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[JeffZero]

FFVI diehards, I'd love it if a couple of you would sell me on what makes it one of the best games ever for you. As I said upthread, I still like the game, but for one reason or another I just haven't felt much attachment to it since I first played it (on Anthology for PSX, even).

I know this is off-topic, but hey, we're all basically talking about CT and VI at this point, anyway.

 

[Sephzilla]

We're doing this, right? *crickets* Well fine, I'll do this without you.

Best. Game. Ever. Tier
Final Fantasy VI
Final Fantasy VII
Chrono Trigger - If Chrono Trigger carried the Final Fantasy name I legitimately think it would be considered the GOAT of the franchise

Top. Ten. Games. Ever. Tier
Final Fantasy IX

Great Games, But Not The Best Tier
Final Fantasy IV
Final Fantasy X / X2

Decent Games Tier
Final Fantasy V
Final Fantasy VIII
Final Fantasy XII
Final Fantasy

Audible Meh Games Tier
Final Fantasy XIII
Final Fantasy II
Final Fantasy III

Mystic Quest Tier
Final Fantasy Mystic Quest

FFVI diehards, I'd love it if a couple of you would sell me on what makes it one of the best games ever for you. As I said upthread, I still like the game, but for one reason or another I just haven't felt much attachment to it since I first played it (on Anthology for PSX, even).

I know this is off-topic, but hey, we're all basically talking about CT and VI at this point, anyway.

It has the deepest roster of actually interesting characters in any game in the franchise. FF6 is probably the most character driven game in the franchise. The world is all of the best things about classic Final Fantasy with a faint touch of sci-fi also thrown in. It has absolutely fantastic music. FF6 also had a really good pulse on when to be serious and when to be funny. The only weakness with FF6 is that it has a pretty weak villain.

 

[Muffdraul]

While we're at it, FFIV is a better Final Fantasy game than FFVI.

FFIV was my first FF in 1992, and it was very nearly my only FF because I hated it so much. Only reason I became an FF fan was that I was badgered into playing FFVI when it came out with promises that "No matter how much you hated FFIV, you'll love FFVI. It's like 100x better." I didn't believe them, but I played FFVI just to get them off my back about it. And I was very happy to see that they were totally right.

 

[Defective14]

A lot of people only like Trigger because of Toriyama's design work.

Can we also discuss how in canon Crono and Marle had to duck out like cowards due to a peasant uprising?

Ha!

 

[Burt]

More importantly, I just found out like this year that this

is supposed to be perceived like this

And isn't a vegetable body with a beaked head on top.

But yeah, final form Lavos looks like a schlub.

 

[JeffZero]

*snip*

Hey, you used my format! xD

 

[dLMN8R]

Coincidentally I just beat the game on 3DS for my first time ever. Many false starts over the last two decades where I got halfway through and then stopped on SNES, but finally completed it this time.

Amazing game! But yes, that final boss design is super weird.

I'm also impressed by how vast it is, but in retrospect it's also surprising just how...limiting the open world feels. Like you have all these amazing era to go to, but really only a few points of note in each.


Still amazing for its time though!

 

[TheUntamedLegend]

The right pod is the real Lavos.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

Chrono Cross the better game.

The issue with Chrono Trigger is that people hold it to be this timeless classic...when it's not at all whatsoever.

you're as wrong as the people you're challenging

 

[Seik]

:lol

I thought the OG gif would be perfect, inverted. Glad to know I was right.

OT: Yeah, I understand the feeling, OP, but it stays a great final boss fight!

 

[Defective14]

FFVI diehards, I'd love it if a couple of you would sell me on what makes it one of the best games ever for you. As I said upthread, I still like the game, but for one reason or another I just haven't felt much attachment to it since I first played it (on Anthology for PSX, even).

I know this is off-topic, but hey, we're all basically talking about CT and VI at this point, anyway.

Just a few bullet points as to why I find this to be my favorite game of all time:

- First FF to step outside the crystals trope that I - V were wrapped up in.

- 14 playable characters (2-3 of which were optional), all have fleshed out backstory and motivations to take out Kefka

- No single main character, ties into previous point above

- Bad guy wins halfway through the game. Kefka literally destroys the world and becomes Boss Kefka ruling over everyone.

- The story is grandiose in scale and epic in nature. The battle system also is the genesis of the limit break system that became popular in FF7. Critical Arts helped pave the way for that feature in future FF games.

- Opera Scene is pretty iconic.

- Final boss fight and its theme is simply one of the best FF has ever put forth. Definitely one of Uematsu's masterpieces.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Toriyama likes 3 toed final boss designs that get smaller as they power up. Lavos is basically Frieza in a bigger spacesuit.

I think it's goofy but it fits the artist's preferences and it's an interesting way to progress from a faceless, motionless demigod of a boss (Lavos Shell) to an intimidating giant machine (Lavos Armor) to something that looks...mortal (Lavos Core). Lavos becomes more beatable the longer you fight him. It's a nice idea.

FFVI diehards, I'd love it if a couple of you would sell me on what makes it one of the best games ever for you. As I said upthread, I still like the game, but for one reason or another I just haven't felt much attachment to it since I first played it (on Anthology for PSX, even).

I know this is off-topic, but hey, we're all basically talking about CT and VI at this point, anyway.

On my first playthrough, I was moved by the tragic loss of my friends that I couldn't prevent in the world of ruin.
On my second playthrough, I realized that I could save some of those lives if I did things differently.
And then someone told me I could save Shadow and it blew my goddamn mind.

It was that exact design decision that cements VI at the top of the 16-bit heap, and why people kept looking for ways to save Aeris' life in VII. Death wasn't cheap in that game the way it was in IV, and that was a huge leap in storytelling at the time.

I don't know that if I had grown up in the age of faqs and looking up answers to puzzles for everything that VI would have had the same impact on me as it did when I was much younger, but I think this adequately explains my connection to that one title.

 

[Defective14]

you're as wrong as the people you're challenging

I mean...that's just your opinion. Trigger is okay, at best. Cross easily beats it out in game play, story, battle mechanics, etc.

Well...in my mind, anyway. It's much more enjoyable than Trigger.

 

[Esque7]

If there's anything wrong with CT, it's the battle system isn't interesting enough. Maybe at the time it was fine but it is rather basic and becomes stale throughout the game. Luckily the game never overstays its welcome.

 

[The n00b Avenger]

also the game is way to easy and uses the same gimmick (attack the healer first) for boss battles over and over

Did you even play for more than 3 hours? That gimmick is literally only used for the Dragon Tank. Hell, they even put in a boss later on where killing all the healers first actually makes the boss harder.

Not going to say that game wasn't easy or anything but come on.

 

[JinjoUnchained]

We should call this thread Adam Ruins Chrono Trigger since a lot of posters are trying to nitpick one of the all time greats. It's a brilliant game that still plays very well today.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Did you even play for more than 3 hours? That gimmick is literally only used for the Dragon Tank. Hell, they even put in a boss later on where killing all the healers first actually makes the boss harder.

Not going to say that game wasn't easy or anything but come on.

well it was many years since i played it

but there were so many bosses with different parts where you needed to attack the right one first

 

[Dreavus]

That'd be wrong then, because Cross is awesome.

Regarding the topic, the real Lavos core is the right bit. The center bit is just a decoy to grab the party's attention.

I think it's appearance is meant to signify that Lavos has been absorbing the DNA of all creatures on the planet, and since the dominant species are humans/humanoid, it had begun to mutate into a more humanoid state.

That kind of works, I guess!

As a kid thought it was some kind of "pilot" for the whole creature, but that explanation really kills the whole point of Lavos being this millenia-spanning planet-eating species. You even fight Lavos Spawn a couple times and that falls apart if they are just supposed to be bio-ships.

It's probably best to just lump it in with other incomprehensible end boss forms that come at the end of a lot of RPGs. Lavos works a lot better as a Eldritch Horror/Force of Nature type of threat IMO.

 

[Defective14]

We should call this thread Adam Ruins Chrono Trigger since a lot of posters are trying to nitpick one of the all time greats. It's a brilliant game that still plays very well today.

Objectivley, CT is brilliant and historically important, no doubt; however, it's far from a timeless classic a lot of Trigger fans like to purport it to be. It's very important for the SNES JRPG genre and I'm glad it's adored by many. I just happen to not be one of them.

 

[antitrop]

If there's anything wrong with CT, it's the battle system isn't interesting enough. Maybe at the time it was fine but it is rather basic and becomes stale throughout the game. Luckily the game never overstays its welcome.

I am Setsuna tried tweaking it a bit and only made it worse. I'm not saying it's perfect, but it was certainly good enough.

 

[Kaisos]

You know why FFVI sucks? Because of a playable cast of fourteen characters, only three of them manage to be women.

 

[Sephzilla]

If there's anything wrong with CT, it's the battle system isn't interesting enough. Maybe at the time it was fine but it is rather basic and becomes stale throughout the game. Luckily the game never overstays its welcome.

On this note, I actually think the length of Chrono Trigger is kind of a plus. All of the Final Fantasy games, and Chrono Cross for that matter, have a point where it feels like the game is really dragging on - even FF6 and FF7 have these moments. Chrono Trigger doesn't overstay its welcome and it avoids that feeling as a result.

 

[Zhao_Yun]

The problem with CT is that its OST is inferior to Cross.

Spoiler

(it's still great though =P)

 

[Anoregon]

People who rail on about how Cross is a better game than Trigger are just adorable.

It's like a little brother who keeps convincing himself that one day he'll be bigger and tougher than his older brother well into his 20's

Keep trying little guy! You'll get there someday!

You know why FFVI sucks? Because of a playable cast of fourteen characters, only three of them manage to be women.

Yet they are all better characters than Lightning.

 

[Defective14]

You know why FFVI sucks? Because of a playable cast of fourteen characters, only three of them manage to be women.

Two women and a pre-teen girl. You have a mysterious stranger in Gogo, a mog, and a Sasquatch.

Who knows what gender the imp was!

Imp best party member.

 

[Defective14]

People who rail on about how Cross is a better game than Trigger are just adorable.

It's like a little brother who keeps convincing himself that one day he'll be bigger and tougher than his older brother well into his 20's

Keep trying little guy! You'll get there someday!

We're already there, actually. We were there when Cross came out. I find it cute you have to talk like this when Cross fans come up.

It's cool though. Hey we all like the classics and CT definitely is one. Overrated? Not so much but definitely on that line.

 

[Alex]

While we're at it, FFIV is a better Final Fantasy game than FFVI.

FFIV was the biggest game of my childhood and it has aged like milk compared to literally every other FF game of the era.

 

[Sephzilla]

You know why FFVI sucks? Because of a playable cast of fourteen characters, only three of them manage to be women.

To be fair, two of them are the closest thing the game has to a proper main character. I'd say Terra and Celes are the two most important characters in the game.

 

[L Thammy]

Controversial statement:
Lavos is the most badass pinecone in video games.

 

[Trojita]

I thought you were going to talk about its sequel

Obviously Cross sucks compared to Trigger, but that isn't a knock on Trigger

 

[Cormano]

I thought you were going to talk about its sequel

Yeah, I came here just expecting the word "cross"

What sequel?

This is blasphemy right here.

Chrono Cross is amazing.

We're doing this, right? *crickets* Well fine, I'll do this without you.

Best. Game. Ever. Tier
Final Fantasy VII

I laughed, not even the best Final Fantasy.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

You know why FFVI sucks? Because of a playable cast of fourteen characters, only three of them manage to be women.

And two of them have strong arguments for being the main protagonist of the game. I forgive the sausage party otherwise.

 

[Defective14]

And two of them have strong arguments for being the main protagonist of the game. I forgive the sausage party otherwise.

How dare you insult Umaro. Imma feed him a Green Cherry!

 

[Mr. Nice_Guy]

I like Chrono Trigger AND Final Fantasy VI

I'm so crazy!

He'samadman.gif

I love how divisive Cross is, rarely is a game that split down the middle. Always makes threads like this a blast. I really should play across sometime.

Other posters nailed it though, it's a DBZ villain. Gets smaller as it gets stronger.

 

[kromeo]

You know why FFVI sucks? Because of a playable cast of fourteen characters, only three of them manage to be women.

I think it would be a shame to have your enjoyment of a 1994 snes game affected by that

 

[Gentleman Jack]

How dare you insult Umaro. Imma feed him a Green Cherry!

I can't remember of Umaro was confirmed a dude, but now you got me thinking about
gender neutrality in VI:
Gogo
Phantom Train Ghosts who join you
Kappa
Several of the Moogles

 

[JinjoUnchained]

Objectivley, CT is brilliant and historically important, no doubt; however, it's far from a timeless classic a lot of Trigger fans like to purport it to be. It's very important for the SNES JRPG genre and I'm glad it's adored by many. I just happen to not be one of them.

I don't mean to attack the straw man, but a lot if the criticisms I'm seeing either don't factor in when the game was released, or are attacking it for not being a different type of game. The latter category bugs me, we should evaluate games by how well they accomplish what they set out to do, not what kind of game we wish they were.

So criticizing CT for its' combat and lack of side quests, for example. This was one of the first real time combat RPGs, and the combat is still really fun. It's not incredibly deep with buffs and potions and all that, but it's still satisfying to choose how you balance your party and level up your tandem attacks. It's not trying to be Final Fantasy, CT is doing its' own thing and it executes that vision really well. Same with sub quests and how it has relatively few party members. CT is going for a more focused world and narrative, while accomplishing nonlinearity in its' own way.

It's cool if you don't like the game and doesn't fit your tastes. My issue is when others unfairly criticize it for not being a different game.

 

[Defective14]

I can't remember of Umaro was confirmed a dude, but now you got me thinking about
gender neutrality in VI:
Gogo
Phantom Train Ghosts who join you
Kappa
Several of the Moogles

Lone Wolf is another, I believe.

Not that it's important that Umaro was ever confirmed a male, but I vaguely remember Mog referring to Umaro as a him before?

That's a solid point you bring up. I gotta look back at the game now.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

More importantly, I just found out like this year that this

is supposed to be perceived like this

And isn't a vegetable body with a beaked head on top.

Whoooooooaaaaaa.

 

[PrimeBeef]

This is blasphemy right here.

Chrono Cross is amazing.



I laughed, not even the best Final Fantasy.

This is best part about opinions. I did not like Chrono Cross at all. Thought FFVII was boring outside of the music. I liked Chrono Trigger but don't think it is the GOAT like many do.

 

[Defective14]

I don't mean to attack the straw man, but a lot if the criticisms I'm seeing either don't factor in when the game was released, or are attacking it for not being a different type of game. The latter category bugs me, we should evaluate games by how well they accomplish what they set out to do, not what kind of game we wish they were.

So criticizing CT for its' combat and lack of side quests, for example. This was one of the first real time combat RPGs, and the combat is still really fun. It's not incredibly deep with buffs and potions and all that, but it's still satisfying to choose how you balance your party and level up your tandem attacks. It's not trying to be Final Fantasy, CT is doing its' own thing and it executes that vision really well. Same with sub quests and how it has relatively few party members. CT is going for a more focused world and narrative, while accomplishing nonlinearity in its' own way.

It's cool if you don't like the game and doesn't fit your tastes. My issue is when others unfairly criticize it for not being a different game.

Nah, no worries. I think the game is only like...what? 25 - 30 hours? Not a bad length for a game of the time, especially on SNES.

My issue was that to me, the combat/story wasn't engaging or interesting. I was very close to being bored playing it the entire time. Frog was cool and the double techniques was pretty slick, but other than that it just fell short to me.

 

[Karsticles]

It's a fantastic design. It's an evolved biological organism that has manufactured shell after shell after shell to protect itself. Each stage before the final one is merely a hunk of living armor designed to propagate Lavos, and Lavos is a small and unassuming being that has brought destruction to the planet. It's a wonderful inversion of expectations.

Edit: I saw someone defending Cross and was surprised. Then I saw the name and understood, haha.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Cross is okay. Music, story, battle system, and at least five of the billions of characters are actually interesting.

Trying to 100% that game, and the stupid final boss battle, will drive people insane who aren't ready for it.

 

[antitrop]

Nah, no worries. I think the game is only like...what? 25 - 30 hours? Not a bad length for a game of the time, especially on SNES.

My issue was that to me, the combat/story wasn't engaging or interesting. I was very close to being bored playing it the entire time. Frog was cool and the double techniques was pretty slick, but other than that it just fell short to me.

20-25. With a lot of experience in the genre, some may even do it in 15-20. It's a short game.

 

[jstripes]

FFIV was the biggest game of my childhood and it has aged like milk compared to literally every other FF game of the era.

FFIV's music is still incredible. The boss battle theme is, to this day, the series' definitive battle music in my mind.

 

[DR2K]

Chrono Cross is the better game.

The issue with Chrono Trigger is that people hold it to be this timeless classic...when it's not at all whatsoever.

Edgy. Cross not only aged terribly, but it sucked in its own time. Chrono Trigger is a classic that deserves a remake.

 

[Sephzilla]

Chrono Cross is the anti-FF6 when it comes to characters. FF6 has a deep roster of characters that are all pretty fleshed out and interesting. Chrono Cross has a deep roster of characters, but most of them aren't fleshed out at all and are boring as hell.

 

[Defective14]

Cross is okay. Music, story, battle system, and at least five of the billions of characters are actually interesting.

Trying to 100% that game, and the stupid final boss battle, will drive people insane who aren't ready for it.

There's 45 playable characters,which even I admit is a tad much. 100% that game is pretty insane, no doubt.

 

[Ishida]

Edgy. Cross not only aged terribly, but it sucked in its own time. Chrono Trigger is a classic that deserves a remake.

Ha ha ha ha.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation/chrono-cross

 

[Acerac]

The bigger dude isn't even the real Lavos. The orb on your left is. You have to kill that one to win.

I always thought that was so clever.