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[eot]

Is my memory failing me or isn't flip mapped to circle in the first game like all the others? Maybe I'm thinking of a different move?

You're right actually, what it doesn't have is the underwater "roll", nor the rolling jump (where you turn around midair). It doesn't have the sidestep move either, which I also find annoying. Especially when you're trying to grab a ledge above you with no wall to walk into to line it up perfectly.

 

[Bloodporne]

You're right actually, what it doesn't have is the underwater "roll", nor the rolling jump (where you turn around midair). It doesn't have the sidestep move either, which I also find annoying. Especially when you're trying to grab a ledge above you with no wall to walk into to line it up perfectly.

You're right about the mid-air stuff but it does have the side step/"strafe". They're L2 and R2 respectively I believe. You definitely can side step, game would be impossible without it I think.

 

[Cafeman]

Woah, really? I never knew this. The Japanese NTSC version is actually better than the NA NTSC version of Tomb Raider? As in a better frame rate and performance?

I would like to know if this is true as well. I am only really familiar with the US version of Tomb Raider on the Saturn.

Looking at a video play through of the Japanese version here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFvP__lvT1Y , the framerate does look a little more responsive than what I remember. But it is also hard to say because I am still looking at a YouTube video.

That video looks pretty good for Saturn TR, better than some other vids on YT, but I think it just might be using a very good capture card. Impossible to tell that way if it performs better. There's just not much written about this (probably nobody cared about Saturn JP Tomb Raider by the time it came out).

 

[c0de]

This game was so mind-blowing when I played it on Saturn, bought at launch.
The level design is still holding up and the atmosphere of being alone and discovering places that no one visited since centuries was really something else.
It was also tough as hell, especially considering these fucking save crystals which disappeared when once used. I also liked the puzzles a lot, although a lot was finding the right keys for the right doors.
And I will never forgive the bad ending - this is all they did for an ending after creating such a great game?!
I am still mad at Sony that they bought TR back then - I really would've liked to see TR2 on Saturn. They already pushed the hardware like almost no other game with its 3d world and scope and I can only imagine what they could've done with a second Tomb Raider on Saturn if money would not have been involved.

Edit:

I also played Tomb Raider on Saturn first. Later, played 2 and 3 on PSX, played 4 on DC I think. I was tired of it all by then.

I'd like to see comparisons of the Japan Victor Soft optimized TR for Saturn, against the North American Saturn and the Playstation versions. According to what is written, the Japanese port was significantly enhanced for Saturn hardware. Any links to video or screenshot? (not compare against the Euro version video - the PAL framerate vs Japanese NTSC makes it hard to judge).

What? Seriously? The video posted really looks better than what I remember and what the PAL version looks like on Youtube. It seems to be something dark10x could do with a DF Retro! Perhaps I will take the time and try to get both NTSC versions and try to run them with SSX and make comparison shots.
Also this is one of the games I would really like to see 3d accelerated with yabause which seems to not gain anything from the amazing work with the Saturn code tree of mednafen, sadly

Edit 2:
http://segaretro.org/Tomb_Raider#Japanese_Saturn_version

The Japanese Saturn version, released in 1997, was enhanced by Victor Soft, with more detailed environments, higher texture quality, longer draw distance, and improved water effects. This version also has a higher resolution and frame rate than the Western Saturn and PlayStation versions, and the environments were more detailed than the Western Saturn, PlayStation and PC versions. This version was optimized to take advantage of the way the Saturn handles 3D graphics.

 

[Timu]

Edit 2:
http://segaretro.org/Tomb_Raider#Japanese_Saturn_version

That, is, amazing!!!

 

[c0de]

That, is, amazing!!!

Got me the 2 ntsc versions and now trying to get mednafen running on Linux...

 

[ubersticky]

Wish TR:A would get re-remastered for the PS4/Pro.



Playing as TR2 Lara in Rise is the best.

 

[mrback]

Tomb Raider debuted in 2nd place in the Sega Saturn top 10 chart, but it couldn't make it into the Compact Disc (all formats) top 10 chart.

UK Week 43, 1996.

ha! encarta 97, that made me chuckle

 

[Trunx28]

man I loved that game. Especially when I got my Monster 3d, it played like a charm on my Pentium 133mhz. Had the Demo first, was really impressed by the graphics. I remember showing it to my dad and his only comment was "the water looks odd", lol.

Best parts were the famous T-Rex fight, the "transforms Lara into gold" Midas hand and the Croft Mansion. Played the latter a lot, just jumping around and looking for secrets (loved the Indiana Jones reference).

Never played the console versions, only the infamous N-Gage port. Which was strange as you were running on automatic.

 

[T-0800]

I had Tombraider on Saturn and felt exhausted when I finished it. All those jumps.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

In most cases, they didn't have to. PSone was so insanely popular that developers just flocked to it en masse and barely bothered with the other two.

I don't think it quiiiiite worked that way did it?

The explosion in popularity I believe came AFTER a few major franchises like Final Fantasy were bought. Not to mention a price drop. I think something like 80% of the PlayStions sales came after it dropped to $199 or something like that.

 

[c0de]

Well, I didn't have much time for now and only can use a keyboard but the gym seems to look the same for both NTSC versions. But the J version definitely says "Victor" when booting. I will try to further investigate.

J version:

US version:

Mednafen has some serious input delay which is even worse when controlling Lara via keyboard...

edit:
Apparently, the japanese version also had a bonus track...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rHh3rYInYs

 

[CadetMahoney]

ppl have said all that needs to be said already about the classic TR's/

I do remember seeing some crazy glitch TR3 speedrun which was impressive in general:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR727qXuk8g

 

[ResidentDante]

This game was so mind-blowing when I played it on Saturn, bought at launch.
The level design is still holding up and the atmosphere of being alone and discovering places that no one visited since centuries was really something else.
It was also tough as hell, especially considering these fucking save crystals which disappeared when once used. I also liked the puzzles a lot, although a lot was finding the right keys for the right doors.
And I will never forgive the bad ending - this is all they did for an ending after creating such a great game?!
I am still mad at Sony that they bought TR back then - I really would've liked to see TR2 on Saturn. They already pushed the hardware like almost no other game with its 3d world and scope and I can only imagine what they could've done with a second Tomb Raider on Saturn if money would not have been involved.

Edit:


What? Seriously? The video posted really looks better than what I remember and what the PAL version looks like on Youtube. It seems to be something dark10x could do with a DF Retro! Perhaps I will take the time and try to get both NTSC versions and try to run them with SSX and make comparison shots.
Also this is one of the games I would really like to see 3d accelerated with yabause which seems to not gain anything from the amazing work with the Saturn code tree of mednafen, sadly

Edit 2:
http://segaretro.org/Tomb_Raider#Japanese_Saturn_version

I just went on ebay to get the Japanese TR release. I'll compare them when I get them. My initial problem when trying the PAL Saturn version versus the PAL PS1 are the very apparent slowdowns the Saturn suffers from in large rooms. The first bigger cave with the wolves in for instance drops frames like hell in the Saturn version. Hopefully the Jap version is optimized!

I'll report back. I only get to test them on a PAL Saturn though as such in 25fps versus 30 on the NTSC version.

 

[Duggie_Brown]

What a wonderful era to be playing games in.

I first saw Tomb Raider being demoed on the Saturn in my local GAME shop. Seeing that game being played just blew my mind and I bought a Saturn not long after. That console also ended up being one of my personal favourite consoles ever, so underrated!

Tomb Raider was a great adventure game for it's time. Fantastic atmosphere, fun creative levels, great music and a fresh new character in the form of Lara Croft.

I don't care what people say about how games looked back then or even if they have aged badly. That doesn't matter at all, what matters was how they felt at their time of release and amongst many other titles back then, Tomb Raider was truly unique and memorable and will always be one of my all time favourite games as well as it being linked to my memories of the Saturn! No matter what Sony might try to say, everyone remember that Tomb Raider came on the Sega machine first!

 

[c0de]

I just went on ebay to get the Japanese TR release. I'll compare them when I get them. My initial problem when trying the PAL Saturn version versus the PAL PS1 are the very apparent slowdowns the Saturn suffers from in large rooms. The first bigger cave with the wolves in for instance drops frames like hell in the Saturn version. Hopefully the Jap version is optimized!

I'll report back. I only get to test them on a PAL Saturn though as such in 25fps versus 30 on the NTSC version.

Sadly there is no way to tell mednafen to show the real fps the game is running at.
Again, I hope Tomb Raider gets a DF retro treatment.

 

[Erebus]

ppl have said all that needs to be said already about the classic TR's/

I do remember seeing some crazy glitch TR3 speedrun which was impressive in general:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR727qXuk8g<q class="ytm_descr ytm_block" data-full="Yeahhhh, first TR3 SS ever completed and it's sub 1:30.

In-game time is 1:29:16.

My previous run was segmented. Those splits are from that run. And yes, I forgot to split Tinnos.

Watch me live at http://www.twitch.tv/apel_runner
--------------------------------------
Follow me on Twitter:
http://twitter.com/apel_runner

Visit Tomb Runner:
http://tombrunner.net" title="Click to toggle the length of the description.">Yeahhhh, first TR3 SS ever completed and it's sub 1:30.

In-game time is 1:29:16.

My previous run was segmented. Those splits . . .

That's practically cheating, exploiting all these glitches but it's impressive anyway.

 

[ResidentDante]

Sadly there is no way to tell mednafen to show the real fps the game is running at.
Again, I hope Tomb Raider gets a DF retro treatment.

Yeah a DF episode would be awesome! The framrate is obvious though if you play the Saturn version then the PS1 version. Though maybe the textures look more detailed on the Saturn.

 

[c0de]

Yeah a DF episode would be awesome! The framrate is obvious though if you play the Saturn version then the PS1 version. Though maybe the textures look more detailed on the Saturn.

Found a comparison video but I think the only difference is NTSC vs PAL and darker graphics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQaN5Y8_kds

 

[Massive Nights]

I remember my brother coming with Tomb Raider for the Saturn the day it came out. I also remember being really annoyed by the fact that Lara could do a fancy handstand when pulling herself up onto a ledge in the PS version, but you couldn't do it on the Saturn.

 

[Neff]

I don't think it quiiiiite worked that way did it?

The explosion in popularity I believe came AFTER a few major franchises like Final Fantasy were bought. Not to mention a price drop. I think something like 80% of the PlayStions sales came after it dropped to $199 or something like that.

Psone hit the ground running in '95 with the amazing Ridge Racer and Tekken ports putting Saturn's Daytona and VF ports to shame. Wipeout was huge in Europe, too. In '96 the market was still more or less fair game, although PSone was hitting hard with Resident Evil, Tekken 2 and the superior port of Tomb Raider, and it was seen as the go-to console by many. '97 saw PSone firmly, forever in the lead with Saturn dead and N64 lagging behind, and unless you were on Nintendo or Sega's payroll, you were wasting your time making games for their systems. Psone was so culturally omnipresent back then and so lucrative a business venture for developers that it set a precedent unseen since the NES.

 

[Morfeo]

Congrats Lara! A bit unrelated, but imagine how the industry could have been different if this franchise had stayed on the Saturn.

 

[Morfeo]

Tomb Raider debuted in 2nd place in the Sega Saturn top 10 chart, but it couldn't make it into the Compact Disc (all formats) top 10 chart.

UK Week 43, 1996.

That Sega-dominance. And people say Nintendo dominate their platforms?

 

[sublimit]

I'll just leave this here too:
Untold Riches: The Intricate Platforming of Tomb Raider
It has been posted a couple of times over the years in TR threads but unfortunatelly because Lara's shadow casts heavily on this game the discussions for this series almost always evolve around the (shallow) subject of Lara when the true Tomb Raider has always been about its gameplay (pre-AoD/Crystal Dynamics).Therefore i think we need more reminders about the brilliance of its gameplay (like this article is showcasing) and less about Lara.

 

[11037]

This was the first video game I ever played. I have so many fond memories of it. I think I'm going to have to replay it tonight.

 

[LordKasual]

This was such an excellent platformer. To this day, the only games that have had me legit scared to progress have been Bloodborne and Tomb Raider 1.

In fact, Tomb Raider shares similarities with Bloodborne in more than one aspect. The game gets progressively darker and more...weird as you get towards the end.

 

[Bloodporne]

I'll just leave this here too:
Untold Riches: The Intricate Platforming of Tomb Raider
It has been posted a couple of times over the years in TR threads but unfortunatelly because Lara's shadow casts heavily on this game the discussions for this series almost always evolve around the (shallow) subject of Lara when the true Tomb Raider has always been about its gameplay (pre-AoD/Crystal Dynamics).Therefore i think we need more reminders about the brilliance of its gameplay (like this article is showcasing) and less about Lara.

Great article that puts into proper words what I always try to articulate about the series. I think the platforming and traversal is amazing to this day.

Is there any way to play the PC version of TR1/TR2/TR3 with a gamepad these days by teh way? Really would love to replay them with nicer graphics.

 

[Bioshocker]

What an amazing experience that game was. I remember playing it on my Saturn (don't remember when, but it must have been 1996 or 1997). I had goosebumps. I celebrated Lara's 20th birthday yesterday by buying the collector's edition of Rise of the Tomb Raider.

Lara is still a modern heroine, and Rise shows that Tomb Raider is just as relevant as an adventure and action game like the first one was in 1996. I hope Resident Evil 7 will be a similiar reboot of that franchise as Tomb Raider (2013) was for TR.

 

[The Praiseworthy]

When the series was known for it's atmosphere and sense of isolation :"(

Replaying the game at the moment on my iPhone 7 Plus.

 

[sublimit]

Great article that puts into proper words what I always try to articulate about the series. I think the platforming and traversal is amazing to this day.

Some of the comments in that article are very interesting to read too,maybe even better at explaining the essence of the classic TR games than the article itself.

 

[ResidentDante]

Found a comparison video but I think the only difference is NTSC vs PAL and darker graphics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQaN5Y8_kds

Yeah that was a difficult video to see the differences in. Looking forward to testing it myself!

 

[c0de]

Yeah that was a difficult video to see the differences in. Looking forward to testing it myself!

And I am looking forward to your findings!

 

[Sub_Level]

Found a video of the japanese saturn version compared to PAL saturn.

Japanese version looks and runs significantly better. Very surprised.

 

[Mato]

The occasion has re-heightened my appreciation of the original trilogy. Currently replaying TRII. Atmosphere and level design remain extremely good. Low-poly minimalism and silence. Pure mystery and adventure. It's meditative. I've spiraled down into a TR madness, please help.

Most contemporary adventure games are such information hogs. Just incomprehensible visual and aural noise.

 

[Katana_Strikes]

Great game. Remember it well. Some magnificent levels and puzzles. It was unlike anything I'd played at the time. And Lara was an icon. Fantastic music to boot. A far cry from where and what she and TR is today.

 

[Timu]

Found a video of the japanese saturn version compared to PAL saturn.

Japanese version looks and runs significantly better. Very surprised.

That Japanese version is looking great!

 

[MrCunningham]

Well, I didn't have much time for now and only can use a keyboard but the gym seems to look the same for both NTSC versions. But the J version definitely says "Victor" when booting. I will try to further investigate.

J version:

US version:

Mednafen has some serious input delay which is even worse when controlling Lara via keyboard...

edit:
Apparently, the japanese version also had a bonus track...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rHh3rYInYs

Yeah, I am not seeing a big difference in those two screenshots, but I am still curious if there is a difference between the US and Japanese versions of the Saturn game.

Yeah a DF episode would be awesome! The framrate is obvious though if you play the Saturn version then the PS1 version. Though maybe the textures look more detailed on the Saturn.

Heh, yeah, I would like to see a DF Foundry video on this too.

 

[Pilgrimzero]

Such fond memories of playing the original on PS1. Grueling a trend setting game.

I miss old Lara.

 

[Cafeman]

Edit 2:
http://segaretro.org/Tomb_Raider#Jap...Saturn_version
The Japanese Saturn version, released in 1997, was enhanced by Victor Soft, with more detailed environments, higher texture quality, longer draw distance, and improved water effects. This version also has a higher resolution and frame rate than the Western Saturn and PlayStation versions, and the environments were more detailed than the Western Saturn, PlayStation and PC versions. This version was optimized to take advantage of the way the Saturn handles 3D graphics.

That is the only site which claims this, it seems. Did segaretro.org make that up? Keep playing the two versions and see if anything seems better. The Gym might not have been affected by the port improvements. IF there actually are any.

 

[c0de]

That is the only site which claims this, it seems. Did segaretro.org make that up? Keep playing the two versions and see if anything seems better. The Gym might not have been affected by the port improvements. IF there actually are any.

I'm not at work currently but IIRC the resolution was exactly the same between US and JP version.

 

[Erebus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPfdFytYKQQ

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...aider-story-told-by-the-people-who-were-there

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

What an amazing experience that game was. I remember playing it on my Saturn (don't remember when, but it must have been 1996 or 1997). I had goosebumps. I celebrated Lara's 20th birthday yesterday by buying the collector's edition of Rise of the Tomb Raider.

Lara is still a modern heroine, and Rise shows that Tomb Raider is just as relevant as an adventure and action game like the first one was in 1996. I hope Resident Evil 7 will be a similiar reboot of that franchise as Tomb Raider (2013) was for TR.

Really? I've yet to try Rise though I should at some point, but the 2013 reboot for me was an awful game that felt like it had practically nothing in common with Tomb Raider at all. Is Rise really that much of a deviation from the 2013 game?

 

[MrCunningham]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPfdFytYKQQ

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...aider-story-told-by-the-people-who-were-there

Really great retrospective from Eurogamer.

Before Tomb Raider, I mostly recognized Core Design for their Sega CD games. Chuck Rock 1 and 2, Thunderhawk, Jaguar XJ220, BC Racers and Soulstar. But they were incredibly active on the Amiga, Atari ST, Genesis/ Mega Drive and Sega CD.

Also, the original design for Lara Croft when she was still called Laura Cruz...

Laura Cruz was originally suppose be from South American and hispanic, but the final design she became British.

 

[Cafeman]

I'm not at work currently but IIRC the resolution was exactly the same between US and JP version.

So you didn't notice any graphical improvements at all in the Japan version? Final time I as, but I was curious. I got interested reading the segaretro blurb about VictorSoft's improvments, but it sounds like that is fiction now.

But the thing is, it sounds reasonable since the 2nd wave of Saturn titles all showed remarkable improvements over the early Saturn games.

 

[c0de]

So you didn't notice any graphical improvements at all in the Japan version? Final time I as, but I was curious. I got interested reading the segaretro blurb about VictorSoft's improvments, but it sounds like that is fiction now.

But the thing is, it sounds reasonable since the 2nd wave of Saturn titles all showed remarkable improvements over the early Saturn games.

Not in the gym and I have close to no time currently to do further testing.
The game *is* running at better speed, though, but I don't know if this is just due to the fact that it is NTSC, I played PAL back then. Also mednafen doesn't tell you the Saturn framerate but how it is rendering a scene which gives you no hint of whether the game performs better in JP version.
That said, isn't TR considered to be a second wave game?

 

[Bloodporne]

I know the thread is probably dead by now but anyway:

This whole talk had me break out my old PS1 disc and actually look into an emulator for an 'enhanced experience' type of playthrough on my PC.

I'm currently playing through TR1 on ePSXe and the upscaled resolution etc. works beautifully for this game. It looks fantastic for a game of its age and type actually and I'm in love with the gameplay all over again. Only got about 2 hours in so far but already hooked again.

Next up will be TR2 and TR3 (which I never beat before).

 

[Schopenhauerian]

This whole talk had me break out my old PS1 disc and actually look into an emulator for an 'enhanced experience' type of playthrough on my PC.

I'm currently playing through TR1 on ePSXe and the upscaled resolution etc. works beautifully for this game. It looks fantastic for a game of its age and type actually and I'm in love with the gameplay all over again. Only got about 2 hours in so far but already hooked again.

Have you looked at either PCSXR or Mednafen/Beetle with PGXP? Haven't yet had a chance to try it myself, but I've seen it recommended a few times (one / two / three).

 

[F-Pina]

Cool. Played back then when it came out on the Saturn, didn't play TR2 or 3.

 

[Cafeman]

I know the thread is probably dead by now but anyway:

This whole talk had me break out my old PS1 disc and actually look into an emulator for an 'enhanced experience' type of playthrough on my PC.

I'm currently playing through TR1 on ePSXe and the upscaled resolution etc. works beautifully for this game. It looks fantastic for a game of its age and type actually and I'm in love with the gameplay all over again. Only got about 2 hours in so far but already hooked again.

Next up will be TR2 and TR3 (which I never beat before).

I have been replaying TR on my PS2. JUst finished the Cistern level. I had to drop the water and re-raise it to get all the silver keys, ARGH!

Textures are more pixilated than I remember, but I am playing on a big HDTV now so it's more noticeable. Also lots of poly flicker and dropouts. (That early 3D...)

 

[IronicSonic]

Wow, now I'm courious about that JP ver. It's cheap on amazon...