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PoliGAF 2016 |OT12| The last days of the Republic

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K

KyroLen

Neo Member
Cyanity said:
So I've successfully convinced my conservative parents that Trump is an awful human being and should not be POTUS. -2 for Trump in Massachusetts.
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Awesome job!

I'm trying my best to do the same with friends and family, but not having much luck unfortunately.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Boke1879 said:
Yea it's not an accusation I want to toss around unless I knew for a fact he did something like that. But his comments to little girls are terrifying. Straight up predatory.
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I don't disagree, it's utterly disgusting on a level I'm not used to in our discourse. I just don't want that to be a thing because then we'd need national counseling.
 
J

Joe Shlabotnik

Banned
mackaveli said:
The one thing I am confused and my friend asks me. Is why did Hillary delete the 33,000 personal emails when there was a subpoena?

How do I answer that?

Thanks.
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She was required to turn over work-related emails. Since her personal and work emails were mixed together, her lawyers went through and deleted what thy determined were "personal" before turning the rest over.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Joe Shlabotnik said:
She was required to turn over work-related emails. Since her personal and work emails were mixed together, her lawyers went through and deleted what thy determined were "personal" before turning the rest over.
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Also anything that was privileged communication (ie any emails between her and her lawyers).
 
A

A Human Becoming

More than a Member
Chase17 said:
As a fellow Democrat from New Hampshire's 1st district I wish you the best of luck. Election day is going to be stressful!

Still waiting for my absentee ballot to arrive.
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I wish I could vote now, but you need a reason and I don't want to lie.
cooljeanius said:
1st district? Pshaw. Get over to the superior 2nd district where our House seat isn't a ping-pong ball!
:p
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So many Granite Staters in here!

I heard Nashua is nice.
 
V

Veelk

Banned
Finale Fireworker said:
Here's a conversation I want to have. I'm not sure what the question I am asking is. Maybe somebody can help me parse the concern into a meaningful point.

Donald is being accused left and right by women he has allegedly assaulted. The examples that we have are quite old - over a decade in some cases. Donald responds to these accusations by calling the women liars.

But Donald and his team are also accusing Bill Clinton of sexually assaulting women. The examples that we have are quite old, decades in some cases. If Bill Clinton is innocent, which we cannot prove without a doubt, then these women are lying.

This is a difficult situation because there is no way HRC and the Democrats can address the accusations without implying the same excuse Donald is making: that the accusations are simply false.

How do we reconcile that? How do we refute Bill Clinton's accusations without validating Donald's own denial? Because all we mostly have are the testimonies of the victims.
Click to expand...

Here's what is tricky about sexual misconduct: It's really a crime like any other. What makes it such a sensitive topic is the culture surrounding it. For years, women have been told to just put up with it rather than treat it as a real violation of their persons as they should. As a result, when women make accusations of sexual harassment or rape or whatever, we believe them as a default because you cause real psychological damage by not taking real victims of it at their word....until they get their investigation.

This is where the innocent until proven guilty part comes in. The court is what is supposed to suss out the truth of any given crime. What happened, how, how they should pay, etc. It's not perfect, but it's the system we have of discerning whether a crime has been committed.

The key difference with Bill and Trump is that there were two investigations with this as far as I know, with 2 of the 3 women claiming to be sexually harassed by him changing their stories. Only Broaddick kept hers consistent, but while there wasn't an investigation as far as I know, they were in a situation where her situation can be neither proven nor disproven, and remains a he said-she said sort of thing.

Now Trump, one big difference already is that he is a pathological liar, while Bill is only a normal kind of liar. We also have evidence that it is in his character to be predisposed to sexual harassment. There multiple recordings of him talking about how he views women as sexual objects for him to admire or use. This extends to his own infant daughter even. Plus, the multiple women coming forth give stories with extreme detail, especailly that one that was interviewing him and he just decided to kiss her. Such vivid details simply feel real.

When you get down to it, it's true that there is no absolute proof of them being harassed by Trump (yet), but Trump's character, the multiple women coming forth, and how they describe it make me believe them over him.

With Bill, while he is a sleezebag for the things he already know he did, he does not strike me as someone who doesn't have a respect for women as people and upon scrutiny, 2 of the womens stories fall apart. I'm not saying that means he didn't do it, but these factors give me some doubt. Again, sexual accusations are believed when their initially voiced because of how damaging it is to the women to not be believed, not because their automatically true. Once we scrutinize and we come away with implications that it's not what happened, for atleast 2 of the women, I atleast see it as less likely that they are telling the truth than with the women Trump alledgedly sexually assaulted.

Lastly, it's notable that Clinton isn't making these women come forward, while the Trump Campaign is clearly reaching out to these women and using them to try to smear clinton. It can't be ignored that the entire Trump support base is based around not just that Trump is an honorable, noble man who will save america, but also that Hillary is guilty of a bunch of shit that she is clearly not guilty of. There is little rationality to most of their accusations, and while guilt by association may be a fallacy, it's not inconceivable that their hatred of the Clintons is clouding their judgement. If people can unironically claim that she is a literal demon from hell, why not rapists too? When this first came out, I made a post wondering why the hell would these women support Trump when he's as much a misogynist as anyone. You have to be careful not to fall for the guilt by association fallacy, but there is an extra layer of skepticism involved when the platform from which you are shouting from has so much BS surrounding it AND is blatantly misogynistic in character.

Also, if nothing else, even if everything they say about bill is 100% true...that means nothing for Hillary herself. She's running for president
 
H

Hopfrog

Member
Another click-baity article on 538 on the McMullin scenario.

Like, I get that it is technically possible for this to happen, but in what real world scenario would it actually happen? You hear a lot of talk about people "taking to the streets" over elections when they don't like the outcome, but in my mind you might actually get something like that if the HOR selected a guy who won one state to be president. That would be something that would unite both Trump and Hillary supporters in outrage.
 
S

Spoiled Milk

Banned
Finale Fireworker said:
Here's a conversation I want to have. I'm not sure what the question I am asking is. Maybe somebody can help me parse the concern into a meaningful point.

Donald is being accused left and right by women he has allegedly assaulted. The examples that we have are quite old - over a decade in some cases. Donald responds to these accusations by calling the women liars.

But Donald and his team are also accusing Bill Clinton of sexually assaulting women. The examples that we have are quite old, decades in some cases. If Bill Clinton is innocent, which we cannot prove without a doubt, then these women are lying.

This is a difficult situation because there is no way HRC and the Democrats can address the accusations without implying the same excuse Donald is making: that the accusations are simply false.

How do we reconcile that? How do we refute Bill Clinton's accusations without validating Donald's own denial? Because all we mostly have are the testimonies of the victims.
Click to expand...
BILL CLINTON IS NOT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT
BILL CLINTON IS NOT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT
BILL CLINTON IS NOT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT

he probably raped or had sex with every single one of those people but none of that matters because none of that is Hillary's responsibility

This is the 21st century. Women are independent people. The idea that we tie husband and wife together into one legal, spiritual, and material being is called the LAW OF COVERTURE. It is one of the most pivotal moments of sexism in western history. Coverture is what we use to deny that women exist outside of marriage. They DO exist, they have RIGHTS, they deserve to be treated as INDIVIDUALS.
 
M

metalslimer

Member
Hilary has nothing to do with Bill. I wouldn't vote for Bill in a primary if I had the chance. It's perfectly valid for conservatives to say Clinton deserves a worse reputation than he ended up with but it has nothing to do what Hilary because they have 0 proof she was going around trying to silence people.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
Hopfrog said:
Another click-baity article on 538 on the McMullin scenario.

Like, I get that it is technically possible for this to happen, but in what real world scenario would it actually happen? You hear a lot of talk about people "taking to the streets" over elections when they don't like the outcome, but in my mind you might actually get something like that if the HOR selected a guy who won one state to be president. That would be something that would unite both Trump and Hillary supporters in outrage.
Click to expand...

It's nonsense. McMullin could only win Utah in a scenario where Clinton gets 270. And even if he could do it otherwise, Ryan probably could or would not be able to get his caucus to vote for McMullin.
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Chicago Tribune found another case of Trump saying he will be dating a young girl in a few years.

Curn_HLWcAE-Xik.jpg
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
Donald Trump basically doesn't view women as people. They're just a collection of orifices he can put his various disgusting body parts in. Teen girls are crops that haven't reached harvest maturity.
 
W

Wolfgunblood Garopa

Member
Trump is a media addict, constantly watching news shows, obsessed with attention- and they gave it to him. They basically made his nomination happen. Then he antagonizes the media as soon as they started to do their jobs, and now the narrative is that the media is in the pocket of the Democratic party. It's another example of psychological abuse from the Trump campaign.

Everything about the Trump campaign is abusive, dishonest and toxic.
 
R

rjinaz

Member
All these women suddenly confused why other women don't come forward with sexual assault. I feel like we're regressing here as a society.
 
N

Nafai1123

Banned
shinra-bansho said:
Donald Trump basically doesn't view women as people. They're just a collection of orifices he can put his various disgusting body parts in. Teen girls are crops that haven't reached harvest maturity.
Click to expand...

This is so evident in the Access Hollywood video when they're talking about her and he says "Oh, it looks good huh?"

Not "she looks good," or "her legs look good." Nope, "it looks good, like a delicious Trump steak."

Absolutely disgusting perception of women.
 
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