...Scatter...
Banned
They don't need people to not have PS4s. They just need them to move their multiplat purchases to Scorpio.
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Digital Foundry: Spec Analysis: Xbox Project Scorpio
- Thread starter Theorry
- Start date
They don't need people to not have PS4s. They just need them to move their multiplat purchases to Scorpio.
Cthulhu_Steev
Member
Well Sneakers mentioned something about being impressed by the way Sony are managing the two APIs, so it's possible they're going down the same track with the SonyOS.
I just wanted to avoid the picture being just the neo having the same challenges around price.
Although neo will have more pressure on price if it is coming 6-9 months earlier. Costs on 14nm will drop rapidly at some point and releasing a big APU too early will be cost prohibitive.
Better get your credit card ready then. You'll need to buy a neo because it'll be more powerful than ps4, then buy a Scorpio, then a neo2.. Oh and be happy to have any of your digital purchases spread across multiple consoles.
The incremental approach mitigates temporary blips in power. Scorpio sounds nice but it still isn't hbm and 14nm still isn't mature. There is a lot of power still to come over the next few years before it starts plateauing.
Yup, albeit hard to find any compelling reason to do so outside hardcore space.
MilkyJoe
Member
Do we know any of this yet?
We don't. Everyone is just saying wild speculation.
MilkyJoe
Member
I thought so.
These two threads have been a hilarious mixture of the deluded and folk pulling things out of thin air.
Lol are you kidding me, I am a pc gamer and when Scorpio comes out it will still be majorly underpowered compared to what I can get on PC, 1080ti anyone. In fact Scorpio could barely match my current setup, which I built October of last year.....
derExperte
Member
Because the majority of games will never make it to the X1 or any other console. Because of the flexibility to tweak them far beyond what limited mods on consoles will ever allow. Because Scorpio still won't match the visuals of a good 2016 PC, resolution is only one parameter, some people are all about 144fps or max details or multimonitor or everything combined. Because we like keyboard & mouse when it makes sense. Basically because few PC players are repressed console gamers desperate to jump ship, the platform will forever have a multitude of advantages. Don't get me wrong, I like this new iterative approach because late last gen was painful but better keep your expectations in check.
i will buy Neo to play exclusives games for Sony and better frame rates and with better details, good enough? Also people are into PlayStation ecosystem why would they buy a 600e Scorpio? Also in EU Xbox is non existent nobody is buying it at 199e in some places, let alone 600e.
If Neo is 400e, it will fly of shelves. if it is 500e, it is DOA just like Scorpio until prices drop.
500e plus Consoles always, ALWAYS flop, we know that from ps3 and Xbox One, let's get real here.
And your theory is already wrong most people don't think like that because if they thought like that Xbox would not even exist, let´s say: I buy a ps4 i have all sony games and i build a Gaming Pc and i play all the best multiplatform games, i play eSports titles, i play at 144hz or 4K the best experiences and i also play Microsoft exclusives. See? World doesn´t work like that.
Did your PC cost under $500? Come on. Scorpio is aimed at the console players who DO care about specs, and as the PS4 has shown us it's a quite sizable amount of people.
HBM2 is 256GB/s per stack. 320GB/s doesn't exist in the HBM2 spec. The bandwidth would have to be a multiple of 256GB/s.
Scorpio is not using HBM/2.
My response was to someone saying Scorpio would disrupt the market because of its power of 4k........
That's assuming a base clock of 1GHz though .... you could get to 320GB/s with HBM2 but I highly doubt they would go this way when GDDR5X should be way cheaper.
I think it's a bit premature for Microsoft to promise higher clocked HBM2 that no one is producing.
crab rangoon
Banned
'Capped' is what I should have said.
And you all thought that 2TB Xone S would be 299 but the doubters were right it was $399. I don't think MS or Sony are in the business of losing money anymore. If that was the case MS could of easily dropped a 6TF console this year and ate the cost.
Phil has already said it will cost more than the slim and is aimed at the 4k premium customer.
Having said all that I fully expect it to be $399 considering the slim should be getting a price drop next holiday.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
What? That $10/$100 thing was an example of the irrelevancy of using a percentage when making a comparison on two different figures in this case the ~40% gap between the PS4 and XBO and the ~40% gap between the Neo and Scorpion aren't remotely the same. The gap is nearly 3.5 times greater than the difference between the PS4 and XBO. It doesn't mean the Scorpion is 3.5 times more powerful it means the difference in processing power that much greater when compared to the gap between the 2013 consoles.
Why is this still coming up? The CPU isn't going to contribute a significant amount of FLOPs for it to matter.
It's going to on the lower side of mid-range this summer. By end of 2017 it'll be classed as a budget GPU. The 480 isn't that far off of 6TF on its own and will probably easily hit that with a relatively small over clock if 5.5TF is its reference FLOP count, there will be factory OC'd cards that reach that.
There really is nothing shown that should lead anyone to believe this is a console MS needs to sell for $500 to profit off of. The GPU is pretty much on par with where the PS4's was in 2013 in relation to GPU hardware on PC was at the time.
Why go all the way up to a 1080Ti? More powerful video cards are out now and have been for about a year with the Titan X, 980Ti, R9 Fury, Nano and Fury X and now the 1080 and 1070, the latter which is at Titan X/980Ti levels. A 1080Ti is probably going to be at least twice as powerful as the XB Scorpion's GPU. I think the R9 390x is a good baseline to compare things too, if an NVIDIA equivalent is needed it'd probably be a reference 980.
Well they announced 320GB/s as their bandwith. HBM2 would be able to achieve much more. So I think it's been confirmed that their are not using HBM2 (probably GDDR5X)
I disagree. The PS4 will still be available to those who don't want to spend $400 - 600. Just like the Xbox One or the S will still be available when Scorpio releases.
I think that gives MS/Sony some leeway on price.
dr_rus
Member
There isn't many options beyond GDDR5X for that kind of bandwidth - unless they are willing to go with a wider than 256 bit bus. 10Gbps GDDR5X would provide that exact bandwidth on 256 bit bus.
I was more referring to using the 14nm process.
No. Please stop with this pipe dream. Scorpio will be closer to $599 than $399. This is going to be an expensive machine with "premium" and "4K" experience as it's selling point. Love-letter to Xbox fans or not, unless they take a hit - it's not $399. Also, cut out the Zen. Micrososft is not going to waste half the power budget on the CPU. These new GPU's are designed to fully reinforce GPGPU programming philosophies, so Jaguar/Puma/Excavator/Zen Lite will become viable options.
Neo isn't immune to the same criticism and law of design. Both machines have GPU's manufactured on the same process (14 nm) - you will not see a large increase in performance without a symmetrical increase in size, heat, power draw, and box.
I think those prices are reasonable if the respective consoles deliver. PS4's and Xbox One/S's will still be available to those who don't want to spend that much. This is nothing like getting a second job for your PS3.
No, I'm not kidding you. You represent a minority of gamers. I can build a nice gaming PC, but I don't. I'd rather buy a console.
Different strokes