I have no problem with the pre-game post. It's everything after that gives me pause, as her posts are so non-committal I can't say anything either way.
The thing about Style is, his play as scum would be very haphazard for today. I was scum reading him prior to his clash with Flux, but would scum really try and out two power roles? Seems unlikely, though I'm thinking he might be a neutral now after knowing that, which is honestly not that reassuring.
I agree on Style, his play is too haphazard to be scum. That said though, that isn't an actual excuse. I think exmachina said that mafia has found a way to predict all human behavior so here's another one.
The argument looks good on paper and I've used it myself a couple times in this game but don't write someone off completely if the only the only reason for the read is that they are acting too scummy.
Sorian can play a very convincing game as scum, lots of people thought his scum game in the championship was the strongest in the entire series and he fooled me the last game we played.
PK Gaming seems to only be focused in how scum read they are. The response to pressure just felt "oh shit, gotta fake some solving so I look townie" and I don't know why he's scum reading Flux. There were some Phoenix Wright gifs, but no reasoning between them.
It's also a weird way to respond as newbie town. I can understand frustrated, oblivious to why they're scum read, overly defensive etc., but that didn't read like a newbie town. It felt too artificial.
Sorian is one of our best players, I always want to believe he is town day 1 just because scum Sorian is scary good at hiding. He is trying to have fun with the game, and while I'm not behind his actual scum hunting, I find his antics pretty town based on my opinion.
PK? The gifs get me. Also when reading the thread straight through his thought process is a little more apparent.
I know you are trying to dig deep to make me solidify a read on Flux but you're digging too hard for something that's not there. Flux is weird too read because his best tell is that he cracks easily the longer the game goes on. I don't expect to fully read him one way or another today. It's kind of gut that I say he is town so far just because I see no real agenda behind his play.
I, famously (sure, let's call it famously), did this exact thing when I was scum in that championship game. I played it off when someone called me on it and I wonder if it's a mistake I would have made as town too but pointing it out anyway. A bus implies that you are scum and that the person you just voted for was scum. You can't bus as town.
That said, my real issue with you is that this is the second time (at least) that you've claimed we need to consolidate votes. It reads more like trying to scare someone off of a vote you don't like. Regardless of that though, I think Vanguard is still the smart vote here which is why I haven't moved in awhile. Style could be either alignment but I think Vanguard's flip tells a better story, is likelier to be scum, and gives more evidence towards Style being evil as well if I'm right.
I didn't realize the term bus implied scum. Just an issue if semantics.
I do think we're getting nowhere as we haven't put pressure on anyone. This is just going to end up in a bus at the last minute, as usual. I'd like to avoid this.
I didn't realize the term bus implied scum. Just an issue if semantics.
I do think we're getting nowhere as we haven't put pressure on anyone. This is just going to end up in a bus at the last minute, as usual. I'd like to avoid this.
Style has had pressure all day and has reacted to it. Otherwise, the people getting pressure, Vanguard, FEP, PK, others that I am blanking on at the moment, have all remained extremely calm under duress which has led many to move on from them. It's not a lack of pressure, it's a lack of reactions which is good and bad. Good in that I'm not worried about a flight risk if someone is under pressure/a hasty role claim but bad in that we are shooting more in the dark without hasty reactions to actually read.
It's also compounded by the inactivity issue. We keep calling out people like Rats and get no response so they, too, are getting skipped over in convo because you can't do much else without them being here. That's led to an echo chamber where we keep going back to debating Style.
I also continued to use the phrase bus incorrectly after getting called on it to make people think it was just my semantics.
It was a very boring game, all 3 scum were super inactive and probably the only exciting bit was Hyper telling everyone we were scum when he meant to say we were town and people actually latching onto it for a bit.
My issue with Vanguard is not the RNG...but the fact that he hasnt really contributed or moved his vote since. It's really hard to separate scummy behavior from lack of interest.
Then again I'm really puzzled at Sorian's insistence on lynching Vanguard and his initial reasoning behind it. I kind of agree with the choice in hindsight, but the initial vote just seems weird to me.
My issue with Vanguard is not the RNG...but the fact that he hasnt really contributed or moved his vote since. It's really hard to separate scummy behavior from lack of interest.
Then again I'm really puzzled at Sorian's insistence on lynching Vanguard and his initial reasoning behind it. I kind of agree with the choice in hindsight, but the initial vote just seems weird to me.
My initial vote was only partially due to the RNG but that's boiling away the bigger issue. It's that he RNG voted at a point where he could have easily made an actual stand. In the very same post, he talks about how he would rather not talk about Star's pre-game post which insinuates to me that he finds it to be a waste of time. If that's the case, why not harp on some of the people who were insisting on talking about it? It was a light point but it stuck out to me that day when I was seeing if I wanted my vote somewhere else before going to work. I didn't think I'd be keeping my vote there this long but hiding in his shell and sticking to his guns on that RNG vote isn't exactly making me want to switch.
How was that an incorrect use of the word bus? >_>
I agree that were glossing over better targets. But I've tried to put pressure on the inactives and it doesn't help that everyone else is just content to ignore them. It's gotten a bit frustrating at this point.
How was that an incorrect use of the word bus? >_>
I agree that were glossing over better targets. But I've tried to put pressure on the inactives and it doesn't help that everyone else is just content to ignore them. It's gotten a bit frustrating at this point.
Again, a bus implies scum voting out scum. So a bus in the last few minutes is actually very good for us because that means a dead scum. We'd have to sort out which of the teammates was trying to get credit for lynching scum but that's not a huge deal.
How was that an incorrect use of the word bus? >_>
I agree that were glossing over better targets. But I've tried to put pressure on the inactives and it doesn't help that everyone else is just content to ignore them. It's gotten a bit frustrating at this point.
I'm not sure what you're expecting when we've all but asked them for alignment every other page with no response. Final choice would be to hit them with a flood of votes which I wouldn't want to do, just in case scum latch on for an easy lynch.
The thing about Style is, his play as scum would be very haphazard for today. I was scum reading him prior to his clash with Flux, but would scum really try and out two power roles? Seems unlikely, though I'm thinking he might be a neutral now after knowing that, which is honestly not that reassuring.
The way I see it maybe Style thinks he will not survive the lynch this phase so it would make sense to look for power roles. He could think he has nothing to loose. My main issue with Style is how he changed his playstyle completly. He went from trying to please town to being confrontative. Like he realized that his agenda wasn't working and did a 180° to try to gain town credit.
Style has had pressure all day and has reacted to it. Otherwise, the people getting pressure, Vanguard, FEP, PK, others that I am blanking on at the moment, have all remained extremely calm under duress which has led many to move on from them. It's not a lack of pressure, it's a lack of reactions which is good and bad. Good in that I'm not worried about a flight risk if someone is under pressure/a hasty role claim but bad in that we are shooting more in the dark without hasty reactions to actually read.
What do you think about what I said yesterday. Player A select 3 names and ask a player B what he thinks about them. Player B shares his views and then selects 3 names for player C and so on. This could give us some read and opinions that we could use further in the game. And the challenges are trending now.
@FEP: I'm here and I will remain here for a while. Shoot me with your best shoot.
The way I see it maybe Style thinks he will not survive the lynch this phase so it would make sense to look for power roles. He could think he has nothing to loose. My main issue with Style is how he changed his playstyle completly. He went from trying to please town to being confrontative. Like he realized that his agenda wasn't working and did a 180° to try to gain town credit.
Shhh. You are dead.
What do you think about what I said yesterday. Player A select 3 names and ask a player B what he thinks about them. Player B shares his views and then selects 3 names for player C and so on. This could give us some read and opinions that we could use further in the game. And the challenges are trending now.
@FEP: I'm here and I will remain here for a while. Shoot me with your best shoot.
Seems like a convoluted idea, everyone should provide good detailed reads before tomorrow at day end. I'm at a work meeting but I had intended to do a full reads list at some point tonight since I'm finally off. I expect everyone else to do something as concise as well
Natico: I will be honest. I had to reread Natico's post because he flew under my radar. He was in my "People who are playing but in the sidelines". At first Natico acted like a newbie would act, a couple of question regarding rules and such. I was Ok with that, typical newbie behaviour (besides his aligment). His error of the scum chat seemed genuine. I liked his questioning to Style about his playstyle (here) as I was thinking the same thing when I readed Style post. And after that he kind of gone. He voted on Kernel which was an easy vote to make, gave the same arguments that everyone gave before about sketch, and gave a non commitment read on PK. I don't have him in either scum or town list. I think we need to put a little more pressure on him, ask for his reads on anothers players to form a better opinion.
Vere: With Vere I'm leaning town. I have previously played before with scum Vere and he was a lot more agressive than this game. I had to call him out because he overreactive with a really passive agressive answer to a simple question. He is not like that in this game. To me it looks as he has nothing to lose. I could be wrong. Besides our previous games and finding that we have similar opinion regarding other players so he is ok for now with me.
Sorian: Sorian is a big gray area for me. I know he is a good player, but he is good at town and also as scum. My biggest concern about Sorian is that he tends to lead the game so if he is scum he could be a mayor problem for town. But there is a good thing: Sorian is a really active player who gives a lot of reads. That means that if he is town he should be a very important scum target. If Sorian stays alive for too long is suspicious. I would leave he out of lynching for the first couple of days, take notes on all of his reads and if he is not killed by night 3 I would lynch him day 4. We would have a lot to work with either way he flips.
Let's see what you think about: Flux, PK gaming and Style.
Flux I have been reading as town but I was a bit surprised by yesterday's interaction with PK and Style. It kind of happened, escalated, and then just died on a pretty weird note. Similarly, I was a bit surprised by his interaction with you back when you were calling out exmachina on page three. I wasn't happy with either side of that talk, but the naivete from Flux seemed feigned. Similar to a goat not knowing what a bus is.
Style is my current vote. I tend to agree that he just got broke yesterday and may be in a kind of desperate newbie town vote leader position. Which lends weight to his callout on Flux. Puts him in a weird spot I don't care for because voting him could actually be dangerous for us. I think he's put himself in a place where he needs to claim today but we'll see.
PK I gave some thoughts on yesterday. Hrs definitely present now which is good. Sorian called him so newbie town it hurts. I think that could have been scripted but I play a pretty paranoid and mechanical game myself so there nothing deep in the feeling. The posting style change between pre and post game is not something that bothers me so much as the flair for the dramatic that has yet to coincide with substance. He hasn't done anything necessarily antitown yet though imo.
If you had to pick a 5-person scum team right now, who would be on it? Just names are fine.
5 mafia? I'm leaning to 4 and a neutral. But I will give you five: exmachina, Style, WAMD, Vanguard and Buzzard (I'm not too sure about Buzzard, let's say he's my least town).
Rats and Zipped are in a no info group so they could be either way.
And I want to add something: I think that if exmachina is scum Vanguard isn't and viceversa. I don't see them together but have both in my "possible scum" list.
I don't see a scum team calling themselves like this. Both of them are just diverting the attention on the other. It's really suspicious on both of them. If they are both scum I don't know what they would expect to gain from it.
But they both could be town. I'm know for making a lot of theories that are reaaaally wrong.
I like Sorian so far. When the thread is active, he generates some good reads/conversation. He could be a shadow, but I won't have a better idea until at least Day 3.
Ty4on and I are both part of PoliGAF, so I'm happy to see him here. He jumped into the game quickly and I'll admit I have a bias against seeing him as a shadow. I like how much more activity he's brought to the thread and I consider him to be a Persona user.
I don't have a good read on Plop right now, his posts just don't stand out to me. I wish he was more active and he could be either.
I like Sorian so far. When the thread is active, he generates some good reads/conversation. He could be a shadow, but I won't have a better idea until at least Day 3.
Ty4on and I are both part of PoliGAF, so I'm happy to see him here. He jumped into the game quickly and I'll admit I have a bias against seeing him as a shadow. I like how much more activity he's brought to the thread and I consider him to be a Persona user.
I don't have a good read on Plop right now, his posts just don't stand out to me. I wish he was more active and he could be either.
Sorry, I just have a lot filling my day (full time school and work, and two kids under 3). Not making excuses because I made a commitment to this, but just explaining.
I usually get a chance to catch up once my kids are in bed, so gimme a couple hours and I'll catch up and post my thoughts (if any).
Oh and just so people don't think I'm lurking and then suddenly posting when I'm called out: When I get a chance to check the thread, I immediately do a keyword search for my username to be polite and answer anyone who talks to me while I'm gone.
Sorry, I just have a lot filling my day (full time school and work, and two kids under 3). Not making excuses because I made a commitment to this, but just explaining.
I usually get a chance to catch up once my kids are in bed, so gimme a couple hours and I'll catch up and post my thoughts (if any).
Natico- I'm going to say he had a good showing the first day, spent time asking questions and engaging others but somewhere between now and yesterday went underground, which is kind of weird because I wouldn't remember that if you didn't ask about him. I'll wait on judgement because he's new and did seem eager to contribute, added that I somewhat have a good feeling about him (could change when he returns).
Verelios- Pass
Sorian- He moves conversation and regardless of alignment, that's important when things get stale. I'm placing Sorian in a null category for now and I'll be coming back to this when he has some votes on record that I can get an inference from. What's especially maddening is I'm suspicious on principle of him being a good player but I have nothing concrete except conspiracy theories, and that's not fair to him (I say this but I'll continue doing it).
Sorry, I just have a lot filling my day (full time school and work, and two kids under 3). Not making excuses because I made a commitment to this, but just explaining.
I usually get a chance to catch up once my kids are in bed, so gimme a couple hours and I'll catch up and post my thoughts (if any).
Oh and just so people don't think I'm lurking and then suddenly posting when I'm called out: When I get a chance to check the thread, I immediately do a keyword search for my username to be polite and answer anyone who talks to me while I'm gone.
I like Sorian so far. When the thread is active, he generates some good reads/conversation. He could be a shadow, but I won't have a better idea until at least Day 3.
Sorian: Sorian is a big gray area for me. I know he is a good player, but he is good at town and also as scum. My biggest concern about Sorian is that he tends to lead the game so if he is scum he could be a mayor problem for town. But there is a good thing: Sorian is a really active player who gives a lot of reads. That means that if he is town he should be a very important scum target. If Sorian stays alive for too long is suspicious. I would leave he out of lynching for the first couple of days, take notes on all of his reads and if he is not killed by night 3 I would lynch him day 4. We would have a lot to work with either way he flips.
Oh and just so people don't think I'm lurking and then suddenly posting when I'm called out: When I get a chance to check the thread, I immediately do a keyword search for my username to be polite and answer anyone who talks to me while I'm gone.
He explicitly explained himself. You've already breacrumbed a claim once...when you say "I'll know more by day 3" instead of "We'll know more by day 3" it just sounded like another soft claim. I guess it wasn't.
FEP/franco - I mostly suspect FEP due to him posting a whole lot of nothing, and pretending to contribute by asking us for specific reads. But his own reads are just regurgitations of the same reads everyone has done on Style/PK. Now, I suspect franco for one reason: his confrontation with FEP. They just kind of targetted each other from day 1, then confronted, and then just let the confrontation die. It really seemed like it was for show more than anything.
StarSketch - just been "checking-in" and not really providing any original thought whatsoever...could be a lack of commitment but she seems to imply she's experienced at the game. I think she might trying to avoid being the subject of discussion.
Style - I'm really not quite sure what to think. I don't think his original vote to follow Sorian was a big deal...very common for new players to jump on board with more experienced players. But his play style then has just been weird.
Sorian - Maybe I'm just not happy about being suspected, but I don't like how Sorian made a big deal about my misuse of the term "bus". Grasping at straws, which is also how he came up with a vote against Vanguard.
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Inactives who could easily be scum but we have absolutely no reads on:
Rats
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Townies:
Flux, Verelios, Ty4on.
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Neutral:
PK has been a target for all the wrong reasons. But he reminds me a lot of Gorlak who was a neutral in HP Mafia. Opinionated, confrontational. Plays like someone who is trying to make the game interesting.
Don't really have any strong feelings about anyone else.
He explicitly explained himself. You've already breacrumbed a claim once...when you say "I'll know more by day 3" instead of "We'll know more by day 3" it just sounded like another soft claim. I guess it wasn't.
Perspective is different in that I was talking about a teammate bussing me whereas exodus is talking about him bussing someone else but the "slip" remains the same. Again, hardly a huge deal but since I'm already bothered by exodus, it bothered me more.
Weird, I remembered Immortal's post, but not really the situation
Probably because there were IIRC more situations like this where they briefly got suspicious of you before moving on.
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Responding to what do you think of Nakito, Verelios and Sorian:
Nakito is doing the right things (being a proactive townie) so I town read him from that, but it also feels like he's floating above the game, neither being aggressive nor attacked.
Verelios I still lean town on and I liked his last posts, but my read is mostly gut, haven't really looked at his posts closely.
I felt like I've said what I feel about Sorian. The arrow is maybe pointing more in the townie area now.
I dunno why, but somehow I have a hard time believing both Flux and Sorian are town. Pokemon Syndrome maybe.
Sorry for making so many references. The most widely town read and otherwise active person in Pokemon Mafia was scum.
Sorian - Maybe I'm just not happy about being suspected, but I don't like how Sorian made a big deal about my misuse of the term "bus". Grasping at straws, which is also how he came up with a vote against Vanguard.
Playing the newbie card and asking if there are any power roles. Either breadcrumbing or role fishing. I have to think even a newbie wouldn't assume there weren't any power roles in the game.
This "breadcrumbing" thing again. I can't decide if I like that you keep mentioning it or not. The first incident seemed so dishonest from everyone.
Let's lay shit out on the table now though. Machina soft claimed straight up as far as I'm concerned. Style has insinuated he is a PR and that Flux is too. Flux plopped on him and then plip-plopped back onto PK before vanishing.
Style is our vote leader, despite many thinking that he may actually be town pressured into insanity. If he flips town, Flux is basically gone.
What do we want to do?
Also, where is Starsketch? Where is Rats? Where is Vanguard? Where is Zipped?
Sorian - Maybe I'm just not happy about being suspected, but I don't like how Sorian made a big deal about my misuse of the term "bus". Grasping at straws, which is also how he came up with a vote against Vanguard.
Going to start working on a reads list now with all of my thoughts together in one place but this is cute. I specifically say that the bus thing is a small niggle while my real issue is how you keep trying to get people to votes down to very few people but sure, your misuse of bus was the big deal. I also notice that I already talked about exactly what it was that was my issue with Vanguard but you glossed that and came back to it later with a "grasping at straws" line. It's clear you're trying to undermine certain opinions, I'm keeping it in mind.
FEP/franco - I mostly suspect FEP due to him posting a whole lot of nothing, and pretending to contribute by asking us for specific reads. But his own reads are just regurgitations of the same reads everyone has done on Style/PK. Now, I suspect franco for one reason: his confrontation with FEP. They just kind of targetted each other from day 1, then confronted, and then just let the confrontation die. It really seemed like it was for show more than anything.
On this: I just let the confrontation die because I got what I wanted. I wanted to bring FEP into the game. He made a vote against me and when I tried to engage in a discussion he avoided and decided to post only fluff. That's why I went overagressive with him. I want to have reads on the people who vote for me. And that's why I proposed the game. Now I know what are FEP reads on several people. If you look at the names I gave him you could see that clearly. I have my answers so I don't need anything more from him. I can move to a diferent target now.
So a bus in the last few minutes is actually very good for us because that means a dead scum. We'd have to sort out which of the teammates was trying to get credit for lynching scum but that's not a huge deal.