BruceLeeRoy
Banned
No your completely okay with that view. We're talking about people that try and say it's bad
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Uncharted 4: A Thief's End |OT| You're gonna miss this ass
- Thread starter BaraSailey
- Start date
No your completely okay with that view. We're talking about people that try and say it's bad
toddhunter
Member
Fair enough, it is certainly a strong tps.
My only real complaint may be a strange one. But after each fight I would have the choice of weapons to pick up and would really have no idea what to take. It seemed there was always about 4 or 5 different machine guns and all seemed pretty much exactly the same. So it came down to trying to estimate which gun appeared the most, so I would have the maximum amount of ammo.
More variety in those weapons would have been good. I seem to recall things like crossbows in U2 which at least felt different. Unless I missed out on things, I don't recall much variety in weapons in 4 at all.
Fancy Clown
Member
The encounters are very short and spread out as is, and combat plays an incredibly important part in the experience, pacing, and story of this game. A lot of people try to condescend the use of combat in Uncharted (and other games) by saying "shoot bang" or "pew pew" doesn't interest them, but the fact is it's no less of an interesting facet to the game's vernacular than any other, and easily its most dynamic. The game would not work even remotely as well if they further cut down the action, as the sense of urgency, tension, and threat, of the plot would be cut down, and they serve as important punctuation marks to narrative movements as well.
Also, like its really good. And I don't know why you wouldn't want less if you think the combat is good, since the game is like 75% environmental puzzles already.
A lot of the complaints from people who don't like the combat seem to be from people who find it too overwhelming and are probably playing it like a cover shooter instead of constant movement taking full advantage of the level and Drake's moveset. I've heard people complaigning that cover gets destroyed to easily, there are too many guys, guns don't have enough ammo, etc. And here I am thinking all those things are great because those push you to play Uncharted like Uncharted.
And I still see some people saying the enemies are bullet sponges smh.
toddhunter
Member
I disagree and to be honest think this is a rather closed mind way of looking at gaming. I understand that the majority of gamers have to be killing stuff to have a good time, but I contend that it is not necessary at all for a good adventure.
The flow of the game is very clear, you do the climbing/narration/light puzzle part until you get to a section that just happens to have an assortment of waist high obstacles around it. You then shoot people for a few minutes until you have killed enough guys and are able to move on. This actually kills any sense of tension or urgency, since you are forced into a combat situation and know exactly what is coming every single time.
Worse, there is no progression to the combat or no reward besides possibly having more ammo to confront the next section. The game even pointedly returns the state of the game to exactly where it was pre the combat encounter in just about every case. For example there is a section where you need to open a gate. You then have a combat scenario for 10 minutes and the grand outcome of that? You are still in a section where you need to open a gate.
Important punctuation mark? To me the combat is merely pointless busy work to extend the game.
UnObtainium17
Member
Wow chapter 12
It's far from bad, but also far from the top dogs in the genre.
I literally squealed when I spotted the dolphins.
So pretty and life-like. :3
OMG are you kidding me I have to find theeeeeem...
What's mechanically fantastic about enemies having pin point accuracy and immediately knowing where you are all the time after the first time they spotted you? For all the talk of you can use the environment, it constantly punishes you when you do. Using a rope doesn't make you flank an unsuspecting enemy, it turns you into target practice.
I turned on auto aim and never regretted it.
It's better than the previous uncharteds I'll give you that.
Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
Yep, there's a huge drop in quality for the character facial animation and the lighting when going from cutscene to gameplay
Mr.Fletcher
Member
Uncharted 4 is the first great TPS in the series.
However, I prefer the encounter design from the previous games, 2 in particular. Uncharted 4's combat areas felt a little bit samey in the end.
There's not enough tools to play with to justify it's open-ended approach to combat.
Previous games had handcrafted battles where you'd be forced to switch playstyles. Sure you had less flexibility, but every fight had its own flavour and it helped keep the pacing brisk.
The Monastery in Uncharted 2 is the perfect example of this with a great composition of varied encounters which demanded specific skills from the player. Plus they all keep Nate moving towards his goal.
In Uncharted 4 a lot of combat takes place just to take place. You follow a linear path which widens out into these combat bowls before shrinking back into the golden breadcrumb trail (Fable 2 reference). They feel like bumps in the road, slightly detached.
When you can do everything from the off and you're doing the same things for 15 hours it hurts the experience unless you design scenarios which make you engage with different weapons/skills as you go.
Previous Uncharted games were smart enough to realise they had a small set of tools and really built encounters in a way to ask you different questions.
In Uncharted 4 you're playing scaled down outposts from MGSV with a fraction of the tools Snake has to make it fun. The combat loop never changes.
Uncharted 4 is my favourite in the series believe it or not, but in terms of design it doesn't hold a candle to Uncharted 2 and tried to get too much out of its fairly ordinary mechanics.
However, I prefer the encounter design from the previous games, 2 in particular. Uncharted 4's combat areas felt a little bit samey in the end.
There's not enough tools to play with to justify it's open-ended approach to combat.
Previous games had handcrafted battles where you'd be forced to switch playstyles. Sure you had less flexibility, but every fight had its own flavour and it helped keep the pacing brisk.
The Monastery in Uncharted 2 is the perfect example of this with a great composition of varied encounters which demanded specific skills from the player. Plus they all keep Nate moving towards his goal.
In Uncharted 4 a lot of combat takes place just to take place. You follow a linear path which widens out into these combat bowls before shrinking back into the golden breadcrumb trail (Fable 2 reference). They feel like bumps in the road, slightly detached.
When you can do everything from the off and you're doing the same things for 15 hours it hurts the experience unless you design scenarios which make you engage with different weapons/skills as you go.
Previous Uncharted games were smart enough to realise they had a small set of tools and really built encounters in a way to ask you different questions.
In Uncharted 4 you're playing scaled down outposts from MGSV with a fraction of the tools Snake has to make it fun. The combat loop never changes.
Uncharted 4 is my favourite in the series believe it or not, but in terms of design it doesn't hold a candle to Uncharted 2 and tried to get too much out of its fairly ordinary mechanics.
Beat it today. 😥
God I just didn't want it to end. The whole experience was so incredible. The visuals were like nothing I've ever seen. The characters conversing with each other and the emotions on their faces was truly top tier stuff.
Well done Nauthy Dog. If this was in fact your last Uncharted, this was certainly the one to end on.
Oh and playing on Hard...was really f'ing hard holy crap. Felt like crushing.
God I just didn't want it to end. The whole experience was so incredible. The visuals were like nothing I've ever seen. The characters conversing with each other and the emotions on their faces was truly top tier stuff.
I have never LOVED having companions with me the entire game. It made those moments when your alone feel utterly alone.
I only have one real gripe with the game and that's melee combat. There needs to be a counter feature. what made it so frustrating was the countering with the last sword fight was AMAZING! Why couldn't they have done that with those melee combat segments? Triangle to block left punch, square for right. Would have been so much better.
And OH GOD at the car chase!!! I've never played a something that insane. My Gold headsets were blaring loud. Felt like I was actively participate of a movie. Amazing.
I only have one real gripe with the game and that's melee combat. There needs to be a counter feature. what made it so frustrating was the countering with the last sword fight was AMAZING! Why couldn't they have done that with those melee combat segments? Triangle to block left punch, square for right. Would have been so much better.
And OH GOD at the car chase!!! I've never played a something that insane. My Gold headsets were blaring loud. Felt like I was actively participate of a movie. Amazing.
Well done Nauthy Dog. If this was in fact your last Uncharted, this was certainly the one to end on.
Oh and playing on Hard...was really f'ing hard holy crap. Felt like crushing.
Man i have been looking at your posts for UC4 and i always seem to think that we think completely alike regarding this game!
I agree on pretty much everything. The combat feels truly great! The only thing i would maybe want to tweak a bit regarding the combat, would be to somewhat reduce the enemy's aiming while you swing from a rope. Not saying they shouldnt hit you at all, just reduce a bit the hits you take.
Grinchy
Banned
I'm sure they just knew that 99% of players would keep moving while the characters talked and that animating all the lines for the 1% wasn't worth it.
flipswitch
Member
Check out Nate's wrist.
Check out Nate's wrist.
Gotta stop and stretch those wrists, all that climbing must be killing them.
OfTheOverflow
Member
Hey guys, do the optional gameplay modifiers like infinite ammo disable trophies for completing on Crushing?
Edit: if so, what about skins? Assuming not for them?
Edit: if so, what about skins? Assuming not for them?
Fancy Clown
Member
It's like having an Indiana Jones or James Bond movie without action. Story wise, if there was no action literally the whole story wouldn't make sense because there would be no reason for Drake to quit adventuring because he'd just be going on a mildly perilous mountain climbing jaunt, rather than a race to save his brother and nab the treausure before a psycho with an army does. There are tons of important narrative functions for the combat too. Like in chapter 11
the craziest and most action packed setpiece in the game comes as a mid-second act peak, and is intentionally over the top and high octane to get you to be exhilarated and lose yourself in the thrill of the action. This way Drake and the player are both thoroughly disarmed by Elena when she calls him out on what he's doing in the next scene.
Like it or not, combat is still the most viable way to externalize conflicts in a narrative in video games, because it is often the most dynamic and challenging obstacle to overcome. The combat in Uncharted 4 absolutely does have progression though. Play one of the encounters from earlier in the game and then one from late in the game. The levels being increasingly more dense, have more rope points, more enemies, and dole out the harder enemies types at a more measured pace than prior games, and it all creates a satisfying difficulty curve and sense of escalation. And the tension and urgency doenst come from being totally blindsided by combat enciunters, but the encounters themselves. The music playing, the super fast pace of the action, the intensity of fighting against overwhelming odds in order to save yourself or another character, is all where the tension and urgency comes from. It's a perfect change of pace from the climbing and puzzles which are very relaxed and slower paced.
I think its close-minded to look down on combat in video games and think other mechanisms are more mature. Of course not all games need combat, and not all stories do either, but this game and this story absolutely 100% do. I can condescend the other elements of the game just as easily as you.
"The flow of the game is clear, you have a cutscene, then have some combat, and then as soon as you get to some white highlighted ridges on the wall you know you need to start climbing it's super predictable. You then hold the control stick in a direction and press X until you've climbed enough ridges to move on. There's no reward for climbing or solving puzzles except being able to move on to the next climable object or puzzle. There's also no progression at all throughout the game".
See? That's an incredibly silly way of looking at anything, being so reductionist and willfully obtuse that rather than giving any criticism that actually says anything about the mechanics or their place in the game it just comes off as empty condescension. Saying "shooting random dudes until dudes stop" is as empty as saying "mashing x on random highlighted ridges until ridges stop".
So clearly you don't actually think the combat is good, even though you said you did lol. But instead of saying that you don't like it, you framed it in a way that makes you seem like you're oh so intellectual because combat is such a frivolous gameplay mechanic compared to the very mature mechanics of climbing and solving puzzles.
JimmyRustler
Gold Member
Wut? This was the first Uncharted game where I acutally liked the combat. Loved how much they've taken and learned from the Last of Us combat design. Although, from what I've seen, it mostly seems to be possible to do the encounters stealthy, I always went on full action mode because of how fun it is. Give up a few shots, kill a few enemies, run away, go into hiding again, repeat. So damn fun. I can't believe that at the end of the game I acutally wished there was more combat in the game.
potatohead
Member
@fancyclown reply ouch..... that's a sick burn. Well made reply.
Nothing disables trophies in this game.
Nothing disables trophies in this game.
Fancy Clown
Member
I disagree with this a lot. There's not a single TPS that plays like this, very few that have as much momentum and exhileration, and none that have the quality of animation and
seamlessness that U4 has.
Yeah although I love the game, I certainly don't think it's perfect and I think that change would certainly be for the better for the combat. You can do all the crazy rope stuff you want on moderate difficulty, but on hard it becomes a much riskier proposition, riskier than it probably should.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
First enemies don't have pin point accuracy especially if your running around. Swinging, jumping over obstacles, rolling and going from cover to cover instead of staying in one spot greatly reduces their ability to accurately hit you. To the point that even on crushing I was able to beat most combat scenarios the first time they happened without knowing where enemies were coming from because I knew if I stayed moving I could get in a better strategic position. I am actually putting together a long video of my playthrough showing exactly that. So I guess that long paragraph was me saying. That statement isn't true.
Next, enemies do lose track of you and can even go back into search mode. In
Madagascar
So again your statement isn't true.
No its definitely a top dog(no pun intended) if were considering the best in the genre to be:
Max Payne
Vanquish
TLOU
MGS5
MGS5 and Vanquish are still I think a peg higher because they just control like pure sex.
Equanimity
Member
Uncharted 4 combat is absolutely fantastic in my opinion.
Yeah, the only strange pin point accuracy I have encountered is with grenades. They are really annoying, but as you point out you have to keep moving. The grenades are basically a kick up the arse forcing you to move from cover to cover.
I just played through the firefight of chapter 18 on crushing, I admit I did pretty much stay in one place for that one, enemies come from all directions and it was the only place I could at least cover my back, I was getting cut to pieces everywhere else. It was properly hard, I had a great time though.
Equanimity
Member
I'm on my second play-through, and I enjoyed chapter 16 a lot more this time around.
Does anyone else feel the same?
Does anyone else feel the same?
Fancy Clown
Member
I disliked chapter 16 ever so slightly less the second time around
The worst thing about chapter 16 were the completely inept cops. Aside from that, I think it was not only nice, but pretty important to bring more attachment between Nate and Sam and also bring closure to something Uncharted 3 left wide open.
Those cops tho.
Fancy Clown
Member
I'm the opposite on that chapter haha. I thought the chase did a really good job of guiding you exactly where to go without feeling like it's guided and totally closing off pathways. It was a nice organic evolution of the chases from 3. Yeah the cops are inept, but movies do the same thing with chases all the time. It's the feeling of almost getting caught that matters.
The shit with Nate and Sam was so contrived and hacky though. Uncharted 3 told you everything you needed to know about his backstory in a way more economical, and subtle scene. This just re-explained things that didn't need explaining, and added new controved elements in an overblown, melodramatic fashion.
I can see why they did it though, to increase the importance of Sam in Nate's life (and unfortunately because people complained about the mild ambiguity of that stuff in Uncharted 3 ), it just wasn't executed well. And then on top of that the
Evelyn
sloppyjoe_gamer
Gold Member
After finishing this again on Crushing last night....
That final swordfight, while really cool, drags on a bit too long in my opinion.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
Holy moly you guys, playing with bullet time enabled is so ridiculously fun! I mean - Max Payne who?!
I think the new patch messed up my collectibles. It's really weird, I got all the collectibles and now they're gone, optional conversations, notes, journal entries are all gone and a couple of treasures too. It's even weirder because I collected those during my Crushing playthrough. The chapter select screen says I completed chapters on Crushing but it also saysI didn't collect any collectibles apart from treasures.
EDIT:
Downloaded a backed up 'profile' save and it's all good now :/.
EDIT:
Downloaded a backed up 'profile' save and it's all good now :/.
petethepanda
Member
Still stuck on that frigging chapter 13 gunfight on crushing. This is killing me.
Is there some trick on getting the enemies to lose you and get back into 'stealth mode?' I break line of sight completely, double back a ways and sit there waiting, but it never drops out of combat, someone eventually tracks me down and still magically knows the exact position I'm in.
Is there some trick on getting the enemies to lose you and get back into 'stealth mode?' I break line of sight completely, double back a ways and sit there waiting, but it never drops out of combat, someone eventually tracks me down and still magically knows the exact position I'm in.
I had more luck just gun fighting. The first half is easy enough I imagine, the trouble is usually the second half with the laser, grenade launcher and machine gun guys. The key for me was moving back and forth and making the machine guy following me, then quickly running back to the other side to pick off guys when he wasn't there.
petethepanda
Member
Yeah, definitely hitting a wall about midway through with that wave. I'm sure I'll get it sooner or later, it's just unfortunately gotten to the point where I start to get frustrated enough that I start playing poorly.
Terrorblot
Member
Bought the game last Sunday and started and finished it over a family vacation. I had a boat load of fun, I didn't like it as much as Last of Us but it's definitely worthy of the franchise. Naughty Dog is so reliably great I can't believe it.
About the cops, yeah I understand, but they still felt like inepts on steroids at times... It was definitely nicely designed so we could find our way easily, I agree. I enjoyed the chapter either way.
About his past... I think it was done poorly in Uncharted 3, which is why Neil probably felt compelled to bring some closure. We've been playing this dude who we've come to love throughout three games and all of a sudden he's not who said he was and we were supposed to just use our imagination... I mean, we could've, and we did, but there you had a pretty cool, somewhat superficial character, and when they finally decided to open him up a bit they shut us down.
It was only natural for many fans to want more since it was just a major tease, one that felt interesting enough to explore. So I think it was necessary and I feel they did well all things considered. Could it have been done better? Possibly, but he was trying to close something he didn't begin in the first place, so it couldn't have been easy for him, I imagine.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
Any good strategies on ghosting in Scotland... on crushing? The guide's path is a bit flawed.
When a grunt says "huh!? Whose footprints are these?", do I have to start over?
When a grunt says "huh!? Whose footprints are these?", do I have to start over?
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Fricken frick chapter 13 and 14.
This game is just unbelievable.
This game is just unbelievable.
I still can't understand how people wouldn't think this games gameplay isn't good. If they are talking about the platforming, they really need to specify that, because the combat and gun play are brilliant. I've seen reviews that barely mention gun play and move sets...like wtf are you doing? You need to let the people know.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Even the platforming is great. In the midst of combat your traversal options are just amazing
Always-honest
Banned
In combat it's great to be able to do that. The climbing/ platforming without combat is boring as hell imo.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Neuromancer
Member
Can someone tell me how much game time I have left? I think I'm very close to the end but want to make sure since I have a deadline.
Just got to Avery's mansion and was beset by a ton of bad guys.
Can't really give you time left, but you're nearly there. Not much left.
Neuromancer
Member
Gracias mi amigo.