I guess what I am asking is would the Doma event have happened without him? Hell without Cyan one of the most memorable events would not have happened. We never would have gotten to suplex a train.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
This may be blasphemy, but there is one problem with Chrono Trigger
- Thread starter Trojita
- Start date
I guess what I am asking is would the Doma event have happened without him? Hell without Cyan one of the most memorable events would not have happened. We never would have gotten to suplex a train.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
And at that point why even bother having the fucking game at all
Defective14
Neo Member
Clearly the most important aspect of the FFVI story.
Kuroi Gogeta
Member
Is the general consensus that lavos is a challenging final boss? he was until I realized that if I focused on
that he was fun, not frustrating and super difficult.
I know it probably seems ridiculous to put spoiler tags for a game that is well over 14 years old, but I know some people are just playing it for the first time. I only completed it a few months ago myself.
magic defense
I know it probably seems ridiculous to put spoiler tags for a game that is well over 14 years old, but I know some people are just playing it for the first time. I only completed it a few months ago myself.
KojiKnight
Member
FF4 is a generic paint-by-numbers RPG. It's a really well done paint-by-numbers RPG... but that's what it is.
Plus, you know, it tried really REALLY hard to sabotage it's dramatic moments
Cid dead? Nope. Yang dead, nuh he was hanging out with faeries. Surely the limp wristed spoony bard's final dramatic moment... nope. The twins? Nah brah, their sacrifice completely undone off screen by a single sentence.
Stone Ocean
Member
Doma was gonna get sieged and poisoned either way. Same for the train.
Cyan at no point moves the plot forward, he "just" enriches it.
KojiKnight
Member
The final form was never meant to be menacing though... The whole point was to make you question everything you knew about Lavos up to that point. You were lead to believe the entire game that Lavos was nothing but a brainless creature that existed solely to suck planets dry, but at the core you see something that's far more human looking. Something that was likely manipulating all of time itself.
Dr Stabbingworth
Member
Triggers only bad part is how boring the combat becomes once you get magic that targets all enemies.
One great part of Final Fantasy VI that people tend to ignore is that you are broken as fuck at the end of the game. Gem Box and Economizer so you can cast Ultima twice per turn for 2 MP total. Offering and Genji Glove so you have two weapons doing four attacks each every turn. The relic system is amazing for that reason.
Manmademan
Member
There are already more than enough examples of how crazy kefka is.
Murdering all of the espers, killing general Leo, betraying gestahl, then literally blowing the world up and lording over it like a mad god just because he can should be sufficient enough to make that point.
Edit: and even if you HAVE to have Doma poisoned, that doesn't mean anything for Cyan since that event happens with or without him. His whole point is that he's upset about being the sole survivor. If he had died along with everyone else offscreen FFVI still ends the same way.
swarley64
Member
I love FFIV to death, but come on...
It absolutely is, and Chrono Cross isn't anywhere near in its league. People will still be able to pick up and play Chrono Trigger and appreciate it in 30 years. I guarantee the same will not be said for Chrono Cross in that time.
BRocknRolla
Member
Great job wholly ignoring the OP folks.
YankeeDonB
Member
VI is still my favorite game of all time. Unless Okami is.
I think the real magic is how it takes you on a character-driven journey with world-breaking consequences, and it does it all with heart and fantastic pacing. So few RPGs manage to really make the journey coherent and engaging, and relevant at both the personal and world level for the whole trip.
Biggest cast in the series, and nearly every single one is interesting, and, remarkably given the fairly slim script, really well developed (even if, as with Shadow, you have to do some digging to find out a little bit more about who they really are). I think the pixel-perfect pixel art, fantastic thematic work by Uematsu, and strong character arcs really sell them.
Much as I loved FF4 when I played it at release, after the first 3 or 4 hours I felt like I was mostly dungeon diving. VI had me feel like I was accompanying friends on an incredible journey the whole way through.
The gameplay is easy, but deep, allowing you to really develop your characters and team the way you want. I found this a very nice addition to characterization. Because you're seldom in a struggle for your life, you can turn Mog into a dragoon as befits his badass nature, and give Celes the Illumina sword and paladin shield and have her fight physically, even if she'd do more damage w/ magic. So many better balanced games sacrifice what deep but easy turn based and ATB systems can add to character personality. I mean, you spend most of your time fighting, so the way the characters fight should say something about who they are!
The travel/event loop was nearly perfect too, I thought. Always going to a new location, often with a new and interesting gimmick to shake things up. Always clear just what is hanging in the balance for the world and characters. Never feel you're just doing a task for the sake of doing a task (well, unless you're farming Brachiosaurs to get everyone to lv. 99 which obviously I did). Unlike IV and V, they really tried to plan the journey out over the world, as opposed to stitching together dungeons and towns with a world map.
Also, with the tragedy half way through, the game could so easily have gone off the rails, but I really don't think it did. The reintroduction of old characters after time and tragedy have passed was awesome, the bittersweet memories of traveling the WOR nearly always on point I thought.
I love the way the game handles secrets too. There are a ton, but they're never that far off the beaten path. You just need to slow down and dig a little deeper to find most of them, and they're often really rewarding, either with super weapons/armor/relics/espers or great character moments.
Well, I could go on and on. I just think it's one of the most coherent and confident and well executed big journey games ever made.
NeonZ
Member
The idea that CT isn't a timeless classic will always be weird to me. I only played it by the time the Game Cube was out, so if it were good only due to its historical importance I'd never have enjoyed it.
In a way, it's a pretty Toriyama concept - after two big forms we get a small and unimposing final form. Although I guess in his own sketches it could look more menacing compared to that sprite which has pretty goofy movements on top of the unimposing design. Although maybe he sketched the movements too?
In a way, it's a pretty Toriyama concept - after two big forms we get a small and unimposing final form. Although I guess in his own sketches it could look more menacing compared to that sprite which has pretty goofy movements on top of the unimposing design. Although maybe he sketched the movements too?
Defective14
Neo Member
Chrono Cross isn't near it's league because Chrono Trigger's league is bronze. But hey why let the truth ruin your agenda. Trigger is okay, but Cross outclasses it in every way.
Gotta love the canonical coward Crono!
XANDER CAGE
Member
Hey so did none of you actually read the OP or what
Cyan is responsible for the poisoning of Doma and Phantom Train scenes and has some really cool moments in the World of Ruin, you guys must be smoking something if you think he's a disposable party member. Just because he isn't vital to the plot doesn't mean he doesn't add to the game's quality. When I think of disposable party members, I think of Penello.
As for Lavos, I always liked his previous 2 forms better. The shell design in particular is just very iconic. Second-to-last form has the better Final Boss theme and still looks really menacing. The last form works for what it was going for, but I never cared much for it.
Sometimes Kimari if I manage to remember him.
As for Lavos, I always liked his previous 2 forms better. The shell design in particular is just very iconic. Second-to-last form has the better Final Boss theme and still looks really menacing. The last form works for what it was going for, but I never cared much for it.
YankeeDonB
Member
Ha, I just thought everyone had tacitly acknowledged that he was an awkward, pigeon-toed alien who was picked on a lot during alien highschool, so came to Chrono's world and disguised himself as a volcano to puff up his ego. This was before Twitter afterall.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Man. Lotta wanna be edgelords going after sacred cows toay here yup.
OP: its the bishonen line.
OP: its the bishonen line.
brandonh83
Banned
Final boss was neat.
CT is perfect. Including Black Omen.
CT is perfect. Including Black Omen.
Megalosaro
Banned
Didn't someone do an experiment and proved no one read the ops
I once posted a thread which ended with people posting the exact opposite of what I asked for in the OP. I don't think this is as bad.
Funnily enough, that doesn't apply to any of the final bosses in Dragon Quest that I can think of. They always get bigger and more imposing the further in the fight you are.
Also, Freeza's and Cell's final forms are hella Cooler than Lavos's.
DR2K
Banned
Considering it killed the franchise and all. Not really sure what metacritic validates.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Yes we get it, you love cross and have palpable disdain for everything about the original game, and despite you having more posts in this thread than anyone about how cross is way better than trigger it's other people who have an agenda. Top notch self awareness.
I'd take a coward crono over a cast full of forgettable nobodies.
Square being a hot mess killed the franchise. I remember the last president saying something along the lines of "if people want more Chrono games then they should buy more!" regarding the DS port or something.
I'm still waiting for Chrono Break.
Actually I'm not, let it rest in peace.
TheGreatDirector
Banned
If we are to think of it logically, the only reason Lavos had such a huge form in the first place was so that Lavos could bury itself into Earth's core upon impact. The entire "shell" is there to launch off the children of Lavos into space. I see it as the final form actually being the brain behind the operations, the alien controlling the eldritch spaceship if you will that's doing all the damage.
Defective14
Neo Member
Well...except I don't hate Trigger. I'm very critical of the game but I do not have any disdain for it. Props for trying to be edgy, though. Creative, if nothing else!
Came to post this. It's cool if you don't like the final encounter, I think it made for a neat puzzle while throwing the biggest enemy attacks in the game at you (according to the text lol). Also, the background being a tell into what attack Lavos was about to use was great once I finally figured it out. Finally having the right bit be the true final boss was a great twist, it often felt like a "why won't this little bastard die?" moment only to realize why once you finally killed it.
brandonh83
Banned
Cross is very good but I didn't like playing as Lynx and all the party members made it feel less focused for me but I loved the story, main characters, art and music.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Your entire presence in this thread is edge. You had absolutely no interest in the conversation at hand. You saw "Chrono Trigger" in the thread list and immediately hopped in to let everyone who likes Trigger more than cross know that they are wrong. Your constant snide refrain of "hey guys crono is a coward lol" is testament to this.
Any high ground you think you have in this debate is an absolute farce. It's barely above trolling.
Defective14
Neo Member
Constant references? You mean two to three times I've brought it up? Okay, buddy.
Sorry if I insulted you clear crown jewel that is Chrono Trigger. I gave my opinion on the game and I even spoke about it objectively. You calling me out over that accomplishes...what, exactly? I honestly don't get it, but hey - keep on being edgy and grilling me for criticizing a game that's not as great as people claim it to be.
Points for you being edgy and cool!
Well fine then, I didn't like being played by you either!
The Emperor
Member
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Well that much is obvious. You keep being edgy and cool!
There's not much to discuss about the OP.
Defective14
Neo Member
Okay.
Pilgrimzero
Member
Defective14
Neo Member
Radical Dreamers, technically, is the sequel to Trigger.
Ah ha ha, I knew someone would gif it like this. Perfect.
I have a very difficult time being objective about Chrono Cross.
The music and art for the game are definitely still great.
I didn't like the battle system that much, it definitely needed some more work.
My main problem is, Chrono Trigger is one of my favorite SNES era RPG's.
I loved the characters, the music, the mix of wacky scenarios (Ozzie and co.) and seriousness (Zeal arc).
Very few endings have come close to the feeling I have any time I replay it.
With Chrono Cross, I felt like the main plot of that game took everything I loved about Chrono Trigger and said:
"None of it mattered, you will take our dark and edgy story about what happened and like it."
And I have a hard time forgiving that. =/
The music and art for the game are definitely still great.
I didn't like the battle system that much, it definitely needed some more work.
My main problem is, Chrono Trigger is one of my favorite SNES era RPG's.
I loved the characters, the music, the mix of wacky scenarios (Ozzie and co.) and seriousness (Zeal arc).
Very few endings have come close to the feeling I have any time I replay it.
With Chrono Cross, I felt like the main plot of that game took everything I loved about Chrono Trigger and said:
"None of it mattered, you will take our dark and edgy story about what happened and like it."
And I have a hard time forgiving that. =/
royox
Member
Khalifa Jayy
Banned
Lol. There. You got the quote you wanted so bad.
Stormhammer
Member
the problem is that it's almost too good
Professor Beef
Banned
I may have infamously found FF6 boring, but I can't cosign this because FF4 is legitimately one of the worst games I have ever played. And there's no hyperbole there.