OK, good to hear.
I thought maybe there was a requirement that the target framerate be the same.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Digital Foundry: Spec Analysis: Xbox Project Scorpio
- Thread starter Theorry
- Start date
OK, good to hear.
I thought maybe there was a requirement that the target framerate be the same.
With a weak Jaguar CPU, neither can Scorpio
BurgerDicks
Banned
It will be the same shit 30fps and below as other generations.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Yep. Xbox will again be the definitive platform to play multiplats on.
Lone Wolf
Member
I highly doubt Scorpio will ship with Jaguar cores.
Mixolydian
Member
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the in depth analysis from future man...
BURGERDICKS!
Why are people so confident in the specs of a machine that Microsoft doesn't even have a prototype for? Their announcement was clearly intended to take the focus away from the Neo and reaffirm to the loyal fans that Microsoft will have a powerful machine.
It's not a Jaguar CPU?
rokkerkory
Member
Does there exist an 8 core jaguar I wonder?
...Scatter...
Banned
Ummmm, yeah. It's in both consoles now. But it won't be Jaguar. Puma at the worst
Samurai G0SU
Member
Sad how these threads become enlightening to cringe worthy moments...
I am excited they are hungry for competition. Great for all gamers!!
I am excited they are hungry for competition. Great for all gamers!!
...Scatter...
Banned
No. Puma is Jaguar with a much lower TDP meaning you can clock it much higher for the same TDP. It's like a 28nn to 14nm shrink.
rokkerkory
Member
Oh that's right was thinking of 360 lol
Yeah uprated jaguar makes no sense to match the gpu. A forum member mentioned he talked to some ms exec yesterday and exec hinted it isnt jaguar.
Mixolydian
Member
Specifically said Zen, but we'll see.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I just don't think there is much emphasis on the CPUs of consoles. May be they'll go with the next gen mobile chips. Zen lite?
I'll be pleasantly surprised if the cores are "proper" desktop tier.
that old ass thing wont be in a 2017 console...
DF is completely speculating but in 2017 AMD is building Zen based APUs. Putting Jaguar cores in the system would be absolutely backwards and all things with the Scorpio point to Microsoft wanting to really get it right on a technical standpoint, putting Jaguar cores with this 6TF GPU would completely handicap their entire design.
...Scatter...
Banned
You're not getting good VR with Jaguar cores.
Just slightly lower TDP. 8 upclocked Pumas are still woefully underpowered.
I'm wondering if MS is aiming for the Scorpio to be less perceived as a console, and more of a "streamlined PC," if that makes sense? A higher price point would make sense as it'll have the best of both console and PC gaming.
Could somebody, please, elaborate as to the major differences between the Jaguar and Zen? Would using a Jaguar bottleneck the system or is this just speculation?
Also, what's with MS/Sony using AMD chips and not Intel or Nvidia?
...Scatter...
Banned
They are. That's true. Better than Jaguar though. I'm hoping for Zen APU version. Zen based APUs are dropping early next year. Seeing how the 480 tech is $200 retail now it will be super cheap come next year and at non retail prices. MS can squeeze out a $399 6TF console ready for pre Thanksgiving 2017.
Not to mention they won't have to spend millions R&D ing a controller and Kinect this time so cost per unit will have a lot less overhead.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
It is really funny this discussion about the CPU because it was exactly the same with PS4 and Xbox One before they released. No way would Sony/MS go Jaguar they're weak ass! They're for netbooks! nah..must be placeholders and the real deal will have Steamroller....
Hopefully it won't be too long before we know for sure what CPU cores these consoles have.
Hopefully it won't be too long before we know for sure what CPU cores these consoles have.
TheSpecialOne
Banned
I'm pretty sure you don't know what you're talking about. There are 46 games retail games that run at 1080p 60fps on the ps4/xb1 and I'm looking at an outdated list. A lot of those games can be run at 4k on my old gtx 960 2gb at around 30 fps or so with some even reaching 60fps with drops into the md 50's. If we include psn/xbl only games to the list, I'm sure it will be much longer. Your statement only holds true if you qualify it. Unless that statement is inherently false. I can guarantee you that there will be several 4k60fps games on the neo and even more on the scorpio. Your premise is pretty poor tbh.
...Scatter...
Banned
They can't keep pulling a George Carlin on us: "I never slept with a 10, but one night I slept with 5 2's!"
I think any predition at this point is just hot air. We'll know when we know. But hey, click bait!!!
butman
Member
This with 60fps.
Proelite
Member
Resolution has not much to do with the CPU.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Hehe. I would love them to go balls out here but I've got hyped up before and it never happens. So I'm going to be the grumpy one.
Who knows...may be one or both of them will have a special additional chip that bridges any weakness!? I just want confirmation sooner rather than later this time.
vpance
Member
You know what I meant. Capable of 60 in all games, as in enhancing games that weren't already running at 60.
Just not seeing the value add if either 4K or a reliable expectation of 60 aren't there, $399 or not.
There is no VR on the Scorpio with out the Zen. MS is not building any headset and will depend on Vive and/or Oculus for VR. The CPU will be at least on the level of an I5 to meet the min spec for either. It will be Zen CPU it could be the laptop version or down clocked desktop version.
Framerate, draw distance, etc.
Very strong CPU needed for VR as well (also why I'm confused about PSVR)
TheSpecialOne
Banned
The value of 4k in itself is debatable. Imo, 4k does not make your game look any better. Running a game at 1440p and pushing more effects will yield more pleasant results than running the game at 4k with lower settings. I currently game at 4k on pc and it doesn't make your game any better. It has slightly better IQ but all in all, most people would prefer SW:BF at 1440p with max settings to SW:BF at 4k with medium settings. An increase in resolution provides diminishing returns.
The value add you get is significantly better looking games.
Lone Wolf
Member
Scorpio is launching 4 years after Xbox one. The only information we have is that it has 8 cores, as per Microsoft. I don't think it is crazy to think that it will use something other than jaguar cores. DF made a wild guess and have absolutely no basis for claiming it would most likely have Jaguar cores.
If you ever get the chance, you need to see something on an HDR compatible TV. 4K really shines with HDR, which is why it is required for UHD players.
CrispyBoar
Banned
I highly doubt it. If anything, most 3rd party publishers are going to give Scorpio versions of games a minimal graphic increase. They're not going to immediately ignore 40+ million PS4 owners & leave a lot of money on the table.
Remember, it took 2 years just to eliminate cross-gen gaming with PS3 & 360 once PS4 & Xbox One had officially came out. What do you think is going to happen when they have to work across 4 different platforms being PS4, Xbox One, Neo & Scorpio?
Saberus
Member
Well, from my understanding, these are APU's so with the GPU/CPU on one die, GPU can assist the CPU with some tasks, so it can compensate to a point for a weaker CPU.
RowdyReverb
Member
Isn't a "minimal graphic increase" the only difference between 360/PS3 and XB1/PS4 visuals?
TheSpecialOne
Banned
Hdr is what makes it look good not the resolution itself. Like I said, diminishing returns. I've had a look at hdr content and I'll be picking up the lg e6 or b6 oled closer to Christmas.
RowdyReverb
Member
Yeah. I've seen a lot of people here confusing the two already
Pathfinder
Member
What messaging? They acknowledged Neo's existence (like we didn't know about it already) but aren't saying much else about it.
Instead, Scorpio is getting all the ink. I feel Sony should have at least mentioned it at E3 and given potential buyers a choice whether to buy a PS4 now or wait until next year to buy a Neo.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Sure they may be something other than Jaguar but right now I believe whatever CPU cores they are they will have a similar disparity to the GPU performance as the current console SoCs.
The main reasons I'm thinking this right now is power use. 8 down clocked Zen cores might use twice the power of mobile class cores e.g. 40W vs 20W. Might even mean a 180-200W console again. And the cost of this could go over $500 too.
I really do hope Zen happens though and Microsoft do go for broke. I'm just holding back for now.
rokkerkory
Member
You're easily confused then.
Eclectic Jabber Monkey
Member
It comes down to the cost/performance ratio mostly. AMD's APUs give Sony and MS the most bang for their buck, good enough performance for their cost. Currently Intel's APU can't keep up with AMD's on the graphics side of things, while Nvidia doesn't have an APU option or the licenses from Intel and AMD to make x86 family processors. Also, using separate CPUs and GPUs in consoles would drive up costs; bigger & more complex motherboards, separate cooling for CPU & GPU, dealing with 2 vendors is more work, etc.
Another big reason they go with AMD is that they will do custom work and sell the hardware design license to the hardware makers, so MS and Sony can get the designs they want and own them. I don't believe Intel or Nvidia provide such a service.
I don't follow the semiconductor industry like I used to, so I might be a bit off with some of the above, correct me if I'm wrong folks. Ha ha, like I would have to ask,
Journey
Banned
1.31 vs 1.84 is 40%
4.19 vs 6 is 45%
But here's the thing, X1 and PS4 CPU's are the same, in fact X1 CPU benefits from slightly higher clock, but if Scorpio ends up using Zen, the difference would be a LOT more significant than the 45% Flop increase would suggest.
I really hope Microsoft convinces devs to start adding Scorpio support now so when it launches next year the games coming out over the next year can take advantage of it with nothing extra needed later down the line. I know they're looking to do that with Gears 4 and I'm guessing 343 will have an update for Halo 5, Halo Wars 2 and Halo 6 will be built from the ground up with it in mind to really showcase the hardware next E3.