Nice post. I very much agree on all points.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Digital Foundry: Spec Analysis: Xbox Project Scorpio
- Thread starter Theorry
- Start date
Nice post. I very much agree on all points.
Andronicus
Banned
so is the system 6 TF or just the GPU ( only answer if you actually know the answer)
Andronicus
Banned
who is he?
A couple people before him someone says it is 6tb packed into the SoC. Which isn't that referring to all processing units? but yes later someone says on gpu. so not sure if the first guy means the 6tb gpu is packed onto the SoC
I have no idea since Microsoft was not kind enough to put names on the video.
Yep, which is weird. Maybe we could get someone from Microsoft to clarify that possibly. A 6TF GPU on a SoC is a lot different from a 6TF SoC.
David Ricardo
Member
It leaves Sony in a very difficult position regarding Neo. If Scorpio is really 40% more powerful, what's PS4 Neos selling point going to be?
If you want power, you should go with Microsoft. If you don't care enough about power to buy another console so soon, you should keep your standard PS4. Who would buy a Neo in that scenario?
It's even worse, because there won't be any Neo exclusives. So, if I buy a Scorpio, I get the best of both worlds. I can play all of Sony's exclusives in my og PS4, and I can play all of MS exclusives in Scorpio, plus all the best versions of multiplatform games.
Journey
Banned
Guys, both X1 and PS4 have SoC and both referr to their respective 1.31 and 1.84 TF performance to the GPU performance without accounting CPU, so why would it be different now? CPUs account for very little in terms of TF, probably 0.1 lol, besides if Neo ends up using just an overclocked Jaguar and Scorpio ends up with Zen, the difference would be pretty damn significant, more so than the TF difference.
Yup having Zen will be a big knockout punch.
Kareem Choudhry, one of the brains behind Kinect. Now director of software engineering at Xbox.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
If you want power, you'll go PC. Which will cost more than an Xbox Scorpio, which will cost more than a PS4 Neo.
Unless Microsoft is willing to take a big hit, there's no doubt that Scorpio will be an expensive proposition. Probably $499, which will greatly limit its market potential.
And while Microsoft opens up the possibility for exclusive Scorpio games, the reality is that this simply will not happen unless it's funded by Microsoft. And even then, it's an expensive proposition given what will likely be such a niche product. So what we're left with are games that will certainly look better on Scorpio vs. Neo, but probably an Xbox One --> PS4 level of difference. Noticeable, but within the same generational spectrum, and it's questionable whether it's worth the added expense, especially if it mostly involves a resolution bump to 4K, which isn't something that interests a whole lot of consumers in my view. Neo should be capable of 1080p60, which I think most gamers would be more interested in than a bump to 4k.
So, I see PS4 Neo being a lot more marketable if the price tag is substantially less. A $399 PS4 Neo will sell a lot more than a $499 Scorpio.
statham
Member
whoa, link please?
I fully expect it'll be $399 and maybe Neo can drop to $349.
tiredheadcrab
Member
Where are people getting this $499 price from? You guys realize that a 6TF system at the end of 2017 will be a mid range pc right? This could easily go for $399. MS doesnt buy these chips from Newegg.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
It's just speculation based upon the Digital Foundry article, and the rumored price of the PS4 Neo.
End of 2017, the PC midrange will still be I5+RX480 which doesn't hit 6TF I don't think.
CrispyBoar
Banned
Not to mention that the majority of this country (let alone the entire world) doesn't own 4K TV's.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Nor did they own HDTV's last gen when those consoles launched.
4K is going to be the norm in a couple of years. They are already becoming very affordable, faster price drops than 1080p sets did, faster adoption rate than 1080p, and a lot of the TV makers are making all their TV's 4K, with only a model or two for the 'budget' 1080p sets.
ninjablade
Banned
most tech heads say neo will not be capable of 1080p/60fps on the more demanding ps4 games, because of the cpu.
dragonelite
Member
I was already postponing a 4k monitor until a 4k compatible(can output 4k upressed)
xbox one would be announced. With the X1s i can finally upgrade to a 4k monitor and
not have to wait until Neo or Scorpio.
Still a cpu delivering 300~500 gflops is a beefy cpu if im not mistaken. So its a good thing
means it can probably run x1 30fps games at 60fps if the engine is tuned for it.
dragonelite
Member
double post..
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
Don't think anyone can or will provide you link because they never confirmed ANYTHING. They have been very careful, I have seen and read numerous interview on this thing and its impressive how everyone is on the same page. No slip of tongue and almost similar answer from all PR people at MS.
Its like Phil got them all in one room, showed them what a fuck up Xbox One reveal was and we are not repeating that shit again.
What's interesting is, no one is even calling Xbox One S a slim. Its like you are not supposed to. Its just a new model. During the interview with Jeff, PR lady said slim by mistake and then corrected herself.
lol its crazy how the Xbox One reveal have changed this company in so many ways.
wapplew
Member
It leaves MS in a very difficult position regarding Scorpio. If PS5 is really 40% more powerful, what's Scorpio selling point going to be?
If you want power, you should go with Sony. If you don't care enough about power to buy another console so soon, you should keep your standard Xbox. Who would buy a Scorpio in that scenario?
Sad Affleck
Member
I think Microsoft has studied what happened so far in this generation and I'm guessing the plan is to take back the resolution and performance advantage that the PS4 has. Focusing on 4k at a time when 4k tvs are dropping in price is a smart move.
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
I agree, powerful scorpio doesn't really do much. Ultimately this is going to be a race to get the most users use XBL or PSN.
Its not going to be about PlayStation 4 or Xbox One, Neo or Scorpio. Generations have ended. Spec was will be dumb in few years. It will be ever evolving console cycles now. The company with the most player on their service will win.
Right now its Sony. Since everything will be backward and forward compatible. Its going to be very hard for MS to convince any of those 40million user to leave their library and switch side.
Scorpio is to stop further damage. They don't want people leaving Xbox ecosystem with Neo. I feel like, they just had to come out and say it. And they did it. It could go either ways now. We will have to wait and see
Hawk269
Member
LMAO
You have to wonder what some people think when it comes to console and the cost associated with components. MS & Sony order parts in the millions and you can bet your ass they get a bit better price than what Newegg charges. lol.
I am also thinking that $399.99 might be the price point. There is a $299.99 Xbox One S with a UHD Player, so a $100.00 more in 16 months or so can be seen as a reasonable price for the extra performance. Granted, we don't know the amount or type of memory, HDD size etc. and final CPU, which all can drive the price a bit higher. But in 16 months, I can see if they use Zen, 12GB of GDDR5x and a 1TB HDD that they could possibly pull that off at $399.99.
rokkerkory
Member
Whoa guys talking PS5 already? Lol
Power doesn't mean nothing when your preferred console manufacturer has the system with the most power
CrispyBoar
Banned
I agree. In the end, it all comes down to games & exclusives.
Even if Scorpio is more powerful than the Neo, I would still get the Neo over the Scorpio. Why? Because Sony has the games that I like, & not to mention that there's always Japanese 3rd party games in which Xbox won't receive.
If people really want superior graphics, guess what? It's called a gaming PC. There's no doubt that by the time that both Neo & Scorpio are released, they will be graphics cards that will automatically be powerful than both such as the GTX 1080ti.
...Scatter...
Banned
I just appreciate that we won't be stuck with the same hardware for years while PC does magical things. I want top notch console performance without the PC struggles of driver updates, Video Card overheating
(this happened to me - I've had two cards die on me years ago and I said fuck it, I'm out.)
They don'Don't have to convince the 40 million, they have to target the 100 million last gen customers that still haven't made a decision and target new customers.
This is about getting Xbox gamers back, I read a book about the 360 development and they knew then you won over the hardcore gamers and the rest followed, they forgot that for Xbox One and diluted their message.
Scorpio will disrupt pc's gaming as much as ps4, why fanny around with pc when you can buy a console that will reliably pump out 4K
Scorpio will disrupt pc's gaming as much as ps4, why fanny around with pc when you can buy a console that will reliably pump out 4K
I wonder if this is the thing that'll hold back graphics and gaming in the future. If the average person buying a console doesn't care much about graphics, it's going to be real hard for Sony/MS to convince a lot of people to upgrade at all. With rising development costs, game studios will want to target the largest audience, which means we may very well see most games targeting PS4/Xbone even after 2020 with only minor improvements for Neo/Scorpio.
Microsoft gladly welcomes you as a Windows 10 and UWP customer.
CrispyBoar
Banned
Though I can just easily buy games from online stores such as GOG & Steam.
On Windows? ;-)
If the Neo ends up being significantly weaker than the Scorpio MS just won me back for all my third party purchases.
I'll always have both, but the system that gives me the best performance on third party games will always be my main console.
I'm pumped for Scorpio based on all the breakdowns, I'm interested to see what Sony has up their sleeve.
I'll always have both, but the system that gives me the best performance on third party games will always be my main console.
I'm pumped for Scorpio based on all the breakdowns, I'm interested to see what Sony has up their sleeve.
I actually found that part of the video incredibly endearing.
No matter how people try to argue the importance of exclusives, 3rd party games are a major factor these days and having the better multiplatform games is of course a reason to buy a system.
Except that this time the new console will not replace 8-year old hardware dozen times less powerful , literally from the previous era, that everybody wants to leave and jump on something new, exciting with new games etc.
When X360 was unveiled and short after, games like Gears of War made lots of people want to switch.
But now, 3 years in, they try to tease with someting undeniably powerful, but is it as appealing as previous propositions ?
Knowing that new games just may be developed to fully utilize full power ? Knowing You need to leave a lot of bought stuff behind when You switch (from PS) ?
Right now that we know all the future machines will be compatible with the old games (well, maybe not 10-15 years old like with Windows PCs) , power is not a deciding factor anymore. Games will play more or less the same. Software catalogue You own becomes more and more important. Hardware iterations will make it more and more appealing by small steps and the obvious effect on us is - we will spend more money (on hardware) than before.
And I don't know what MS can do to convince people to abandon their Playstation stuff and switch back.
In this sense MS is out of luck, they will have to try very hard. They need more people in their ecosystem, they try to open it for PC gamers but there is just a handful of games that are new to them, and I doubt they want to replace Steam with something different. Especially that console game prices are ridiculous compared to same PC games that play better.
You mean that Windows I purchased one time few years ago for a price of one console game or the one MS wants to give me for free ? They see zero of my money as far as I know.
It will soon not be free anymore. You still use their software and you are a customer to them.
How much money MS gets from software on Windows, I don't know. But if you ever bought an Android phone, MS also benefited from that.
...Scatter...
Banned
It's no magic bullet. You chisel away the stupid decisions that cost you and create goodwill over time. They have been working hard at that over three past couple of years. A beastly new console will be the piece de resistance to finally reopen the doors.
Good for you. Stick it to the man.
I guess
That makes sense, we'd never get a console 40% more powerful than its competition at the same price.
Seriously though, it's bad speculation that doesn't make any sense. Sony wants to profit on each console, and MS is willing to take a small hit on each console, thus you get two very differently powered systems at the same price. The Scorpio will almost certainly have a similar build cost to the launch XBO minus Kinect, maybe slightly higher depending on the memory used. The Neo on the other hand will cost a fair bit less to build than the launch PS4 due to a smaller SoC, lower power draw, cooler operation, and the now lower cost of GDDR5.
duhmetree
Member
The big question is how long with Microsoft have this power lead? A year? Two?
Will there be a significant advantage with third party developers? There will be the XB1/PS4 versions of games and there will be the 'ultra version' of the game... which will more than likely be catered to the NEO since its the weakest link.
I found it funny that if Sony really wanted to be assholes, they could do the same thing Microsoft did. Announce "PS5" a year and a half early at e3 2017.... 10-12TF for Holiday 2018-Early 2019.
Either way, competition is great. Just give us great games... and power.
Will there be a significant advantage with third party developers? There will be the XB1/PS4 versions of games and there will be the 'ultra version' of the game... which will more than likely be catered to the NEO since its the weakest link.
I found it funny that if Sony really wanted to be assholes, they could do the same thing Microsoft did. Announce "PS5" a year and a half early at e3 2017.... 10-12TF for Holiday 2018-Early 2019.
Either way, competition is great. Just give us great games... and power.
We don't know. But then again, how long will a different company have the power lead. A year? Two?
Exactly.
This is a machine aimed at hardcore enthusiasts like high-end PC graphic cards.
There will be no new games unless devs decide (there's no hard push from MS yet so I have to assume there will be very few of them). As such there will be very limited audience for that at the start aside hardcores, unless there's some new messaging that's going to appeal to masses.
I don't think 20-30 million PS4 users are fence-sitters waiting to replace their machine 1-2 years after they've bought it to play better multiplats.
Same with Neo. Limited appeal only for those who want and are willing to spend lot of money for some slightly better experience (I don't believe 60fps gaming vision, all we will get are slightly better graphics and few more fps max) .
God help us in that case.