If there is, he's probably still walking.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Reddit Compiles Definitive List of All NMS Missing Features/False Marketing +Sources
- Thread starter 213372bu
- Start date
Kadin
Member
I attempted to earlier today but more than a few times I got turned around and wasn't paying attention and ended up going back towards my ship. Yeah I know the icon shows for my ship up top but I missed it and just kept circling back.
I guess in the end I'm glad I didn't because I don't want to think how long it might have taken. It wasn't a large planet by any means but even the small ones appear pretty damn big for walking/jetpacking.
With all revelations out the lack of simulation in the galaxy, I wouldn't be surprised it the planets were all flat!
I've flown laps of planets a few times in the upper atmosphere at 1600ish u (or whatever the speed unit is), they are most definitely not flat.
That's good to hear!
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Warframe's devs do it right. They're also a testament to people complaining that we're demanding too much from developers.
This might be a more legitimate defense if the game weren't in Early Access quality.
It also might be a more legitimate defense if we didn't live in an era of massive patching and updating. The game we play today is very often not the same game in a year.
To the typical "entitled" whining that people also do, I'm entitled to my opinion about the game and I'm entitled to want answers about the product. I paid $60+ for the damn game (admittedly refunded) and put in over twenty hours of my precious time.
Entitled nothing.
Gravy Boat
Member
I'm still disappointed with the game, as someone who didn't buy into the hype. I went in with tapered expectations, hoping for something I could just play with minimal though, flying from planet to planet, discovering cool stuff. I watched maybe 2 videos before release so I wasn't up to date on everything that was supposed to be in the game. Even without getting into all that mess, I still just find the game really disappointing and a chore to play. There's just nothing interesting about it. None of the upgrades are exciting or necessary, yet they get thrown at me everytime I do anything. None of the wildlife is interesting enough to engage in or actively seek out. The space travel may as well just be a menu and a loading screen because after the first few times where entering and leaving a planets atmosphere is fun, you realise that there's absolutely nothing else to the space travel outside of the occasional irrating pirate attack.
I've put maybe a dozen or so hours into the game just hoping it would open up but it just doesn't. The gameplay loop on planet 100 is the exact same as it is on planet 1. Lazily blasting away at the same elements over and over to get enough fuel to get to a new system to do the exact same thing. Absolutely nothing changes. The game doesn't even encourage you to explore or give you any reason to do so. All the upgrades basically boil down to 'Do X Faster'. I didn't want this to be a game I completed quickly, but there's nothing enticing me to do anything other than the bare minimal to get off each planet.
Reading the list of everything that was supposed to be in the game, or that was shown in trailers and inteviews, it really becomes apparent that this game has under delivered and I get why so many people are upset. The product they paid for isn't the one they thought they were getting. If people are happy with the game then good for them, but I can't see how anyone can say that people don't have a right to be upset, or can be called entitled. I thought we were past the stage of calling someone entitled because they were expectig a developer to live up to what they said they would do.
I've put maybe a dozen or so hours into the game just hoping it would open up but it just doesn't. The gameplay loop on planet 100 is the exact same as it is on planet 1. Lazily blasting away at the same elements over and over to get enough fuel to get to a new system to do the exact same thing. Absolutely nothing changes. The game doesn't even encourage you to explore or give you any reason to do so. All the upgrades basically boil down to 'Do X Faster'. I didn't want this to be a game I completed quickly, but there's nothing enticing me to do anything other than the bare minimal to get off each planet.
Reading the list of everything that was supposed to be in the game, or that was shown in trailers and inteviews, it really becomes apparent that this game has under delivered and I get why so many people are upset. The product they paid for isn't the one they thought they were getting. If people are happy with the game then good for them, but I can't see how anyone can say that people don't have a right to be upset, or can be called entitled. I thought we were past the stage of calling someone entitled because they were expectig a developer to live up to what they said they would do.
TimFL
Member
They probably didn't change anything like you said. I mean, they most likely planned a realistic solar system feature but never managed to make it work. We know for a fact that the demos he gave (E3 ones etc) were all scripted nature because you can find them in the game files as levels with scripted spawns etc.
Oh god, we're entering Flat Earth speculation. The f**k have you done, Sean?
Couldn't that just prove they are in a geostationary orbit? (which would still be ludicrous as we'd have to assume all moons are in said geosynchronous orbit)
Couldn't that just prove they are in a geostationary orbit? (which would still be ludicrous as we'd have to assume all moons are in said geosynchronous orbit)
That's it, is Sean going to become a recluse now and never talk to the media again. When he wants to publicise and advertise he's all over the media. But when they want answers he's no where to be found. I wonder if any of them will help him advertise his future games.
At least it will improve in some way in coming months/years and it's a tiny download.
Sad Affleck
Member
Very well put.
I still think that he thought those things were going to be in the game, on some level. Basically I still don't think he was lying - as in intentionally - I think things changed and his complete lack of PR training, combined with an old fashioned gamedev project management approach (i.e. locked doors and windows on everything internal), meant that he didn't keep the players updated. Like, the Colbert Show episode was from October 2015. It could be that in February 2016 they loaded their most 'complete' build onto a stock PS4 for the first time and found that loads of shit just wasn't working, and from then til May they sliced feature after feature out of the simulation, including multiplayer. We know that this has happened with other large and ambitious games - it happened with GTA V, it happened with Uncharted 2 and the Last of Us. And we even know that big things were cut from them - in an earlier GTA V interview Houser said that it would have a Chinatown Wars style drug economy where you could buy drugs and sell them on/ship them. That was my most anticipated feature of GTA V and it was 100% absent from the game even though Houser flat-out said it would be in the game.
The bullshit is that they didn't announce or communicate this - I'm not on Sean's side here. But I don't think he was being intentionally misleading when he said any of this.
I reckon we'll get a Destiny-like "shit was fucked in development for the PS4" style article re NMS within the next year.
TheCanisDirus
Member
Digital Extremes is an epic dev studio. They are refreshingly open and candid. Top tier. Hello Games is a few hundred warps away from their orbit.
I imagine that once you transition from space to the planet's atmosphere, the world converts to a flat landscape.
They're not flat. It's one thing that absolutely hasn't been compromised on. You can see slight curvature on distant landscape, get in your ship while watching the landscape the entire time, and fly towards it, rising but keeping within the atmosphere, and observe everything curving away without any change or reload in rendering.
Jacksinthe
Banned
Look, I'm going to say this just one more time.
Every interview the guy gave he answered based on the tone of the moment.
When that tone was "holy shit you can do anything!" - suddenly you were landing on asteroids, playing with friends, griefing players, customizing your avatar! You can do anything!
When that tone was "this universe is sooo huge! This is amazing!" - suddenly the answers became that due to the nature of its sheer size, it would be almost impossible to meet another player, you would only know what you looked like by being told by another player - all adding to the mysticism and mind-boggling scale of the universe that it would be almost impossible to meet people!
His answers fit the narrative at the moment. He never answered based on facts, his answers were based on OPPORTUNITY.
Everyone knows someone like Sean. He's that friend of yours that has a story that fits every situation and even though it should be THE SAME FUCKING STORY - it always changes based on the NARRATIVE OF THE MOMENT.
Twitter bullshit:
I can't believe two players met! Blown away!
Remember folks, NMS is not an MP game!
We totally added a search for players option to encourage this behaviour!
Wait, wait... WAIT. 2 players never met but you are blown away they did, you say it's not an MP game but you put in a feature to facilitate MP.
What the fuck is it?
That's not bullshit PR speak. He's taking advantage of THOSE NARRATIVES as well. Right on Twitter.
He's a used car salesman. He did the same shit with Joe Danger across 2 different games. This is his third.
This is his modus operandi.
What is so difficult to understand? How can people not see he is literally answering questions and making statements that fit the moment, that fit the narrative of the talking points in an effort to upsell the product?
I'm dumbfounded. I am literally stumped how this can be so elusive. Its plain as day.
You're really losing it here, dude. Calm down.
- you've changed your tack from being 'he's lying intentionally' to 'he says whatever he feels like at the time', an opportunistic narrative. Which aren't the same thing.
- I agree 100% with what you're pointing out - and that clearly there's loads of bullshit involved on Sean's end - but everything you just noted is bad PR practice. It's awful, but it's just really, really bad PR, nothing more.
i) Not having a strategy behind what information you will and won't reveal;
ii) Not having a list of 'OK to say's and 'Not-OK to say's;
iii) Being influenced by the tone and mood of the moment (i.e. getting 'carried away') - the biggest one of all;
iv) Not being careful with social media and basically pissing everyone off with contradictory/badly thought-out posts
- He did the same shit with Joe Danger? What?
LastCupOfSorrow
Banned
How is it that you are defending hours upon hours of video evidence of Sean Murray lying? That is the only problem in this thread that we see, man... The dude is not losing anything. He has every right to be angry, as we all do. Sean Murray is an intentional, opportunistic liar and he deserves to be called out on it. It wasn't just one or two things either. It was a plethora - dozens - of things that he lied about, even up until the very, very end. And even NOW!! LOL! It is CRAZY!!!
It is literally indefensible because of how much damning evidence there is towards him. The hours of lying on video in practically every single interview. The written interviews where he lies in almost every single one. The Twitter feed where he confuses and deceives even more with nonsensical statements such as the ones the gentlemen before me posted. Etc, etc, etc...
milkybar1983
Member
what did he lie about with Joe Danger? (genuinely intrigued)
TheCanisDirus
Member
How do you know it's " really bad PR, nothing more"? Doesn't appear so to me personally.
LastCupOfSorrow
Banned
Lying once or twice could be perceived this way. But lying over a period of many years in front of massive audiences isn't "bad PR" like he/she states. It is intentional misleading and misinformation to sell a product that you aren't producing. He sold ideas (over multiple dozens of interviews and over a period of years) that don't exist in his product. This is called lying.
Not too sure why this gentlemen is having such a difficult time understanding... His first role model is definitely not a logical Vulcan, lol.
The horse can't be any more dead at this point...
Jacksinthe
Banned
Ok. Ok.
Just so we are clear before I continue..
If I am talking to 2 different interviewers about my Boss Rush mode and the first says "man I love a boss rush where you don't take any boss breaks or don't Regen health" and I say YES IT WORKS LIKE THAT...
Then in another interview the interviewer says "man I really appreciate a boss break and health Regen" and I say YES IT WORKS LIKE THAT...
I'm... I'm not lying, I'm not lying?
Is that how it works?
Ok.
Anyone else? Anyone?
It's the Molyneux Cycle.
- Dev makes insanely ambitious promises, media regurgitates uncritically, fans get hyped.
- Dev fails to deliver, fans are disappointed, media blames dev for overhyping and fans for allowing themselves to get hyped.
- Dev goes quiet, media gets bored and moves on, most fans resign themselves to enjoying what they can about the game.
- Wait a few years, repeat.
Did you read my post?
I agree with you. I think Sean Murray talked bullshit. I wouldn't specifically use the word 'lie', because I don't think he was misleading people intentionally, like in a pre-planned way.
The whole situation is a shit show and Hello Games have handled it badly.
I'm literally just arguing with the idea that he intentionally misled people. That's it. I don't think it was intentional, I just think he communicated (and continues to communicate) like an infant.
LastCupOfSorrow
Banned
Fair enough, lol. Even though I disagree. No one can lie for literally years and in every interview and have it be an "accident," lol. That is just asinine.
TheCanisDirus
Member
That's what i was getting at. How can he accidentally lie for years? lol. Agreed. This entire situation is so shady it's not even funny.
The implication is that 'lying' means 'intentionally mislead'. In your example, you knew that regen is or isn't in the game, yet you told two different interviewers two different things.
The situation here, as far as we know (we literally can't know for sure at this point), is more likely to be that in Interview 1 there is not boss regen, but then after problems arise in the following year, you add boss regen, and then in the second interview you say 'Yes there is boss regen'.
In the first interview, you didn't know that the feature would be changed, so at the time, to the best of your knowledge, it was true. The problem we have in this thread is that Sean hasn't commented on the change - which is the crux of the problem. The core of the thread isn't "Were these things true or not" - the core of the thread is "Why the fuck haven't they clarified either way, because that is a crock of shit"
Don't you see this? Any screaming about Sean Murray intentionally lying, at this point, is impossible to prove. We can only know if we get our hands on their month-by-month development files and strategies, or if one of them comes out and officially confirms it either way.
We're on the same side, just arguing sematics, but you're continuing to go wild like a child with your rhetoric.
I don't know. And you don't either. But I know a lot about how game development can progress (worked on several large game projects and have read a lot of horror stories about late-stage game dev) and it's entirely realistic that these things just changed during the cycle.
Again: the problem is that Hello/Sean have not clarified either way or been transparent about anything.
TheCanisDirus
Member
I applaud him. Devs shouldn't be able to get away with the shit that Sean Murry has done. Squeaky wheel and all.
See above re game development. Things change - big fucking things - and you literally can't know it will happen until the last few months of development.
Again, my GTA V example. In a 2012 interview, Dan Houser confirmed that GTA V would have Chinatown Wars' 'drug dealing' mechanic. You can buy from dealers, sell in other districts for profit, get special deals, etc.
Fast forward a year - the game releases in 2013, and that mechanic is nowhere in sight. You can't even buy drugs like in Saints Row.
And nobody cared. Nobody flagged it up. Even though a minority (including me) were fucking hyped about the feature and were sorely disappointed it wasn't present.
But you didn't see me going mental in threads like this. The fact is that things change within a game's design all the way up to the 11th hour, and it is often impossible to see what will work or what won't until you get the bigger picture near the end. Rockstar never talked about the drug dealing system in GTA V ever again. It obviously just didn't fit, for whatever reason, and they cut it in the year leading up to release. Arguably just like the multiplayer function in NMS. It's entirely possible (plausible even) that Sean couldn't have known it wouldn't make it in.
Again, the problem is that Murray hasn't clarified anything. That is the big monolithic problem.
TheCanisDirus
Member
Fair enough. You just wrote that as if it was a fact. I completely agree. Nobody but their team really knows and we're likely never going to hear the full truth.
Also agreed on the problem. There has been no transparency and it's all just been some obtuse and coy ¯\_(ツ
_/¯ -ing.The sky probably becomes static when you enter the atmosphere from the planet with a typical time of day, freezing the location of the planets in the sky so their position remains fixed.
I'd have to test this when I'm on a planet where the space station is close by. Land on a planet (that's not too hostile or I die whilst idling on it) and wait 30 minutes/hour and then fly up and see where the position of the space station is.
If the position has shifted there is something weird going on though. Why'd they lock the planets in place? It'd be kinda awesome to watch the planet slowly come into view or vanish out of view. Especially with two planets being close.
They've continued to pretend its a thing up through and post release
You can say what you like, but it's still untrue.
I've flown partially around planets to land directly on top of a marker on the opposite side (or at least well below the horizon) or to line up with another planet for a pulse jump etc. They are, no question, spherical.
Well, you can deal with drugs. Take missions to help out the weed store you buy and profit off it. They just nerfed drug dealing like Sean nerfed elements and crafting. Still there, but in a more limited form.
But Molyneux kept the cycle going by either apologising or making up excuses for why things didn't end the way he'd hoped.
Sean has got himself into a bigger bind already. The more silent he is and the longer it goes on the more difficult he makes it and the worse it gets. When ever he talks to the media again he's going to get questions, where ever he goes people are going to want answers. Anything he does is going to be overshadowed by this.
edit: And it doesn't matter if he lied intentionally or not the deceit is being compounded by time.
The GTA example doesn't really work here because that's a very minor feature in one of the most feature-packed games ever released. It's not core to the game at all, just a bit of fluff. A better example would be if Houser said you could travel to Vice City or something like that.
LastCupOfSorrow
Banned
C'mon, man. Literally the day before, day of, and day after, he was still claiming multiplayer in the game, LOL... Get real!!!
SlickShoes
Member
He could lie for years perhaps because only when release was approaching did he realise that all this had to either be pulled for it to function as a game at all or it never made it in yet.
Jacksinthe
Banned
I'm a dev working on PS4 and PC.
He shits the bed for all of us. Just like failed and cash-grab Kickstarters shit the bed for legitimate campaigns.
Yo.
Yo.
He literally said two different things about the games features right before/after release.
Edit:
Check out @NoMansSky's Tweet: https://twitter.com/NoMansSky/status/762688708764135425?s=09
Check out @NoMansSky's Tweet: https://twitter.com/NoMansSky/status/763270512277594112?s=09
Timestamps. How do they work?
Constantly bending your features to fit the EXACT narrative time and again is fucking lying.
Joe Danger 1
Fuck Xbox, PS Rulz!
Sorry xbros! We will give you more content! Xbox Rulz!
Sorry Psbros, we will give you more content than xboys but you have to pay for it all over again
Joe Danger Times 2
See: Joe Danger 1
This is what Sean does. He will say whatever he can to fit the current narrative to sell a product.
We know from data mining and packet capture that MP doesn't and probably never existed while we can fuckin find the live "unscripted" E3 showing in the files.
Dude.
Dude.
Stop making excuses for him.
No no, dude. Stop. Seriously.
The more people like you make excuses "oh that's not lying, that's just misleading", the more this shit will get done.
As a consumer, I'm tired of this bullshit.
As a dev, I'm tired of sharing the same space with devs like this. It makes it less likely the shit I say about my game will be believed.
I do stuff like mini gamedev docs so you can see our process and how we build stuff. Just to share tips and tricks Ang give insight into gamedev.
I do live streams of me fumbling through code (hey, you try coding 30 steps ahead in your brain and talk to people in real time and answer questions before all that code in your brain vanishes) because it might help another dev or maybe folks just like seeing that process of making an enemy, animating them and the code that goes behind it. So people can see the process.
Plenty of devs do it right. Then there's this guy. But you have to make excuses? Come the fuck on.
I thought about that as well, but even if everything is geo stationary, regardless off distance or speed you should still experience some kind of rotation while flying in your ship. Unless that's also in orbit, but afaik does the game not have orbit physics, and even then, you'd have to see the stars moving while sitting in your ship which afaik doesn't happen.
Yeah it's sad because this could have led to real natural wonders, like a sudden solar eclipse or being in the right spot at the right time and witnessing 4 different planets lining up. Would certainly add to the exploration factor.
Glass Shark
Banned
Planets are definitely not flat. Someone on reddit tested it with two different planets the day after launch.
LastCupOfSorrow
Banned
The only place those physics exist are in Sean Murray's mind. He lied about it for years claiming to have some amazing computer code that can practically do everything but cure cancer...
Sammy Samusu
Member
Not going to read through the whole thread but wasn't Sony responsible for the marketing?
most of the claims being refuted come from interviews with sean murray
i'd assume sony didn't give him a script to follow every time he talked to the press