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[LukasTaves]

Until I see real Xbox Scorpio specs I'm forced to believe that they did exactly what I think they did..

Remember Microsoft never mentioned Xbox One's 1.3Tflops but now they announce Xbox Scorpio as a 6tflop console.

I'm guessing the APU will also need to have embedded ram for backwards compatibility with Xbox One so what are the chances of them fitting a bigger GPU than what is in the PS4 Neo in a APU with embedded ram?


The fact that Polaris can do half-precision computation gave them the chance to use the 6tflop line & the fact that Neo wasn't announced gave them the chance to say it's the most powerful console ever made.

Do you really have to ask why they didn't have numbers first, but now at willing to? The answer to both is the same, because they knew exactly how the numbers would compare to the competition.

There will be no need to have embedded ram, and they already showed they are ok to have the bigger apu size.

 

[Detective]

Native 1440P with checkerboard rendering, and I bet most people will be blown away.

Scorpio/Neo resolution threads will be interesting....

 

[MisterXDTV]

Scorpio/Neo resolution threads will be interesting....

Digital Foundry articles are gonna be amazing.....

 

[Detective]

Digital Foundry articles are gonna be amazing.....

lol yeah

So this is basically not native 4K? PR?

 

[CrayToes]

Please launch this year!

 

[LurkFish17]

This is an old docunment from before e3 isn't it?

 

[MisterXDTV]

lol yeah

So this is basically not native 4K? PR?

There's no way that this thing can do full/true 4K rendering.... Not even sure if Scorpio can....

Sony is looking for the best up-rendering technologies to create a gorgeous experience on 4K sets but it won't be native

 

[Caayn]

Can we for the love of god stop using the bullshit term "uprendering".

 

[Detective]

There's no way that this thing can do full/true 4K rendering.... Not even sure if Scorpio can....

Sony is looking for the best up-rendering technologies to create a gorgeous experience on 4K sets but it won't be native

Seeing the reaction here one would have thought it did. lol

It reminded me of my friends who thought PS4 will do 4K

 

[MisterXDTV]

Can we for the love of god stop using the bullshit term "uprendering".

upscaling + checkerboard rendering, how would you call it?

 

[MilkyJoe]

upscaling + checkerboard rendering, how would you call it?

well it'd be one or the other

 

[Chobel]

Because no forward compatibility means every new console is a reset of the platform. You start from 0 each time.

In a model where development is decoupled from hardware you can start buying ps5 ready games even before the thing launches. So when the console launches which one are you more willing to buy? The one that you already have the games for or the one where even if you want to play the same game you already own you have to buy it again?

And being limited holds no water because you are always releasing new hardware. Ps4 will be able to run early ps5 games just fine, and by the time it's not capable of it would be sunset and neo would be the new baseline.

In the first few years, cross-gen games will be a thing, basically the forward compatibility you're looking for.

And in the bolded text, you know that's pretty much BC, right? I mean a PS4 game running on PS5.

------------
Oh man, "Uprendering" again?

 

[MisterXDTV]

well it'd be one or the other

Much closer means still less than 2160p

 

[FalsettoVibe]

Is this legit? And if so, is it current?

 

[MilkyJoe]

Much closer means still less than 2160p

I'm sure the TV will take care of the rest

 

[pottuvoi]

upscaling + checkerboard rendering, how would you call it?

Rendering into buffer X and custom resolve into higher resolution?

We called it that on ps3 which had few games that used 920x1080 2xMSAA buffer and had a resolve into full 1080p buffer.
It was just pure resolve without any modifications, thus there were some obvious image quality problems.

well it'd be one or the other

Yup, you wouldn't do both.

 

[davidwhangchoi]

i'm going to hold off judgement since these were prior to Scorpio announcement. waiting for some last minute bump in specs, if any.

 

[El-Pistolero]

The latter being inconsequential to the consumer.

The latter is what gets your more exclusives and better deals. You don't know what you're talking about.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Are we sure this is legitimate final specs?

Nobody knows for sure. Nothing can be ruled out, but I'm personally believing this is legit and doubt Sony could change anything substantial even if they wanted to without it costing them a lot time and money. The test kit proto 2 (available in large quantities worldwide) states it is final spec.

Here is a coincidence (or an insight into how Sony operate).

The test kit proto 2 in the doc DUT-TVAH was certified on MIC on May 9th 2016. The equivalent test kit for PS4 DUT-TAH was certified on MIC on May 10th 2013.

A lot in this thread have said that this doc is "old" as in from around March this year or earlier and I'm not really sure why it matters. I would think it takes a year or more to go from the decision of final specs to delivering the consumer model?

 

[JumPeRJumPzZ]

i'm going to hold off judgement since these were prior to Scorpio announcement. waiting for some last minute bump in specs, if any.

we are still hoping for this? They want to launch this before scorpio it wont be near Scorpio specs.

Btw amazon spain listed a new PS4 Model for 400€
http://vgleaks.com/amazon-lists-new-ps4-model-released-october-13-e400/

 

[Raylan]

Scorpio is going to demolish it in performance...

As you can see, Sony doesn't care.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

i'm going to hold off judgement since these were prior to Scorpio announcement. waiting for some last minute bump in specs, if any.

FWIW, Jim Ryan said this about Scorpio when asked:

To talk about progression, there was the Project Scorpio announcement from Microsoft. How does Sony feel about that?

We obviously follow chatter and speculation online and some of it appeared to be fairly well-grounded so there wasn’t too much that was a particular surprise to us. Good luck to them with their strategy and we’ve got our strategy and we’ll pursue that. We’re very happy with the way things are going. Fall 2017 is quite a long way off.

https://www.vg247.com/2016/06/16/ps4-at-e3-we-shouldnt-rely-on-anybody-else-we-should-blaze-a-trail/

 

[Chobel]

I'm sure the TV will take care of the rest

TVs usually offer one upscaling solution which may not suitable for some games, consoles could offer multiple upscaling algorithms and if not devs can always create their own upscaling solution that works best for them.

Some say there's input lag when doing it on TV, but I don't buy it.

 

[MilkyJoe]

The latter is what gets your more exclusives and better deals. You don't know what you're talking about.

Better deals appear to come to the console with the least sales, wouldn't you say?

 

[Chaostar]

Seems like it's going to be a decent stop gap console to fill the next ~3 years until PS5 hits. I'll be upgrading for PSVR mostly as I don't have a 4K TV just yet.

I can't see Sony adding in moar power just because of Scorpio and tbh it really doesn't need it. MS are launching a year later and probably $100 more expensive. Sounds like Sony's PS3 tactic, I don't know what MS are thinking.

 

[dead monkey uk]

Btw amazon spain listed a new PS4 Model for 400€
http://vgleaks.com/amazon-lists-new-ps4-model-released-october-13-e400/

Release Date: October 13, 2016 is the same as PSVR

 

[MisterXDTV]

I'm sure the TV will take care of the rest

TVs support 1080p upscaling or 2160p native, not resolutions in-between that are not standard...

 

[LurkFish17]

Nobody knows for sure. Nothing can be ruled out, but I'm personally believing this is legit and doubt Sony could change anything substantial even if they wanted to without it costing them a lot time and money. The test kit proto 2 (available in large quantities worldwide) states it is final spec.

Here is a coincidence (or an insight into how Sony operate).

The test kit proto 2 in the doc DUT-TVAH was certified on MIC on May 9th 2016. The equivalent test kit for PS4 DUT-TAH was certified on MIC on May 10th 2013.

A lot in this thread have said that this doc is "old" as in from around March this year or earlier and I'm not really sure why it matters. I would think it takes a year or more to go from the decision of final specs to delivering the consumer model?

I don't think it would take that many resources to upclock.

 

[Caayn]

I'm sure the TV will take care of the rest

Upscaling will most likely be done by the Neo itself. Just like how the PS4 (and other consoles) upscale <1080p games to 1080p.

I don't think it would take that many resources to upclock.

It doesn't but you don't clock your parts low for the fun.

When clocking a part you'll need to keep the following in mind:

• Total power draw
• Cooling capabilities
• Not every chip can reach the higher clock speed

 

[MisterXDTV]

Release Date: October 13, 2016 is the same as PSVR

Makes sense, reveal in September (TGS?), release 1 month later, same price of the OG three years ago

 

[otakukidd]

Because no forward compatibility means every new console is a reset of the platform. You start from 0 each time.

In a model where development is decoupled from hardware you can start buying ps5 ready games even before the thing launches. So when the console launches which one are you more willing to buy? The one that you already have the games for or the one where even if you want to play the same game you already own you have to buy it again?

And being limited holds no water because you are always releasing new hardware. Ps4 will be able to run early ps5 games just fine, and by the time it's not capable of it would be sunset and neo would be the new baseline.

It's starting to become a pet peeve when people mix up forward and backwards capability.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I don't think it would take that many resources to upclock.

Upclock to what? From 911MHz to ~1100MHz (~5.5TF)?

To do that would require a complete redesign of the box and cooling system at least. Not a quick fix nor cheap.

Xbox One upped its clocks a tiny amount even though it had a huge box.

 

[LurkFish17]

Upscaling will most likely be done by the Neo itself. Just like how the PS4 (and other consoles) upscale <1080p games to 1080p.
It doesn't but you don't clock your parts low for the fun.

When clocking a part you'll need to keep the following in mind:

• Total power draw
• Cooling capabilities
• Not every chip can reach the higher clock speed

An external power brick and changes to ventilation shouldn't be that complicated to pull off.

 

[LurkFish17]

Upclock to what? From 911MHz to ~1100MHz (~5.5TF)?

To do that would require a complete redesign of the box and cooling system at least. Not a quick fix nor cheap.

Xbox One upped its clocks a tiny amount even though it had a huge box.

Did the xb1s hardware have that much higher to go anyway?

 

[Syrus]

Man I cant wait for Scorpio

 

[mitchman]

Even if everyone had a 4K screen. 4TF isn't anywhere near enough. Upscaling would still be preferable.

Did you read the presentation? They are doing up-rendering which is not as taxing as a full native 4k with 4k textures. It means lines and geometry will be sharper for 4k resolutions, but textures will likely remain the same. This is not a huge extra performance hit as the presentation explains.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Did the xb1s hardware have that much higher to go anyway?

Not sure. A 4-core Jaguar module was in low power notebooks at 2GHz and X1's GPU was similar to Bonaire XT? which was 1GHz.

 

[wesleyshark]

I'm sure the TV will take care of the rest

So it'll get upscaled twice?

 

[LukasTaves]

In the first few years, cross-gen games will be a thing, basically the forward compatibility you're looking for.

And in the bolded text, you know that's pretty much BC, right? I mean a PS4 game running on PS5.

------------
Oh man, "Uprendering" again?

No, I don't mean a ps4 game running on ps5, I mean ps5 and ps4 being the same game, that you only need to buy once.

That's what ms is promising, and that's explicitly what Sony said it wouldn't do (though I bet they will).

 

[justsomeguy]

Did you read the presentation? They are doing up-rendering which is not as taxing as a full native 4k with 4k textures. It means lines and geometry will be sharper for 4k resolutions, but textures will likely remain the same. This is not a huge extra performance hit as the presentation explains.

I got a demo of the JVC projector with its "fake 4k" and it looked bloody awesome, even side-by-side on a 3m wide screen with a real 4k image.

However for a huge number of scenarios (=most living rooms) the difference between true 4k and "higher than 1080p but not 4k" is going to be indistinguishable. Put me in the camp that says give me 1080p or fake 4k with better frame rates and effects than true native 4k.

Might all change once I see real 4k games running - but that's how I feel about it right now.

 

[justsomeguy]

Everything you wrote is something OsirisBlack has posted and someone else on the "journalist" side has told me in one way, shape, or form. Right now Sony is being very quiet about Neo - and I find it really strange that we are this close to launch and they are still "mum" on the entire thing.

You think they're re-thinking the neo power? (thinking specifically the cpu bump - but maybe doing something on the gpu?)

 

[flkraven]

I hope Neo comes out at a decent price, causing the OG PS4 price to tank so I can scoop one up.

 

[wesleyshark]

I hope Neo comes out at a decent price, causing the OG PS4 price to tank so I can scoop one up.

According to the Amazon leak today, €399

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

No, I don't mean a ps4 game running on ps5, I mean ps5 and ps4 being the same game, that you only need to buy once.

That's what ms is promising, and that's explicitly what Sony said it wouldn't do (though I bet they will).

it better be the same game, it would be stupid to consumers to have 2 different versions. especially if people upgrade later.

 

[wapplew]

No, I don't mean a ps4 game running on ps5, I mean ps5 and ps4 being the same game, that you only need to buy once.

That's what ms is promising, and that's explicitly what Sony said it wouldn't do (though I bet they will).

No thanks, MS can keep that forward compatible to themselve, I want my shiny PS5 exclusive.

 

[greenegt]

I got a demo of the JVC projector with its "fake 4k" and it looked bloody awesome, even side-by-side on a 3m wide screen with a real 4k image.

However for a huge number of scenarios (=most living rooms) the difference between true 4k and "higher than 1080p but not 4k" is going to be indistinguishable. Put me in the camp that says give me 1080p or fake 4k with better frame rates and effects than true native 4k.

Might all change once I see real 4k games running - but that's how I feel about it right now.

I feel the same. To be honest, stable frame rates is what I'm looking forward to the most (fingers crossed). Sure, make the game as pretty as you can, but it's the stable frame rate that really makes a game feel polished, imo.

 

[otakukidd]

No, I don't mean a ps4 game running on ps5, I mean ps5 and ps4 being the same game, that you only need to buy once.

That's what ms is promising, and that's explicitly what Sony said it wouldn't do (though I bet they will).

Me buying uncharted 4 and then playing it on the ps5 would mean I only bought it once. Why we would you want the ps5 to be shackled to a device that came out in 2013. Only thing I could see them doing is when the ps5 comes out that ps4 games released near it would be required to have a neo+ mode where ps4 games would look even better on the ps5 than neo.

 

[MilkyJoe]

This post is completely unsurprising coming from you.

WHAT A SHOCKER

a case in point

Me buying uncharted 4 and then playing it on the ps5 would mean I only bought it once. Why we would you want the ps5 to be shackled to a device that came out in 2013. Only thing I could see them doing is when the ps5 comes out that ps4 games released near it would be required to have a neo+ mode where ps4 games would look even better on the ps5 than neo.

It's not really shackled though, any more so than a 4K ultra version of Battlefront is shackled to Xbone.

 

[Massa]

No thanks, MS can keep that forward compatible to themselve, I want my shiny PS5 exclusive.

You can want things, but games will be made for both PS4 and PS5 no matter what. It would be pretty bad for PS users if you have to buy them separately while all Xbox versions come in the same package.

Me buying uncharted 4 and then playing it on the ps5 would mean I only bought it once. Why we would you want the ps5 to be shackled to a device that came out in 2013. Only thing I could see them doing is when the ps5 comes out that ps4 games released near it would be required to have a neo+ mode where ps4 games would look even better on the ps5 than neo.

Those games will be made with the PS4 in mind no matter how Sony decides to sell them. In fact, some developers won't target higher than PS4 specs for another decade or more, simply because they don't need it. Games that push hardware specs and production values to their limit is increasingly the minority.

 

[Pif]

PSNeo games with "close to 4k" aka 1440p is gonna look better than Scorpio's games if microsoft is really keen on pushing "true 4k" out of 6Tf.

Interesting times ahead.