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[BRocknRolla]

Why don't they just do what Microsoft does and change an inactive account to some random name nobody would really want like BeefSalad2994283 so your 'name' is freed up for use again but you don't lose your purchases?

Presumably, it's a harder problem to address for them due to the way they set up their databases. That would obviously be the ideal though. They've certainly said they're working on it, but who knows what kind of progress, if any, has been made in that direction.

Raises an interesting question about our "all digital future." How long are companies beholden to hanging onto and letting you access content? Does a company need to keep it's servers running in perpetuity to maintain an account that no one has touched for a decade? Obviously as is the case with physical goods, the burden is on the purchaser, and those items would most likely wear out over time. Are we going to hold companies selling digitals goods to allowing access forever? 2 years is clearly too short a period of time here for an actively ongoing service, but it is an interesting bigger question to consider.

 

[Koren]

Considering renaming your account on PSN is impossible, I doubt they can even do that.

It would take a huge amount of work to even design a system that don't allow renaming a login.

The fact that they don't want to write the software to do it is another matter entirely.

 

[STEaMkb]

This is misleading. Is the OP not going to update the first post?

 

[TheBaldEmperor]

I have a PSP Go for PS1 games and a few retail games. Haven't logged in to that account in probably 3 or 4 years. Just logged in and it's still active.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

If you haven't been active for more than 24 months, might as well forget you even had PSN.

why, I'm not planning to use PSN for anything in the foreseeable feature and haven't since the PS4, should I lose all my games on there and on my Vita because of it? I still have both.

 

[RichiRamjag]

why, I'm not planning to use PSN for anything in the foreseeable feature and haven't since the PS4, should I lose all my games on there and on my Vita because of it? I still have both.

Is there precedent to this actually happening? My three old unused account had all its content when I logged in today. It's been in the terms of service for 7 years supposedly, has never happened, and now folks are trying to make something out of it suddenly.

 

[Melchiah]

I was about to check if my Japanese account is still there, but I can't remember the password. The US account was still active, when I accessed it after a couple of years. It's no big deal to me if they'd be erased, as I just used them for region-specific demos.

 

[Aiustis]

I have logged into mine, but I've not bought anything.

I still have money in my wallet.

 

[EvB]

This is so they can free up PSN names isn't it?

 

[Lightning]

I have no issue with this excerpt I don't think it's legal to take access away to contents or games that an account has already purchased.

 

[kjacobson]

What. The. Actual. Fuck.

It's shit like this that needs to make the headlines on gaming websites, so it can blow up. Unbelievable.

 

[EmeraldSwords]

Is there precedent to this actually happening? My three old unused account had all its content when I logged in today. It's been in the terms of service for 7 years supposedly, has never happened, and now folks are trying to make something out of it suddenly.

They haven't done anything like removing inactive accounts. They shouldn't have too, the more accounts, the better their bottom line is.

Removing accounts is counter productive to their marketing.
These terms have been set way before Ps4, so people all up and arms shouldn't need to worry.

 

[Three]

Could you theoretically sign in on the web every two years?

In any case if this has been in the TOS for 7 years and nothing has happened I doubt anything ever will especially with the "may" and the "if within the law" part are anything to go by. If anything things have gotten better legally speaking.


2009:
http://web.archive.org/web/20091012...laystation.net/ps3-eula/psn/e/e_tosua_en.html

We reserve the right to cancel your account if it has not been used for 18 months.

Now it's 24 months

http://legaldoc.dl.playstation.net/ps3-eula/psn/e/e_tosua_en.html

You may close your Account by contacting us using the details below. We may close your Account if it has not been used for at least 24 months.

... because you hadn't agreed to these terms 4 years ago?
This looks like it will only start happening going forward.

No, you're simply wrong.

edit: Ops, this has been covered already

 

[Xander Crews]

You are being paranoid. Nowhere does it say they're going to ban people from purchases they've already made, and there isn't a single example of this happening even though this has been in the ToS for the best part of a decade.

Agreed. And even if the TOS allow them to do so, you have to remember that companies like money, which means they like having you as a customer, so it's not in their best interest to fuck with your trust by mass deleting a bunch of purchases. Think about it.

 

[Reszo]

One more reason for me not to go digital on my console.

 

[TeddyShardik]

Isn't that kind of thing pretty widespread? I'm sure I've read that several times already when making accounts for MMOs and the like.
I wouldn't worry too much about it.

 

[Briarios]

Considering you can log in from your phone, it doesn't seem that requesting you check in once every two years to keep your account active is asking a lot.

 

[leeh]

It would take a huge amount of work to even design a system that don't allow renaming a login.

The fact that they don't want to write the software to do it is another matter entirely.

Basically, it came out that in PSN's data model it uses the username as the primary key. Can't change that key unless you turn foreign key constraints off in the DB as it'll be linked to absolutely everywhere. Doing that is an ultimate no-no and would basically bork all your production DB's.

Absolutely laughable architecture. I hope whoever created that aren't with them anymore. It also means unless they start PSN from the ground up, it'll always be that way.

 

[EGM1966]

Is this unusual? Wouldn't all online services have this as a catch all to purge inactive users? I doubt they'd delete any accounts without a warning.

 

[//ARCANUM]

To everyone saying it's not a big deal (and sorry if this has already been mentioned), but what about someone in the military? Say they have a PS4 with digital purchases at home. Then they get deployed and are gone for 2 years. Get back home and the account is theoretically closed?

That's kind of a big deal (if sony actually acted upon their TOS).

edit - also, what about the whole "preserving digital games"? Say it's 10 years from now, and I have digital PS4 games that I haven't played in years that I want to play and maybe I haven't used a Sony product in 5 years. So I go to play it (like I'd play a SNES now for example) and then BAM account gone.... that kinda sucks a lot right?

 

[Gravy Boat]

To everyone saying it's not a big deal (and sorry if this has already been mentioned), but what about someone in the military? Say they have a PS4 with digital purchases at home. Then they get deployed and are gone for 2 years. Get back home and the account is theoretically closed?

That's kind of a big deal (if sony actually acted upon their TOS).

edit - also, what about the whole "preserving digital games"? Say it's 10 years from now, and I have digital PS4 games that I haven't played in years that I want to play and maybe I haven't used a Sony product in 5 years. So I go to play it (like I'd play a SNES now for example) and then BAM account gone.... that kinda sucks a lot right?

It's not a big deal because it's been in the ToS for 7 years already. All they did was change it from 18 months to 24 months. So if anything it's actually better for consumers now.

Regardless, you're making a whole load of assumptions here. What makes you think they'll close accounts that have purchases on them? It's far more logical to assume they're talking about accounts that have had 0 activity. I mean, it's been said already. This has been in their ToS for 7 years and I haven't seen a single person say they've lost their purchases because of this.

Your example would suck, but your example is far from being a likely result of this.

 

[EGM1966]

To everyone saying it's not a big deal (and sorry if this has already been mentioned), but what about someone in the military? Say they have a PS4 with digital purchases at home. Then they get deployed and are gone for 2 years. Get back home and the account is theoretically closed?

That's kind of a big deal (if sony actually acted upon their TOS).

edit - also, what about the whole "preserving digital games"? Say it's 10 years from now, and I have digital PS4 games that I haven't played in years that I want to play and maybe I haven't used a Sony product in 5 years. So I go to play it (like I'd play a SNES now for example) and then BAM account gone.... that kinda sucks a lot right?

While I'm big on consumer side of things commercial businesses clearly need something to balance taking the onus for storing all our stuff if it seems we don't actually want it anymore. Digital is a particularly thorny issue and of course no business has to preserve its to past if it doesn't want to. Ultimately it'll fall to others to preserve what companies don't want to themselves.

That said people are assuming worse case when there doesn't seem any evidence Sony would auto delete your account first second you're past the time period.

Personally I'm not a fan of the rush to digital before stuff like this is clear but consumer markets often gallop ahead of legal scenarios.

I've got PT plus some gems stored on my old PS3 plus a ton of old games on my PC so I'm doing my part!

 

[TeddyShardik]

To everyone saying it's not a big deal (and sorry if this has already been mentioned), but what about someone in the military? Say they have a PS4 with digital purchases at home. Then they get deployed and are gone for 2 years. Get back home and the account is theoretically closed?

That's kind of a big deal (if sony actually acted upon their TOS).

edit - also, what about the whole "preserving digital games"? Say it's 10 years from now, and I have digital PS4 games that I haven't played in years that I want to play and maybe I haven't used a Sony product in 5 years. So I go to play it (like I'd play a SNES now for example) and then BAM account gone.... that kinda sucks a lot right?

Yeah that would suck but that 24 months is most likely not a hard line limit. They just have it in thwir TOS to ensure they could do it if necessary legaly.
As I've said above I'm pretty sure I've read the same thing on MMO accounts before but the only one I've even got a notice about is my ancient WoW account.

I view this as a. legal security measure for exceptional circumstances, not a hard rule.

 

[Fortinbras]

Good idea

Why?

 

[inpHilltr8r]

It also means unless they start PSN from the ground up, it'll always be that way.

Nah, you can migrate out of cock-ups like that. It'd take a lot of time and effort though.

 

[Head.spawn]

My account is probably gone if that's the case.

 

[Koren]

Basically, it came out that in PSN's data model it uses the username as the primary key. Can't change that key unless you turn foreign key constraints off in the DB as it'll be linked to absolutely everywhere. Doing that is an ultimate no-no and would basically bork all your production DB's.

It maks things harder, but not impossible.

Even without modifying the structure, you could always recreate an account with a different name and switch the keys in all the tables/copy the data...

But yes, that's dumb to use the login as the primary key.

 

[Melchiah]

It's not a big deal because it's been in the ToS for 7 years already. All they did was change it from 18 months to 24 months. So if anything it's actually better for consumers now.

Regardless, you're making a whole load of assumptions here. What makes you think they'll close accounts that have purchases on them? It's far more logical to assume they're talking about accounts that have had 0 activity. I mean, it's been said already. This has been in their ToS for 7 years and I haven't seen a single person say they've lost their purchases because of this.

Your example would suck, but your example is far from being a likely result of this.

This. I wouldn't be surprised if one of my foreign accounts got erased, as there's no activity on either. No trophies, no purchases, no friends. I'd be surprised if they'd erase an account with all three of the above.

 

[StereoVsn]

I have no issue with this excerpt I don't think it's legal to take access away to contents or games that an account has already purchased.

Wouldn't they get sued in Europe at least?

 

[Hoo-doo]

Doesn't every account system have this? Xbox live also regularly prunes old 'abandoned' accounts.

Microsoft will free up 1 million Xbox gamertags this week


I doubt they are actually deleting accounts that have trophies or bought items.

 

[StereoVsn]

Doesn't every account system have this? Xbox live also regularly prunes old 'abandoned' accounts.

Microsoft will free up 1 million Xbox gamertags this week


I doubt they are actually deleting accounts that have trophies or bought items.

No account deletions are occurring here. They are renaming he NIC to some generic ID.

 

[RichiRamjag]

What. The. Actual. Fuck.

It's shit like this that needs to make the headlines on gaming websites, so it can blow up. Unbelievable.

It hasn't happened in the 7 years that it's been policy, so what would they report?

 

[Thebeardofknowledge]

This is idiotic. What if someone skips a generation? Lose all their digital content? How much space does an account with digital licenses take on your servers Sony holy shit just fucking upgrade them.

... because you hadn't agreed to these terms 4 years ago?
This looks like it will only start happening going forward.

MS does this to where's your outrage against them ? Hmmm

 

[DeepEnigma]

It hasn't happened in the 7 years that it's been policy, so what would they report?

The most important post in here to this point. But I do sense a policy change in the future.

 

[CHC]

What. The. Actual. Fuck.

It's shit like this that needs to make the headlines on gaming websites, so it can blow up. Unbelievable.

What is there to blow up? There's no story here.

This is just some clause so that if they decide to prune accounts that have had virtually no activity, made no purchases, and haven't been logged into for several years, some nut can't sue them for that.

They haven't deleted anyone's account so far, and they're not going to delete anybody who has any kind of purchases or trophies tied to their name. Why would they ever do that? Risking massive backlash and distrust just to save free up several megabytes on some server buried somewhere? C'mon.

 

[Gaenor]

This is just some clause so that if they decide to prune accounts that have had virtually no activity, made no purchases, and haven't been logged into for several years, some nut can't sue them for that.

They haven't deleted anyone's account so far, and they're not going to delete anybody who has any kind of purchases or trophies tied to their name.

This is what I also think.

 

[Hibiki Kurosawa]

so someone doesn't log in for two years and their account gets nuked? Not that surprising really.

 

[Gin_And_Ironic]

it's some real bullshit that the account will essentially be nuked and you will lose every single purchase you made and any money you have on it.

Lolwat? No. If you haven't used your PSN account in two years, then you don't care about any purchase you've made. It takes what, two seconds to login to your PSN account from a browser or app or friend's PlayStation.

 

[mercenar1e]

if someone is inactive for the last 2 years how could the user accept the TOS? could Sony be sued?

 

[MightyHedgehog]

This may technically be old news (it's new to me), but there's no way anyone should find this acceptable.

 

[Rudiano]

what does that even supposed to mean?

 

[zeelman]

What is there to blow up? There's no story here.

EA had a similar rule in their Origin TOS and people spoke up and EA got rid of it. This needs to be done with other companies as well.

 

[//ARCANUM]

It's not a big deal because it's been in the ToS for 7 years already. All they did was change it from 18 months to 24 months. So if anything it's actually better for consumers now.

Regardless, you're making a whole load of assumptions here. What makes you think they'll close accounts that have purchases on them? It's far more logical to assume they're talking about accounts that have had 0 activity. I mean, it's been said already. This has been in their ToS for 7 years and I haven't seen a single person say they've lost their purchases because of this.

Your example would suck, but your example is far from being a likely result of this.

While I'm big on consumer side of things commercial businesses clearly need something to balance taking the onus for storing all our stuff if it seems we don't actually want it anymore. Digital is a particularly thorny issue and of course no business has to preserve its to past if it doesn't want to. Ultimately it'll fall to others to preserve what companies don't want to themselves.

That said people are assuming worse case when there doesn't seem any evidence Sony would auto delete your account first second you're past the time period.

Personally I'm not a fan of the rush to digital before stuff like this is clear but consumer markets often gallop ahead of legal scenarios.

I've got PT plus some gems stored on my old PS3 plus a ton of old games on my PC so I'm doing my part!

Yeah that would suck but that 24 months is most likely not a hard line limit. They just have it in thwir TOS to ensure they could do it if necessary legaly.
As I've said above I'm pretty sure I've read the same thing on MMO accounts before but the only one I've even got a notice about is my ancient WoW account.

I view this as a. legal security measure for exceptional circumstances, not a hard rule.

Yeah i don't think it's likely they'll act upon it, I was just saying IF they acted upon it, it would suck and there'd be no recourse.

 

[Mengetsu]

PSN name changes in coming? A legal reason to re gathering names not used to put in the system?

 

[Qassim]

I think it's most likely that if they do prune accounts, they'd do so only for accounts which have no purchased content on them.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear that there are *millions* of accounts which have nothing associated with them.

 

[RichiRamjag]

Lolwat? No. If you haven't used your PSN account in two years, then you don't care about any purchase you've made. It takes what, two seconds to login to your PSN account from a browser or app or friend's PlayStation.

You don't even have to log in. My account from three years ago was fine as of this morning. I hate to be seen as a Sony apologist, if an actual account was deleted, I'd be pissed, but this has been policy for ages and it's never happened, yet folks are in here bugging out. It just seems a bit crazy.

 

[zeorhymer]

*facepalm* The sky is falling, tin foil hat, mountains out of molehills, knee jerk reaction, you name it. Not once has anyone been deleted/banned from inactivity since '07. Don't give me this "What if.." crap. There's better things to talk about like how Konami never said they're giving up on games!

FYI: There's a few companies that have this clause:

Twitter
Niantic
MeetMe

Hell even Google terminates inactive gmail account after 9 months of inactivity.

 

[Lupin the Third]

They've been working on it. Thing is It might just be an infrastructure issue that is really deeply embeded with how they originally built the back end for PSN. Im sure they could implement a system its just you know like would that system end up breaking stuff in horrible ways for people and then how do you make a system that doesn't end up breaking things.

Its not as simple of a solution as some people think it is. Yoshida has repeatedly said they are aware at the amount of people clamoring for name changes. So they know the demand is there.

They probably set the PSN ID as the Primary Key in the database, and changing those is a no-no as its the master reference number for all entries. They should have done some abstraction where the primary key is some arbitrary randomly assigned number and the PSN ID is a separate value. They could still keep current PSN IDs as the Primary Key and make a redundant PSN ID slot that's changeable but then EVERY reference to a PSN ID across the OS and games would need to be changed to make the queries correctly.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

*facepalm* The sky is falling, tin foil hat, mountains out of molehills, knee jerk reaction, you name it. Not once has anyone been deleted/banned from inactivity since '07. Don't give me this "What if.." crap. There's better things to talk about like how Konami never said they're giving up on games!

FYI: There's a few companies that have this clause:

Twitter
Niantic
MeetMe

Hell even Google terminates inactive gmail account after 9 months of inactivity.

You do see that an account that holds your digital purchases is quite a bit different than any of those, right? People have cause for concern even if they don't need to freak out about it.

 

[malfcn]

I probably have 2 accounts that could be nuked. Created one for MGS4, one for MGS1.