geordiemp
Member
Agree, except AI will have to be the same as OG Ps4.
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Digital Foundry: Spec Analysis: Xbox Project Scorpio
- Thread starter Theorry
- Start date
Agree, except AI will have to be the same as OG Ps4.
I know not everyone feels the same, but I would pick the GPU upgrade.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
It is a good question to which I have no idea about. Both Sony and Microsoft yesterday have been talking to devs and having them tell them what they need and want. Sure it is in a large part PR but if the CPU was such a big issue like we read here then something would be done about it or at least we'd hear grumblings from devs.
It is a compromise that devs have in a large part excepted is my guess what with GPGPU and other techniques being brought in from AMD to help bridge the gap.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
Thanks for the tip...very interesting.
thelastword
Banned
The funny thing is Osiris is Kinda suggesting that the Neo option B would be more than $500.00. meaning 5.5TF and better CPU. So if Neo option B is $600.00 then Scorpio would be $700.00 or more.
I'm sorry but this is how percentages work, if the scorpio is 6TF and the Neo 5.48TF, the difference would be much less than 40%. In any case, DF made the distinction and those percentages aren't wrong, I was only attacking the mixed messaging from them.
4 times? Are you serious, you need to review your math again. Even if Sony agrees to a 4.2TF GPU, the Scorpio is no where close to 4 times better than NEO. I think you should go over the details. Hell, not even long ago we had the Scorpio GPU pegged as a polaris part just like NEO. It could simply be that the Scorpio had their GPU clocked much higher than NEO, since they have had traditionally had bigger boxes to house their chipsets and cooling solutions. With MS giving some vague details on NEO yesterday, where most of it was already leaked "like the 6TF". There's no new details MS gave yesterday to justify a shift from "it's a Polaris part to a Vega part" stance from DF. If there was more details on the GPU, fine, but that was certainly not the case.
Please understand, that I'm not disregarding the Scorpio GPU being a Vega part entirely. In all likelihood it may very well be a Vega GPU, given AMD's timeline and the time of Scorpio's launch, however, there are other things to consider.....Vega will be a larger part than polaris since they are going with 4096 stream processors to combat high end Nvidia cards, we are also talking faster memory and also more memory in excess of 8GB, of course Vega is being fabbed with HBM2 in tow, a higher TDP than 150watts is most definitely a possibility. So maybe a low-watt vega is on the cards for consoles, but it gives me pause because Vega has always been touted as AMD"S flagship GPU for next year. So I'm not sure how that's going to work out for a low-watt console box.
So if you believe I'm saying that Vega will be in Neo and not in Scorpio, I'm definitely not saying that. There's a higher chance that Scorpio has a Vega part than Neo, but only if NEO launches much sooner than Scorpio.
I've also been reading the thread where Phil was questioned on making games exclusive for Scorpio and he said that it rests on developers and that there is no hard rule on which platform they should choose.crab Rangoon said:
Just google the rumor, you'll get it, Ummm.....crab Rangoon said:
http://www.techpowerup.com/222403/amd-pulls-radeon-vega-launch-to-october
http://videocardz.com/59808/amd-vega-gpu-allegedly-pushed-forward-to-october
http://hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/92747-amd-vega-launch-brought-forward-october-says-report/
Rumor is that they plan to launch Vega 10 with Battlefield 1 in OCT 2016.
crab Rangoon said:
I'm sure they are qualified to say what they are saying, but as a consumer I am also qualified to say that a dev who constantly releases games with a million bugs, framerate reaching 0fps amongst many man many other issues, that you'll give them a Computer that even the most insatiable compute-hungry engineer at NASA would look at with glee and Bethesda will still find a way give you slowdown, stutter and framerate issues.
That was an ad more than anything from MS and it means nothing till we start seeing real games on the system from these devs. I take it you were not around when similar things were said about the XB1.
I usually don't like putting post on the spot like that with inside info. Let people search on their own.
But i wonder what the surprise is? It's related to the hardware. Higher specs than we thought at that price?
Beerman462
Member
I can't wait to come back and laugh at the $599 predictions in 18 months.
OsirisBlack
Banned
Who thinks it wont?
martino
Member
Not surprised if you have faith in this kind of rumor(when ps) but this one is the craziest and hardest one to believe
Omnistalgic
Member
Booooo...
We're going back to the ps2 era then and now all the Xbots gonna be like "we got the beast son!!"
And I'm all like "yea but the games tho, it's all about the games"
And they like "nigga stop stutin, u know salty over all these teraflops"
And I'm like "God of war looks good tho -_- "
Was hoping Sony would get it to like GameCube vs. Xbox not PS2 vs. Xbox. Oh well..
We get one year to relish, and then blood will be spilled...lmao
THE:MILKMAN
Member
?? What do you mean about putting insider on the spot? And what surprise?
I don't get how your post is related to what geordiemp said?
Crayon
Member
If the scorpio was like a just a premium souped up xbox one, I could believe it goin that high with nicer materials or mandatory elite controller etc.
But it's looking more and more like the old xbox one is going to be cut out as soon as the userbase of the scorpio shores up. They can get up around that 600 dollar price. It needs to be as low as possible to get the userbase established.
I do.
It's 18 months from now and it's not using cutting edge technology.
It'll be $399
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Yep, I would guess $399 too. The hardware in holiday 2017 will be nothing spectacular and will be roughly equivalent in build cost to a launch PS4 / XB1. Can probably do it around cost for that price, not much more if any.
Well it's like saying hey let me buy another Xbox or make a superior PC build within the same price range. $500 can buy you a top range PC card that blows anything consoles can come out. What I'm saying is what's stopping me from buying a PC + PS4 Neo combo and be set for the next 4 years?
Microsoft will never release an underpowered console again. At worst, Sony and Microsoft will go back and forth with each other trying to one-up each other's specs until zero hour and both systems (Neo + Scorpio) release with equal specs.
The Project Scorpio video at the end of the conference was one part love letter to Xbox fans, and one part admitting the humongous fuck-up they made with the Xbox One's reveal and original specs.
They are actually listening to developers + fans when designing Scorpio - something I bet they didn't do at all when they designed Xbox One with ESRAM, GDDR3 RAM, and 40% less power than the competition.
The Project Scorpio video at the end of the conference was one part love letter to Xbox fans, and one part admitting the humongous fuck-up they made with the Xbox One's reveal and original specs.
They are actually listening to developers + fans when designing Scorpio - something I bet they didn't do at all when they designed Xbox One with ESRAM, GDDR3 RAM, and 40% less power than the competition.
statham
Member
nothing. You will buy all multiplats on steam, buy PS exclusives on Neo and buy Xbox exclusives on W10 store. Everyone wins!
Just_myles
Member
So true, that means we'll be able to get better 1080p gaming on console, right? That's a win. I don't necessarily need 4k. I don't plan on investing on the tv any time soon.
Nothing? The Xbox Scorpio is an option for those who cannot be bothered to do anything with PC.
So i guess this ends the console wars (cries)...now everybody can get the piece of the pie (except Nintendo).
vpance
Member
Ehh, kind of believing Osiris more for now. Not sure of Sneakers track record on leaks.
It would be completely idiotic to keep selling OG and Neo side by side with a $50-100 differential, which if we're to believe this hint, is what would end up happening according to House.
Pathfinder
Member
Agreed on all fronts. It does kind of feel like one big apology, which can only be a good thing.
TheSpecialOne
Banned
So would I. The pc library is much bigger and you get the xbox exclusives.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
I'd guess the Neo comes in at $399 this year too, with the OG PS4 cut to $299 before long.
Long Division
Banned
That's just one of the many, many advantages yes.
Crayon
Member
Then maybe the neo gets down to 299 or 349 by the time scorpio comes out? I guess eventually this will all blend together.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
If the "Neo" was releasing in time for the holiday season we'd already be hearing about it being in production. I'm not 100% sure but I haven't seen anything that would imply as such.
You realize they were just talking about the performance gap relative to the one between the XBO and PS4, yeah?
The PS4's ~40% advantage is MUCH SMALLER than the same percentage gap between these new machines. 4.2 vs 6TF is a much bigger gap than what there was between the XBO and PS4 regardless of the percentage, it's equal to another PS4 GPU in performance. Just like someone getting 40% of $10 and someone else getting 40% of $100, who have more money?
CrispyBoar
Banned
These. People who honestly think that Microsoft's going to automatically win based off of power alone with Scorpio are delusional. Power wasn't the main reason why most people switched over to PS4, it's just a bonus.
Most of the casuals/average consumers couldn't care less about that. They care about games more.
Except that Sony actually has games that are exclusive to their console, 1st party & Japanese 3rd party games.
So according to this article Neo is already been designed and done deal? They seem to be very confident that it's a done deal for Neo and nothing will change even though Sony has not officially talked about the specs. I think Sony will up the specs a bit just to match Scorpio more closely. Or they will sell it at least $100 cheaper to counter MS. Just my hunch but I guess we will see.
Simply Sami
Member
What?
You know you need a $1000 TV to take advantage of stuff like HDR support. People who don't care about specs will end up going for the cheaper one.
Proelite
Member
By your explaination, the performance gap between Xbox and Ps2 is nothing, like 1% PS4. But the performance gap between a 500 teraflops system and 518 teraflops system is huge since its 10x ps4.
JumPeRJumPzZ
Banned
If they want to launch Q1 2017 it has to be locked by now
...Scatter...
Banned
I think you're wrong. Power is absolutely important. But it's not the only thing. Most COD, Madden, FIFA players could give two shits about games like TLG and Horizon. They want, shooting, sports, racing. MS will not take Asia or parts of Europe, but it can retake the US, Canada, and UK, and push in South/Central America with a great product. Looks like they're on the right path. I don't care about who sells most though. I just want a good strong ecosystem.
nothing is stopping you. That's they beauty of it. If your position is that Xbox exclusives on PC makes it easier for you to decide to upgrade your PC, then MS still benefits, because they are retaining you as a customer AND convincing you to purchase software from their store. They don't NEED you to buy their hardware.
The consoles will remain ideal for people who prefer to play on consoles...
Sony started amassing its sales lead long before either console had any exclusives to write home about. The narrative was that the PS4 was the more powerful console at a lower price. It was the better place to play COD, Battlefield, Assassins Creed, Destiny, FIFA, Madden, Watchdogs etc...
Reluctant-Hero
Member
This.
1080p. 60 fps locked every time. "Ultra" graphics. I could care less about 4K.
crab rangoon
Banned
Not for anyone already owning a PS4. For that consumer you'd get a much broader library with a Xbox One S alongside their existing PS4.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Yeah probably.
Honestly I don't think Sony would have made the Neo at all if it wasn't for the incoming Scorpio. But that's just my speculation.
because they didnt do it this gen amirite ?
just look at tomb raider definitive difference
if specs are true thats what youre gonna get next year
vpance
Member
Still feel it won't happen. The divide in specs and price between models is so useless, for casuals and core alike, and for Sony's ability to reach lower price points ongoing. Neo can't hit 60 FPS, or 4K, and certainly not both at once, and core gamers will be easily enticed to wait for Scorpio where a real difference in fidelity can be seen. And no Slim OG PS4 hurts their ability to cut the price down any more than $299. The strategy all around just doesn't make sense.
crab rangoon
Banned
...depends how you want to define 'performance'. In terms of flops, the latter is a much larger delta. If you are looking at the difference in areas of graphics processing that scale nonlinearly with the number of pixel rows (AA applications, some other post fx, etc) then that can mask a LOT of the processing delta (see: PS4 vs X1, where 40% more pixels processed with the help of 0.5 TF worth of a GPU delta amounts to a negligible visual difference for most gaming setups). Further, things like resolution don't typically scale linearly with the visual acuity of the image hitting the player's eye, so higher the res, the smaller the difference is in the visual impression for a given delta.
On the other hand, if devs don't shoot for 4k native there very likely will be pretty noticeable differences in asset and effects quality between the two (assuming both have same target framerate of course).
Might wanna recheck your math btw.
crab rangoon
Banned
You mean locked framerate vs unlocked thanks to two different dev teams?
Fixed that for you.
i played the xbone version and it definitely wasnt locked
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...s-shannon-lofits.aspx?utm_content=buffera7771
This news kind of sucks. I guess they're really focused on native 4k.
theyre not. spencer already said devs are free to choose whatever they want with power
Yea, and most devs will go with graphics over resolution, as clearly evident from the current generation. DICE could have easily made Battlefront 1080p and 60fps on both consoles, but it wouldn't look nearly as good.