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[HandsomeCharles]

Legally? Of course. Doesn't make it a smart move though (if it's confirmed(. The Metroid fan base is starving as there hasn't been a decent Metroid game in 9 years (Metroid Prime 3, 6 years if you count Other M)). A fan comes a long and gives them a full and absolutely free remake of Metroid 2 to celebrate the 30th anniversary. On PC. And Nintendo (apparently) takes it down.

Does that really sound smart to you?

Btw, I absolutely don't hate Federation Force, kinda looking forward to it by now. Still, I don't blame the community feeling mocked by Nintendo when they announced this game.

Yes, because if they didn't defend their copyright and trademarks (And let's be clear about this, no matter how lovely and well-intentioned this fan project was, it is copyright infringement) it substantially weakens their case if more unscrupulous groups were to try to profit from the Metroid IP.

It's shit, but this is exactly how copyright and trademarks work. If you don't defend it, you lose it.

Now, what I would criticise them for is their reluctance to enter into licensing agreements with fans. I know that sounds very corporate, and to a large extent they want to protect the quality of their brands, but by having a formal licensing procedure for "fan projects" (i.e Not for profit, but legally goes through the right hoops) messes like this could be avoided and everyone could be happy.

 

[Oddish1]

Legally? Of course. Doesn't make it a smart move though (if it's confirmed to be legit). The Metroid fan base is starving as there hasn't been a decent Metroid game in 9 years (Metroid Prime 3, 6 years if you count Other M)). A fan comes along and gives them a full and absolutely free remake of Metroid 2 to celebrate the 30th anniversary whcih has been in the works for over 10 years. On PC. And Nintendo (apparently) takes it down.

Does that really sound smart to you?

Btw, I absolutely don't hate Federation Force, kinda looking forward to it by now. Still, I don't blame the community feeling mocked by Nintendo when they announced this game.

Yes. Someone is offering a free version of a game that Nintendo still sells, it's not surprising or outrageous that Nintendo would take issue with this.

 

[ShadowOwl]

It's shit, but this is exactly how copyright and trademarks work. If you don't defend it, you lose it.

Do you have some kind or article or video which elaborates on that? Just would like to get more information on the matter.

 

[Azure Phoenix]

Yes, because if they didn't defend their copyright and trademarks (And let's be clear about this, no matter how lovely and well-intentioned this fan project was, it is copyright infringement) it substantially weakens their case if more unscrupulous groups were to try to profit from the Metroid IP.

It's shit, but this is exactly how copyright and trademarks work. If you don't defend it, you lose it.

Now, what I would criticise them for is their reluctance to enter into licensing agreements with fans. I know that sounds very corporate, and to a large extent they want to protect the quality of their brands, but by having a formal licensing procedure for "fan projects" (i.e Not for profit, but legally goes through the right hoops) messes like this could be avoided and everyone could be happy.

People have been making Sonic fangames for decades, most using assets from official releases and some being full remakes like this. Sega not only has never once cared, but now with Sonic Mania they're actively getting fans to make Sonic games for them. You can't tell me that in a court they'd be stripped of the Sonic IP for not protecting it.

 

[ShadowOwl]

People have been making Sonic fangames for decades, most using assets from official releases and some being full remakes like this. Sega not only has never once cared, but now with Sonic Mania they're actively getting fans to make Sonic games for them. You can't tell me that in a court they'd be stripped of the Sonic IP for not protecting it.

Then again Sega took down Streets of Rage Remake (it didn't stop the game from being distributed though).

 

[PapaJustify]

They have to do this to legally protect their IP.

It's not necessarily because Nintendo are a bunch of assholes, maybe they even like that Metroid remake, but they simply have to protect their IP more than many others. It was the same with the WoW vanilla servers that Blizzard had to take down a few months ago.

 

[Azure Phoenix]

Then again Sega took down Streets of Rage Remake (it didn't stop the game from being distributed though).

That's slightly more understandable, they haven't used the IP for over 20 years.

 

[Metal B]

People have been making Sonic fangames for decades, most using assets from official releases and some being full remakes like this. Sega not only has never once cared, but now with Sonic Mania they're actively getting fans to make Sonic games for them. You can't tell me that in a court they'd be stripped of the Sonic IP for not protecting it.

They didn't get as much media coverage then this Metroid Fan-Game. Nintendo very likely would have done nothing, if it stayed under the surface. Another reason why they acted so late with the takedown.

And nobody cares for Sonic.

 

[DSix]

Gotta defend your IP, but wait until the game finishes so it can hit unofficial torrents before slapping the C&D.

IP gets defended, meanwhile the game's distributed beyond reasonable takedowns. Everybody wins.

That's my understanding of the situation. Nintendo are good guys in this.

 

[HandsomeCharles]

Do you have some kind or article or video which elaborates on that? Just would like to get more information on the matter.

I'm afraid I don't have any to hand. My knowledge has been picked up from various discussions and AMA's on the /r/gamedev subreddit. Actually just did a little google and found this. Looks like I was getting my wires crossed between Trademarks and Copyright in regards to losing it if you fail to defend. Similar situation though.

People have been making Sonic fangames for decades, most using assets from official releases and some being full remakes like this. Sega not only has never once cared, but now with Sonic Mania they're actively getting fans to make Sonic games for them. You can't tell me that in a court they'd be stripped of the Sonic IP for not protecting it.

I really don't know. I'm actually going to ask about this the next time the opportunity arises. I imagine that with Sega's financial ability it wouldn't pose too much of an issue, but I don't think it would help their case.

 

[MekaDragon]

Nintendo keeps being an asshole.

Anyway, Internet will deliver this time. Nintendo can't face the whole Internet.

I'm glad I've downloaded it before the close. Now I will distribute it as far as possible.

 

[Comfort Jones]

Valve let Black Mesa be sold by the team that made it ffs. They should leave this thing alone honestly the IP is better for it.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Poor form. I get it but come now.

 

[Conan-san]

Why would Nintendo want to do anything less than scrub AM2R off the map? At this point they could save all the puppies in the world and some little shit is going to saunter up and say "But Federation Force, tho."

 

[Shiggy]

How is this surprising? They remade a game that Nintendo is still selling. This is Nintendo after all, they don't care about fan projects (or their fans).

 

[Hesemonni]

Happy anniversary, Metroid!

This kinda made me cry and laught at the same time.

 

[Agent_Carnage]

People have been making Sonic fangames for decades, most using assets from official releases and some being full remakes like this. Sega not only has never once cared, but now with Sonic Mania they're actively getting fans to make Sonic games for them. You can't tell me that in a court they'd be stripped of the Sonic IP for not protecting it.

Agreed. With Sonic the fan made games are way better than the new crap released by Sega. At that point Sega brought in the guy who made the Mobile ports of Sonic CD and Sonic 2 and let him make it as that guy made better stuff than what Sega did.

No one is going to lose an IP if someone makes a fan game for Free. Nintendo should of praised them and offered some help porting that game to the Eshop. Easy money for Nintendo.

Remember that old slogan...

Sega does what Nintendont...

 

[RowdyReverb]

Cat's out of the bag since the torrent is available. They are going to have a very tough time keeping the game from being distributed. Why even bother?

 

[Agent_Carnage]

That's my understanding of the situation. Nintendo are good guys in this.

In what universe is Nintendo the good guy in all of this? I would understand if the people were selling for money this but it took 10 years to make for FREE.

How exactly does Nintendo lose money from this? If anything it makes people more aware of the actual thing. As the Metroid name has low equity at this point.

 

[Rehynn]

How exactly does Nintendo lose money from this?

The game is available on Virtual Console. For money.

 

[Rich!]

The game is available on Virtual Console. For money.

But that's for all intents and purposes a completely different game.

I can't believe some people assume this is a 1:1 translation of Metroid 2. I've played through both and AM2R is almost unrecognisable.

 

[KarmaCow]

The game is available on Virtual Console. For money.

AMR2 diverges from Metroid II almost moreso than Zero Mission compared to the original Metroid.

 

[Agent_Carnage]

The game is available on Virtual Console. For money.

Ill ask you this. People who download this are probably fans of the series. There for probably already downloaded the real Metroid 2 at some point.

Metroid 2 has been on the eshop for a long time now and if anyone wanted to probably already has it. Also how is this fan game doing to detract from the Original?

If anything if the average joe downloads this and likes what he sees he would download the other games from the Eshop.

 

[Agent_Carnage]

To the people who say Nintendo would lose the IP. What about the many many Sonic Fan Games out there?

 

[Azure Dream]

The divide between Nintendo and their fans, especially outside of Japan, couldn't be wider.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

Nintendo hits a Metroid fansite with a DMCA Takedown notice

What are they fucking stupid? I mean, seriously, the game is free and meant to be free from the very start, so who's violating what exactly?

The game is available on Virtual Console. For money.

But remake is free, no one selling it for real money and...

AMR2 diverges from Metroid II almost moreso than Zero Mission compared to the original Metroid.

...this.

 

[PtM]

To the people who say Nintendo would lose the IP. What about the many many Sonic Fan Games out there?

They're mistaking copyright for trademark.
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

Maybe this takedown really is about trademark?

AMR2 diverges from Metroid II almost moreso than Zero Mission compared to the original Metroid.

Funnily enough, I've read the exact opposite on here.

 

[Diprosalic]

What are they fucking stupid? I mean, seriously, the game is free and meant to be free from the very start, so who's violating what exactly?


But remake is free, no one selling it for real money and...


...this.

they're offering something they sell for free online and using their characters, that's a violation right there.

quoting this great post by LinconInTunnel:

This isn't really a Transformative Work at all by copyright standards. It's essentially a shot for shot remake of a game that Nintendo is offering for sale, being offered for free online, utilizing copyrighted characters. From a legal standpoint the creators of the remake have no leg to stand on. The remake is not being used as a commentary on the original work. It's not parody. The aesthetic differences and improvements decrease the value of the original piece rather than enhance it. It has a potentially direct impact on the market value of the original. It doesn't matter that they're not making a profit on it, just that it has the potential to affect Nintendo's profits from it.

Yeah, they called the game "Project AM2R", but it blatantly says on the website that it's an initialism for "Another Metroid 2 Remake". The game is hosted at metroid2remake.blogspot.com. It doesn't matter if they rip the actual assets. they're using the same characters and the same story. They still refer to the enemies as Metroids. Hell, the subtitle of the game is still "Return of Samus". It sucks, because it seems like it's a pretty cool remake, but people don't really have any right to be upset or surprised at this. You can't just freely use somebody else's IP because you're a fan. Using disclaimers like "Fan Remake" don't give you the right to use a copyrighted IP.

 

[Rich!]

they're offering something they sell for free online and using their characters, that's a violation right there.

No they are not.

Have you even seen or played AMR2 or are you just assuming it's a 1:1 port of Metroid 2?

 

[Ridley327]

So, Metroid Database is still offering up multiple links to the game as of this morning. Are we sure this is legit anymore?

 

[HandsomeCharles]

Very good article here from 2011 that sheds some more light on the situation copyright/trademark holders are in.

Some key points:

Unfortunately, by ignoring these infringements companies would be putting their hard-earned trade marks and copyrights in danger. "If a company was to continually ignore infringements of a trade mark, the protection afforded by the mark is eroded and may render it invalid," Tutty explains. Essentially, if Sega let

Streets of Rage Remake live, it'd have a harder time arguing its case if a real, bonafide rip-off of the beat 'em up emerged. The same goes for copyright.

"Once the infringement of IP is ignored it becomes increasingly hard to recover lost ground," Tutty says. It's a not-so-simple case of use it or lose it.

What about Valve, the Washington-based creator of Half Life and Portal, which has embraced the eternally-delayed Half Life 1 remake, Black Mesa Source? In a 2007 news post, the firm said, "We're as eager to play it here as everyone else."

By acknolweding its existence, and publically endorsing it, Valve could argue that it made an implied licence. "By taking steps to acknowledge the specific fan game and publicise this," Tutty says, "Valve has made this endorsement specific to one game, rather than a general blanket ignoring of all infringements."

 

[Diprosalic]

No they are not.

Have you even seen or played AMR2 or are you just assuming it's a 1:1 port of Metroid 2?

they are not using Samus? They don't advertise it as a Metroid 2 remake? What are the Metroids called in this? doesn't matter if it's not exactly 1:1

 

[Agent_Carnage]

they are not using Samus? They don't advertise it as a Metroid 2 remake? What are the Metroids called in this? doesn't matter if it's not exactly 1:1

Its way WAY different from the real Metroid 2. I just started and have encountered a mini boss that was not in the real Metroid 2.

This game is NOT 1 to 1 remake.

It really feels like I am playing a brand new game.

 

[Agent_Carnage]

Very good article here from 2011 that sheds some more light on the situation copyright/trademark holders are in.

Some key points:

How does not defending the IP to the T erode the IP?

 

[HandsomeCharles]

How does not defending the IP to the T erode the IP?

Let's look at this exact case.

We have a Metroid Fan-game that has been made with all the best intentions. It's not trying to make any money, it's just done purely for the love of the IP. Unfortunately, legally, this is no different from someone ripping off Metroid maliciously with the intent of making a profit. There is no distinction between the two from a legal standpoint.

Now, if a malicious rip-off was released and Nintendo had not taken legal action against the fan-game, then that could be used against them by the rip-off developers. Essentially it's saying "You didn't stop these guys from doing it, so we shouldn't be made to stop either".

This is why companies end up being such (for lack of a better word) dickheads when it comes to fan-projects. There is no legal distinction between fan-games and rip-offs so all infringements of their copyright must be treated the same, and in this cases it is better for the IP holder to treat them as malicious. I mean, can you imagine if Nintendo lost control of something like Mario (Which is probably an IP worth billions of dollars) simply because they allowed someone to make a fan-game? That could (and probably would) end the company. It's simply not worth it.

The system is horrible. It's not in any way suitable for the age we live in, but it is what it is, and companies need to play by the rules or face the consequences.

Licensing on the other hand is what could be done, but again it costs a lot of money to get these things legally water-tight, which in all honesty probably isn't worth the cost for those holding the IP, especially when they won't receive any money back from it in the end.

 

[Agent_Carnage]

Let's look at this exact case.

We have a Metroid Fan-game that has been made with all the best intentions. It's not trying to make any money, it's just done purely for the love of the IP. Unfortunately, legally, this is no different from someone ripping off Metroid maliciously with the intent of making a profit. There is no distinction between the two from a legal standpoint.

Now, if a malicious rip-off was released and Nintendo had not taken legal action against the fan-game, then that could be used against them by the rip-off developers. Essentially it's saying "You didn't stop these guys from doing it, so we shouldn't be made to stop either".

This is why companies end up being such (for lack of a better word) dickheads when it comes to fan-projects. There is no legal distinction between fan-games and rip-offs so all infringements of their copyright must be treated the same, and in this cases it is better for the IP holder to treat them as malicious. I mean, can you imagine if Nintendo lost control of something like Mario (Which is probably an IP worth billions of dollars) simply because they allowed someone to make a fan-game? That could (and probably would) end the company. It's simply not worth it.

The system is horrible. It's not in any way suitable for the age we live in, but it is what it is, and companies need to play by the rules or face the consequences.

Licensing on the other hand is what could be done, but again it costs a lot of money to get these things legally water-tight, which in all honesty probably isn't worth the cost for those holding the IP, especially when they won't receive any money back from it in the end.

That still makes no sense. If thats the case Sonic would be long gone from Sega at this point. Nintendo isnt going to lose an IP due to some fan games.

If you can show me a case where fan games made a company lose an IP I'd be more willing to believe you.

Also what about reproduction games?

 

[dark10x]

We have a Metroid Fan-game that has been made with all the best intentions. It's not trying to make any money, it's just done purely for the love of the IP. Unfortunately, legally, this is no different from someone ripping off Metroid maliciously with the intent of making a profit. There is no distinction between the two from a legal standpoint.

Now, if a malicious rip-off was released and Nintendo had not taken legal action against the fan-game, then that could be used against them by the rip-off developers. Essentially it's saying "You didn't stop these guys from doing it, so we shouldn't be made to stop either".

I'd like to see a study on this to see long term consequences with Nintendo representing upholding IP to the letter of the law and Valve basically letting fans do as they please.

Valve has allowed the community to create games based on its IP time and time again even going so far as to enabling them to sell said games on its own store front. I'd be curious to see what sort of impact that may have had.

Or Sega, which has allowed Sonic fan games to exist without issue (though they did take action against the Streets of Rage remake thing, for some reason).

 

[Timedog]

I want a 2d sprite Metroid with a huge budget and Nintendo's A team working on it. Make the perfect game again.

 

[Boney]

I really enjoyed the Iwata quote about fan projects like these being a way for fans to express their love for their series.

 

[dark10x]

I want a 2d sprite Metroid with a huge budget and Nintendo's A team working on it. Make the perfect game again.

I love 2D Metroid and would certainly enjoy another but...I'd even go so far as to say I'd prefer a proper attempt at another Metroid Prime style game. Technology has come a LONG way and I think it could be incredible.

 

[GhostTrick]

I love 2D Metroid and would certainly enjoy another but...I'd even go so far as to say I'd prefer a proper attempt at another Metroid Prime style game. Technology has come a LONG way and I think it could be incredible.

Why not BOTH ?
Why can't we have another Metroid Prime pushing the boundaries of technologies... and a 2D Metroid pushing the boundaries of 2D and amazing artstyle and lighting ?

 

[LordRaptor]

I'd like to see a study on this to see long term consequences with Nintendo representing upholding IP to the letter of the law and Valve basically letting fans do as they please.

ehhhhh I think you're oversimplifying.
Valve are pretty lax with people using the HL modtools and assets to create HL mods, but those mods are still dependent upon purchasing HL and loading them through it, so its not exactly a million miles away from saying Mario Maker 'lets fans do as they please'.

If you made a UE4 standalone FPS using the TF2 assets, I am pretty sure you would be contacted by Valves lawyers.

 

[TheDinoman]

Why not BOTH ?
Why can't we have another Metroid Prime pushing the boundaries of technologies... and a 2D Metroid pushing the boundaries of 2D and amazing artstyle and lighting ?

The problem is, both the big cheeses from each half of Metroid (Sakamoto and Tanabe) don't seem very interested in that. Sakamoto expressed disinterest in returning to the series and Tanabe seems really hellbent on making Metroid Prime focus so much on the Galactic Federation and other people that aren't Samus.

 

[dark10x]

ehhhhh I think you're oversimplifying.
Valve are pretty lax with people using the HL modtools and assets to create HL mods, but those mods are still dependent upon purchasing HL and loading them through it, so its not exactly a million miles away from saying Mario Maker 'lets fans do as they please'.

If you made a UE4 standalone FPS using the TF2 assets, I am pretty sure you would be contacted by Valves lawyers.

...and Sega? They literally hired a guy to work on Sonic games based on the strength of his "from the ground up" engine.

Why not BOTH ?
Why can't we have another Metroid Prime pushing the boundaries of technologies... and a 2D Metroid pushing the boundaries of 2D and amazing artstyle and lighting ?

If we could have another Prime/Fusion dual launch, man, that would be insane.

 

[Rodin]

So, Metroid Database is still offering up multiple links to the game as of this morning. Are we sure this is legit anymore?

It never was. The game was always up (and still is) on the author website.

 

[KingBroly]

I'd like to see a study on this to see long term consequences with Nintendo representing upholding IP to the letter of the law and Valve basically letting fans do as they please.

Valve has allowed the community to create games based on its IP time and time again even going so far as to enabling them to sell said games on its own store front. I'd be curious to see what sort of impact that may have had.

Or Sega, which has allowed Sonic fan games to exist without issue (though they did take action against the Streets of Rage remake thing, for some reason).

Valve gets a cut of the money fangames using their IP's sell on Steam because it's Valve's storefront. Nintendo isn't making a dime from fangames released for free on PC. There's a world of difference there.

 

[Peterc]

Nintendo really hates Metroid fans huh.

Maybe there is one in the make

 

[JoeFu]

So...

Site is still up, game is still available for download, and most people are still overreacting and drive by posting. Pretty cool.

 

[HandsomeCharles]

That still makes no sense. If thats the case Sonic would be long gone from Sega at this point. Nintendo isnt going to lose an IP due to some fan games.

If you can show me a case where fan games made a company lose an IP I'd be more willing to believe you.

Also what about reproduction games?

Sorry dude, I can't understand why this doesn't make sense to you. These are the rules.

When a Jury is deciding one something such as an infringement case, they aren't comprised of experts in the field. They probably won't understand the difference between fan-games and rip-offs, and if it is brought up that "X" was allowed to exist when it fits the same criteria as "Y", that Jury may well end up siding with the infringing party. Any cases of trademark or copyright infringement left undefended weaken the case of the owner in subsequent defences. (IIRC there is some wiggle room for cases where it would have been incredibly difficult for the owner to know about the infringement)

I don't have any examples for you in games, but here's a big list of trademarks that have been lost due to them becoming "generic". They were not defended by their owners and are now in the public domain.

It's important to note as well that "losing" the IP is probably the wrong word. I mean that they owner has no legal ground to prevent anyone else from using their IP.

Also, I really don't know what the deal is with Sonic, but I'm going to try to find out. I'd imagine that in an industry such as this, where (until relatively recently) people needed significant funding in order to make a game, ripping off one of the most iconic and recognisable characters in the medium was not a solid business plan. The Legal costs would be staggering. However, Considering the number of (non-gaming) companies that have lost IP due to failing to take action, I would say the "sonic-state" is an exception rather than a solid basis for a counter-argument.

Finally, I don't know what you mean about reproduction-games. You'll need to elaborate on that one.

 

[dark10x]

Valve gets a cut of the money fangames using their IP's sell on Steam because it's Valve's storefront. Nintendo isn't making a dime from fangames released for free on PC. There's a world of difference there.

Again, Sonic fan games. What say you?

Valve embraced those people in a way that made it work for all parties, right?

I recognize the difference, it's obvious, but I'm not sure if Nintendo's approach is actually doing anything for them.