPS,

Option 3 would be the smart choice to keep all enthusiast Ps4 players locked into PSN for another 3 years.

The other options are dumb as hell and will certainly help MS gain some share.

I am an enthusiast console gamer, have 3 Ps4 in the family (2 in house), 2 PSN subs, buy about 35 games a year phusical + digitally at full price, lots of season passes, will buy VR.

And yet there is a chance I will go Scorpio if Sony go weak on Neo. Jaguar has had its day for me.

Options 1 is OK. I would be get meh as it not a huge upgrade, but it is reasonably priced.

Option 3 is by FAR the most compelling combination of price and power.

Option 3 is at the extreme upper limit and Sony probably won't go there again

Option 2 is awful and Xbox executives would be doing cartwheels all over Redmond if Sony was foolish enough to do it.

 

[Dueck]

My biggest concern with this new approach is that it will kill consoles in the long run. A large part of gamers going with consoles over a PC is the "hardware security" and that you won't need upgrades. No matter what Sony says now, the chance of them not at some point forcing you onto a newer PS4 model is zero. I always buy the new consoles at/around launch, but I won't do it every two years. I can be a PC gamer, but I choose not to be out of preference.

Over the years, many advantages have eroded and it feels like console gaming is like that long-running TV show that isn't as interesting anymore but you keep watching it because you're just maintaining a habit. Exclusives as an incentive are much more uncommon (especially with regards to PC ports), subscriptions to play online are prevalent with consoles (Nintendo is the only remaining hold-out), backwards compatibility is definitely not what it once was (plus all the remastered ports) while Steam (or fan mods) keep you golden--especially important for digital games, most things have great controller support on PC now, for the same money as keeping an up to date PS4 you'll have a vastly superior PC.

I really do NOT want to come off as a PC fanboy, because I honestly hate buying PC games and using it for gaming unless I have to (yet there it is...). Aside from about '99 to '03, I have been "consoles first" since the NES era. I realize somebody will read all that and think "if you don't like it, don't buy it." That's not what I'm outraged by though, it's that it will set a precedent that will likely end something I've loved for so long. If it fails, great, catastrophe averted for me. If it succeeds, I guess I don't reflect the majority's wishes and I will respect this direction and move on with my life.

Sorry for the pseudo-rant, I just feel really passionately about this and I'm worried it'll doom us. Consoles don't sell as well as phones......

 

[geordiemp]

When the PS4 was released it was with a mid-range GPU for the time at $399. A 6tf GPU will become mid-range by the time Vega/1080ti is released. A $200 markup on a midrange box is DOA.

I agree, I did say it was dumb as hell. I dont know why Thuway started us all off with $ 499 for the Jaguar 1.2 clock leaked specs and $ 599 for something better.

Maybe he is enjoying watching the thread burn or he is now working for phil.....

 

[thuway]

599 is the level of GTX 1080, you would need to be mad to buy a much weaker console insed.

It also doesn't include a CPU, motherboard, operating system, controller- and well- everything else.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I guess we still not at acceptance phase with Neo yet.
Look at Scorpio thread, much peaceful, real acceptance there, no debate just hope and dreams.

Holy shit, lol.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Isn't that what Sony wants? I doubt they have any intention of telling people to buy both consoles at once.

No House said the PS4 Neo is compliment to the base PS4 and not a replacement. The base PS4 will continue to be the selling SKU for a long time.

Holy shit, lol.

It's no secret that Wapplew is still very butthurt over the idea of the Neo. Which I find very weird considering to his/her enthusiasm for the Scorpio.

 

[AmyS]

Obviously Neo is going to cost more than PS4 does currently ($349) but not more than PS4's original launch price ($399) given the reported specs. Unless Sony gets stupid.

Edit: 95+ percent chance Neo will be $399.

 

[CosmicQueso]

Its is obvious that PS4 can't read UHD Blurays since it doesn't have an UHD Bluray reader. Last time I wanted to watch a 4K video on the PS4 using the Media Player but it couldn't read it. I don't think reading 4K videos needs a new hardware, an update would be enough.

All this thread needs to complete its journey into the abyss is for Rigby to show up.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I guess we still not at acceptance phase with Neo yet.
Look at Scorpio thread, much peaceful, real acceptance there, no debate just hope and dreams.

Sorry wapplew, you've lost me!?

I personally see the Neo as exactly what DF and Giant Bomb have outlined and I'm all for it at $399/£349 if it also has UHD BD. It is the surprising posts in this thread, especially today, that have caught me out.

Sorry, but talk of 8TF and $599+ has to be mickey taking!

 

[icespide]

All this thread needs to complete its journey into the abyss is for Rigby to show up.

oh no you've summoned him

 

[Crackbone]

Boy this shit has really gone off the rails. There's no way Sony will launch a machine even sniffing $600 bucks.

 

[The Lamp]

I think this console war has gotten too predictable at this point so I'm going to make an outlandish prediction that Sony will launch Neo at $699 with a straight face asking people to upgrade. Because the lols would feed me.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

All this thread needs to complete its journey into the abyss is for Rigby to show up.

oh no you've summoned him

Who is Rigby ?

 

[geordiemp]

All this thread needs to complete its journey into the abyss is for Rigby to show up.

He was on earlier with his Neo excavator predictions, EU energy roadmaps and summit about custom arm in south bridge north poles.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Boy this shit has really gone off the rails. There's no way Sony will launch a machine even sniffing $600 bucks.

Monday can't come soon enough so the focus can switch back to games.

 

[The Artisan]

I'd be curious to see what kind of customizations they would do this time around.

I knew about the memory compression in Polaris but I didn't think it would have that much of an impact. Would be awesome if true though.


I really don't like that idea. It would make devs have to compensate for a ton more hardware configurations like in the PC versions of games. This article has a dev talking about how they prefer Neo/Scorpio for that reason, still much easier than PC optimization.

http://wccftech.com/developing-ps4-...utm_campaign=Feed:+Wccftechcom+(WCCFtech.com)

I see. Looks like developers are actually warming up to the iterative console idea. Which is interesting because when the news was still pretty much just rumors it sounded like most of them didn't like it.

Without the opening up part. Like if they gave a new console expansion ports, so external components could be added. Every few years, put out a small box that has upgraded components and interfaces with your existing system. Would be a hell of a lot cheaper than releasing an entire new console, which honestly, is probably why it won't happen.

Your average console gamer isn't very intelligent about what they're actually getting in terms of a hardware upgrade, and what it's actually worth. They just know "omg it's better though, so I'll spend whatever it costs".

Yeah. Well it's not that they aren't intelligent, it's that they're ignorant (there's a lot of negative connotation with that word but I don't mean it in a bad way; just mean simply that they don't always pay attention to all the details, which is fine).

But yeah, it being cheaper could be why we're not getting that instead but I would've preferred that.

WHAT?

hey yo you never know. some people can dig it.

 

[icespide]

Who is Rigby ?

jeff_rigby

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1086342&page=1

 

[Dueck]

Boy this shit has really gone off the rails. There's no way Sony will launch a machine even sniffing $600 bucks.

They'll just tell us to get another job again. Nothing is impossible at this point. It's fun to speculate though.

I can't see it having a chance at over $400. At $600, the diehard fans will still buy up all the launch consoles, but then it'll slow to a crawl once they have theirs.

 

[spannicus]

500 bucks for new console. Then old ps4 will be peasant box. Only the cream of the crop will own the Neo. Its segregation within the station.

 

[CosmicQueso]

Who is Rigby ?

Yessssssssssssssss... feed him...... call his name.......... BRING HIM TO USSSSSSSSSS!!!!!

He was on earlier with his Neo excavator predictions, EU energy roadmaps and summit about custom arm in south bridge north poles.

Good.... gooooooood... call him. Let him bring forth the factz!!!

 

[AmyS]

oh no you've summoned him

Heh. Before that subjects gets discussed again, while I am confident both Neo and Scorpio will have 4K media content / Ultra HD Blu-ray movie capabilities, I'm also confident that standard PS4 and Xbox One never will.

 

[The God]

My biggest concern with this new approach is that it will kill consoles in the long run. A large part of gamers going with consoles over a PC is the "hardware security" and that you won't need upgrades. No matter what Sony says now, the chance of them not at some point forcing you onto a newer PS4 model is zero. I always buy the new consoles at/around launch, but I won't do it every two years. I can be a PC gamer, but I choose not to be out of preference.

Over the years, many advantages have eroded and it feels like console gaming is like that long-running TV show that isn't as interesting anymore but you keep watching it because you're just maintaining a habit. Exclusives as an incentive are much more uncommon (especially with regards to PC ports), subscriptions to play online are prevalent with consoles (Nintendo is the only remaining hold-out), backwards compatibility is definitely not what it once was (plus all the remastered ports) while Steam (or fan mods) keep you golden--especially important for digital games, most things have great controller support on PC now, for the same money as keeping an up to date PS4 you'll have a vastly superior PC.

I really do NOT want to come off as a PC fanboy, because I honestly hate buying PC games and using it for gaming unless I have to (yet there it is...). Aside from about '99 to '03, I have been "consoles first" since the NES era. I realize somebody will read all that and think "if you don't like it, don't buy it." That's not what I'm outraged by though, it's that it will set a precedent that will likely end something I've loved for so long. If it fails, great, catastrophe averted for me. If it succeeds, I guess I don't reflect the majority's wishes and I will respect this direction and move on with my life.

Sorry for the pseudo-rant, I just feel really passionately about this and I'm worried it'll doom us. Consoles don't sell as well as phones......

Mostly how I feel. This new direction feels like something that encourage's a move to PC and benefits PC more than it does the console space.

 

[Proelite]

So $599 8TF then. Sounds ok to me

A Zen sucessor Vega/Navi 8-9 Tf with 16GB of HBM2 would be $599 in Fall 2017.

Zen with 16 gb GDRR5x, 6.5 tf polaris would be $599 in Spring 2017.

Depending on how far along the mobo design is first option maybe out of the picture.

Second option still viable if they can switch out the memory controllers to support GDDR5x.

Of course if they stick under 6 tf they can keep GDDR5.

 

[spannicus]

I wonder how often they will do this. Having to upgrade a graphics card and a console is ridiculous. Makes sense to keep the lower spec'd consoles and build a pc.

 

[icespide]

I wonder how often they will do this. Having to upgrade a graphics card and a console is ridiculous. Makes sense to keep the lower spec'd consoles and build a pc.

every 3 years seems likely

 

[StrongBlackVine]

I wonder how often they will do this. Having to upgrade a graphics card and a console is ridiculous. Makes sense to keep the lower spec'd consoles and build a pc.

I would say 3 years between iterations.

 

[wapplew]

Mostly how I feel. This new direction feels like something that encourage's a move to PC and benefits PC more than it does the console space.

From the original article

"Mr House did not go as far as Xbox chief Phil Spencer in saying that consoles would become more like PCs, seeing regular improvements to their components rather than jumping between generations as they have for the last 30 years, he saw an opportunity to deliver “some additional benefits” to both consumers and developers within what is usually a five to six year lifespan."

I think they are not going to kill traditional console generation and go PC route.

 

[coiler]

It also doesn't include a CPU, motherboard, operating system, controller- and well- everything else.

I'm counting it like an 2500k upgrade- it will bottleneck the GPU but still blow away everything that Sony can propose in that price without losing money.
And don't think I'm a PC fan, the last game I played on my 770 is Borderlands2.

 

[orochi91]

I wonder how often they will do this. Having to upgrade a graphics card and a console is ridiculous. Makes sense to keep the lower spec'd consoles and build a pc.

Yea, I wouldn't bother buying every iteration.

I'll only upgrade to whatever the "K" or ".5" models are:

PS4.5 -> PS5.5 -> PS6.5 -> and etc.

That way, I'll have ~6 year gap between each upgrade, which is essentially a proper console cycle.

 

[spannicus]

every 3 years seems likely

I would say 3 years between iterations.

Yeah i was thinking the same. Man things are a changing.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

From the original article

Mr House did not go as far as Xbox chief Phil Spencer in saying that consoles would become more like PCs, seeing regular improvements to their components rather than jumping between generations as they have for the last 30 years, he saw an opportunity to deliver “some additional benefits” to both consumers and developers within what is usually a five to six year lifespan.


I think they are not going to kill traditional console generation and go PC route.

So you are OK with what Sony is doing now? If so what changed your mind?

 

[Smether]

I still have my doubts about this one. If it is going to spit out the same games at 4k, then why the heck wouldn't I upgrade, aside from having to buy a new console? But then if it really is going to run better, and thus provide that much better of an experience, I fear Sony will start to fragment its own PS4 base. Kind of already happened with the 360 and the 97 skus with different HDDs, HD-DVD adapters, memory cards, and all the other slop that was MS hardware at that point.

 

[UberTag]

I would say 3 years between iterations.

That sounds realistic. Especially given the timetable we're going to see for Neo.
As soon as that thing hits shelves, Sony will be working on its successor. And I would expect to see that arrive in late 2019.
Possibly 2020 as VR is kind of forcing this one out quicker.

 

[spannicus]

Yea, I wouldn't bother buying every iteration.

I'll only upgrade to whatever the "K" or ".5" models are:

PS4.5 -> PS5.5 -> PS6.5 -> and etc.

That way, I'll have ~6 year gap between each upgrade, which is essentially a proper console cycle.

Interesting times ahead. This can be pretty bad for people like me who like to have the latest technology. Expecially when it comes to games.

 

[wapplew]

So you are OK with what Sony is doing now? If so what changed your mind?

Like I said, I can accept iterative hardware within traditional generation cycle. I'm fine with it as long as they don't force Neo forward compatible with PS5.
Sure I still wish they cancel Neo but that's not going to happen now.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Yeah i was thinking the same. Man things are a changing.

I have such a disconnect with people that are upset about this change. It is weird to see such a pushback against improving tech. With Sony guaranteeing continue support for older models I see the opposition as being irrational. Maybe after this thing releases and people see their OG PS4 did not turn into shit over night(poorly optimized games) they will learn to accept it.

 

[The God]

From the original article

"Mr House did not go as far as Xbox chief Phil Spencer in saying that consoles would become more like PCs, seeing regular improvements to their components rather than jumping between generations as they have for the last 30 years, he saw an opportunity to deliver “some additional benefits” to both consumers and developers within what is usually a five to six year lifespan."

I think they are not going to kill traditional console generation and go PC route.

This doesn't really negate what I said though. My point is console upgrades period seem to encourage PC gaming more than anything.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

From the original article

Mr House did not go as far as Xbox chief Phil Spencer in saying that consoles would become more like PCs, seeing regular improvements to their components rather than jumping between generations as they have for the last 30 years, he saw an opportunity to deliver “some additional benefits” to both consumers and developers within what is usually a five to six year lifespan.


I think they are not going to kill traditional console generation and go PC route.

Sounds like a one-off taking advantage of the 14nm+new GPU architecture. Given how long they get stuck on nodes these days I can't see another such situation for a long time.

 

[Septimius]

599 is the level of GTX 1080, you would need to be mad to buy a much weaker console insed.

You're glossing over the fact that you need a lot more to actually have a computer, not just a GPU.

 

[Bigrx1]

Could be a good window of opportunity for Microsoft if they plan on talking about the Scorpio at E3 since Sony isn't going to talk Neo.

 

[coiler]

You're glossing over the fact that you need a lot more to actually have a computer, not just a GPU.

As above I'm counting it as an upgrade for a 4y old 2500k how many Gaf peopleis still rocking one?

 

[wapplew]

Sounds like a one-off taking advantage of the 14nm+new GPU architecture. Given how long they get stuck on nodes these days I can't see another such situation for a long time.

That's why I think the thread title change is a little click baitky. The original article never said they are going to cites smartphone cycle.
Or maybe I just hear what I want to hear.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Could be a good window of opportunity for Microsoft if they plan on talking about the Scorpio at E3 since Sony isn't going to talk Neo.

Talk about something that is likely at least a year away? What exactly will that accomplish outside of delivering the finishing blow to Xbox One sales that are already chartering?

 

[Fafalada]

Hey experts from the other threads saying all you do is change a config file, why is this an issue?

GAF experts also claimed the box doesn't exist for 4k content but for vr

 

[The Artisan]

At this point that's all I can do. Sit and take it as something that's happening and try to enjoy what I have.
Because I don't plan to plunk down more money that could be used for a ps5 a few more years down the road...or a ps5k even later down the road.

This is not the future of gaming that I wanted. But hey, if other people are ok with it, I won't stop them.

this pretty much does it for me

 

[Anth0ny]

I really don't think people are going to upgrade their consoles on the same cycle that they upgrade their phones, but we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Averon]

Sounds like a one-off taking advantage of the 14nm+new GPU architecture. Given how long they get stuck on nodes these days I can't see another such situation for a long time.

I thought about this as well. Given how long it takes to switch to smaller nodes, a new iterative console releasing every three years seems unlikely. We're just switching to the 14nm node after being stuck on the 28 for 5+ years. Who know how long it will take to switch to the 10nm node.

 

[AmyS]

Yea, I wouldn't bother buying every iteration.

I'll only upgrade to whatever the "K" or ".5" models are:

PS4.5 -> PS5.5 -> PS6.5 -> and etc.

That way, I'll have ~6 year gap between each upgrade, which is essentially a proper console cycle.

I totally get what you're saying, and in that context I agree. This could be the way the console industry moves forward from here on out. However there is nothing to say that we'll have consistent console XYP and .5 or "K" upgrades for the next 10-15 years. I think console manufactures will take it on a case by case (or generation by generation) basis, always re-evaluating what makes the most sense for their profitability at the time, not always what we want or expect. i.e. PS5 and the equivalent Xbox might last ~6 years (starting in 2020-2021) without a mid-gen upgrade, and new tech, ideas, etc come along by the late 2020s that changes the course of console gaming again.

I do think that we can see how the console industry will move forward for the next 5 years, but not the next 15 years.

 

[Fafalada]

If you focused on the 300 MHz in order MIPS core and compared to what you could build a PC with back then

You could focus on any of the console CPUs. When ps2 launched, PC had 1ghz athlons, when Xbox/gcn were out we were seeing xp2000s, and 2 years in PC desktop CPUs were well over an order of magnitude faster in single core gp performance than any of the consoles.
The gap was just much wider then it is today.

 

[icespide]

At this point that's all I can do. Sit and take it as something that's happening and try to enjoy what I have.
Because I don't plan to plunk down more money that could be used for a ps5 a few more years down the road...or a ps5k even later down the road.

This is not the future of gaming that I wanted. But hey, if other people are ok with it, I won't stop them.

"try to enjoy what I have" my god... you are still going to get great games on your PS4