Pretty sure slot machines, at least in the UK, have to show the statistical chances of winning prizes, and are fixed, in game slot machines don't, so you have no way of knowing what the odds are, and the odds can be dynamic.
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Gears of War 4 Microtransactions are Out of Control
- Thread starter creatchee
- Start date
Pretty sure slot machines, at least in the UK, have to show the statistical chances of winning prizes, and are fixed, in game slot machines don't, so you have no way of knowing what the odds are, and the odds can be dynamic.
While I find all the microtransaction in AAA games a cancer I've seen worse in NBA 2k17 or in the last FIFA and previous ones, Ultimate team is a mode where every year you need to spend more money to get what in previous you could get for free or way less cheap.
Horde mode in gears I haven't even activated any card yet (only played in normal).
Horde mode in gears I haven't even activated any card yet (only played in normal).
CecilRousso
Member
Well, I don't think most people in this thread are actually saying that no microtransactions are allowed, but rather that they are comfortable with how they're handled in this game.
Teletraan1
Banned
Arguing against DLC at this point is like farting into a hurricane. Bad project management has ballooned the cost to make games and someone has to pay for it. The practice that needs to go away is this fucking gambling bullshit. I don't mind if someone wants to pay an extra sum of money to get exactly what they want but this paying into some random loot generator with duplicates needs to fucking die immediately. It should be illegal. Like a poster said above it is a digital balls and cup game. A scam that is not tolerated irl, why do we put up with it here? Cause we can hand wave it as optional or cosmetic or whatever? Nah that just muddies the issue. Get rid of it period pubs.
Because no one has yet to challenge it.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Wait, this shit is in horde mode too? What do they sell?
Skill cards. These cards are +Extra Damage, +Extra Ammo, Take less damage, reduce costs to build stuff, those kinds of things.
You literally cannot play hardcore or insane outright because you have no cards, you'll simply die incredibly quickly and do no damage and run out of ammo. Even normal can be seen as a little grindy when you start out.
How many cards can you have on? Depends on the level of your class, you can only start out with 1 card at level 1. 2 cards at level 3, 3 cards at level 5, etc. etc.
How do you get more cards? Playing Horde for the first 10 waves gives you about 400 coins, which then you can spend on a crate. The crate has 5 random skill cards in it that can be for any class AND you can receive duplicates. Playing versus also gives coins but I dont know if its a decent amount, I assume if you suck and lose a lot you won't be getting many coins.
Developers have been doing this for years and it started with Valve, they recently got threatened with a lawsuit but nothing changed, the only thing that changed was those skins and cosmetics can't be sold for real life money as easily. But overall nothings changed. But Valve is the golden child that can do no wrong among the gaming industry, they do this because they get lots of money for it so the numbers are telling them to not stop. Other developers copy these models and get lots of money, I mean why would they leave free money on the table over morals?
The only time I know of that DLC shenanigans hurt a game was Street Fighter x Tekken , where a whole slew of characters were already on the disc and they were planning to sell them to you later. Even then people back then were like "dont tell me how to spend my money. Capcom can charge what they want for whatever they want".
SkyMasterson
Member
Fortunately this does not affect mp, otherwise I would have been pissed.
If somebody actually wants to spend real money on this shit, fine by me. I'll just continue redeeming points that I earn to unlock packs.
It's amazing how many games use this model and are extremely successful(Valve, Overwatch, sports games, etc).
I am interested to see if they adjust it even further in future updates(making it easier to unlock packs). Otherwise, despite all the micro-transaction crap, The Coalition have brought Gears back and have made one hell of a game.
If somebody actually wants to spend real money on this shit, fine by me. I'll just continue redeeming points that I earn to unlock packs.
It's amazing how many games use this model and are extremely successful(Valve, Overwatch, sports games, etc).
I am interested to see if they adjust it even further in future updates(making it easier to unlock packs). Otherwise, despite all the micro-transaction crap, The Coalition have brought Gears back and have made one hell of a game.
How exactly are loot boxes a cup and ball scam that aren't tolerated in real life? Trading card packs and blind box toys are the exact same thing as loot boxes and they legal for people of all ages to buy. I also don't see calls from anyone to make those illegal.
B1gg_Randall
Member
Wow!
Polioliolio
Member
You're dreaming if you think this isn't damaging. I don't care if it's For the most useless cosmetic. It's still not right.
Eff this game.
J-Roderton
Member
Haven't played much horde yet, but is advancing higher on the waves really that dependent on good cards?
Reineldinho
Member
For all these people which claim that Horde mode is Pay2Win....have you really play the game? You can spend thousands of dolars in microtransactions and you will end up with all the abilities maxed out.... now good luck leveling up your character so you can use more than one at a time.
Also, the whole concept of "pay2win" in a co-op mode is just nuts
Everything else is cosmetic, so not a problem. I don't feel the mirotransactions in the game been intrusive nor abusive.
My favorite co-op mode last generation (Mass Effect 3 multiplayer) had them too and I do not remember that many complains about it
Just ignore them and enjoy the game
Also, the whole concept of "pay2win" in a co-op mode is just nuts
Everything else is cosmetic, so not a problem. I don't feel the mirotransactions in the game been intrusive nor abusive.
My favorite co-op mode last generation (Mass Effect 3 multiplayer) had them too and I do not remember that many complains about it
Just ignore them and enjoy the game
The responsibility falls on whoever has the best cards/highest rank. My very first game I had a high level heavy class player, he starts with the rocket launcher and had like 10k points and the next guy had 4k points. When we started getting higher in waves and he gets caught out and/or dies, the rest of the team now just lost this overpowered god that carried them up to this point. I speak from random matchmaking experience, since that is the vast majority of what everyone else goes through. If you have 4 friends and everything planned out that's a completely different story, but basically the involvement of 'skill' is lowered in this iteration of Horde. Since the mode starts off painfully slow, if the high ranked player isn't killing everything then he's waiting for the weaker players to finish dumping their mags into basic enemies and boredom becomes a big issue. I switched to hardcore recently because waiting until wave 25 to actually start giving a shit(unless it's a snatcher boss wave) is pretty snoozefest imo.
I'm able to play the game and have fun, don't care for having to grind for things that don't make my skills better (as in me, not weapon). I play games for fun, not to get some cool boost that's unnecessary. Microtransactions are basically for people who want everything and aren't patient in my opinion. I personally don't care for them. People who want to buy, let them buy, just like horse armor.
It is tolerated in real life though, and totally legal.
deadscreensky
Member
100% yes. They give enormous advantages, like extra energy pick-ups, additional ammo, massively increased damage, faster movement, etc.
In my experience you get about 100 credits every 10 waves, with each Horde pack costing 400.
Banjo-Kazooie
Member
The difference is you can sell or trade those physical items to somebody at a fair market value. In Gears, you can only scrap them for a quarter to an eighth of what they're actually worth (by the in-game scrap value, which is all we can go off of). There is no recourse for duplicates or unwanted items other than to take a standardized substantial loss to your initial investment. That is wrong.
Booker.DeWitt
Member
this can become a real problem for some folks. This is gambling, pure and simple. I know people who have paid already $300 on those packs at gears of war forums just because they want to unlock everything or even find that specific skin, and guess what, he got very few rare/legendary skins.
Uhmm no. I only play horde and the credits have NOT changed one bit. They changed it for versus but not horde. So if I want to buy 1 horde pack, the cheapest for 400 credits, at my current level that's at least 50 waves of horde. AT LEAST 3 HOURS.
And to the person saying it's cosmetic. NO IT'S NOT. If you play horde it's not cosmetic. It's pay to win. Especially insane. You need all the cards to level up and improve.
MS and Coalition deserve all the criticism for this. It's the worst I've seen.
Reineldinho
Member
I'm mostly playing on Normal as my friends are not available yet for Horde, so I've been playing with 100% randoms. On Normal, waves 1 - 10 you get 52 credits and from 11 - 20, 79 IIRC. You get also 500 credit every time you level up 5 levels. I'm right now at level 51 and I think I leveled up 4 levels every 20 waves (so, I guess it should have be 2 level w/o the Double Exp weekend)
Honest question here: is there out there any other method which does not "obligate you" to take a substantial lost to your initial investment? (and I'm talking about these random loot cards packs)
I did 1 - 50 before the double exp weekend and playing Normal 1 - 50 gives you waaaaymore than 400 credtis (I'd say aprox 2000 including the leveling up rewards). You can be upset, but please do not misinform people who have not played the game yet
deadscreensky
Member
Your numbers are definitely more accurate. I guess I was being overly generous.
Am I wrong or do you get absolutely nothing for most level-ups? What a kick in the face.
And as such, there's no reason to fix it because of people like this.
Eh, it's bad but I feel overwatch is worse. I'm level 90 and I have like 1-2 skins for each character. All I get are sprays and duplicate sprays that give me 5 coins. I used the free $10 MS have out for downloading fallout 4 on 11 loot boxes. I may have gotten 40 sprays and voice lines and 1 legendary skin. While Ive only gotten 2 elite packs in gears, I was able to break down the cards that I didn't want and buy a skin I did want
There's a reason but not in the company's favor.
Diablohead
Member
I was just about able to handle halo 5's packs but this sounds like it's worse, horrible.
D
Deleted member 325805
Unconfirmed Member
It's a shame really, they make a great game, put a ton of effort into the PC port and then tarnish it with an OTT greedy MT system.
Booker.DeWitt
Member
they should make a fairer system, that is all. The way they are doing is almost predatory for people like that guy.
outunderthestars
Banned
Narpas Sword0
Member
Eh. I got a single character skin unlock (with coins), scrapped it and could afford the one character skin I wanted. Now I will never buy another cosmetic pack.
As for the Horde pack, it's very cheap and it will take many Horde sessions to level up your dude enough that having a glut of extra cards is beneficial, which you will be able to afford for free by that time.
I don't need to min/max horde, it's a social game type. It's ok that I don't have maxed out +50%assault rifle damage in the first week just like it's okay that I don't have a maxed out class level that lets me equip all the cards at once.
As for the Horde pack, it's very cheap and it will take many Horde sessions to level up your dude enough that having a glut of extra cards is beneficial, which you will be able to afford for free by that time.
I don't need to min/max horde, it's a social game type. It's ok that I don't have maxed out +50%assault rifle damage in the first week just like it's okay that I don't have a maxed out class level that lets me equip all the cards at once.
Memorabilia
Member
Gross. I'm looking forward to picking this game up when it drops to <$20 & just playing the campaign.
Edit:
...and this. I basically came here to rant about the same but u said it for me.
Edit:
...and this. I basically came here to rant about the same but u said it for me.
Aonuma
Member
I stopped playing BO3 cold turkey and traded in my disc the day before the final map pack came out because I got so fed up with the supply drops and not being able to access new guns unless the RNG gods smiled upon you.
I'm kinda glad I'm not planning on playing any Gears 4 multiplayer since it seems like the cancer just keeps on spreading.
I'm kinda glad I'm not planning on playing any Gears 4 multiplayer since it seems like the cancer just keeps on spreading.
Booker.DeWitt
Member
quoting another user:
Those practices all rely on the scummy thrill that a casino slot machine gives you. The deck is completely stacked against you and all the peripheral mechanics are aimed solely to get you hooked. It's exploitative and should never be condoned. There's a reason why casino's have age restrictions.
Okami Haundo
Member
As I haven't dived into the multiplayer aspect of Gears 4 yet, I have a question. Looking at the purchasable packs, all I found were cosmetic items and XP boosts. For the XP boosts specifically, does leveling up in versus give you any real benefit or advantage? For horde mode, is there a competitive component wherein paying to level up would be unfair to other players?
Valve allows people to trade or sell items on the community market but then people loose their shit because it's possible to gamble with the items due to being able to trade them. It's a loose loose.
Treyarch did it right with Black Ops 3, they give you weapons but they are shit compared to original game weapons, well except the MX GARAND wich I have and well haha
Advanced Warfare did wrong, gave online advantage to other players etc.
Gears of War is doing it wrong aswell, at least is not on Pvp unlike Advanced Warfare.
Advanced Warfare did wrong, gave online advantage to other players etc.
Gears of War is doing it wrong aswell, at least is not on Pvp unlike Advanced Warfare.
Booker.DeWitt
Member
leveling can give you more credit, which can give you more packs and advantage on horde mode, but not on the versus MP
If you're asking for a specific game, then none that I'm aware of in terms of a system that allows RNG to determine what you get and doesn't prevent duplicates. The problem with duplicates in Gears 4 is that they are literally useless except for scrap, and when you scrap them, you lose 3/4 to 7/8 of their scrap replacement value when you do so.
If you're asking what system I prefer, there are two:
1. Let me buy whatever the hell I want with real money or in-game credits. This is the simplest method that has the fairest economy - if I want it and I'm willing to pay the price they offer, I buy it and give them money.
2. Smite's Chest System. Each chest roll is not a terribly high cost, there are a finite amount of predetermined skins and items in each chest. You know what's in there, and you always know what your odds are of pulling something you actually want because you have a counter that lists how many of that chest you actually own. No duplicates. Plus, a lot of the items are readily available for direct purchase if you choose to avoid playing the random game. This is a fair system, in my opinion.
I think they've put a stop to the gambling sites with their API access, but I could be wrong. I like their system of offering your items for sale at a value you determine. Sure, undercutting happens, but at least you're in control of your bottom line, reasonable or otherwise.
I dont know on the one hand, I'm of the mind that you don't have to buy anything, as the only things that are included in these packs are cosmetics and boosters (bounties). So, theoretically you could just keep playing the game and eventually get what you want.
But the combination of random loot boxes and slow rate of accrual is pretty crappy right now, and I hope the Coalition here this feedback and adjust.
But the combination of random loot boxes and slow rate of accrual is pretty crappy right now, and I hope the Coalition here this feedback and adjust.
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
Games are so weird nowadays.
This lottery horseshit blows my mind when people say their gonna refund or don't want to play and how off-putting it is.
I can see how scummy the system is. Everyone can.
But is unlocking skins and stupid items the only driver to play games nowadays? Me playing a really close 3 round KOTH March for near 30 mins isn't somehow less fun because I don't have all the skins and characters.
Do people not enjoy games anymore?
I don't buy packs in any games i play. Gears economy needs sorting out for sure, but it doesn't change my enjoyment of the actual gameplay. The idea that it could seems insane to me.
Carrot and stick for real.
This lottery horseshit blows my mind when people say their gonna refund or don't want to play and how off-putting it is.
I can see how scummy the system is. Everyone can.
But is unlocking skins and stupid items the only driver to play games nowadays? Me playing a really close 3 round KOTH March for near 30 mins isn't somehow less fun because I don't have all the skins and characters.
Do people not enjoy games anymore?
I don't buy packs in any games i play. Gears economy needs sorting out for sure, but it doesn't change my enjoyment of the actual gameplay. The idea that it could seems insane to me.
Carrot and stick for real.
It's true alright.
If you're level 81 then you're out of luck on the 500 credits thing because getting to 85 will take you days. So you're left with 50 credits each 10 waves x 5 = 250 credits maybe a 100 credits bonus on top of all so you're looking at less than 400 credits not enough to buy a horde pack. You'd need 60 waves at least at higher levels.
The Jackdog
Member
I think I know why.
Halo 5 did it kinda arguably perfect. Yes, some things need to be able to be earned WITHOUT RNG. But in terms of the pace at which you earn packs, the things you get in them etc. halo 5 did a great job.
but halo 5 had a LOOTTTTTT to unlock. It still does.
Gears? Not so much.Character skins are almost all the same 4 types. Some gun skins are cool but again, most of these are repeating.
The truth is, gears of war 4 doesnt have all that much to unlock.
granted, if you hover over these things, almost all of them say "revision one" or "launch series". So they absolutely plan on adding more.
And how much you wanna bet after adding a bucket of new unlocks, all the sudden credits are easier to earn?
If theres not a lot to unlock, the colition has to artificially lengthen the time it takes to get everything, or else whats the point of things being rare in the first place?
Is it a good idea? Fucking no. Should they fix it? For sure, just let people earn at a reasonable rate. There is no goddam way I should FINISH a round of horde which takes multiple hours and not get anywhere close to a new pack. Thats nothing but infuriating for the player.
Halo 5 did it kinda arguably perfect. Yes, some things need to be able to be earned WITHOUT RNG. But in terms of the pace at which you earn packs, the things you get in them etc. halo 5 did a great job.
but halo 5 had a LOOTTTTTT to unlock. It still does.
Gears? Not so much.Character skins are almost all the same 4 types. Some gun skins are cool but again, most of these are repeating.
The truth is, gears of war 4 doesnt have all that much to unlock.
granted, if you hover over these things, almost all of them say "revision one" or "launch series". So they absolutely plan on adding more.
And how much you wanna bet after adding a bucket of new unlocks, all the sudden credits are easier to earn?
If theres not a lot to unlock, the colition has to artificially lengthen the time it takes to get everything, or else whats the point of things being rare in the first place?
Is it a good idea? Fucking no. Should they fix it? For sure, just let people earn at a reasonable rate. There is no goddam way I should FINISH a round of horde which takes multiple hours and not get anywhere close to a new pack. Thats nothing but infuriating for the player.
Did you read the replies? Complaint #1 is about Horde Mode specifically and the way the cards fuck with the actual gameplay in that very popular mode.
Clint Beastwood
Banned
It's just a GAF thing. There's a reason why basically every game has these mechanics, because most people don't care and will never spend money. If they like the game they'll keep playing. To the majority of people, not being able to use Black Steel Kait doesn't mean the game isn't worth playing anymore